Chat Don't get too excited for FMM2017

[Dec]

As a warning don't get too excited as Marc Duffy (new director of the game) has said that the game is going to get even better year on year, potentially indicating what would be a third reskin with a few additions in a row for the series.

 

[JohnMU]

Hope they introduce more countries like MLS

[Ashez]

15 minutes ago, JohnMU said:

Hope they introduce more countries like MLS

If they "can't handle" the new point system in the Scottish Cup (posted it's unlikely) I doubt they'll add a league as unique as the MLS, if a new league happens at all. If one does I'll assume Ukraine as it's almost happened before. 

Tbh this is sound advice even without trying to second guess SI as history has shown they have little creativity or vision compared to the fans, just look at coaches. we reached for the stars with amazing ideas, SI gave us three new screens to the menu and a stat boost. No depth, creativity, ease of use or real purpose apart from saying "buy me I'm the new feature."

[DIRECTFX]

4 hours ago, Ashez said:

If they "can't handle" the new point system in the Scottish Cup (posted it's unlikely) I doubt they'll add a league as unique as the MLS, if a new league happens at all. If one does I'll assume Ukraine as it's almost happened before. 

Tbh this is sound advice even without trying to second guess SI as history has shown they have little creativity or vision compared to the fans, just look at coaches. we reached for the stars with amazing ideas, SI gave us three new screens to the menu and a stat boost. No depth, creativity, ease of use or real purpose apart from saying "buy me I'm the new feature."

But if you don't buy it in 17 , then sales will go down and they might discontinue the mobile line and stick with the PC version . They had great game called Eastside Hockey Manager which they screwed the pooch on by stopping the game just when popularity was hi and it always comes down to greed $$$$ . They finally rereleased a version of the Eastside hockey since they realized the mistake and fans were there hope it doesn't happen to FMM .. 

We can't expect any great groundbreaking  updates as they are focused mainly on PC version and mobile needs to take into account the various limitations of tablets/phones as not enough performance or memory to add a huge amount without limiting the game to only be playable with the biggest/most expensive tablets/phones which would limit the customer base. Phones/tablets having ability to add on memory and maybe not as restrictive like Apple is then maybe could be more fan created mods to help add extras to the game 

[Ashez]

If sales go down it's their own fault for releasing a rehashed bug filled product for 2 years and potentialy 3 years in a row with no new features worth talking about. 

Tbh I don't see sales dropping as casual fans will jump all over it which is all they want. They're happy for people to buy it and only have a few saves and move on like most mobile games, as long as they buy it again the year after they lose nothing. It's communities like ours that suffer when the game doesn't offer anything new to keep us playing and addicted all year. 

[rseven]

I really hope SI can provide "PVP" model - player vs player model.

Not complex one.

Export your team in save and to challenge your friends' team in save. 

[Dec]

When we have another version of FMH2014 on the cards and some core features like training and player interaction are unchanged from 2006 then users are naturally going to not buy the game...and question whether their money is actually being invested in the game. When it is one of the top selling iOS games and isn't improving you have to wonder if our sales would do anything.

[Ashez]

Let's not forget we're talking about a mobile game that doesn't have online play due to it failing on the bloody PSP. That really, really says a lot in my book. 

[Fish18ish]

I hope they can be bothered to add the whole u21's in the Johnston's Paint Trophy thing. If they do, they could get really advanced and implement a more serious take on reserve teams although I very much doubt this will happen. But if they cant be bothered to represent these new changes in game to some extent, that will say a lot about how much SI care for fmm.

[Ashez]

1 hour ago, Fish18ish said:

I hope they can be bothered to add the whole u21's in the Johnston's Paint Trophy thing. If they do, they could get really advanced and implement a more serious take on reserve teams although I very much doubt this will happen. But if they cant be bothered to represent these new changes in game to some extent, that will say a lot about how much SI care for fmm.

Alari talks about it here. 

http://vibe.community/forums/topic/37926-new-cup-formats-fmm-2017/#

[Fish18ish]

Thanks for linking that, looks like we'll just be getting teams of greyed out players, but if it could atleast include real players in the player's team's reserve/U21 side that would be something.

