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2014 Peely’s Great Big Evogen Study


Peely
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Peely’s Great Big Evogen Study
 
Back in the mists of time, when FMH2014 was young, a brave young man called Rafa started an in depth investigation into the murky workings of the new and improved regen system. Sadly, before his work was completed, SI tweaked the system, invalidating Rafa’s work to date and causing him to give up his quest for the truth. More recently Ashez has used JayMarvels’ save editor to show us how to find high quality regens (21093), even when they’re hiding behind a flimsy disguise of changed positions or nationality.
 
SI tweaked the regen system again in update 5.3 and now call the resulting players evogens, having stated that it’s not entirely correct to refer to it as a regen system anymore. Those of you who slavishly follow every post I make (if such deranged souls exist I hope never to meet them :O), or who have PMed me on the subject, will know that, since then I have noticed some peculiar things happening when players retire. Being of an enquiring frame of mind, I felt the need to understand the machinations of the evogen system so, inspired by the past works of Rafa and Ashez and with Jay’s excellent save editor as my scalpel I decided to clumsily dissect it. Below you will find the results of my research and I have to admit that some aspects of my findings were beyond anything I ever expected.
 
Warning – this article will be delving into the hidden stats of a large number of players. All images showing hidden stats will be behind spoiler tags and I will endeavour to keep the text free from any spoilers, but if you’re sensitive about these things, proceed with caution.
 
The Methodology
 
In order to carry out a decent investigation of the 5.3 evogen system I needed more than just a couple of random examples; I needed multiple evogens of multiple players to prod, poke and analyse. To this end I decided on the following approach:
 
  1. I started a career in the Irish league with no other countries loaded. This meant that only a single league would be fully simulated and was simply to cut down the time involved in moving through the season.
  2. I chose four well known players who are more or less guaranteed to retire after the first season and who should be relatively easy to recognise once they evogen. The players in question were Del Pierro, Totti, Zanetti and Giggs: some of the finest and most popular early regens in the game.
  3. I put on the “place on the board” unlockable and holidayed to the end of the first season. In retrospect this stage would probably have been even faster if I had simply started unemployed, but you live and learn.
  4. I took screenshots of each player just before they retired and also took screenshots of their profiles in the Save Editor. This save was then backed up as the starting point for the next step.
  5. I holidayed for several months into the second season, giving all of my chosen player the time required to retire and evogen. I then identified the evogens and took screenshots of their in-game and Save Editor Profiles.
  6. I repeated step 5 four more times, giving me five evogens to compare against the original.
  7. I also have access to two very well advanced saves (Origi and Daddy Issues), allowing me to look at how the evogen system develops many years into a career.
 
The Results – Del Piero, Totti and Zanetti
 
Armed with the data from my test saves I set about analysing the evogens to determine what had changed and what had stayed the same. I hoped that this would help me understand not only how the system worked, but also hone my ability to identify evogens in future. There was also the question of why some good players come back as flops to be answered.
 
But wait a second, where’s Giggs? I had gone into this knowing full well that Giggs was something of an anomaly; this was in fact the thing that piqued my interest in evogens in the first place. Suffice to say, a straight comparison of Giggs and his evogens is far from straightforward, so I will deal with him separately.
First of all, lets look at the old men and their young spawn:
 
