Chat Don't get too excited for FMM2017

[Fish18ish]

The fact that every team seems to only have one goalkeeper in 2030 needs fixing. Maybe that will be the solitary addition to this year's game, if we're lucky.

[Dar J]

I've played FM mobile for 2 years now and to be honest it's boring now.. it's been only 2 years for me and I already feel like this about the game so I can't imagine how people who have been here since the first release of the game feel about it.

Personally I think last year's game was better in some ways, I miss looking at opposition managers to know their fav formation and going through the opposition squad to predict their starting formation and line up based on the appearances of the players and that's because I already know they would play that bloody 4-4-2 or a 5-3-2 when defending. I've deleted and reinstalled the game lots of time because it makes me angry when I play. We may be asking a lot but at least you should try to fix the bugs the game have because they are a lot

[Thirsk]

It's a sad day when our once passionate community loses faith in the developers. I've played FMH/M since 2012 and while I am one of few who have little qualms about the game over the years, I have to mention my immense disappointment in its last iteration. FMM 16 was more than ever, a blatant and insulting reskin. Coaches and badges were a "boost" to training. New tactical options weren't even new: main attacking/creative outlet was simply a reword of the already available "advanced forward/target man/advanced playmaker", and attacking on the wings/centre was practically a matter of changing from wide to narrow formations. Only keeper distribution was new, as well as the option to loan back new signings but these were laughable features to hardly be excited about, which is why I did not buy FMM 2016 and am still playing 2015.

This doesn't mean I'm giving up on FMM just yet, but it does mean I'm less hopeful of anything special this year. If this year's FMM turns out to be another reskin then like everyone else here, I fear for the future of FMM and this wonderful community. Although our yearly sales surely pale in comparison to new users, one could argue the significance of having us around. Where else in the world wide web has such an abundance of strategy and tips as well as downloadable user creations? This very community is what retains our interest into coming back year after year. Kudos to Dec and others like Ashez for keeping this place going for so long, but everyone can already see just how jaded they've become.

So please SI, if you're reading this, please don't disregard our wishes for something more than as of late. Our words may come across a tad bitter but they are a form of support in our need to offer constructive criticism. After all, negative interest generates less sales, reduces development budgets, before rapidly spiralling into the vicious cycle which is the death of FMM...and then it will truly be a sad day indeed.

[jaymarvels]

I know I have been quiet on these forums lately but I still look around. I've like to think over the years I have played a big part in the FMH/FMM world and in someway like to think I outwardly influenced the IGE as a money making opportunity so I think I am able to share my views.

In my opinion, the whole basis of SI, CM and subsequently FM is all about "the community" back in the CM days the game was a lot more open and there was so much community content, as things progressed in the early FM days these things carried on, SI allowed the community to mod/do extra things with the game, I remember back in the CM days SI used to release the C/C++ header file to allow devs what they need to create 3rd party tools (begged for this to be released for FMM, no response).

Over the years I think SI has lost focus of what made the game so successful - the punters/the community - and focused more on money. In this day and age I understand this, especially when a company like SEGA buys you out and sets profit targets to hit.

But its a circle. You want the money, you want the success you have 2 choices.

1) Cut costs (dev time, dev resource) and release a product

2) Invest in community engagement to retain customers and keep them engaged so that year on year they purchase the game on release month.

Both are valid, but point 2 will allow targets to be met each year, and increasing them.

The fact the FMM has been on sale so often this year shows it has struggled to shift the same number of volume, or at least at the speed, as previous years.

My suggestions:

- More community engagement, not just from PR consultants, or from community managers, but from those who are actually developing the game. This used to happen.

- Becoming more relaxed on community driven projects. I understand the need to protect IP but there are ways and means to achieve it. And this should be across both platforms.

- More forthcoming with information. Accepting and sharing of ideas. You need to listen to customers at the end of the day, and what they want.

- Saying it will get better year on year is just lip service, I am a dev, I know what it means to develop applications, I have worked on multi-million pound projects which are out there in the public domain. Saying it "can only get better" means that this year will be a reskin and next year will be a slight improvement. There needs to be some transparency and honesty, I know SI doesn't owe us anything, or not obliged but its going to a huge step to repair damage to the community.

- A soft release date is better than zero dates at all along with some promotional content. App store propagation, at least for Android, only takes a few hours, so this shouldn't be used as an excuse 

[Dec]

No Turkish or Korean leagues/languages in 2017. All looking very much like another reskin so far.

[RafaTheGafa]

I have played Handheld/Mobile for many many years and every year I anticipate the new arrival and the last few years have been such a massive disappointment, The powers that be don't listen to what the fans actually want on the game because let's be honest if we didn't buy game you guys would make no money I.just feel you should actually come on here and actually interact with members and ask them "What would you like to see", I'm not saying give us everything but at least take the time as we are the customers buying your product.

