Chat Winter Update

[LenTheWelsh]

I’ve said it before, it’s all about smoke and mirrors with Sega America. Just look at the fact that @Marc Vaughan firstly tried to discredit this poll then immediately went and voted in it. He then logged in to see he had been called out and fucking disappeared for a week again. I know people here are going to be pissed I’m calling him out but his actions show such a lack of respect for this community. It’s something they have been doing season after season too coz they know they are just under investing and ultimately ripping us off. Their priority is to try and control the situation best they can instead of genuinely looking after its loyal fan base.

 

Look at the state of things now. 4 years into SI developing EME and it’s the biggest mess ever and do any of us know what’s going on and when to expect it? Like fuck do we, we’re just left dangling in limbo while SI figure out their best way of squirming out of it. 

 

[Lav50]

[LenTheWelsh]

33 minutes ago, Lav50 said:

I think I’ve become so old that some memes just fly right over my head 😂

[RPA123456]

23 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

I think I’ve become so old that some memes just fly right over my head 😂

Well in this scenario it's a case of it going right through the head

 

[LenTheWelsh]

31 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

Well in this scenario it's a case of it going right through the head

 

Omg I’m so stupid 😂 thanks mate 👍

[Ashez]

4 hours ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

SI are a small team and have limited resources

So fix what they've sold us instead of adding new issues purely for marketing and buzz words. 

 "Realism"

"traits"

"coaches"

"Enhanced Match Engine"

 "German Licence"

 "Reputation system" 

[Lillywhite Dean]

2 hours ago, Ashez said:

So fix what they've sold us instead of adding new issues purely for marketing and buzz words. 

You have to be realistic. Yes I would love SI to spend their whole time perfecting FMM but they won't make any money (and therefore guarantee long-term sustainability) if they don't develop new releases with added features and enhancements. They're a business first and foremost.

2 hours ago, Ashez said:

"Realism"

"traits"

"coaches"

"Enhanced Match Engine"

 "German Licence"

 "Reputation system" 

These aren't buzz words. These are actual features of FMM. 

I have no idea what happened to the German licence though.

[Ashez]

2 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

You have to be realistic. Yes I would love SI to spend their whole time perfecting FMM but they won't make any money (and therefore guarantee long-term sustainability) if they don't develop new releases with added features and enhancements. They're a business first and foremost.

In the summer yes but not in a mid season patch. Every new feature has brought more issues than the feature was worth. 

3 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

These aren't buzz words. These are actual features of FMM. 

I have no idea what happened to the German licence though.

Realism - The game isn't realistic in most if any sense

Traits - A feature that does absolutely nothing 

Coaches - A feature that does absolutely nothing 

Those three especially they plastered all over advertising of new releases and they're all completely meaningless. Just something to throw on a poster to build false hype. 

The only new thing you can count on with FMM is bugs. 

Like seriously please explain to me how traits are a feature? They're lists with zero provable evidence they do anything, especially as they change whenever they see fit. Or coaches, what's a feature out of knowing gold beats silver and bronze plus a name 😂. 

[Dar J]

11 hours ago, Ashez said:

Realism - The game isn't realistic in most if any sense

Traits - A feature that does absolutely nothing 

Coaches - A feature that does absolutely nothing

You said coaches do nothing yet people have proven that having a motivational coach helps training teamwork and fitness coaches help a little bit with the fitness level of the squad

[Lillywhite Dean]

12 hours ago, Ashez said:

Like seriously please explain to me how traits are a feature? They're lists with zero provable evidence they do anything, especially as they change whenever they see fit. Or coaches, what's a feature out of knowing gold beats silver and bronze plus a name . 

I think I would prefer to trust SI that these features do something rather than assume they do nothing just because I can't see any obvious evidence with my own eyes. 

There was also a thread about this on the official SI Forums:

https://community.sigames.com/topic/471185-question-on-player-traits/?tab=comments#comment-11791903

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Lillywhite Dean

[Lillywhite Dean]

12 hours ago, Ashez said:

Realism - The game isn't realistic in most if any sense

Traits - A feature that does absolutely nothing 

Coaches - A feature that does absolutely nothing 

Realism is open to interpretation. You could argue that the PC version of FM is not realistic but I would say that for a mobile device, FMM is the most realistic football management sim available.

Traits - as above.

Coaches - they do something. I can go to my coach profile page and see which players are benefiting from my coaches training.

12 hours ago, Ashez said:

Those three especially they plastered all over advertising of new releases and they're all completely meaningless. Just something to throw on a poster to build false hype. 

The only new thing you can count on with FMM is bugs. 

You have no evidence for this.

