2014 How to diagnose whats going wrong?

[apre]

On season 4 or 5, and have brought Cambridge up to the Championship, but have struggled for couple of seasons now.

Understandably the higher the league, the tougher the competition, but despite improving my squad immensely and tweaking tactics I cant seem to keep consistent and finish above lower mid table.

 

Ive always used a variation on good old 442. Last 2x season I was using a 4-1-3-1-1(and variations thereof) - graphic attached.

Attempting to crowd the midfield a bit more to not allow so many easy goals

The Poacher is a consistent performer, gets top scorer in the league despite playing for a club that is battling relegation!

Main problem is consistently conceding goals, and I always get the same things in the match report 

- Slow to close down

- Wingers were largely ineffective

 

I know there are loads of 'winning' tactics but would be great to understand whats happening here, and how to interpret the match stats etc. to find out where the problems are.

 

Ive made a point of only signing players with high 'decisions' and 'passing' so as to not give the ball away needlessly.

 

Left side winger and full back consistently under perform as well, always rated around 6, Ive tried a few different players in these positions as well

 

Any help appreciated!

[Peely]

It's a tricky one, but Dec's Tactics Guide has some good info on the subject (particularly the sections relating to team instructions).

 

A few things that seem to work for me:

• Don't use attacking mentality against a team with counter attack on.
• Against defensive formations and mentalities, taking a balanced approach is often better than just smashing your attack repeatedly against their defence.
• Pressing and Offside trap can sometimes leave you exposed against teams using long passing.
• The AI is much, much more prone to adjusting it's tactics and instructions mid match now. If the flow of play seems to turn against you, look at their formation, player roles and team instructions and consider making a change to your own. In some matches I've had to tweak things two or three times to keep on top.
• Often it can be as simple as switching from short to direct passing or attacking to balanced mentality.

[Ashez]

Team instructions? Age of team, do you have experience within the squad?

 

 

As for the formation the problems are these in my opinion, the midfield is too open. The DLM isn't technically in that position as by his description he'll be dropping deeper, this leaves a massive gap in your midfield where you can be over run. Also as you mentioned leaking goals you have no true ball winner in there so i'd suggest fitting a BWM within the midfield. 

 

The next problem is you have no one really feeding each other, for example say the center back wins the ball and passes it to the DLM, his only option is to play a somewhat long pass up the field or he could feed the right sided winger which seems to be why he's been performing better than the left sided one. The left sided winger is getting hardly any support as when he has the ball the only player on his side of the pitch is the CM or the striker at the other end of it. 

 

If you wanted to stick to this shape i'd personally change the DLM to a BWM and the CM to a DLM, this should start to combat your leaky defense. Then i'd push the left winger up to the AML position, this way the DLM will have a better angle of feeding him, similar to how you currently have the right side. Next i'd move the APM central, i'd do this because he'd now be in the perfect spot to interlink with the rest of the team. 

[apre]

Indeed, Ive read through Decs guides a few times, and they brought me my early success with lowly Cambridge. Very helpful stuff.

Maybe Im missing something now Im in the big(ish) leagues though.

Team instructions? Age of team, do you have experience within the squad?

 

 

As for the formation the problems are these in my opinion, the midfield is too open. The DLM isn't technically in that position as by his description he'll be dropping deeper, this leaves a massive gap in your midfield where you can be over run. Also as you mentioned leaking goals you have no true ball winner in there so i'd suggest fitting a BWM within the midfield. 

 

The next problem is you have no one really feeding each other, for example say the center back wins the ball and passes it to the DLM, his only option is to play a somewhat long pass up the field or he could feed the right sided winger which seems to be why he's been performing better than the left sided one. The left sided winger is getting hardly any support as when he has the ball the only player on his side of the pitch is the CM or the striker at the other end of it. 

 

If you wanted to stick to this shape i'd personally change the DLM to a BWM and the CM to a DLM, this should start to combat your leaky defense. Then i'd push the left winger up to the AML position, this way the DLM will have a better angle of feeding him, similar to how you currently have the right side. Next i'd move the APM central, i'd do this because he'd now be in the perfect spot to interlink with the rest of the team. 

 

Instructions;

Balanced

Short 

Normal

 

everything else off (pressing never seemed to help)

 

Ive have a good spread of age in the team, few post 30s few mid 20s, only a couple of under 20s (tbh they only play every now and then due to poor form)

 

Good points, and makes perfect sense.

[Ashez]

I think short passing could have been the problem then as none of your players are close together or working together if you get me. For example if the CM wanted to play a short pass he either goes backwards or to the Left winger who has noone to pass to.

[apre]

Yes true. Maybe Direct would be better, although Im bound to give the ball away more.

[Ashez]

Mixed is the best of all worlds

[Scott]

Mixed is always the best choice

[Peely]

Funny, I've never really got along with mixed passing. I normally go short, then switch to direct if I'm struggling to create chances. Perhaps I should give it more of a chance.

[pjclark09]

Ive found myself using mixed passing less often in my tactics. Unless all your players have high mental attributes they will frequently choose the wrong pass. As there is currently no option to control creative freedom in fmh, this is one way of somewhat controlling that in sense.