After losing the license for the Brazil leagues SI HAVE to have a new league as the game released every year just seems like the same game but with a different skin.

But I'm sure as per usual we ain't get anything that's guna be a game changer in the last few years all you have brought is the EME!! Come on SI stop ripping us off and give us something good

[billy2shots]

How about we look at this from a different angle. 

lower the price! 

Suddenly at £3.99 or £4.99 us fans would expect less and would stomach another reskin. 

 

[Fish18ish]

I would happily pay £10 if the game was half decent. A couple of pounds off isn't enough to win most fans around.

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Fish18ish

[billy2shots]

8 hours ago, Fish18ish said:

I would happily pay £10 if the game was half decent. A couple of pounds off isn't enough to win most fans around.

 

 

You miss my point. We would all pay £8-£10 for the game if it was decent. The fact is the last release was an 'update' rather than a new game as 2017 is expected to be. 

Out of two choices

1. Pay full price for another 'update'

or 

2 Pay a reduced price due to minimal changes in the product. 

Many of us would choose number 2. Number 3 would of course be, pay full price for a 'new game that works well'. Realistically we will not be getting that. 

[Fish18ish]

I don't know how much SI would have to charge to make creating a good game financially viable, but even at an increase of as much as £5 pounds, I'm sure 'option number 3' would be very popular.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Fish18ish

[hakuren7]

hi I've played the game since SI was making CM 2007 mobile. tbh i enjoyed the game then more than now even though i couldnt even see the players move as the game only had flashing text. at that time only Real Football Manager was the competitor of CM (RFM was really good for that time as you could actually see the players kicking the ball etc during match) but i still preferred CM. 10 years later, i await FMM 2017. i dont ask for much, even optimization to make the game smoother would be nice. im at a stage where i honestly wouldnt mind if there was no FMM 2017 but you updated the 2016 game fixing all the bugs etc if you cant make any new additions to the game series yet. i grew up with this game so please dont let it die out. i really like the game a lot and i have many good memories over the years, from buying mister dummy in CM 2008, gary neville scoring the winner for me in CM 2007 champions league final, to the OP 4-3-3 formation in CM 2008 and the early FMH editions. Please whoever in SI sees this thread please make some improvements to the game, dont have to do everything just some would be nice alr.

 

PS. i like how realistic the game is btw, my entire Arsenal first team in CM2008 got injured just like irl Arsenal that year.

[Dec]

6 hours ago, hakuren7 said:

hi I've played the game since SI was making CM 2007 mobile. tbh i enjoyed the game then more than now even though i couldnt even see the players move as the game only had flashing text. at that time only Real Football Manager was the competitor of CM (RFM was really good for that time as you could actually see the players kicking the ball etc during match) but i still preferred CM. 10 years later, i await FMM 2017. i dont ask for much, even optimization to make the game smoother would be nice. im at a stage where i honestly wouldnt mind if there was no FMM 2017 but you updated the 2016 game fixing all the bugs etc if you cant make any new additions to the game series yet. i grew up with this game so please dont let it die out. i really like the game a lot and i have many good memories over the years, from buying mister dummy in CM 2008, gary neville scoring the winner for me in CM 2007 champions league final, to the OP 4-3-3 formation in CM 2008 and the early FMH editions. Please whoever in SI sees this thread please make some improvements to the game, dont have to do everything just some would be nice alr.

 

PS. i like how realistic the game is btw, my entire Arsenal first team in CM2008 got injured just like irl Arsenal that year.

SI never made CM 2007, they left the CM brand after 2004.

[Ballistic446]

Personally I see the way this series is going similar to that of fifa. From 2013 through 15 the biggest improvement to the fifa was the addition of training in career mode, something which I see as useless. And being run by the greedmonger which is EA, fifa managed to alienate many long time players with the introduction of in game purchases on a £40 game, ridiculous. However it seems from the marketing and gameplay released so far, Fifa has taken its finger out and brought in some exciting new features.

I understand that many of you won't play fifa but for me it has been a game I've played for years and I'm happy to see it improving after years of squad updates. I've also played the fmh/m series since 2012 and love the game and its simplicity compared to fmc/t and the original pc game but have been disappointed by the lack of enthusiasm for this game and its community, which is the strongest and most active of any I know, from SI and expect to be given more than a different home screen colour and font change especially with new FREE competitors coming out. If I'm paying 6/7 quid for a game I expect it to be worth it. I love this series and the involvement of the community and would hate to see it all disappear thanks to some corporate greed. I have the utmost respect for the developers considering the circumstances they are in, but something needs to change to keep this series and community alive.