[Dec]

FM2017 and FMT2017 releasing on 4th November. No news for a fews on FMM2017 proving the company really don't care about the game that much and are making it an afterthought. Again, don't get excited for what is likely to be another poor release with bugs not fixed for ages and very few features that are wanted/make a difference.

[Alari]

4 minutes ago, Dec said:

FM2017 and FMT2017 releasing on 4th November. No news for a fews on FMM2017 proving the company really don't care about the game that much and are making it an afterthought. Again, don't get excited for what is likely to be another poor release with bugs not fixed for ages and very few features that are wanted/make a difference.

As you know very well the game is an entirely separate game with separate personnel working on it. The only thing that has been announced for FM so far is release date, and you know we can't generally offer these in advance due to store approval times.

[Dec]

1 minute ago, Alari said:

As you know very well the game is an entirely separate game with separate personnel working on it. The only thing that has been announced for FM so far is release date, and you know we can't generally offer these in advance due to store approval times.

Yes but surely under one umbrella something can be given for all as FMT has been announced and that is seperate too. At least an image and a coming soon would be better.

There is a lot wrong with the game's development and the marketing isn't the worst but this is really the icing on the cake when it is pushed to the side like this given FMT that isn't doing well (no community and struggling to get anywhere near the iOS top charts like FMM) is given an advantage.

Fair enough if you are happy with everything related to the game, each to their own, however take a look at how dead it is here and what everyone has said. 2017 is their last chance if they give it that - many haven't, and to have a new director who promises the game will get more of a focus and improve dramatically then to immediately have not even the logo on the release of the other two games is ridiculous. Even EHM gets more exposure, more features and better updates.

[Alari]

Surely mentioning FMM as a footnote on the FM announcement would differentiate it to a lesser extent? I'm sure the marketing guys have something interesting up their sleeve - and it's not something those of us directly making the game get involved with.

[Dec]

7 minutes ago, Alari said:

Surely mentioning FMM as a footnote on the FM announcement would differentiate it to a lesser extent? I'm sure the marketing guys have something interesting up their sleeve - and it's not something those of us directly making the game get involved with.

Of course but even an image would have been great. For years it has been an after thought now or seemed that way. Announcements at the last second and nothing in the major announcement. Even saying coming in a few weeks seems like a bit like there isn't much care for us fans compared to the others.

 

Also the development of the game hasn't been brilliant. Lack of features - training and player interaction the same since 2006! As well as bugs upon release then being denied for months and things not being fixed for 11 months until the next version. I know the team is limited and you all try your best but the game is a big one now and compared to similar we have seen a stagnation and in some ways a regression. The game has let so many people go and failed to capture new people in the community due to the lack of progress and clarity within what is wanted for the game. Until this year things were tacked onto the end with a different UI and this year the editor wasn't updated for staff . I could moan about how underdeveloped and short sighted they are for the signature feature but just look around here at that. This isn't one person's opinion. Please don't see this as a moan for moan's sake. This is frustration from a passionate fan who has played the game for over 10 years and has put a lot of spare time into the game and is worried about it.

[Dec]

I suppose the Stores preventing dates are just FMM not FMT then @Alari?

 

[Alari]

5 minutes ago, Dec said:

I suppose the Stores preventing dates are just FMM not FMT then @Alari?

 

As FMT and FM PC share code they will likely have a hard deadline for submission that gives quite a time buffer. We don't share any game side code with them so our scheduling works rather differently. Having said this approval processes are getting shorter at present so there could be a pleasant surprise at some point, who knows?

[Ashez]

I love FMM as a series, I've dedicated loads to this community and I love it with a passion. It's no secret I haven't liked FMM as much of late but I'm at the point where I just don't care anymore.

It's the hope that kills you and after years of hoping you guys could get it right I've lost faith. If people as invested as Dec and myself can lose faith you must have issues. Every year I find myself saying just wait until November, this will be the year they get it right but once again we've been shown to be the little brother. The games months away and all we know is things we won't be getting and that we're undervalued in the big picture. 

