Jump to content
FMM Vibe
veerus

Introducing "harder mode" - NIT Difficulty


It's no secret that if you spend any amount of time with FMM, you will find that it is too easy. There are many reasons for this, most related to the poor AI - playing players out of position, questionable tactical instructions, poor squad conditioning management, failing to lock up good players, etc. 

All of those things are out of our control so there's no reason to dwell on them. But there is one thing that is within our control and it can drastically change how we play this game. And that thing is - player training. Intensive training to be exact. 

Let me show you what I mean. I ran a quick test where I picked 12 "first team" Manchester United outfield players (Shaw, Valencia, Smalling, Bailly, Jones, Matic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku) and tracked their attribute changes (tracked as a sum of all attributes) while on holiday from game start date of July 1, 2017 to January 1, 2018. Only training regimes that were tested are General, Defending, and Attacking. Since this just a long-winded introduction to the new difficulty level idea and not a full test, I'll spare you the details, but here are a couple highlights:

Test 1 (default training when you start a new game): on average, the 12 players gained 4.62% total attributes (for example: Pogba went from total of 244 to 254 - a 4.10% increase). Players lost an average of 1.17 weeks to injury. Team went 10-4-7 for 34 points and 12 goal difference.

Test 2 (PriZe intensive training per his guide): on average, the 12 players gained 7.86% total attributes. Players lost an average of 2.67 weeks to injury. Team went 13-4-4 for 43 points and 21 GD.

Clearly, intensive training boosts your players to unrealistic levels compared to the rest of the players in the game. This gives the human player a huge advantage by essentially having a team of Messi's and makes the game too easy! 

But what if we turn the training down a bit? I alluded to this in a thread in FMM17 and it likely inspired a famous competition challenge during one of the cups last season. So I tested LIGHT training - all training regimes turned to light, except the "main" one (tactics for general training, defending/attacking for those respective regimes) which was at medium. For example:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.97c8affab09bc027e2677f46f5c921a4.png

Test 3 (LIGHT training): on average, the 12 players LOST 4.33% total attributes. Players lost an average of only 0.42 weeks to injury. Team went 8-9-4 for 33 points and 17 GD. 

This looks a bit like overkill. And so my final tweak helped me arrive at what I would suggest should be the default training mode for those wanting more of a challenge! I call this mode:

NIT (Not Intensive Training) Difficulty 

Your training regimes should follow the following rules:

  • set Fitness and Motivation to MEDIUM 
  • set the PRIMARY role in the regime to MEDIUM (tactics for general - see example below, defending/attacking/goalkeeping for those respective regimes)
  • set all others to LIGHT (or none for non-GKs)

image.thumb.png.e6d594a2437b52a0c9afd2b5d5844eb2.png

Test 4 (NIT difficulty): on average, the players lost 0.5% total attributes. Players lost an average of 0.83 weeks to injury. Team went 12-2-7 for 38 points and 10 GD.

I should also mention that under NIT, the young stars who you would expect to improve, did just that - Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku gained an average of 3.91% total attributes. Perfect!

I would challenge everyone to try the NIT training regimes and let me know in this thread if you still find the game "too easy". And if you do - try it with LIGHT training regime (test 3).

Let your tactics guide you to victory!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

Great idea for a challenge without needing to jump to smaller teams for the FMM thrill. 

Perhaps this could be one of the ways for SI to increase the game's difficulty. Or at least for a starting manager. If you think of it it's quite "unrealistic" that all starting managers like us with local/normal reputation are all great coaches on the training grounds too, so apart from the already existing badges, perhaps an idea to expand this training aspect of the game is to unlock certain training options as we grow our reputation and become better managers in the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

perhaps an idea to expand this training aspect of the game is to unlock certain training options as we grow our reputation and become better managers in the game. 

You have to realize that any "unlock" that happens during the game will make the game easier which is essentially what IT does currently.  Your Vanarama National players have the stats of League 1/2 players.  Your Championship level players have the stats of mid/top-table PL team.  And your PL team quickly becomes literally "top 1" with an unrivaled starting 11 winning everything in sight.

Until they change how training works, the only way to keep the "power creep" in check and keep the game challenging for more than a few seasons is to stay away from in-game unlockables that are designed to help the casual players. This includes not touching IT as I suggested above.  But this also includes not adding yourself as a coach to the team as you become an extra GOLD NATURAL "x" coach that no AI team could have on their roster.  Never accept sugar daddy, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right in that it doesn't entirely solve the "game being too easy" bit I understand that. For that to happen the AI really needs to wise up one way or another. But it could give SI a few extra options to determine a difficulty level other than the unlockables already in place. 

However, if the AI manager remains at the level of my PE teacher's coaching abilities in 4th grade then going with your scenario in the OP is a good way for a much more challenging experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting idea, tbh I'd hate to make public the amount of saves I've had where I forgot to "turn on" IT haha. In my opinion training should be massively improved or just removed at this point as we've had the same pointless settings for over a decade now. I'd much rather IT just be default as let's face it everyone uses it so we could scrap the setting up of it :P 

As the CC showed not using training can indeed increase the difficulty but like I said in another thread you have to question how a players stats, his role and the teams instructions all link together. 

When it comes to difficulty I always have these questions 

1. Is the formation completely your own?

2. Do you use PA lists, sign WKs, use early regens, use the unlockables etc

Granted 2018 does appear too easy so I'll back that claim as I also do want a reasonable challenge. My main concern is that rising the difficulty just makes the game appear cheap. That's a really tough balance to get right IMO, look back at the mess of super keepers a few years back and how frustrating the game was with the AI scoring so easily. Yes that happens IRL but it was incredibly frustrating and in many ways it was a type of difficulty, especially as one of the main reasons for 2018's easiness is due to how many we can score.