[Scratch]

21 hours ago, LenTheWelsh said:

Just look at the fact that @Marc Vaughan firstly tried to discredit this poll then immediately went and voted in it. He then logged in to see he had been called out and fucking disappeared for a week again. I know people here are going to be pissed I’m calling him out but his actions show such a lack of respect for this community.

I think he's entitled to vote in the poll, as he's a member of this site. Of course he will vote for his opinion, which is obviously going to be aligned to the way the game is, but it's only one vote and he's entitled to it. If he was getting all his mates to sign up just to vote for his side, that would be out of line, but I've seen no evidence of that. 

Not sure about there in the UK, but here in Australia politicians can vote for themselves...  Can't see how this is any different.

As for the rest of what you say about Marc, personally I think it's great he even comes to this site at all. He doesn't have to and half the time his company is getting bagged to shit, which can't be easy. I wouldn't blame him if he never came here at all. And there's plenty of other games / software / services / whatever where you don't get any access to the people who make it. I reckon he's showing respect to this community just by showing up.

For what it's worth, I totally agree that the latest version is way too hard with the conditioning. I think they got that wrong big time. But that doesn't mean Marc's doing anything wrong or showing a lack of respect...

[Ashez]

2 hours ago, Dar J said:

You said coaches do nothing yet people have proven that having a motivational coach helps training teamwork and fitness coaches help a little bit with the fitness level of the squad

Yeah fair enough, I got a little carried away I'll admit. It's tough to call something a feature though when you pick gold, silver, bronze and hardly think of it again. I'd say what caught me out is they've become more important with this new training tbf. 

2 hours ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

I think I would prefer to trust SI that these features do something rather than assume they do nothing just because I can't see any obvious evidence with my own eyes. 

There was also a thread about this on the official SI Forums:

https://community.sigames.com/topic/471185-question-on-player-traits/?tab=comments#comment-11791903

 

I just worry alot of FMM is smoke and mirrors mate, personal I do believe the game is elevated by myth, speculation and theory and I do feel some features lean into this. Like the EME being a tactical battling engine? How is that even possible with the information we have and the MOTD style highlights? Yet some people believe that's the case, especially during its first few years. The tactic breaking over time one is another popular one which in ten plus years I've had no experience of. 

Traits are just text that go alongside the players stats, if he's a good dribbler he'll have the runs with ball trait most the time. It just means they might do something in match but we'll never know either way. SI like to keep certain things close to the chest which leads to fans speculating and assuming what happens which leads to myths around certain aspects. 

Even in that thread you linked nothing is cleared up tbf, the comment that assumes they do nothing is conveniently ignored. Personally if they were important and gave us some tactical input into how the game plays I'd be ecstatic but I've seen no evidence they do anything and they change that often they're impossible to use. Last year I found a perfect TM with the trait "plays with back to goal" and I really wanted a supportive TM for an idea I was working on but that trait disappeared in weeks of signing him and I wouldn't say his performance changed. We can't even search for them so at the very least it's half baked. 

[LenTheWelsh]

44 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I think he's entitled to vote in the poll, as he's a member of this site. Of course he will vote for his opinion, which is obviously going to be aligned to the way the game is, but it's only one vote and he's entitled to it. If he was getting all his mates to sign up just to vote for his side, that would be out of line, but I've seen no evidence of that. 

Not sure about there in the UK, but here in Australia politicians can vote for themselves...  Can't see how this is any different.

As for the rest of what you say about Marc, personally I think it's great he even comes to this site at all. He doesn't have to and half the time his company is getting bagged to shit, which can't be easy. I wouldn't blame him if he never came here at all. And there's plenty of other games / software / services / whatever where you don't get any access to the people who make it. I reckon he's showing respect to this community just by showing up.

For what it's worth, I totally agree that the latest version is way too hard with the conditioning. I think they got that wrong big time. But that doesn't mean Marc's doing anything wrong or showing a lack of respect...

Well that’s where you and I having differing opinions then. I think professional ethics should have meant he didn’t vote and I think he is showing a lack of respect to FMM’s loyal fan base with his/their smoke and mirror antics and comparing it to someone’s democratic rights has no relevance here whatsoever. Also, I don’t think you can compare FMM to most games as it’s a game that relies on its loyal fan base coming back year after year buying the game no matter what. I’d put myself in that category having bought one version or another going all the way back to the first CM. As things stand I have not intention of buying 2020 which will be the first time in my life I haven’t bought a copy and I think that’s an incredibly sad state of affairs but unfortunately it’s a situation SI have created ✌️

[Scratch]