Del Piero
 

The Original
 
HoaMcDQ.png
 
gES0QgA.png
 
 
Evogen 1
 
twyo9zI.png
 
tvt4JSy.png
 
 
Evogen 2
 
f7zUN0K.png
 
wS6Xhpq.png
 
 
Evogen 3
 
5nYWDxw.png
 
2hoFjNe.png
 
 
Evogen 4
 
7zxRCxf.png
 
kBiBbwL.png
 
 
Evogen 5
 
A9Uhprq.png
 
jeAEuco.png
 

 
Totti
 

 
The Original
 
DPHzPRr.png
 
HMLWZVF.png
 
 
Evogen 1
 
MoVyHEB.png
 
RPlqz7F.png
 
 
Evogen 2
 
suZOu3P.png
 
ZUu40zH.png
 
 
Evogen 3
 
c7DVdl4.png
 
LkIANFz.png
 
 
Evogen 4
 
rifkAGU.png
 
EEiZTDv.png
 
 
Evogen 5
 
gROtZsY.png
 
Dtvd65C.png
 

 
Zanetti
 

 
The Original
 
BQ7r1z1.png
 
sMJneYy.png
 
 
Evogen 1
 
hDnGsHy.png
 
h6Xknfj.png
 
 
Evogen 2
 
v8vzRMf.png
 
R8HoSyp.png
 
 
Evogen 3
 
4xcQ6eN.png
 
3ts0KCY.png
 
 
Evogen 4
 
Zwkb2nv.png
 
R5ZHUIM.png
 
 
Evogen 5
 
LY8kDqX.png
 
aePYY9J.png
 

 
A pretty tasty looking bunch of evogens, I’m sure you’ll agree, and there are a number of initial conclusions that can be drawn about the evogen system, based on a quick comparison of the in-game profiles:
 
Nationality – Even in the old regen system, there was a small chance of a player changing nationality and there have been some suggestions that this is more likely under the evogen system. However, in none of the 15 cases shown above has this occurred and, while I have seen it happen in the 60ish season that I’ve played of FMH2014, it still appears to be incredibly rare. My guess is that it is no more common than it was in previous versions, but there are some features of the evogen system that could lead to players mistakenly thinking that they have experienced a player that has changed nationality.
 
Second Nationalities – The real Zanetti has Italian as a second nationality, but none of his evogens have retained this. I have seen man evogens with second nationalities, but they appear to be assigned at random, with no reference to the original player.
 
Playing Positions – A major difference between the regen systems of old and the evogen system is that players can now change their playing positions when they re-appear after retirement. The examples above show this happening in several cases, but it should be noted that:
 
• The natural position has not changed in any of these cases.
• In just under 50% of cases, the positions are unchanged
 
I have yet to witness a player’s natural position changing when they pass through the evogen system, but Rafa did show an example in his original study, so it appears to be possible, just very rare.
 
Starting Club – There does not seem to be any particular pattern to the club that the evogen appears at, other than the fact that it is almost always in their country of origin. AC Milan does seem to receive the Itallian regens more often than any other club, but this is likely to be due to the fact that the AC Milan squad at the start of the game is old and many will retire at the end of the first season, leaving spaces to be filled by regens.
 
Potential Ability (PA) – All of the evogens have the same PA as the original player. This is as expected, since past experience with Origi suggests that even the evogens of players with a variable PA have the same PA as their predecessor.
 
 
Statistics
 
In the past, the key to finding a good regen was a combination of their positions and their stats. Now that we can’t rely so much on positions, the importance of the stats has increased when it comes to finding those evogens. Each player’s stats are divided into five categories by SI: Technical, Mental, Physical, Hidden and Personality (which are also hidden from view). I’ll be looking at each of these categories in turn to see what we can learn about the evogen system and how we can best go about hunting for the players that it produces.
 
When looking at the following comparisons it’s important to remember that the original players were very old when they retired and this will have reduced almost all of their stats below what you would consider to be their natural level. It is not surprising to see that in almost all cases, the evogens stats are higher than the player that spawned them. You should take this into account when searching for evogens of players that retired late.
Technical
 
2QWoObE.png
 
Key observations:
  • Most stats show very little variation from one evogen to the other, with the majority falling into a range of just two points.
  • Technique, in particular, appears to be a constant, with all evogens having exactly the same value as their illustrious predecessor. Technique is also one of the very few stats that are not dulled by age. It can, however, improve with training, so if you’re looking for an evogen well after the retirement of a player, bear in mind that the evogen’s technique may have increased.
  • The odd stat out is Heading, which is and always has been, randomly generated when a player is re-born.
Mental
 
dzQ0EU1.png
 
Key observations:
  • Many of the stats are fairly consistent across all evogens, but there appears to be more variation than with the technical stats.
  • Key stats for use in searching for evogens appear to be Creativity and Positioning, which show very little variation.
  • Some stats which would, logically, develop with age and experience (Leadership, Teamwork) tend to be lower than the original players stats, but are fairly random.
Physical
 
EuVH7fS.png
 
Key Observations:
  • All physical stats are entirely random and are useless for evogen hunting.
  • A poor “roll” on the physical stats can make an otherwise excellent evogen more or less useless. A particular problem can be exceptionally low stamina.
Hidden
 
In order to view these you will have to use JayMarvels’ save editior.
 

