Chat Defensive Midfielders Ratings

[FuddledFox]

This is something I have discussed with @Ashez and I have seen others mention DMC match ratings as well

I think this case shows that they are just too low and unrealistic. My DLP who was playing in the DMC position for my Juve team had the most assists of my entire team with 14 and this was despite having APs playing ahead of him but his AvR only came in at 6.62. This can't be right and it should be noted that we walked the league, won the Italian cup, champions league and scored over 150 goals in all competitions so we weren't a bad team. We also only conceded 41 goals in 57 games so we where decent at the back as well. This must be something that can be looked into and I thought this was a good case because my guy had the most assists in the team despite not taking corners or freekicks. I know I have seen people have worse ratings for their DMC and in fact in a Barca save I have Busquets only had an AvR of 6.4 again despite the team dominating in most games although he had a lot less assists.

I know a 6 may be considered an average game but its so frustrating that you get such average ratings for players in this position when most of your other players have 7+ AvR.

Screenshots 

[zaangie]

This is a thing since EME was released. Don't know why it's not fixed yet. Winger role in AML or AMR had the same issue but I think it got fixed this year, not sure. 

[PriZe]

As post above, is an issue ever since EME got introduced. Defender ratings are a bit off as well.

my hunch is that it goes wrong how the calculate the rating per position and what is "needed" for that role and position to get a good rating.

for now i would say ignore it as the players do perform their duty. Only issue will be moral as ratings influence that. Hope SI are looking into this @Alari @Marc Vaughan?

[Rjgreeno]

9 minutes ago, PriZe said:

Defender ratings are a bit off as well.

My full backs always seem to perform well but my Center backs are a bit off especially the left Center back

[Ashez]

Any sort of defensive player is hindered on the EME, especially in midfield. I've talked about this since the EME was introduced and personally I feel I know what the issues are, I've even reported them to SI and had my suspicions confirmed. At this point i'm certain the issue is with the engine and it can't or won't be fixed tbh, we've complained for what three odd years and no improvement. I know there are alot of people banging this drum and they have been for a while, even with evidence of the issue this is being swept under the carpet, it's basically the stamina bug part 2. I'll be honest and say I haven't allowed myself to look deeply into this yet on 2018 as I'm trying to stay positive but prior knowledge added to stuff I've already noticed about the engine this year and it's clear to see the EME is just a mess. I had the game one night and I noticed a quirk to it and one that can be easily exploited, I've since looked into that problem and discussed it with friends and it's so clear to see it's laughable. Like I said last year there is a reason why stupid formations work and I feel even stupider ones are possible this year. 

Unfortunately this is a big issue to me as I love my defence midfielders and to see them some under appreciated drives me crazy. Every top team has one IRL, that's a fact and in almost all of those teams the DMC is the key cog for their entire system. 

Talking of iffy ratings has anyone got BBM's working well? They seem to be doing the job I want them to be doing in match but they rarely get good ratings at all. I did put it down to my formation but if ratings are kinda off I thought I'd ask. 

[SaintPaul]

I like the fact that ball winning midfielders don't get high ratings, it mirrors reality 

As others have said, they do their job (in game), but the role is basically a sacrifice for the rest of the team 

They win the ball and make short passes, that's not exactly worthy of a rating above 7, but again, they're doing exactly what they're meant to be doing 

[FuddledFox]

2 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

They win the ball and make short passes, that's not exactly worthy of a rating above 7, but again, they're doing exactly what they're meant to be doing 

To me the rating should be based on what the role requires. So a BWM who has a great game and wins all his tackles and keeps possession should get an 7 or 8 to reflect he has done his job well that game. If he had an assist or goal that rating could go up to a 9 or 10. 

[billy2shots]

8 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

I like the fact that ball winning midfielders don't get high ratings, it mirrors reality 

As others have said, they do their job (in game), but the role is basically a sacrifice for the rest of the team 

They win the ball and make short passes, that's not exactly worthy of a rating above 7, but again, they're doing exactly what they're meant to be doing 

Hmmmm, N'golo Kante winning player of the season may counter that argument. 

[FuddledFox]

Just now, billy2shots said:

Hmmmm, N'golo Kante winning player of the season may counter that argument. 