As far as your tactical question apre i think ashez is on point. The dlm in dm position will drop deeper putting him almost in the defensive line and when he or a cb win the ball the only short passing option is sideways. Also as your issue is conceding changing the player/role to a bwm should help immensely especially when playing a team with an amc. Then changing one of your cm to dlm will drop him back slighly which will create a short and positive passing option. As far as your lw the only short options he has are sideways or backwards when the fb supports. I'm basically repeating ashez but his post is almost identical to my thoughts when i looked over your tactic. The only new idea i can see would be when not facing dominant opposition change both or at least lfb to wb so he will make forward run or overlap lw more often giving lw another positive passing option. Other than that since your problems are on the defensive end maybe look into.signing better cb if the opportunity arises

[apre]

Thanks for the all insight. Tinkering with the tactics in this new season, lets see how we go..

[apre]

Thought I would update on this.

Based on the advice here I made a few changes, see pic.

I also changed to Attacking mentality and Direct passing - changing to short if match was going against me.

Also bought a right winger.

 

After making these changes I got into the playoffs and won promotion to the premiership. 

Thanks for the advice!

 

 

Im now getting hammered in the premiership, to be expected really, dont think my players are up to it!

 

 

[Peely]

Personally, I always go with wing backs over full backs. They just seem to be so much more effective. Congratulations on getting to the EPL, though.

[philosophers stoned]

Could you maybe share screenshots of your best Midfielders(3) who play in the same line up and your best wingers.I figure the trick is in midfield.

[Dec]

A weak team in the Premier League shouldn't have attacking mentality. I would perhaps too bring the APM back and move the WNG on the right forward to make a 41221. An APM will do more defensive work further back and help dominate the midfield. I too would say put wing backs on. Maybe play counter attack too with direct passing and wingers it can be deadly.

[apre]

A weak team in the Premier League shouldn't have attacking mentality. I would perhaps too bring the APM back and move the WNG on the right forward to make a 41221. An APM will do more defensive work further back and help dominate the midfield. I too would say put wing backs on. Maybe play counter attack too with direct passing and wingers it can be deadly.

Taking these changes into account, in the new season Im hovering between 6-8th, halfway through.

Definitely score less goals, but defend far better. I do miss my poacher scoring hat tricks all over the place though!

[pjclark09]

One thing ive wondered as im new to handheld. In the pc version u can prepare 3 different match tactics. Handheld obviously doesn't give u that option so lets say for example when switching to a more def/counter attacking tactic against tougher opponents how much of an adverse effect will this have on team chemestry/tactical understanding? Also i was intrigued by a comment in one of the previous posts about not playing attacking against CA teams. Wouldnt that potentially disrupt chemistry as well? Is it just a matter or weighing which would be better or worse? Same question about passing, pressing, CA, etc. Im used to having a tactic in place for any opponent. With only one does it only affect tactical chemestry if u change shape? If my team is in great form and have to go to madrid for a champions league match and make some tactical tweaks will I regain the same form when i switch back? I guess the long question short is- how severely does changing minor player positions/roles (eg. With a 4-2-3-1 dropping acm to cm position) and team instructions affect the players tactical understand?

[Ehigie]

On Thu Jul 03 2014 at 16:23, apre said:

On season 4 or 5, and have brought Cambridge up to the Championship, but have struggled for couple of seasons now.

Understandably the higher the league, the tougher the competition, but despite improving my squad immensely and tweaking tactics I cant seem to keep consistent and finish above lower mid table.

 

Ive always used a variation on good old 442. Last 2x season I was using a 4-1-3-1-1(and variations thereof) - graphic attached.

Attempting to crowd the midfield a bit more to not allow so many easy goals

The Poacher is a consistent performer, gets top scorer in the league despite playing for a club that is battling relegation!

Main problem is consistently conceding goals, and I always get the same things in the match report 

- Slow to close down

- Wingers were largely ineffective

 

I know there are loads of 'winning' tactics but would be great to understand whats happening here, and how to interpret the match stats etc. to find out where the problems are.

 

Ive made a point of only signing players with high 'decisions' and 'passing' so as to not give the ball away needlessly.

 

Left side winger and full back consistently under perform as well, always rated around 6, Ive tried a few different players in these positions as well

 

Any help appreciated!

increase your team movement, movement helps in their instincts which increases rate of interceptions, and dribbling... Especially for your wingers, that's why they can't last on the ball... Employ more attacking coaches, possibly gold and natural... . You'll notice that the best wingers in fm have two primary mental abilities: movement and decisions... Movement is one major key.. For me i employed 4 attack coaches, it changed my team... Slowly, but it was steady

[broodje kip]

6 hours ago, Ehigie said:

increase your team movement, movement helps in their instincts which increases rate of interceptions, and dribbling... Especially for your wingers, that's why they can't last on the ball... Employ more attacking coaches, possibly gold and natural... . You'll notice that the best wingers in fm have two primary mental abilities: movement and decisions... Movement is one major key.. For me i employed 4 attack coaches, it changed my team... Slowly, but it was steady

Please stop jumping into old threads. The owner of the op may even never would read your comment as it was from 7 years ago.