YGVLM1L.png

 
Key observations:
  • The last five stats seem to be more or less fixed – the evogen will usually have exactly the same values at creation that the original player had and any variation will be very small. It should be noted that long term observation shows that hidden stats can change over a player’s career, so if you’re looking for a player well after the original player retired you should look for a close correlation in hidden stats, rather than an exact match.
  • Work rate is totally random and can, once again, cripple an evogen if you get a bad value. You should note that there is no correlation between work rate and stamina, so it may be impossible to spot a player who’s been walloped with the work rate stick.
  • Important matches seems to be an odd case. It varies quite dramatically, but appears to only have two possible values for each player. This is probably coincidental, but in the cases shown above, the values seem to be either the same as the original player or higher.
  • The fact that injury proneness is not random has some important implications. Del Piero’s evogens are always amazing, but they all inherit his fairly high injury proneness, which can limit their usefulness. Buffon’s evogens are, potentially, the best keepers in the game, but are very injury prone.
Personality
 
These also require you to fire up the save editor if you want to be able to see how your player’s mind works.
 

JbR9zKB.png

 
Key observations:
  • All personality stats appear to be random.
  • Low roles on some stats can make a good evogen significantly less useful. Low professionalism will lead to lots of stories in the press about his lax attitude in training and plenty of complaints if you try to put him on IT; Low temperament will give you  a whiny crybaby; low determination and pressure will affect his ability to perform in matches, particularly when things are going badly, and cope with off-the-pitch issues.
So, what can we learn from all this? (or TLDR)
  • Nationality can change, but it is still very uncommon.
  • Second nationalities are randomly assigned to evogens.
  • Positions will often change, but rarely very much and the original player’s natural position will almost always be retained.
  • Starting club for evogens is random, but they will almost always appear in their home country.
  • The best stats to use when searching for an evogen are technique, creativity, crossing, dribbling, passing, shooting, tackling and positioning.
  • Heading, stamina, pace and strength are useless for evogen hunting.
  • If you have access to the save editor, hidden stats, minus work rate and important matches, will help you to confirm that you’ve found the right player, as will their PA, most of the time…
  • Certain hidden and personality stats can turn a great player into a waste of skin if they get a low value.
  • It is always best to search for an evogen as soon as possible to ensure that their stats have not diverged too much from the original. It will also allow you to pick them up before they get snapped up by someone else.
  • Most evogens appear within three months of a player’s retirement.
  • In rare cases they can take a year or more to appear.
 
That’s the end of the first instalment of my evogen study; hopefully the above information will help you to find those tasty young players, even when they try to hide behind a flimsy disguise of changed positions or even a different nationality.
 
But wait, what about everyone’s favourite Welsh philanderer, Ryan Giggs? Don’t worry, I haven’t forgotten about him, but to study Giggs and his evogens is to open a gigantic can of worms, which will take a whole lot of explaining. In other words, it’s going to take me a bit longer to put my results together, but believe me, you’ll want to see them.
 
In the mean time, I leave you with this very small taster:
 

OMJM4BS.png
Ryan! What have they done to you?

 

Update 1: The Giggs Conundrum
 

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Astounding work Peely. I know you've been talking about this for a while, god only knows how much time and effort this took. Not gonna put the pressure on you by saying I'm looking forward to more...

But can't wait :P

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Amazing Peely, the regen stuff never used to interest me but after speaking to you i find the new system so interesting and i personally can not wait for the next segment but obviously no pressure ;).

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Thank you all for the very kind comments. It ceratinly took a bit of time ot get all this together, but I enjoyed it and your feedback makes it even more worthwhile.

 

I've almost finished writing up the next part, so expect it soonish.

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wow amazing research and write up. im just about to start a career with my home town team in ireland and this info will help loads if i want to buy some cheap regens and sell on to try and have a budget.  Thanks for all the hard work Peely :D

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The Giggs Conundrum

In my previous post, I excluded Giggs from my study of evogens on the basis that something very odd seemed to be happening with him when he retired. It was, in fact, Giggs and his peculiar evogens that first got me interested in picking apart the workings of SI’s new system of resurrecting departed players.

