Chat Which is more important - Stats or CA/PA?

[Scratch]

If you go back a few years, a player's CA/PA seemed to be far more important than their stats. You could get a player with green stats across the board, but a low CA, and they just wouldn't perform on the pitch. At the same time you could get someone with low stats, but a high CA, and they'd be banging in goals, getting a high match rating, etc.

You were generally better off disregarding stats altogether and just going on CA (or star ratings which are aren't always an accurate representation of CA, but were more useful than stats).

Has this changed in recent years? It feels more balanced now, although I'd still choose a player based on their star rating than their stats. What do you think?

[AeroLAD]

Yeah it has definitely changed. Strange thing is that their value still remains low (even if they're performing at an average level of high 7s). But yeah I give contracts to gray players sometimes and they perform really well for me (ofc I give contracts to the ones with good stats for the roles I would like them to play in. 

[BatiGoal]

I'm a total sucker for pretty greens. I'm the guy who picks the beautiful psycho b#tch at the prom over anyone else

I love seeing the high attr. eventho as you say they don't always produce the good. I like finding out and testing them out myself tho.

Edited November 23, 2016 by BatiGoal

[Scratch]

@AeroLAD Interesting - I've never done that (give contract to greyed out players). I should give that a try sometime! Now, if only we could buy the greyed out players at the clubs in Brazil and Argentina...

@BatiGoal Hehe, been there done that too! But the last few games I've gone down the editor path to work out the best players and I'm going to resist that this time around as it spoils the game. I'm enjoying trying out players and working out who's actually good and who's not. I've signed a couple of gems and a couple that seem like they are going to flop...

 

[Dec]

CA is a good way of telling who is good overall and get a general gist but attributes are important too as you cannot compare a BWM and a APM even though they are the same position and have the same CA range. Unless the players are near identical in attributes then CA plays a part in making attributes. Otherwise a lower CA player with better attributes for the role anyday

[Meow]

I've made it such that I'm banned from looking at CA/PA, so I go based on stats. However I have peeked at their CA/PA when I decide to allow them to leave the club. I've kicked out players with PA as high as 188 or 193 because they weren't performing up to standard. I've also had many who turned out to only have 140/150 PA that I've come to love, in particular a Japanese left back I had on FMM 16 (I eventually found out it was Yuto Nagatomo's regen), he had 20 pace 20 stamina 20 technique 18 crossing. Hits over 20 assists in his peak and regularly had 18 assists a season. Bought for 130k and sold at 31 for 5.25m. 

Could I perhaps put across the idea that the developers have constantly said the EME "calculates every kick", so maybe EME draws from the stats itself rather than the CA/PA? Sure stats can be somewhat dependent on the CA/PA, but ultimately I would think stats are more important. Seeing 20 pace 20 stamina players, they are ridiculously overpowered enough to convince me stats trump CA/PA.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Meow

[Scratch]

@Dec Thanks. I guess I've been wrong for a long time then!

I remember reading something that said "forget the attributes, the match engine doesn't even use them, just pick based on CA" a while back - I guess it could have been as far back as 2011 or even earlier. The post had loads of evidence and other posters were agreeing. I remember being shocked because I thought it should work exactly as you describe it. But I tried it and it seemed to work for me, so I've been running with that idea.

I guess in practice, most players with high CA will have decent attributes, which could explain why it was working for me. Or maybe the formations I was using would have meant the under 13s could have won.

Of course the match engine(s) have come a long way, so even if there had been an element of truth to that at some point, I guess it wouldn't be true any more - which is why I posted the question!

Anyway, thank for the info and I guess I'm going to have a fresh look at how I'm doing things...

[Scratch]

@Meow Thanks. My view that CA was more important than attributes was definitely formed before the extended match engine. I guess it makes sense that works from the attributes.

Yeah, I've banned myself from finding out CA/PA and it's a lot more fun. Although up until tonight, I've been using the star ratings as a sort of fog of war representation of CA/PA, obviously based on the scout's abilities and being relative to your current players / ranking, etc. I'll throw that approach away and try focusing on stats.

[BatiGoal]

I was also under the impression that higher PAs cause a slower decrease in attributes when players are used ineffectively and sharper increase when used effectively due to their sheer talent.

Lower PAs the exact opposite sharper decrease vs slower increase. No proof tho just seemed to make sense to me.

[Meow]

@BatiGoal Well, I always thought a players effectiveness was based on their stats and mental. Before footedness this year, I've already noticed Brandt played better as an IF on the left rather than winger. I feel like their innate habits were already somewhat built into the game, just invisible to us all this while. The PA never had anything to do with it.

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Meow

[BatiGoal]

27 minutes ago, Meow said:

@BatiGoal Well, I always thought a players effectiveness was based on their stats and mental. Before footedness this year, I've already noticed Brandt played better as an IF on the left rather than winger. I feel like their innate habits were already somewhat built into the game, just invisible to us all this while. The PA never had anything to do with it.

I was actually refering to their personal development and not their effectiveness within the team.

I meant FBs being used as WBs for example or BWM as APM, strikers as wingers or vice versa. I think PAs determine how quick such players (who are or aren't assigned -preferred- proper positions/roles based on their personal stats) in/decrease their attributes. And then yes the higher their greens the more effective they become.

Just from my sensical point of view. Never bothered to put it to the test.

Edited November 23, 2016 by BatiGoal

[samhardy]

I guess I'm in the minority then, always ignore the CA and just focus on the stats! It's impossible go ignore 5* potential though

[BatiGoal]

13 minutes ago, samhardy said:

I guess I'm in the minority then, always ignore the CA and just focus on the stats! It's impossible go ignore 5* potential though

Same here. I just think PAs "make or break" green stats if you will, but I too never bother finding out beforehand. I do judge books by their cover in this case

[veerus]

PA is long term player potential relative to your team meaning a 5* player is likely one of the best on your team in the view of your assistant and/or scouts. 

CA is how close they are to that estimated PA - this is why many of your younger players have low CA relative to the rest of the team. 

Stats are good for short term player decisions while CA/PA is for long term. If you have two players with identical stats but one is 3* PA and the other is 5*, that means the 3* has peaked while the 5* will likely improve and increase stats in the future. 

[sharaziuk]

I tend to buy players with high PA then by stats... Limits my buying of wonderkids

[Mollers01]

I never look at PA/CA - I buy by stats alone. A friend once told me that Technique and Teamwork are the two most important stats - after that, you only need a couple of strong stats per position (e.g. Tackling and Positioning for a CB) and you'll have a strong player. I don't know how true that is but I do tend to buy players with high teamwork and technique.

[Ashez]

Stats as in my opinion you shouldn't know the CA/PA of players. 

[billy2shots]

10 hours ago, Ashez said:

Stats as in my opinion you shouldn't know the CA/PA of players. 

 

This if people are talking about the 'real' ca/pa. If people are talking about coach or scout reports then stats are even more important as those reports can be very inaccurate. 

I go with current stats - ( fairly obvious)

Personal history - Historic Ave rating, goals, assists as It gives a good guide to how consistent someone is. 

Player rankings- I find these more accurate than scout reports. If a player is near the top of the youth page he usually turns out good.