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BatiGoal

Chat Score 20 goals in a game

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6 minutes ago, veerus said:

@Ashez I think I enjoy the EME because I don't always take the highlights literally.  The simulation overall seems pretty solid so I chalk up most of the oddities to the graphics/commentary engine.  There are plenty oddities to be found.  Some off the top of my head:

  • Nearly all shots&goals seem to happen from outside the box, even when it's a 1v1 situation (in 1v1, I usually assume the shot probably simulated closer to the goal but graphically, it seems to happen outside the box).  Also, until analytics started to gain traction about 3-4 years ago (which is around when the engine first was released), seeing a majority shots from the outside was actually not that unusual.
  • Defenders usually being the ones knocking out headers for corners (especially while defending corners).  In a real match, defenders head it the other way just as often as out for a corner but highlights rarely show this.  Since stats don't immediately update like they do in the OME so it's hard to verify exactly what's happening, I just assume that the simulation got a corner and the commentary/highlight defaults a certain way.
  • Failing to break down a defense while dominating possession/shots or, to go the other way, the AI scoring from a single shot in a one-sided match.  This one has plenty of real life examples and many are recent.  Pick just about any home draw by Man United this season against a bottom half half for the former while Crystal Palace just won against Watford on an own goal without registering a single shot on target for the latter.  If this happened in the FMM, the player would be screaming bloody murder.  Now, this seems to happen WAY more often in FMM than in real life and that is, of course, due to the programming of the engine and how the roles interact with each other.  Hopefully the engine will continue to become more nuanced as they keep developing it.  I don't even think I need to see more roles - they seem to cover most things I would want my players to do.  Personally, I would be much happier with some more team-wide instructions.  For example, I think if they added some sort of a separate tactical setting for shooting "appetite" (ie. try to shoot if inside the box only, shoot from anywhere, only certain people try to shoot) that would go a long way toward smoothing out the shooting curves across different roles.  Or giving more freedom with positioning of players on the pitch.

And, @Mikee1984, why you always gotta be so confrontational?  Take that anger over to reddit or something.

I don't get you!! why everytime I disagree with ash you say some sort of comment that I'm having a go or some bullshit. I'm expressing an opinion which he disagrees with am I not allowed to do the same. Besides he replied to my opinion, is he having a go at me then yeah is that the case. Ash is allowed to bash everything he wants yet whenever I disagree you pop up with your nonsense towards me. 

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5 minutes ago, Mikee1984 said:

I don't get you!! why everytime I disagree with ash you say some sort of comment that I'm having a go or some bullshit. I'm expressing an opinion which he disagrees with am I not allowed to do the same. Besides he replied to my opinion, is he having a go at me then yeah is that the case. Ash is allowed to bash everything he wants yet whenever I disagree you pop up with your nonsense towards me. 

Not trying to defend him, more just trying to understand why your replies are so aggressive when we're just having an amicable discussion about the merits of each engine.  If that was not your intent here, I apologize.

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I hear both sides tbh. Yes, the OME allows big scores and players to score big numbers in 1 game too often. But look at both engines.. How many Messi's and Ronaldo's can we create? Pele's.. I got Villalibre to score 1000 goals.. Armstrong 1000 goals.. On what planet will that happen? Not Earth surely. What about seeing all those small teams conquering the world. Just have a look at the careers in here. My Benfica career winning CL 10 or so times in 13 seasons.. Sevilla no different.. West Ham winning all available Cups.. Pescara winning Seria A multiple times.. Gent owning Europe.. Torino.. TOP Oss.. El Ejido (at some point :) .. and lots lots more. Not once but everywhere.. If we're going to analyze the game in detail and want to touch on the 'realism' subject don't forget to take these into account too.

The game is nowhere near reality, period. But I take it for what it is and I enjoy playing the challenges with you guys and read your careers etc. It makes my world a little more enjoyable so I just go with this fantasy of a football managing game that rapes reality more often than not.

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20 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Armstrong 1000 goals.. On what planet will that happen? Not Earth surely.

Steady on! I still have hopes he'll do that in real life! :D 

Nah, what you say is spot on...