What SI don't understand is to us FMM is the big picture and it has so much untapped potential yet it always feels like it's being held back. 

The main issue however is we had this same conversation last year and likely the year before. All we wanted was to be shown some value, to not be the little brother as such anymore but once again we're pushed aside. 

[Dec]

1 minute ago, Alari said:

As FMT and FM PC share code they will likely have a hard deadline for submission that gives quite a time buffer. We don't share any game side code with them so our scheduling works rather differently. Having said this approval processes are getting shorter at present so there could be a pleasant surprise at some point, who knows?

But you said the store prevents you setting a hard date. This isn't true as FMT has one.

 

Like features a couple of years ago were not allowed to be announced in advance, then they did. Same happened with the stamina bug and probably the 4411 issue not being fixed until 2017 now due to "too many knock on effects".

[Alari]

8 minutes ago, Dec said:

But you said the store prevents you setting a hard date. This isn't true as FMT has one.

Historically, if wanted to set a hard date we would have to lock everything down extremely early - less development time so more issues and fewer additions to the game. FMT has the advantage of sharing gameplay code with PC - which as you know has a shedload more people working on it.

As I mentioned the store approval processes are gradually getting more streamlined so there may be opportunities to approach this in a different way, we'll see!

Edited August 17, 2016 by Alari

[Dec]

Just now, Alari said:

If we wanted to set a hard date we would have to lock everything down extremely early - less development time so more issues and fewer additions to the game. FMT has the advantage of sharing gameplay code with PC - which as you know has a shedload more people working on it.

Not debating that at all but there is a year to work on it. The game isn't being supported properly which I said in my long post and this has all these knock on effects. The fact we didn't even get a logo shows how pushed aside the game and community is. The game has had a serious lack of progress and a lot in the community are concerned or leaving. We are trying to show that the game should be taken as seriously as FMT and needs progress soon. I feel FMM17 will be much of the same (hence the warning to wait a few years which is not going to happen) and with functionality still untouched from 2006, as well as a lack of features from the community it is very hard to see positives.

[Alari]

The game is worked on all year, and some features actually take multiple years of work, such as the EME. We'd love to have loads more developers and have them all putting in new features, but can't get away from the fact that of the purchase price, a big % is swallowed up by the app stores and a further big % by licensing and other stuff outside of the core functionality of the game. Additionally, just keeping the game running given the platform changes from year to year takes a lot of maintenance!

We do have a lot of plans and they will filter through to the game as and when it's possible.

Edit: As well, there are a lot of different ways in which people play the game, only some of which are represented here. We have to account for somebody who plays 15 minute sessions every day on the train just as much as people who do four-hour plus stints.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Alari

[Dec]

2 minutes ago, Alari said:

The game is worked on all year, and some features actually take multiple years of work, such as the EME. We'd love to have loads more developers and have them all putting in new features, but can't get away from the fact that of the purchase price, a big % is swallowed up by the app stores and a further big % by licensing and other stuff outside of the core functionality of the game. Additionally, just keeping the game running given the platform changes from year to year takes a lot of maintenance!

We do have a lot of plans and they will filter through to the game as and when it's possible.

The thing is the game is one of the best selling. It is being out developed by many games. The lack of support and a bit of foresight and polish needs to happen else the game is going down a hole. Many are already expecting a reskin, what does this say about the expectations? I remember in 2008 how exciting it was when a new game was released with videos along with FM and these features were significant year on year. Now the game is outdated and has very little to get excited by and when we do it either has bugs or it is insignificant to actually playing the game.

[Alari]

5 minutes ago, Dec said:

I remember in 2008 how exciting it was when a new game was released with videos along with FM and these features were significant year on year. Now the game is outdated and has very little to get excited by and when we do it either has bugs or it is insignificant to actually playing the game.