It started as manager of the Welsh side back in my Origi career. Giggs’ evogen had been a stalwart of the side, as you would expect, throughout my period in charge and, when he retired I was looking forward to a new and revitalised midfield magician. Unfortunately, no such marvel appeared, no matter how much I searched or how long I waited. I put it down to a change of nationality and cursed my luck.

In my next career, I found Giggs’ eveogen at the start of the second season and he was decent enough, but strangely lacking in the magical quality that I expected. I eventually sold him for a fairly small sum, as he just couldn’t compete with the rest of my squad. Out of curiosity I fired up the save editor and had a look at him, assuming that he had just drawn the short straw when it came to some vital hidden stats. I was baffled by what I saw:


6SJbXyH.png
The stats look decent enough.

MFMGhh8.jpg
What! That PA can’t be right.

LtOZdnv.png
Comparing hidden stats with the fact that he appeared at exactly the right time with the right playing positions, there’s no doubt he’s Giggs.



I was utterly bamboozled and started to question whether it was a glitch with the save editor, mis-reporting his PA. I went to the official forums and asked Marc Vaughan if it was possible that an evogen could change PA, even though this ran contrary to everything we thought we knew about regens. His reply didn't reveal very much, but it set me off on a new line of investigation.

 

My initial hypothesis

Based on what I had seen so far and Marc Vaughan’s assurance that Giggs PA didn’t just vanish into the ether, my assumption was that, when Giggs was recreated as an evogen, his PA was either randomised, or swapped with another player who appeared at the same time. In any event, his mighty PA was being passed onto someone, with the obvious target being the freshly created evogen of a lesser player.

This did, however, leave a few questions:

1.    Does this happen every time Giggs or his evogens retire? It struck me that I hadn’t seen a decent Giggs evogen since the 5.3 update.
2.    Presumably this isn’t restricted to Giggs, but most notable players still seem to regenerate normally. Just how common is this?
3.    Just where does that juicy Giggs PA end up?

 

My methodology

As with the other players analysed in my first post, I would be creating a save just before Giggs retired and then holidaying forward a few months and then comparing the two saves. While I would be comparing in-game profiles and hidden stats for the Giggs evogens, as per Del Piero and co. I would also be comparing the list of players with Giggs PA, both before and after his retirement, to spot the luck recipient of his super powers.


The data

Firstly, lets look at the man himself and his evogens:



The Original

w1cL9m8.png

LtOZdnv.png


Evogen 1

After more than a season, he hadn’t shown up.


Evogen 2

OMJM4BS.png

gBwZjj5.png


Evogen 3

aTPIS36.png

0DKJsyK.png


Evogen 4

dt7OZXK.png

IfswUTc.png


Evogen 5

p7p8F3e.png

VlzOSMT.png



Now some of those could fool you into thinking they were proper regens, but the PAs are drastically lower than the original in all cases. So where did all that potential go?

Here are all players with the same PA as Giggs before he retired:


Z5GbLJW.png
All readily identifiable except for Fernandez, who is the evogen of Riquelme, who retired in January.



And here they are several months later:


Azv2ABG.png



So, of four retirements, three have readily identifiable evogens and Giggs is the odd one out. However, there are still the same number of players in the list, so someone must have stepped forward to fill the Welsh Wizard’s shoes. The eagle-eyed among you will have spotted a new face in the list: Ljubomir Fejsa.

My initial though was that this was a rather old evogen who had taken on Giggs PA when he was created, and perhaps passed his much lower PA to Giggs. I looked him up in game and got a bit of a surprise:


Nhn6mCG.png
Evogens don’t have pictures!

odOsdsF.png
In fairness, if I was a follower of Portuguese football or the Serbian national team I wouldn’t have had to check



It appeared that Giggs PA wasn’t going to a new player, it was going to one that was already in the game, Potentially giving them a massive boost :O

By way of comparison, here are Fjesa’s full stats before and after Giggs’ retirement:


lm8q50H.png

sR1I1Ba.png
Benfica just got lucky.