On a side note, to Dec and Ashez and other administrators on the site, it might be worth setting up some sort of online petition on the home screen of the site just to show the numbers of people disappointed with the game, should it be another reskin. This would show Sega and SI the effect their lack of investment in the handheld game has on their fanbase and potentially sales. It might not be much but its a way to be heard by companies obsessed with money: Show them numbers.

Edit: Excuse the Fifa rant

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ballistic446

[Dec]

26 minutes ago, Ballistic446 said:

Personally I see the way this series is going similar to that of fifa. From 2013 through 15 the biggest improvement to the fifa was the addition of training in career mode, something which I see as useless. And being run by the greedmonger which is EA, fifa managed to alienate many long time players with the introduction of in game purchases on a £40 game, ridiculous. However it seems from the marketing and gameplay released so far, Fifa has taken its finger out and brought in some exciting new features.

I understand that many of you won't play fifa but for me it has been a game I've played for years and I'm happy to see it improving after years of squad updates. I've also played the fmh/m series since 2012 and love the game and its simplicity compared to fmc/t and the original pc game but have been disappointed by the lack of enthusiasm for this game and its community, which is the strongest and most active of any I know, from SI and expect to be given more than a different home screen colour and font change especially with new FREE competitors coming out. If I'm paying 6/7 quid for a game I expect it to be worth it. I love this series and the involvement of the community and would hate to see it all disappear thanks to some corporate greed. I have the utmost respect for the developers considering the circumstances they are in, but something needs to change to keep this series and community alive.

On a side note, to Dec and Ashez and other administrators on the site, it might be worth setting up some sort of online petition on the home screen of the site just to show the numbers of people disappointed with the game, should it be another reskin. This would show Sega and SI the effect their lack of investment in the handheld game has on their fanbase and potentially sales. It might not be much but its a way to be heard by companies obsessed with money: Show them numbers.

Edit: Excuse the Fifa rant

We recently did a survey relating to this and many other things but I haven't had time yet to make it into a PowerPoint presentation. However I will in the future. Thanks for the idea .

[Fish18ish]

23 hours ago, Ballistic446 said:

I've also played the fmh/m series since 2012 and love the game and its simplicity compared to fmc/t and the original pc game but have been disappointed by the lack of enthusiasm for this game and its community, which is the strongest and most active of any I know, from SI and expect to be given more than a different home screen colour and font change especially with new FREE competitors coming out. If I'm paying 6/7 quid for a game I expect it to be worth it. I love this series and the involvement of the community and would hate to see it all disappear thanks to some corporate greed. I have the utmost respect for the developers considering the circumstances they are in, but something needs to change to keep this series and community alive.

Unfortunately these free games aren't good enough or are too reliant on in game purchases to be any good. So SI doesn't feel enough pressure to stay ahead of the competition, because there isn't any.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Fish18ish

[Prevalence]

The main improvement that I would like to see is a greater connection between the decisions you make as a player and what happens on the pitch. I would be happy to forgo any/ all further features if this were improved. The player has to feel 'powerful' in the sense that they can affect things. 

Figuring out the tactics is the biggest thing for me. I'll give an example (I'm playing with the enhanced engine).

This is my Stoke Team:


I'm usually quite a conservative player, but this time I wanted to attack.

Pressing is enabled to compensate for likely poor defensive cover given the team mentality. 

I noticed that the A.I. 'reacted' to my formation/ instructions in exactly the same way, every time (I'm demonstrating with screenshots from my team):

It was termed a 'Defensive 442', and they reverted to it in every game. 

I think exploiting the flanks is a good idea as my team is quite narrow with Shaq not likely to be doing much defensive covering, but my philosophy was simply 'we'll score more than you'. However, I simply couldn't decide on the effectiveness of my formation vis a vis the AI's counter. It seemed, well, pretty random to be honest:

In the end, I finished 7th -- pretty much meeting the Board's expectations.  You just can't shake the feeling that the results are sometimes a bit contrived, and that takes away from the experience.

[Fish18ish]

Teams always switch to that damn 4-4-2 on the enhanced engine, and normally with players out of position too, it's so frustrating when the opposition switches to it on 60 mins and from then on there are no more highlights. 

Why would a big team completely abandon it's philosophy, and what's the likelihood that every manager would change their team in exactly the same way to counter your tactics. 

Bull?

[Ashez]

The key question to ask is this - Has the 442 bug been fixed for 2017 SI?

[Fish18ish]

11 minutes ago, Ashez said:

The key question to ask is this - Has the 442 bug been fixed for 2017 SI?

You're joking right? Of course it hasn't.