That's the problem as that can't happen in FMM even if your DMC is your best and most influential player it's almost impossible for him to win POTY awards because he won't get good enough ratings.  

[billy2shots]

17 minutes ago, FuddledFox said:

That's the problem as that can't happen in FMM even if your DMC is your best and most influential player it's almost impossible for him to win POTY awards because he won't get good enough ratings.  

 

You're preaching to the converted mate. I bore everyone every year asking SI not to introduce new things until they fix old problems. Adding new roles to the DMC position whilst leaving the obvious unfixed has me pulling my hair out. 

It all comes back around to sales at the end of the day. You can market new features as a good selling point. Saying you have fixed existing issues doesn't quite have the same ring to it and won't shift copies so it's obvious where the time and effort has been concentrated. 

[SaintPaul]

1 hour ago, billy2shots said:

Hmmmm, N'golo Kante winning player of the season may counter that argument. 

Kante isn't a ball winning midfielder 

He was a box to box player at Leicester, and is a deep lying playmaker for Chelsea 

He has the same role as Jordan Henderson, but does it better 

[SaintPaul]

1 hour ago, FuddledFox said:

To me the rating should be based on what the role requires. So a BWM who has a great game and wins all his tackles and keeps possession should get an 7 or 8 to reflect he has done his job well that game. If he had an assist or goal that rating could go up to a 9 or 10. 

I agree but being a provider, or goal scorer isn't part of their job, and they do get a higher rating when they contribute in either way you mentioned 

It wouldn't make sense for a ball winning midfielder to be rated 7-8 each week, they don't contribute enough 

Mile Jedinak is a stereotypical ball winning midfielder, and a good one, but how often do you hear of widespread praise for him? 

[FuddledFox]

26 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

I agree but being a provider, or goal scorer isn't part of their job, and they do get a higher rating when they contribute in either way you mentioned 

It wouldn't make sense for a ball winning midfielder to be rated 7-8 each week, they don't contribute enough 

Mile Jedinak is a stereotypical ball winning midfielder, and a good one, but how often do you hear of widespread praise for him? 

I agree that you don't get widespread praise for a BWM so it is unrealistic to expect them to win awards in the game but the player ratings should reflect how the player performed in the game and if he did his job well that should be reflected in his rating much more than it currently is. The same goes for DLP who get equally low ratings in FMM if played as a DM but these players do receive huge praise IRL just think Pirlo, Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Carrick the list goes on and on. Ok they don't win WPOTY often but they receive worldwide acclaim for the role they play in their teams success but in FMM they would probably have the worst AvR in your squad.

[Ashez]

21 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

I agree but being a provider, or goal scorer isn't part of their job, and they do get a higher rating when they contribute in either way you mentioned 

It wouldn't make sense for a ball winning midfielder to be rated 7-8 each week, they don't contribute enough 

Mile Jedinak is a stereotypical ball winning midfielder, and a good one, but how often do you hear of widespread praise for him? 

That's not the point though, we're taking about level of their performances not who talks about them, however look at the coverage Matic and Kante get as they do their job well. That new DMC Palace picked up last January also made a big impact in their play. 

A solid DMC is a vital cog in many systems and Matic is a perfect example as look how much he's helped improve United. He offers protection which allows them to attack more while being the physical ball winner. Compare that to a make shift DMC in Henderson and look how exposed he often leaves us as he's not defensive enough, put a solid DMC in our side and our defence would massively improve as it would protect us when our wingbacks are high up the pitch. 

DMC's do go under appreciated but to accept that is just daft as their role is as vital as anyone's on the pitch IMO. If they weren't important why would so many be used? Fernandinho is the unsung hero of this fantastic Manchester City we're enjoying of late, Kante was vital for Leciester and Chelsea, it's an important area of the pitch. Name the last few winners of any major trophy and I guarantee they had a class DMC/BWM. 

In FMM terms why play a DMC when you can play 2 APM's who will get solid 7 ratings. This rating issue isn't intended at all and it's extremely frustrating.  

