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Career How many shots?!?


Muzza2108
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1 hour ago, Fish18ish said:

You shouldn't have to make those tactical changes though, when it's so clear that what you've got is bloody unstoppable! @kts365

It's the nature of the game though. For instance Barcelona just got beat off a team who were 80/1 before the game. If the big teams went undefeated every season then football would be wholly predictable. In this aspect the game has nailed it.

You don't just win all the time by having the best players and using the same tactic. It doesn't happen in real life so why should it happen in game? Making those tactical tweaks during games is the difference between losing that one game you're talking about and achieving the undefeated season you desire. Trust me you aren't "just destined" to lose any given match.

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@kts365

you are missing the point. Predetermined or 'destined' is exactly how the game works. Jack has tried to twist it saying I'm suggesting you are going to lose the game no matter what you do. That is not what I'm saying. 

To be clear, the final time you or the AI make a tactical or player change a calculation is made. From THAT point the result and everything that happens has been predetermined so it doesn't matter how many shots you have on target, if the calculation is that you won't score then you won't score. 

For arguments sake if that final change took place in the 60th minute then the rest of the match has been mapped out from that point.  That is the very definition of predetermined or your fate/destiny has been decided. Predetermined just means something has been decided before it happens, it doesn't mean the game decides before the match has even started, the final calculation might not be until the 85th minute if you or the AI change something then. That still makes 85th-90th minute already decided.

Imagine a Film script, it's already been written and all that's left is for the actors to act out the story. 

Edited by billy2shots
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2 hours ago, billy2shots said:

@kts365

you are missing the point. Predetermined or 'destined' is exactly how the game works. Jack has tried to twist it saying I'm suggesting you are going to lose the game no matter what you do. That is not what I'm saying. 

To be clear, the final time you or the AI make a tactical or player change a calculation is made. From THAT point the result and everything that happens has been predetermined so it doesn't matter how many shots you have on target, if the calculation is that you won't score then you won't score. 

For arguments sake if that final change took place in the 60th minute then the rest of the match has been mapped out from that point.  That is the very definition of predetermined or your fate/destiny has been decided. Predetermined just means something has been decided before it happens, it doesn't mean the game decides before the match has even started, the final calculation might not be until the 85th minute if you or the AI change something then. That still makes 85th-90th minute already decided.

Imagine a Film script, it's already been written and all that's left is for the actors to act out the story. 

Agreed, and I haven't missed the point at all.  Look at who I was replying to. He reckons that the ai decides that he should lose 1 league game every season and there's nothing he can do about it. That's simply not true because, as you state, there are recalculations after every tactical change. He simply believes that his starting team and tactic are good enough to go undefeated for the other 37 games so the 38th is in the bag. My point is that there can always be action taken. What you've actually done is backed my point mate.

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1 minute ago, billy2shots said:

Fair enough, you quoted my 'destined to lose' hence why I presumed your were also disagreeing with what I had said b

I see the confusion. No bother mate

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3 hours ago, billy2shots said:

@kts365

you are missing the point. Predetermined or 'destined' is exactly how the game works. Jack has tried to twist it saying I'm suggesting you are going to lose the game no matter what you do. That is not what I'm saying. 

To be clear, the final time you or the AI make a tactical or player change a calculation is made. From THAT point the result and everything that happens has been predetermined so it doesn't matter how many shots you have on target, if the calculation is that you won't score then you won't score. 

For arguments sake if that final change took place in the 60th minute then the rest of the match has been mapped out from that point.  That is the very definition of predetermined or your fate/destiny has been decided. Predetermined just means something has been decided before it happens, it doesn't mean the game decides before the match has even started, the final calculation might not be until the 85th minute if you or the AI change something then. That still makes 85th-90th minute already decided.

Imagine a Film script, it's already been written and all that's left is for the actors to act out the story. 

You're still misunderstanding how the stats work. The amount of shots you have do matter because every shot you have in the game is calculated. The game doesn't work out a result then makes up the stats, it generates the entire match (and counts all the shots that happens etc.). The stats still give you information on how your team played, they're not irrelevant at all.

However, like in real life, the stats won't tell you everything. There's no point having 42 shots if only 3 of them were CCCs, compared to the other team's 2 CCCs.

If OP can post a couple of pictures of their tactics/roles, then I could suggest a couple of improvements. 

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37 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

You're still misunderstanding how the stats work. The amount of shots you have do matter because every shot you have in the game is calculated. The game doesn't work out a result then makes up the stats, it generates the entire match (and counts all the shots that happens etc.). The stats still give you information on how your team played, they're not irrelevant at all.

However, like in real life, the stats won't tell you everything. There's no point having 42 shots if only 3 of them were CCCs, compared to the other team's 2 CCCs.

If OP can post a couple of pictures of their tactics/roles, then I could suggest a couple of improvements. 