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1 hour ago, veerus said:

@Ashez I think I enjoy the EME because I don't always take the highlights literally.  The simulation overall seems pretty solid so I chalk up most of the oddities to the graphics/commentary engine.  There are plenty oddities to be found.  Some off the top of my head:

  • Nearly all shots&goals seem to happen from outside the box, even when it's a 1v1 situation (in 1v1, I usually assume the shot probably simulated closer to the goal but graphically, it seems to happen outside the box).  Also, until analytics started to gain traction about 3-4 years ago (which is around when the engine first was released), seeing a majority shots from the outside was actually not that unusual.
  • Defenders usually being the ones knocking out headers for corners (especially while defending corners).  In a real match, defenders head it the other way just as often as out for a corner but highlights rarely show this.  Since stats don't immediately update like they do in the OME so it's hard to verify exactly what's happening, I just assume that the simulation got a corner and the commentary/highlight defaults a certain way.
  • Failing to break down a defense while dominating possession/shots or, to go the other way, the AI scoring from a single shot in a one-sided match.  This one has plenty of real life examples and many are recent.  Pick just about any home draw by Man United this season against a bottom half half for the former while Crystal Palace just won against Watford on an own goal without registering a single shot on target for the latter.  If this happened in the FMM, the player would be screaming bloody murder.  Now, this seems to happen WAY more often in FMM than in real life and that is, of course, due to the programming of the engine and how the roles interact with each other.  Hopefully the engine will continue to become more nuanced as they keep developing it.  I don't even think I need to see more roles - they seem to cover most things I would want my players to do.  Personally, I would be much happier with some more team-wide instructions.  For example, I think if they added some sort of a separate tactical setting for shooting "appetite" (ie. try to shoot if inside the box only, shoot from anywhere, only certain people try to shoot) that would go a long way toward smoothing out the shooting curves across different roles.  Or giving more freedom with positioning of players on the pitch.

And, @Mikee1984, why you always gotta be so confrontational?  Take that anger over to reddit or something.

Tbh I never read the commentary, I wouldn't watch the highlights if there was an advantage to not watching them.  

Regarding your comments on the visuals if they don't line up with the stats or what's actually happening what purpose do they have? Let's not forget the EME was sold as an engine we watch and react to, if those aren't spot on the game falls apart. They want us to watch the visuals so any oddities in them beats the purpose of the engine, that should be the only thing we can trust. Tbf I go straight to the stats page and the images coming up can be entertaining but usually end up frustrating or just getting in the way as I'm too lazy to pause it :P

Corners/set pieces are a annoying in the game and the cheapest goal you can score or concede. How do we have no set piece control still? How is our box set up based on our formation? Why do we have to watch six odd corners get flung in and cleared? The PSP had these options years ago! A fundamental part of football and it's importance to us in game is next to nothing. 

Defensive teams and hammerings without wins should happen, but as you said they do happen a tad often. Tbf this issue hasn't bothered me as much as it has in recent years and the EME handles it much better than the OME for example. However all this could link into the long shot issue, how players don't dribble, how roles you'd want in this situation don't work and how cheap the AI's goals appear. In this situation the AI usually score a worldie or a corner while all my efforts lead to nothing. Stat wise I'm bossing the match, from the information I have I'm doing everything right apart from having some luck. All apart of football and things you expect but I think the game needs more stats which could help turn the situation around. Like strikers always have poor passing stats and in this type of match a touch stat would be more useful, or a take on's stat and say a cross/completion stat and so on. Say the matches where you batter them and you get no/few highlights, what use is that when an entire half passes you by and you've gained nothing except you're battering them without scoring. 

I really want new roles but they shouldn't be added until the game is stable which it isn't. A lot of roles don't work currently so they should be the focus. A lot of these issues are down to the role system and the limited control we have over them, I'd love nothing more than for them to be opened up so we can fiddle with each roles settings. All the roles are is the PSP slider settings so turning long shots off is literarily a click away if we were allowed to access them. Have the standard roles for players who struggle but also have them openable so experienced players can play how they want to. As I've said before I don't believe the EME is the future, I think we'll know come 2018 if it is or not. 

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23 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

I hear both sides tbh. Yes, the OME allows big scores and players to score big numbers in 1 game too often. But look at both engines.. How many Messi's and Ronaldo's can we create? Pele's.. I got Villalibre to score 1000 goals.. Armstrong 1000 goals.. On what planet will that happen? Not Earth surely. What about seeing all those small teams conquering the world. Just have a look at the careers in here. My Benfica career winning CL 10 or so times in 13 seasons.. Sevilla no different.. West Ham winning all available Cups.. Pescara winning Seria A multiple times.. Gent owning Europe.. Torino.. TOP Oss.. El Ejido (at some point :) .. and lots lots more. Not once but everywhere.. If we're going to analyze the game in detail and want to touch on the 'realism' subject don't forget to take these into account too.