[SaintPaul]

11 minutes ago, Ashez said:

That's not the point though, we're taking about level of their performances not who talks about them, however look at the coverage Matic and Kante get as they do their job well. That new DMC Palace picked up last January also made a big impact in their play. 

A solid DMC is a vital cog in many systems and Matic is a perfect example as look how much he's helped improve United. He offers protection which allows them to attack more while being the physical ball winner. Compare that to a make shift DMC in Henderson and look how exposed he often leaves us as he's not defensive enough, put a solid DMC in our side and our defence would massively improve as it would protect us when our wingbacks are high up the pitch. 

DMC's do go under appreciated but to accept that is just daft as their role is as vital as anyone's on the pitch IMO. If they weren't important why would so many be used? Fernandinho is the unsung hero of this fantastic Manchester City we're enjoying of late, Kante was vital for Leciester and Chelsea, it's an important area of the pitch. Name the last few winners of any major trophy and I guarantee they had a class DMC/BWM. 

In FMM terms why play a DMC when you can play 2 APM's who will get solid 7 ratings. This rating issue isn't intended at all and it's extremely frustrating.  

N'golo Kante isn't a ball winning midfielder and Fernandinho is a deep lying midfielder 

Of course they're important, but their job is easier than a creative player's one is 

There were years when Buffon should have won awards on a worldwide stage, but didn't, because creative players win games 

I'm not saying that the in game ratings are intentional, I'm saying that I don't mind lessee ratings for players who do the ugly things 

 

[samhardy]

1 minute ago, SaintPaul said:

N'golo Kante isn't a ball winning midfielder 

Is that a joke?

[SaintPaul]

22 minutes ago, FuddledFox said:

just think Pirlo, Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Carrick the list goes on and on. Ok they don't win WPOTY often but they receive worldwide acclaim for the role they play in their teams success but in FMM they would probably have the worst AvR in your squad.

I don't have a problem with DLPs in the game, the average rating in my teams are just under 7.4 over a season 

[SaintPaul]

3 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Is that a joke?

Winning the ball in midfield doesn't make him a ball winning midfielder, it's just part of his overall game 

Roy Keane made plenty of challenges in each game and he wasn't simply a ball winning midfielder 

Same with Steven Gerrard, although his tacked could be wild 

There's a massive difference in play between a set ball winning midfielder, and what Kante does 

[samhardy]

10 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

Winning the ball in midfield doesn't make him a ball winning midfielder, it's just part of his overall game 

It's the main part of his overall game, making him a ball winning midfielder. What was the main reason he won PFA player of the year last year? His ability to win the ball back time and time again and then transform it into another part of his game. It all starts with winning the ball back. Even FMM have him down as a BWM!

[SaintPaul]

3 minutes ago, samhardy said:

It's the main part of his overall game, making him a ball winning midfielder. What was the main reason he won PFA player of the year last year? His ability to win the ball back time and time again and then transform it into another part of his game. It all starts with winning the ball back. Even FMM have him down as a BWM!

You might want to tell him that then. He told FourFourTwo magazine that he believed he won the award for his ability to get up and down the pitch, which was essential to Leicester's counter attacking style 

Matic is a ball winning midfielder, and there is a big difference between what he and Kante do. I'm a St.Johnstone fan, and player roles in FMM don't match what the players do. Right positions, but not always the correct roles. 

Rino Gattuso is the perfect example of a ball winning midfielder, do you really not see any difference between him and Kante? 

[Ashez]

Kante's job is to win the ball back, his energy allowed him to do that all over the pitch. This is where defining by roles doesn't work but they're both BWMs to me but ones more mobile. 

[samhardy]

2 minutes ago, SaintPaul said:

You might want to tell him that then. He told FourFourTwo magazine that he believed he won the award for his ability to get up and down the pitch, which was essential to Leicester's counter attacking style

First of all, he didn't win the award in 2015/16, Riyad Mahrez did. He won the award when playing for Chelsea. Nothing to do with Leicester's counter attacking style.

Answer this question: What is Kante's main role when stepping onto the pitch? His main job is to win/intercept the ball. Simple as that. I'm not disputing he excels in other areas of the pitch, however it's clear as day to anyone what his main role is.

I'm not sure what else to say as you're trying to argue that the best BWM on the planet isn't a BWM...