I don't know if this applies to you or not, but I feel that one of the reasons a lot of people feel like that was that the game was so limited back then, meaning anything new felt like a bigger jump forward than it does now! I remember when I started working on the game you had to use preset tactics on iOS and couldn't even make your own which seems kind of absurd now.

But as mentioned, there are significant plans and the game is not to be slowly abandoned. Some things may appear in steps rather than all at once, if it makes any sense. Saying any more would get me into trouble though.

[Dec]

Just now, Alari said:

I don't know if this applies to you or not, but I feel that one of the reasons a lot of people feel like that was that the game was so limited back then, meaning anything new felt like a bigger jump forward than it does now! I remember when I started working on the game you had to use preset tactics on iOS and couldn't even make your own which seems kind of absurd now.

But as mentioned, there are significant plans and the game is not to be slowly abandoned. Some things may appear in steps rather than all at once, if it makes any sense. Saying any more would get me into trouble though.

Before that on PSP you could set players to do things like run forward - no roles. It was more advanced then. Everything felt like a purpose with additions and even with the EME you have to wonder why it wasn't built like that originally with an intention to expand as devices got more capable. We haven't seen any big steps for years. Even basic things in PSP have been removed like random club picker and displaying by attributes on search. Since iOS and Android barely anything has been introduced that is new or with intent like staff missing in the In Game Editor is basic. Or staff giving more feedback the better they are. It isn't difficult. The fact features are missing that were in 2009 or unchanged from then like training and interaction with players and news. These aren't big additions needed but haven't even had small steps to improve. Look on Facebook, even casual fans are expecting a transfer update. That has to be worrying. Look at the SI community, look at here. Where is the passion that was back then? That isn't our fault. It is the game getting repetitive year on year and turning people away. People expect different now on Mobile and the game isn't living up to expectations to pull new people in. Soon you won't have a community, though given the lack of care in this announcement and the previous years, that isn't an issue for the company. Either the game adapts and quickly to the changing of climate which means heavy investment, care and vision or soon FMM won't be anywhere like FM for passion nor money, Title Challenge threatened but were too small to cope. If something serious came up with vision then I cannot see FMM being much of a long term challenge. The game is living off the brand now.

[billy2shots]

Alarm bells should be ringing at SI Towers when people as dedicated to the game as Dec feel as he does (Ash is just as dedicated but has been outspoken with his issues). Dec has stuck up for FMH/FMM almost singlehanded at times to the annoyance of myself and others. 

The introduction of FMC or FMT whatever it was last year was the straw that broke the camels back for many of us. We knew it would mean less investment (money, time, inclination, ) in FMH but Dec was in a minority that saw possible positives and thought FMH may benefit. His reward was the rebranding of the game which was basically two fingers up at Vibe. I'm not suggesting for one second that we as a community should factor in SI business decisions because it has been clear for a long time that we don't register at all. New customers are a far bigger fish to catch than us idiots who buy the game year on year.  The greater presence of SI staff always seems to coincide with an upcoming release giving a false sense of worth on these boards. 

It doesn't take much to hook us true fans. Hell I played 86 seasons with Roma on CM 03/04, but there is very little to grip us now. My personal best has been 2 seasons of the current game. I hadn't played for months but I had a day off today and foolishly turned the game on (that's why I'm on vibe today). 45 minutes later having been annoyed by bugs that were present on last years game, I turned off and painted my garden fence. I stayed there to watch the paint dry in preference to playing your game again. 

Paying good money to play a reskinned game with all the old faults is shameful. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, don't even attempt to bring new stuff out until historic faults are fixed. Unfortunately money talks and new features pull in the punters. I just hope whoever implemented 'coaches' has now found a new role as tea maker and butty maker.

The FM star has never been as high as it is now so forgive me for ignoring your tales of hardship a few posts above. You have the financial clout to improve this game no end if that was important to you. Why should you though? Why invest money when you can keep things as they are and still generate sales. The crunch will come when finally those sales nose dive by which time FMM will be canned and all the eggs will be in the FMC basket which deep down is probably the ultimate goal. With mobile phones improving year on year they will soon be able to play FMC leaving no need for FMM. 

