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URz

Chat Should SI call time on OME?

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As a long-term OME fanboy this is close to heresy 😱, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that SI should remove OME from the game now.

When they introduced EME (or NME) they stopped developing OME so that it is effectively “frozen in time”. Any new tactical features (like Final Third instructions) or new player roles are simply not understood by OME and they are just plain ignored or silently mapped onto other options. By using the same tactics screen for both match engines, SI have given the *illusion* of updating the OME but in fact it still only understand the same options it did 5 years ago.

Most devices that people run FMM on now can handle EME (even my old ipad if i’m honest). So the speed of EME is much less of an issue.

Luddities like me just need a push into the brave new world with its much richer array of tactical opportunities. 

 

What do others think? 

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I moved from PC FM to FMM in 2017 and straight away used EME as 1. EME is closer visually to the 2d view on PC and 2. I didn't know OME was a thing until I started interacting on Vibe. If I had bought FMM and it was only the OME it might not have hooked me in as the EME did despites it's many flaws.

I think OME should stay a little longer as it gives people the choice as to how they want to play which can only be a good thing in my mind.

I'm sure @Ashez and @BatiGoalwill have some views on this.

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Somebody just suggested that me playing OME on FMM18 was really a waste as all I was doing was playing FMM15 with an updated player database!! 🤔😭

 

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1 minute ago, URz said:

Somebody just suggested that me playing OME on FMM18 was really a waste as all I was doing was playing FMM15 with an updated player database!! 🤔😭

 

That’s certainly not a waste is it. If you enjoy playing the OME then that’s your decision. Surely it’s changed since 2015 though? 😳

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2 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

That’s certainly not a waste is it. If you enjoy playing the OME then that’s your decision. Surely it’s changed since 2015 though? 😳

It was a little harsh but if I’m honest they have a point as the OME part has stayed the same.

......However I am still enjoying playing FMM18 my way as you suggest 😎  ...... But could I be enjoying it more with EME is the question I guess?

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7 minutes ago, URz said:

Somebody just suggested that me playing OME on FMM18 was really a waste as all I was doing was playing FMM15 with an updated player database!! 🤔😭

 

You could say that about most sports games that come out every year, updated database and few tweeks but basically the same game. At the end of the day if you have enjoyed FMM18 and felt you got your moneys worth out of it that is all that matters.

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Absolutely not, the EME is a mess anyway and they'd lose a lot of customers if they removed the OME which a lot of people including vibers still use.

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3 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Absolutely not, the EME is a mess anyway and they'd lose a lot of customers if they removed the OME which a lot of people including vibers still use.

I know I’m new to Vibe but I had got the impression I was in the minority using OME. Nice to know I’m not alone 😉

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9 minutes ago, URz said:

I know I’m new to Vibe but I had got the impression I was in the minority using OME. Nice to know I’m not alone 😉

The only reason I play on EME is because they probably will make the decision to scrap the OME one day and there'll be loads pissed off when they do!

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I still enjoy the OME....gives me the oportunity to play more seasons with having a family. Saying that though as the kids are getting older im finding more time to invest in the EME.

for me it should stay.

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I love the ome and I'll defend it until the death, in many ways I believe it is the better engine but I'm getting more used to the EME. Is the EME better? It's prettier but it has a lot of issues which really frustrate me. I made the decision with 2018 to ignore the ome and go EME only and I believe that's partly why I've played less, the EME is a slog at times and i do struggle to commit to long term saves on the engine. My main reason for deciding to leave the ome behind is purely because SI have but I'm odd and still crave a stat based engine over a visual one. I'll admit my articles with @Foxyhave opened my eyes some what to the potential of the EME yet I still think after years it's potential and not really realised. Then you have the damage the introduction of the EME caused the series like it releasing a mess and the work on it stagnated other areas, I do feel the EME was rushed to the table. 

At the end of the day you play the engine that you enjoy, instead of seeing one as better than the other I see it as one for each play style, both have their quirks and difficulties and I do hate the elitist attitude towards the ome some EME fans have. Com only stat view will always be FMM to me, I'll admit the visuals have grown on me but the lack of depth in other areas makes it bitter sweet, if they could nail the stats and include more I'd be a lot happier. 