[BatiGoal]

7 hours ago, SaintPaul said:

Mile Jedinak is a stereotypical ball winning midfielder, and a good one, but how often do you hear of widespread praise for him? 

It's simply not interesting enough to be talking about such players for the average football fan when there's providers and scorers on the other side of the spectrum, but I bet he's getting all the praise he deserves from his manager. 

7 hours ago, FuddledFox said:

the player ratings should reflect how the player performed in the game and if he did his job well that should be reflected in his rating much more than it currently is.

That's what it is all about of course. I don't enjoy look at racing dots and they only way to accurately rate players is to watch an actual game. So we have to rely on the ratings and hope they're helping us do our job. I don't tho, very little tbh, I go by results and really don't care too much for ratings. 

6 hours ago, samhardy said:

First of all, he didn't win the award in 2015/16, Riyad Mahrez did

One of my fav BWMs 

[phila]

On 12/10/2017 at 06:42, samhardy said:

First of all, he didn't win the award in 2015/16, Riyad Mahrez did. He won the award when playing for Chelsea. Nothing to do with Leicester's counter attacking style.

Answer this question: What is Kante's main role when stepping onto the pitch? His main job is to win/intercept the ball. Simple as that. I'm not disputing he excels in other areas of the pitch, however it's clear as day to anyone what his main role is.

I'm not sure what else to say as you're trying to argue that the best BWM on the planet isn't a BWM...

I think you could argue that he was a ball winning midfielder last year - certainly at Leicester he resembled one. But this year his role has morphed as he has worked on his ball skills. He is playing a much bigger role in attack now and I reckon Kante would arguably be looking like becoming one of the best CMs in the world, i would be highly surprised if FMM has him as a pure BWM in next years version. 

[Vaile23]

On 09/12/2017 at 10:44, Rjgreeno said:

My full backs always seem to perform well but my Center backs are a bit off especially the left Center back

I've noticed that, thought I was going crazy that the left always performed worse than the right!

On 09/12/2017 at 16:06, SaintPaul said:

I like the fact that ball winning midfielders don't get high ratings, it mirrors reality 

As others have said, they do their job (in game), but the role is basically a sacrifice for the rest of the team 

They win the ball and make short passes, that's not exactly worthy of a rating above 7, but again, they're doing exactly what they're meant to be doing 

That's the mindset I've settled for, but I don't think it shoud be like that. My best players are DLP/BWM yet have the worst ratings, it just isn't right. 

[Ashez]

I wonder if the RCB vs LCB "issue" could be footedness? Are you playing left footed players on the left side or right footed? 

(Just something that popped into mind :p) 

[Quinnbo]

I stopped using one - with ratings so poor I presumed the game was just passing them by.

[Twister045]

I definitely notice a difference if I play with a DMC (usually BWM or A) in the sense that it tightens things up at the back and as a result I tend not to concede as many.  That being said, they may not always be effective as all players have an off day so it's difficult to gauge if the DMC player is having a good game or a bad game without looking at the detailed player stats. The player rating is supposed to be there to give us this information at a glance, but you have to take it with a pinch of salt with DMCs. My guess is the rating system within the game doesn't fully understand the DMC position in the sense that it doesn't recognise tackles/headers won, interceptions, passes completed etc in the way that it should.

 

Surely players ratings should be based on their performance in relation to the demands of their role? Hopefully this will be fixed in the next update

[Snip]

On 13/12/2017 at 17:10, Twister045 said:

I definitely notice a difference if I play with a DMC (usually BWM or A) in the sense that it tightens things up at the back and as a result I tend not to concede as many.  That being said, they may not always be effective as all players have an off day so it's difficult to gauge if the DMC player is having a good game or a bad game without looking at the detailed player stats. The player rating is supposed to be there to give us this information at a glance, but you have to take it with a pinch of salt with DMCs. My guess is the rating system within the game doesn't fully understand the DMC position in the sense that it doesn't recognise tackles/headers won, interceptions, passes completed etc in the way that it should.

 

Surely players ratings should be based on their performance in relation to the demands of their role? Hopefully this will be fixed in the next update

Nailed it..