Obviously I had to see if this was happening every time Giggs retired and if there was any pattern in the recipients of his PA.


vkKrtMV.png

KhZ9Mk9.png



x6J5zTp.png

UfGCxOj.png



cfjtVVS.png

aJni8XX.png

In my final save, while Giggs’ depleted evogen appeared, his PA did not, despite waiting over a year and a half.



So it appears that it does happen evey time, with the players differing on each occasion.


My new hypothesis

Very good players from minor footballing nations tend not to evogen in the usual way. Instead they get a random PA and pass their original PA onto another, pre-existing player. The evidence collected so far seems to suggest that the PA may pass to another player from a similarly minor nation (Ireland, Iceland etc.)


Testing the new hypothesis

Firstly I decided to see if it applied to some other notable players from poor quality footballing nations:

Damien Duff


gXJGIag.png

54fozJ9.png



Barry Ferguson


b9q4Vgj.png

pMmZAjz.png



So it doesn’t just seem to be Giggs, or the Welsh that are affected.

On the subject of the Welsh, I had noticed that Gareth Bale hadn’t been re-born properly in both of my long-term saves. This one would be harder to investigate, since Bale doesn’t retire until years into a career, but luckily I had saves at various points throughout my Daddy Issues career , which I could use.

Firstly, we’ll compare Bale to his evogen from Daddy Issues


kSS4PGe.png

9sNmSm0.png
Ouch!



Here are all players with the same PA as Bale at the start of the game:


Ad3PDhy.png
An elite club of three.



And here they are 23 seasons in:


PnRPy1O.png



Two are readily identifiable, but an English defender seems to have stolen Bale’s PA. That shoots down the theory that the PA only goes to poor footballing nations, although after the World Cup, maybe it doesn’t ;P

What I really wanted to see was whether this PA stripping only happened to players from footballing midgets like Wales and Scotland. I had an inkling that it may be more widespread, based on my experiences in game, so decided to study a group of players over a prolonged period to see what happened.

 

Bring on the 185 PA gang:


At the start

WRpQUEy.png


Ten years in

Z1YzA1A.png
All still accounted for


23 years in

ae0XctX.png
Where’s Gerrard? His PA seems to have gone walkabout, too.


25 Years in

d76u1nz.png
Raul’s gone, too, but who are these impostors?



So there you have it. It can happen it anyone in the game.


Conclusions

Based on what we’ve seen I think we can draw the following conclusions:

  • These changes seem to have been introduced with the 5.3 update.
  • Some players have a very high chance to be stripped of their PA on regeneration. These players tend to be from minor footballing nations.
  • An evogen of the player does appear, but with a random and often very low PA.
  • Their PA stays in the game and gets passed to a pre-existing player, not another evogen.
  • There is some evidence to suggest that these players can still regenerate normally, but it seems to be a very low chance (Ashez provided images of a possible post 5.3 update Giggs regen, although with Scottish nationality, and in one of my test saves Barry Ferguson appeared to regenerate properly.
  • While most well known players normally regenerate in the usual way, there is a small chance that they will be stripped of their PA, too.

But why?

Now that we know what happens, the question is, why does it happen? Why was this feature introduced into the game?

I can see the point in occasionally swapping PAs around, it helps make things less predictable and repetitive and makes it slightly more challenging to find those world class players, but why do some players almost always lose their PA and why move the PA to another, existing player rather than giving it to a newly created evogen?

I have no answer for the second point, other than perhaps it’s a technical limitation of the way the game works at present. My theory for the first point is that, realistically, it’s unlikely that Wales will produce another Giggs or Bale any time soon, and SI have decided that, in the interests of realism, these players, and other top players from minor footballing nations, shouldn’t regen normally. If so, it seems like an odd decision, which makes it even harder to lead countries like Wales and Scotland to glory on the world stage.

That’s all I have for now, but in future I intend to have an in depth look at the trickiest evogen players to identify  - the goalkeepers. However, I haven’t even started to research that, so it may be a little while :)

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As i said in private i duno if this is a bug but it is broken imo, it really is a game changer, what i do know though is that this article is a amazing and a real eye opener :D

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I don't understand this witchcraft you've been doing here but I understand the end result (I think). It does seem like some odd decision making in regards to the smaller nations. Something I used to love doing was finding, a couple of OP (example) Irish regens, building the national team around them and aiming for the WC. Interesting work anyway.