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For me personally, I'd let the OME die. If it's not really tied into the new tactics etc, then ... it's a subpar engine. Without a future.

From a selfish point of view, having us all on the same engine would be good as well. It would save all those "Is that tactic for EME or OME?" questions and separate sections on leaderboards etc. We'd all be playing the same game.

I know some aren't that fond of EME and sure, it's not perfect, but to me that's the game now and OME is purely a relic.

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52 minutes ago, Scratch said:

For me personally, I'd let the OME die. If it's not really tied into the new tactics etc, then ... it's a subpar engine. Without a future.

From a selfish point of view, having us all on the same engine would be good as well. It would save all those "Is that tactic for EME or OME?" questions and separate sections on leaderboards etc. We'd all be playing the same game.

I know some aren't that fond of EME and sure, it's not perfect, but to me that's the game now and OME is purely a relic.

Reading this whole thread and then this from @Scratch has convinced me that from FMM19 I need to bite the bullet and abandon OME 😱

I’m curious though. @Ashez and @samhardy imply that the EME is broken. Is this just various inconsistencies or are there specifics? 

 

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38 minutes ago, URz said:

Reading this whole thread and then this from @Scratch has convinced me that from FMM19 I need to bite the bullet and abandon OME 😱

I’m curious though. @Ashez and @samhardy imply that the EME is broken. Is this just various inconsistencies or are there specifics? 

 

The EME is broken, but that’s not to say the OME hasn’t got its faults either. Like @Scratch says, the OME is now a subpar engine which doesn’t have a future and will undoubtedly be stripped from the game eventually (be that in FMM 19 or later) the limited resources that SI do get for the game is without a doubt pumped into the EME side of things. Which then makes you think why the hell we still have so many issues on the engine, but that probably warrants its own thread. I for one changed to the EME as soon as it was released and certainly won’t be swayed back.

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As long as OME still faster at processing match than EME on Android, I am not going to try EME. I have heard that EME is faster than OME on iOS, so I guess the "enhanced" in EME stands for enhanced for iOS only?

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Why are people so adamant it should be removed? I get the EME has moved past it and it's the future but why are EME fans so obsessed with the engine being removed? It takes up no extra development time as it's basically complete and some people enjoy it or it's the only engine they can play. I get why people don't want to play it but I don't understand why it should be removed. It's simply there as an option for device ability or personal preference and it has zero impact at all on the EME. 

I don't use scouts as I think they're out classed by my own judgement but I'm not calling for them to be removed. 

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11 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Why are people so adamant it should be removed? I get the EME has moved past it and it's the future but why are EME fans so obsessed with the engine being removed? It takes up no extra development time as it's basically complete and some people enjoy it or it's the only engine they can play. I get why people don't want to play it but I don't understand why it should be removed. It's simply there as an option for device ability or personal preference and it has zero impact at all on the EME. 

I don't use scouts as I think they're out classed by my own judgement but I'm not calling for them to be removed. 

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying I want the OME stripped from the game, far from it, I want it there for the reasons you just gave. I can however see them stripping it eventually

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Eventually I'm sure it will go but asking for it to go before it's time is what I disagree with. I just don't see why people push for it to be removed when it doesn't impact them at all and it's removal will hurt the community and fans of that engine. 

I stuck with the ome until 2018, in 2017 I played both as they suited different play styles. With the release of 2018 I went EME only as like others I know the ome's time will eventually come but I can't say that decision has made me like FMM more, deep down I know it's hindered my out put tbh. The reason I've not tried the ome on 2018? The simple answer is fear! I'm scared if I allow myself to play that way again I won't come back from it, if it wasn't for Vibe I'd 100% be playing the ome. 

We had this same debate with people demanding the PSP version be killed off yet my favourite year of FMM was 2013 when I played hundreds of hours of the PSP and mobile version as they felt like completely different games suited for different tasks. When I was sick of one I could jump to the other and experience FMH all year round. 