That's not the engine's fault.  I believe the problem lies within the terrible training system.  In addition to being inflexible, it allows us to train inhuman (and this year, unhappy) beastly ball-of-stats monsters.  In my El Ejido save (see, you remember it already ;)), my players' stats jumped up almost immediately to Second Division levels.  Then, on my first season in the Second Division, I finished safely mid-table and a case could be made that I could've made playoffs were it not for some finishing woes.  

Compare the stats of your Villalibres and Armstrongs to the Messis and Ronaldos.  They weren't that far apart.  Hell, look at @scratch99's Vardy stats he just posted.  Show me just the stats without anything else, and my first dozen guesses wouldn't be Vardy.  

On second thought however, this is a game.  And I'm guessing the majority of SI's customers aren't Vibe experts who play hundreds of seasons on every version.  I'd say they actually LIKE winning titles and seeing their team progress instead of worrying about silly things like realism. 

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1 hour ago, BatiGoal said:

I hear both sides tbh. Yes, the OME allows big scores and players to score big numbers in 1 game too often. But look at both engines.. How many Messi's and Ronaldo's can we create? Pele's.. I got Villalibre to score 1000 goals.. Armstrong 1000 goals.. On what planet will that happen? Not Earth surely. What about seeing all those small teams conquering the world. Just have a look at the careers in here. My Benfica career winning CL 10 or so times in 13 seasons.. Sevilla no different.. West Ham winning all available Cups.. Pescara winning Seria A multiple times.. Gent owning Europe.. Torino.. TOP Oss.. El Ejido (at some point :) .. and lots lots more. Not once but everywhere.. If we're going to analyze the game in detail and want to touch on the 'realism' subject don't forget to take these into account too.

The game is nowhere near reality, period. But I take it for what it is and I enjoy playing the challenges with you guys and read your careers etc. It makes my world a little more enjoyable so I just go with this fantasy of a football managing game that rapes reality more often than not.

Spot on. Anyone saying they want total realism is kidding themselves. Games are meant to be fun and somewhat in the land of fantasy. 

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2 hours ago, veerus said:

On second thought however, this is a game. And I'm guessing the majority of SI's customers aren't Vibe experts who play hundreds of seasons on every version.  I'd say they actually LIKE winning titles and seeing their team progress instead of worrying about silly things like realism. 

Exactly. The word 'realism' should've never come up but SI put it forward and many players use(d) it in their defence of the game/engine.

As you say, it needs to be a game and we need to be able to create our own little fantasy footballing world with endless possibilities to keep it fun. So talking two broken engines doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the end imo. I'll play whatever engine the game ends up with and won't waste too much time analyzing it.

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4 hours ago, BatiGoal said:

I hear both sides tbh. Yes, the OME allows big scores and players to score big numbers in 1 game too often. But look at both engines.. How many Messi's and Ronaldo's can we create? Pele's.. I got Villalibre to score 1000 goals.. Armstrong 1000 goals.. On what planet will that happen? Not Earth surely. What about seeing all those small teams conquering the world. Just have a look at the careers in here. My Benfica career winning CL 10 or so times in 13 seasons.. Sevilla no different.. West Ham winning all available Cups.. Pescara winning Seria A multiple times.. Gent owning Europe.. Torino.. TOP Oss.. El Ejido (at some point :) .. and lots lots more. Not once but everywhere.. If we're going to analyze the game in detail and want to touch on the 'realism' subject don't forget to take these into account too.

The game is nowhere near reality, period. But I take it for what it is and I enjoy playing the challenges with you guys and read your careers etc. It makes my world a little more enjoyable so I just go with this fantasy of a football managing game that rapes reality more often than not.

Best comment but don t forget Mainz ;)

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what is the formatio

El 27/3/2017 a las 9:25, BatiGoal dijo:

Eso es lo que debes hacer para superar mi récord de 19 goles en OME. Nunca he visto más de 20 gls en una sola partida en ninguno de los motores.

 

5HTMjRo.png

:)

 

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