RIP FMM, in truth you have been dead for quite a while. 

[JustM1kePlays]

I have talked to Marc a few times.... and before you ask no I don't know when the game is coming out as I very much doubt they do yet.  

I understand that the game has to treated separate as even the way it is released is a completely different procedure. However there must be something signed off that you could have announced today like even that the game is coming out or as Dec mentioned the logo. Obviously there is alot of hype around the whole company today. Would have just been nice to be part of it. 

What I think need to be remembered is that some of us in here only place FMM and don't touch FM or FMT.

 

I do have to say the potential features that might hit the game for 2018 and 2019 could be amazing but after 2 re skins this community can't take another one. 

I am by no way meaning to sound like a moaning old git as I do understand you have a small team and limited resources. I feel you do a good job and really love the series and I don't want to lose that. I just feel you could use us more. There are alot of people here. Use us or you could lose us. The game uses bigger FM content creators to help showcase the game yet FMM never gets a mention. There is some absolutely stunning articles on here.

 

I hate having FM and Fifa in the same sentence as I don't feel you can or should compare them however they have thier own social media for Fifa Mobile youtubers or content creators to follow. Would that be an idea?

I am more then willing to help the game from a youtube point of view or in anyway I can. I have been beta testing alot of android game recently and love it.

 

Rant over 

[Fish18ish]

If Champ Man didn't have its current in game purchase system, it would put SI seriously in the sh*t regarding the mobile market. Can't see the point in FMT, pretty sure Mike is the only person on planet earth who's ever played it. 

And nerfing the 4-4-1-1 was pointless, because now there's this damn 4-4-2 which the opposition switch to after 60 mins and no goals after that.

Feels like the 'series progression' means 3 ideas that Gary the caretaker suggested, to be spread over five years. To quote a website's name, 'sortitoutSI'.

[Ashez]

My issue with FMT is it was always intended to force FMM out of the market and that could potentially still be the plan IMO.  It makes pure business sense. we're told FMM is its own thing while getting FMT on tablets is a matter of porting the PC game. Currently phones aren't up to FMT but the time will come when they are, once that time comes what role will FMM have? It's currently the mass market product for all devices but when they can achieve that with FMT in say 5 years or whatever what's FMM's niche then? 

Why would Sega/SI want to push out its own beast in FMM just for simpler gameplay? To us fans it's a world of difference but to businessmen who care about their bank balance and not gameplay? (Sonic says hi as do our lack of new leagues and features!)

In simple terms they could make FM and FMT with FMT being playable in both markets. It'll be cheaper than making 2.5 games thus resulting in more profit and a lot less costs as I believe FM/FMT is one licence while FMM is it's own. 

FMT bombed last year compared to FMM (and in general) so it must be an easy and cheap porting process for it to even come out this year, many of us didn't expect it to.  As I said back in 2014, FMT will be the death of us and it's no surprise that FMM has stalled massively since then, pre 2015 I actually enjoyed the game lol. 

This is obviously only my opinion but business wise it's makes too much sense. Why do third parties go to Sony/Microsoft and not Nintendo? Because with S/M they can port PC games which is cheap and easy compared to having to basically make a "second version" of the game to work on the WiiU. SI would basically be wasting money creating FMM once FMT is available across devices, sure it's bombing now but once FMM is out the market and FMT is the only option? Feature and content wise it blows FMM out the water, sure it's different gameplay but are things like the EME attempts to push us in that direction? Or to at least get used to it? 

We've seen it happen before with this very series! The mobile games released and so did the PSP games, however the PSP games stalled and weren't updated while the mobile game grew. Then one day the PSP version was gone and we were left with the mobile game. When FMH went back to it's routes with the Vita, did they get FMH? No they got Touch/classic, interesting. Touch/classic was cancelled on the Vita due to I'm assuming poor sales, yet it's still going on tablets?  Even though it didn't sell well?

All a theory, up to you if you think I'm chatting rubbish or not :p.