At the same time as the game doesn't appear to change too much year on year experienced players are going to know what works and what doesn't. A lot of players went into 2018 with a base or concept that's likely worked last year and it's not like they can just break tactically sound formations. 

I'm of the opinion that FMM should be open to be as difficult as you want it to be but the default challenge of the game has to be of a decent level for that to work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ashez said:

At the same time as the game doesn't appear to change too much year on year experienced players are going to know what works and what doesn't

This is a key point, I think. We here on Vibe represent a vocal minority who are experienced. Game just added two brand new leagues which will certainly attract a new audience. With the game already being pretty hard to get into as a newbie, it would make perfect sense for SI to make scoring a bit easier to attract and retain more players from some of the biggest markets in the world.

To me, it comes down to two basic points:

  1. I prefer careers over challenges (or certainly team challenges over individual player challenges). But to make those careers last more than a few years, it can't be too easy. 
  2. This game, at its core, is a stat salad which gets put through the engine simulator. IT makes your players superhuman so they win the stat salad war every time. So this is the only way I can affect the difficulty of the game without jumping through various other, more complicated, hoops (such as demoting players which is a common challenge stipulation).
3 hours ago, Ashez said:

the default challenge of the game has to be of a decent level for that to work.

Judging by the amount of people here saying the game is hard and asking for tactics help, I'm guessing SI would argue that it is decent enough...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been using more or less the default training presets for a while now and I have to say it does make a difference. With IT players can make several years' growth in a matter of months, which is totally unrealistic and ruins the long term challenge of improving young players. We shouldn't have to handicap ourselves to make the game realistic though, the difficulty issue is something SI need to address.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another interesting take is what is the relationship between a players stats and his CA? How do they work together? We know IT alone won't improve a players CA and the players CA is how good he is. 

If two identical players have a CA of 150 but one has 18 shooting and the other has 15 what's the true impact? If CA is how good they are how much does their stats mean? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I've seen no evidence to support the claim that CA has a meaningful effect on matchdays.  When the engine decides that a player is going to shoot, it's going to look at his SHOOTING attribute and not his overall CA.  CA just limits how much a player's stats can rise in a general sense over time.  That's why older players always have the same CA/PA and their stats never go up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, veerus said:

Personally, I've seen no evidence to support the claim that CA has a meaningful effect on matchdays.  When the engine decides that a player is going to shoot, it's going to look at his SHOOTING attribute and not his overall CA.  CA just limits how much a player's stats can rise in a general sense over time.  That's why older players always have the same CA/PA and their stats never go up.

But wouldn't the CA influence his level of performance/average rating? That can't purely be stat based can it? 

I know I've had players who are solid stat wise but haven't had the performances to back it up. Or a wonder kid (low CA/High PA) with 18 shooting wouldn't be as prolific as an older player with a higher CA at that point? Sure you're then having to take into account a lot more but it's an interesting discussion point. So much of this game is myth, hearsay and rumour haha. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ashez said:

So much of this game is myth, hearsay and rumour haha. 

I wish I could disagree with that. I've made decisions that seemed logical that failed on the pitch and very questionable tweaks that improved performance. Not wanting to dwell too far off topic but it's all about finding that middle ground and hitting that FMM soft spot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for submitting this. I'm always looking for ways to make the game more challenging, and I'll definitely try this!

I do see that with NIT difficulty, your team actually improved its record to 12-2-7 (compared to 10-4-7 with the default training setting). 

Of course, I know that your real goal is to reduce player attribute inflation to a more realistic level (ie, -0.5% decrease with NIT versus +4.62% increase with default settings), but that fact that your team appears to have done better with NIT makes me wonder if you did anything different with tactics in the NIT simulation versus the default settings simulation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, sfnate said:

but that fact that your team appears to have done better with NIT makes me wonder if you did anything different with tactics in the NIT simulation versus the default settings simulation?

Don't pay attention to that. I did nothing except press holiday for a few months after starting a save. The randomness variations are huge when you consider that each result is individually generated over a 4-5 month holiday. I would bet if you ran each version 10-20 times, there would be a measurable difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, veerus said:

I would bet if you ran each version 10-20 times, there would be a measurable difference.

Yes, I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek about it, although I wonder if the reduction in injury time associated with a light training program helps to keep more key players on the pitch, and thereby improves the odds of winning more matches? 

I suppose the only way to figure that out would be to simulate a ton of matches, to see if the trade-off had that kind of impact. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past few versions I’ve gone to clubs and set myself rules of only playing players of the same nationality as the clubs,, otherwise the game is just far too easy! This version it seems to be transfers that are too easy, amazing players are to be found on the transfer lists and willing to sign for poor teams. I rebuilt my entire squad in 1 and a half seasons and have found myself a little bored with the save already. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Snip said:

This version it seems to be transfers that are too easy, amazing players are to be found on the transfer lists and willing to sign for poor teams.

That's been literally every version ever and not just this year.

AI shortcomings are numerous and out of our control. That's why I suggested the training change as a straight forward difficulty setting without hindering the core way of how we play the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, veerus said:

That's been literally every version ever and not just this year.

AI shortcomings are numerous and out of our control. That's why I suggested the training change as a straight forward difficulty setting without hindering the core way of how we play the game. 

Yes the players have always been available,, I guess what I mean is that this year they seem more willing to join lower ranked teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/11/2017 at 23:49, Relja96 said:

I'm such an unexperienced cunt!

You may be lacking experience dude but watch your language, I know kids use the site too.

Let's keep it  good for all....just saying.

Peace!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Chris Woodward said:

You may be lacking experience dude but watch your language, I know kids use the site too.

Let's keep it  good for all....just saying.

Peace!

Yeah, you're fucking right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×