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On 05/10/2018 at 20:44, URz said:

When they introduced EME (or NME) they stopped developing OME so that it is effectively “frozen in time”. Any new tactical features (like Final Third instructions) or new player roles are simply not understood by OME and they are just plain ignored or silently mapped onto other options. By using the same tactics screen for both match engines, SI have given the *illusion* of updating the OME but in fact it still only understand the same options it did 5 years ago.

Most devices that people run FMM on now can handle EME (even my old ipad if i’m honest). So the speed of EME is much less of an issue.

I forgot to ask, but is there any solid proof(or maybe direct explanation from the developer) that OME is inferior in every way just like you mentioned(OME ignoring new tactical features, etc.)?

As for how EME being handled on most devices, like I said, EME is handled well . . . on iOS. On Android? Not only it's slower at processing match compared to OME, it's downright sluggish. & I have tried it on many devices with different SOCs(SD 820, 625, 630, 617, 430, 808). Until they fix this issue, OME needs to stay.

Edited by TheServant
Changing a word.

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44 minutes ago, TheServant said:

forgot to ask, but is there any solid proof(or maybe direct explanation from the developer) that OME is inferior in every way just like you mentioned(OME ignoring new tactical features, etc.)?

All the developers have said is the OME is tossing a coin while the EME apparently calculates everything iirc.

Tactical feature wise I think people didn't find 2018's new tactical stuff that useful on the ome. 

Edited by Ashez

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48 minutes ago, TheServant said:

I forgot to ask, but is there any solid proof(or maybe direct explanation from the developer) that OME is inferior in every way 

Wow that’s a big jump from not being developed further to inferior in every way

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16 minutes ago, Ashez said:

All the developers have said is the OME is tossing a coin while the EME apparently calculates everything iirc.

Tactical feature wise I think people didn't find 2018's new tactical stuff that useful on the ome. 

I see. Could you give me the link/the source to that statement from the developers? & why do people think the new tactical stuff are not useful on OME? Does this conclusion simply come from some anecdotal evidence?

 

 

16 minutes ago, URz said:

Wow that’s a big jump from not being developed further to inferior in every way

I think you forgot to include/read the complete sentence. "I forgot to ask, but is there any solid proof(or maybe direct explanation from the developer) that OME is inferior in every way just like you mentioned(OME ignoring new tactical features, etc.)?"

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If it’s there, and it works, and some people still use it, then why bother ditching it? It seems bad business practice to do it. 

I converted to EME about a year ago and I love it. The thing that annoyed me at first was the match speed being slow, but I soon got used to that. But I’d hate to impress my opinion upon the gameplay choice of others, so why should the company?

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7 hours ago, Rob2017 said:

I converted to EME about a year ago and I love it. The thing that annoyed me at first was the match speed being slow, but I soon got used to that.

Exactly. EME is noticeably slower than OME on Android. If the developers managed to make EME faster than OME on iOS, then at the very least they should make EME as fast as OME on Android.

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On 12/10/2018 at 07:22, Rob2017 said:

If it’s there, and it works, and some people still use it, then why bother ditching it? It seems bad business practice to do it. 

Because every year, even if they are not actively developing the OME at all, they still have to make sure that any new features in the game works with OME. So if they add squad numbers, they have to make sure the right numbers show up in both EME and OME, including when you sub people and people get sent off (which has previously messed up the numbers in edge cases). If they add instant replays, same thing, needs to work with both. etc, etc.

None of that is likely to be a huge deal, but it adds up and it's using some of their resources which could be better spent elsewhere (in my opionion). In software development, maintaining legacy features always slows you down. 

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7 hours ago, Scratch said:

Because every year, even if they are not actively developing the OME at all, they still have to make sure that any new features in the game works with OME. So if they add squad numbers, they have to make sure the right numbers show up in both EME and OME, including when you sub people and people get sent off (which has previously messed up the numbers in edge cases). If they add instant replays, same thing, needs to work with both. etc, etc.

None of that is likely to be a huge deal, but it adds up and it's using some of their resources which could be better spent elsewhere (in my opionion). In software development, maintaining legacy features always slows you down. 

Then build on both. With our toolsets we still maintain legacy stuff because people still use them. IMO with FMM it should be the same.

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