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Thanks all, for you support :)

 

I have to say that I'm not a fan of the way things are working at the moment. With my own career 25 or so seasons in, I'm finding the player database a little messed up. A lot of players have very high technique, but are otherwise rubbish: presumably great players who have been PA stripped.

 

It seems to be a chore to find really good players and, presumably, some of those that have inherited a world class PA will have poor technical skills, which may never grow to the point where they can properly replace the players that they've plundered.

 

I can only hope that they refine things a lot in FMH2015, or reveal the whole thing to be a bug.

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I hear you there. The game, past maybe 2023, has really stopped being fun for me. I've recently gone back to playing FMH13 because, even though the regen system is very predictable, it means there will always be world-class talent.

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Thanks AS. When I realised what was going on I was pretty flabbergasted myself. I'd love to know the thinking behind it (if it's not some weird bug), it just seems such an odd approach.

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Just read both articles great work peely very insightful. Found it interesting which stats were constant/random, man that work rate lol. And the stolen pa to existing players, crazy.

Anyone know the soonest and average time for regens to appear?

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I think this is fascinating, though I don't pretend to understand how you're arriving at the conclusions.  (I can't open the save editor in iOS, and so I can't figure out how you're arriving at the PA and CA numbers.) But, and now I'm about to be a heretic, so I'm bracing myself...maybe the problem is the idea of regens itself.  On the longest career I've played - up until 2027, then I got bored - I had regens at various times of Messi, Van Persie, Rooney and Ibrahimovic. I thought I had Iniesta, but he was injured almost permanently. They were all - one way or another - irritating. "Messi", "Ibra" and "Van Persie" all had very low strength which refused to increase. They'd  score plenty of goals, then whine about their training regime, or their contract, or not getting enough match-time. They'd get horrific injuries - spinal, fractured skulls. In the case of the Rooney regen, he asked for increasingly exhorbitant contracts every three months (so, accurate enough :-), got unhappy about being left out, even though he'd only been back from injury for one match, and generally stank out the place.  In the end, it's not a challenge, or something that lets you be resourceful in how you play the game, and it makes the game unenjoyable. Because you're not really playing a game, you're just being hassled by an AI. So, now I don't sign anything with strength under 9, and any other stat in the brown is a red flag.  Works, and it's more satisfying - you just judge what you've bought, and you don't wait for them to turn into Xavi (don't get me started on what I thought was Xavi :-)

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The save editor reads the PA and CA for each player from the save file.

 

Regens have their problems, due to physical stats and personality being random, but you can avoid the worst of it by not signing players with poor physical stats (as you have been doing) and checking their personality in the player profile (avoid lazy, highly strung etc).

 

I have to say, though, that I've had far more problems this year than in previous versions. There have been countless players that have looked great, but turned out shocking, either because of injury proneness or awful personalities. I've had a "hard working" player that wouldn't train a goalie that started agitating for a move to a bigger club within a few months of joining and various other issues. It seems that about one signing every two season, on average, needs to be sold within a season or two because they're rubbish.

 

 

Just read both articles great work peely very insightful. Found it interesting which stats were constant/random, man that work rate lol. And the stolen pa to existing players, crazy.
Anyone know the soonest and average time for regens to appear?

 

I'm not sure on the absolute minimum, but the vast majority appear within three months. I've heard tales of regens appearing more or less instantly, as well. The maximum seems to be more than a year, although I wonder if, sometimes, the game glitches and doesn't replace the player at all.

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thanks Peely - just a question of finding a way of making the save editor work on the iPad then....

 

Yes, sadly I'm not at all sure that it's possible. If you were on Android Jay has an app that would allow you to see the hidden stats, but that doesn't work on iOS.

 

Great work mate! Interesting stuff :)

 

Thanks very much. I just need to find time to do some more research now :)

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After reading this I have to say you've done a great job on this article and the part on the Giggs regens would explain why in one of my saves a random non-regenerated guy from Macclesfield showed up in the 2nd season with a PA of 180. Luckily for me he was Welsh and only cost me 20k :)

 

 

GOpkpx3.png

 

ZAPm4wa.png

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