[Lav50]

I played against Man City..they reverted to 442 playing Sterling as left back...surprising thing is he did good until Ayew stripped him of the ball and scored...started to happen a lot now for me..90% of clubs start with 4411 then revert to 442 or 532

[Prevalence]

12 hours ago, Fish18ish said:

Teams always switch to that damn 4-4-2 on the enhanced engine, and normally with players out of position too, it's so frustrating when the opposition switches to it on 60 mins and from then on there are no more highlights. 

Why would a big team completely abandon it's philosophy, and what's the likelihood that every manager would change their team in exactly the same way to counter your tactics. 

Bull?

Yeah. What's frustrating is that the game is supposed to treat the AI and the player the same. When I tinker too much with the tactics in the middle of the game, I tend to start getting beaten. This makes sense as reverting to something massively different to what your team is used to is risky. The AI does worse than this and there is no apparent disadvantage. 
 

12 hours ago, Ashez said:

The key question to ask is this - Has the 442 bug been fixed for 2017 SI?

Given this and other issues, I think this is more integral to the engine than just a 'bug'. I hope that this year we see a lot of work going into to making the engine play better
 

10 hours ago, Lav50 said:

I played against Man City..they reverted to 442 playing Sterling as left back...surprising thing is he did good until Ayew stripped him of the ball and scored...started to happen a lot now for me..90% of clubs start with 4411 then revert to 442 or 532

Sterling as Left Back? WTF?

I think it is difficult for SI to address these issues. After all, The game needs to feel real in terms of scorelines etc, and I don't think it is possible to design a bottom-up simulation that will accomplish this. There has to be some kind of contrivance to make the game enjoyable for the player (No-one really wants 'reality' in 'recreation'). I just think the balance isn't right. Here's looking forward to what they have to offer for FMM 2017.

[Mikee1984]

Not logged in here a while and judging by this it looks like no ones excited for 2017 edition but me haha. Also what's going on these days at least 70% of posts are people moaning about the same stuff over and over. Do a career or something jeez.

[UKFootballScore]

What I dont understand is they keep saying they match engine doesn't know who is who as in which team is AI and which is human but it MUST do as it treats tactic changes differently as in when you make a change it has to process but it doesn't do this for opposition at all so of course it knows

[Jack Joyce]

14 minutes ago, UKFootballScore said:

What I dont understand is they keep saying they match engine doesn't know who is who as in which team is AI and which is human but it MUST do as it treats tactic changes differently as in when you make a change it has to process but it doesn't do this for opposition at all so of course it knows

AI tactic changes are processed as the game is processed. But obviously we can't do this with human players (we can't read your minds yet ) so it has to re-process whenever you change anything. The match engine calculations though are only based on the players and the tactical setups, it doesn't know (or need to know) which team is human or not. 

[UKFootballScore]

So why cant it process after you make the change while the game goes on? So lets say its the 55th minute of the game I'll click tactics and it'll take me straight to my tactics screen while pausing the match and then after I make that change the match engine will process the changes in the background just like when an AI change gets made? Is that not an option? So many times I've wanted to make a change but couldnt be arsed to wait for the processing screen 

[Jack Joyce]

5 minutes ago, UKFootballScore said:

So why cant it process after you make the change while the game goes on? So lets say its the 55th minute of the game I'll click tactics and it'll take me straight to my tactics screen while pausing the match and then after I make that change the match engine will process the changes in the background just like when an AI change gets made? Is that not an option? So many times I've wanted to make a change but couldnt be arsed to wait for the processing screen 

The processing that happens when you change tactics is where it calculates every kick of the ball and every AI tactical change that happens for the rest of the match (after it works this all out, it then works out and plays the highlights from the match). It is done this way is for performance reasons (phones would struggle to do this as the match-viewer is running). I agree that it can be a bit annoying, but as newer and more powerful phones come out this should speed up more and more.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Jack Joyce

[Dec]

2 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

The processing that happens when you change tactics is where it calculates every kick of the ball and every AI tactical change that happens for the rest of the match (after it works this all out, it then works out and plays the highlights from the match). It is done this way is for performance reasons (phones would struggle to do this as the match-viewer is running). I agree that it can be a bit annoying, but as newer and more powerful phones come out this should speed up more and more.

Can you say if the 442 bug is fixed please Jack?

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, Dec said:

Can you say if the 442 bug is fixed please Jack?

I can say that we are looking at it as a high-priority issue. That side of the game is very delicate/complicated so will take time, but rest assured we are working on it. 

[Dec]

1 minute ago, Jack Joyce said:

I can say that we are looking at it as a high-priority issue. That side of the game is very delicate/complicated so will take time, but rest assured we are working on it. 

So you are saying it will be improved at least in 2017. Great news. Thank you.

[UKFootballScore]

Great so that a bug that's been out for over 10 months is still being 'worked on' good stuff

Jack can you confirm anything about the game at all?