 

I have know idea where you are coming from Jack, you continue to wrongly presume things. Please read my final sentence again, actually I will save you the time of scrolling up. 

'Imagine a Film script, it's already been written and all that's left is for the actors to act out the story. ' The calculations take into account everything and decidedes you are going to have X number of shots on goal which will result in Y number of goals. That action is then showed to you. So calculation first then we see the action 'predetermined '

I can not make my point anymore simple than that, believe me I am trying. 

If the 'final' calculation decides you're going to have 17 further shots on target and score 2 goals then that is 'set in stone' before it actually happens (predetermined at time of final calculation). Just because the action is played out showing you those 17 shots is neither here nor there, the actors are just following the script that was made by the final calculation. 

Lets put it another way. If 'after' the final calculation your team wins a penalty the game has already decided if that penalty will be scored. If there was such thing as an in match save, you could save/ reload as many times as you want, it will always turn out the same way. Obviously if you could adjust the penalty taker then a new calculation would be made and the outcome could change. 

What annoyed me was when you suggested things are not predetermined and they are decided 'kick by kick'. That suggests save/reloading of said penalty would result in different outcomes. it wouldn't , would it?

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1 minute ago, billy2shots said:

What annoyed me was when you suggested things are not predetermined and they are decided 'kick by kick'. That suggests save/reloading of said penalty would result in different outcomes. it wouldn't , would it?

Yes, and it does. If you play the same match over and over with the same exact tactics and line-up then you will get different results. A better analogy to the "match-loading" is to say that if you were 1-0 down at half time and made the same change every time, the results wouldn't always be the same.

I've tried explaining this many times already and am incredibly busy so this will be my last attempt. I'll just state facts in simple terms for everyone: The in-match stats are not made up and do matter; you can use these stats to see flaws in your tactical set-up and react accordingly; no part of the match is decided before kick-off (I know you're not saying this, just making it clear for everyone); the match engine has no way to treat an AI team differently the a human one (there's no such thing as 'ai cheat').

If anyone has any clear examples/saves where they feel like this isn't the case e.g. they play a match and get the same result every single time, or over the course of a full season there's too many underdog victories. Then please do post them on the official forums so we can look at them (feedback in these areas is very helpful since it's very time-consuming and requires a large amount of test data). 

If OP can post their tactics/roles then I might be able to suggest some improvements to their tactics, which may help some people understand flaws in their own tactics and how to react to the match stats.

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1 hour ago, Jack Joyce said:

Yes, and it does. If you play the same match over and over with the same exact tactics and line-up then you will get different results. A better analogy to the "match-loading" is to say that if you were 1-0 down at half time and made the same change every time, the results wouldn't always be the same.

I've tried explaining this many times already and am incredibly busy so this will be my last attempt. I'll just state facts in simple terms for everyone: The in-match stats are not made up and do matter; you can use these stats to see flaws in your tactical set-up and react accordingly; no part of the match is decided before kick-off (I know you're not saying this, just making it clear for everyone); the match engine has no way to treat an AI team differently the a human one (there's no such thing as 'ai cheat').

If anyone has any clear examples/saves where they feel like this isn't the case e.g. they play a match and get the same result every single time, or over the course of a full season there's too many underdog victories. Then please do post them on the official forums so we can look at them (feedback in these areas is very helpful since it's very time-consuming and requires a large amount of test data). 

If OP can post their tactics/roles then I might be able to suggest some improvements to their tactics, which may help some people understand flaws in their own tactics and how to react to the match stats.

Is that last part open to the whole community? Or invite only? Surely the game should be doing that, we can't go crying to the developers everytime a tactic doesn't work because the actual game gives us no help, info, guidance or logic. A 4321 with ISFs doesn't work due to constant long shots, yesterday my ISF broke from deep one on one with keeper yet shot from outside the box lol, I guess Neymar isn't clever enough to get closer or maybe it's his decision making stat? But at what point does the way the roles work clash with the players stats? Surely constantly shooting from distance shouldn't be an issue for players with good decisions?  Or does the role force long shots? The issue is we have no idea, get no in game help yet we are expected to understand the game enough to enjoy and play it. Nice to see my commentary question ignored too, I'll read behind the lines there I think. 

I want to love this game, I want to enjoy it but the issues are overwhelming me. Maybe that's due to my role here and how "deeply" I think about the game compared to other more "casual" players but I'm at breaking point. It has nothing to do with challenge either, just small irritating things across the board, this week I've played 6 odd months on both engines just trying to enjoy it, smashed both saves basically winning every game yet small issues just ruin it for me and suck away the enjoyment. I've stopped following careers here which I love doing because I'm finding my inability to enjoy the game in the same way as others infuriating. I want to so much but I can't. 

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And just to clear I don't need help with my tactics thanks... That was the type of game that happens once a season for me... I posted it just for people to have a look and maybe have a little laugh at it as surely we've all had those matches, it just happens, right?

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