3 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

Well that’s where you and I having differing opinions then. I think professional ethics should have meant he didn’t vote and I think he is showing a lack of respect to FMM’s loyal fan base with his/their smoke and mirror antics and comparing it to someone’s democratic rights has no relevance here whatsoever. Also, I don’t think you can compare FMM to most games as it’s a game that relies on its loyal fan base coming back year after year buying the game no matter what. I’d put myself in that category having bought one version or another going all the way back to the first CM. As things stand I have not intention of buying 2020 which will be the first time in my life I haven’t bought a copy and I think that’s an incredibly sad state of affairs but unfortunately it’s a situation SI have created ✌️

We'll have to agree to disagree then. If you don't buy 2020, then we'll be equal, because I've only bought it every year since CM2. 😄

[LenTheWelsh]

2 minutes ago, Scratch said:

We'll have to agree to disagree then. If you don't buy 2020, then we'll be equal, because I've only bought it every year since CM2. 😄

Even though I disagree I respect your opinion mate and I’m not coming from a place of just wanting to moan or anything like that. I bloody love FM and it’s been an important part of my life for the majority of it and I think it’s worth fighting for. I really want to love fm in its current guise, I’d love nothing more to than to be putting endless hours into fun save and challenges but I just can’t no matter how hard I try but I’ll also admit this is kinda like the straw that broke the camels back in the sense that this situation has been building up for the last few years with the way the game has been developed. 

[Lillywhite Dean]

3 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

 I think he is showing a lack of respect to FMM’s loyal fan base

I'm not feeling disrespected.

[LenTheWelsh]

Lily, I try so hard to make sure everything I write is clearly my opinion (to mainly keep you happy) but you still feel the need to have your ‘mic drop’ moment. 

Maybe it’s time to put them SI poms poms down mate ✌️

[FuddledFox]

Before I post this I just want to point out that I’m well aware that Vibe isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to places to share views and careers about FMM. I know there are other outlets but I’ve also noticed it’s quieter in some of those that I look at as well.

That said I think Vibe is a decent (but not the only) barometer when it comes to these things.

Since the winter update Vibe has been pretty quiet in terms of new careers etc. I realise the game is nearly 6 months old but usually once the new DB comes out we see a few new careers posted often from less well known faces on Vibe. Even the regulars arent starting new stuff except @Scratch and @Rob who are both on pre update versions.

This cannot be a coincidence imo and I think it’s the less regular posters that are the tell tale sign. We get them posting careers when the game is just out then they drift away and then usually a spurt with the new update before it again goes quiet in the summer. These are the people that may not come on here and comment about an update as they will simply go off and play a different game and dismiss FMM all together.

[RPA123456]

10 minutes ago, Foxy said:

Before I post this I just want to point out that I’m well aware that Vibe isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to places to share views and careers about FMM. I know there are other outlets but I’ve also noticed it’s quieter in some of those that I look at as well.

That said I think Vibe is a decent (but not the only) barometer when it comes to these things.

Since the winter update Vibe has been pretty quiet in terms of new careers etc. I realise the game is nearly 6 months old but usually once the new DB comes out we see a few new careers posted often from less well known faces on Vibe. Even the regulars arent starting new stuff except @Scratch and @Rob who are both on pre update versions.

This cannot be a coincidence imo and I think it’s the less regular posters that are the tell tale sign. We get them posting careers when the game is just out then they drift away and then usually a spurt with the new update before it again goes quiet in the summer. These are the people that may not come on here and comment about an update as they will simply go off and play a different game and dismiss FMM all together.

Sad but true... 

This version has already lost many fans it seems, fans that won't be back. 

But I also want to point out that there are still many madly devoted fools like me who will still buy and play FMM every year and post careers

[Ashez]

23 minutes ago, Foxy said:

Before I post this I just want to point out that I’m well aware that Vibe isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to places to share views and careers about FMM. I know there are other outlets but I’ve also noticed it’s quieter in some of those that I look at as well.

That said I think Vibe is a decent (but not the only) barometer when it comes to these things.

Since the winter update Vibe has been pretty quiet in terms of new careers etc. I realise the game is nearly 6 months old but usually once the new DB comes out we see a few new careers posted often from less well known faces on Vibe. Even the regulars arent starting new stuff except @Scratch and @Rob who are both on pre update versions.

This cannot be a coincidence imo and I think it’s the less regular posters that are the tell tale sign. We get them posting careers when the game is just out then they drift away and then usually a spurt with the new update before it again goes quiet in the summer. These are the people that may not come on here and comment about an update as they will simply go off and play a different game and dismiss FMM all together.

Wise words these, 2019 seemed to have been one of the best years for a while before the update. Admittedly my perspective might be off as I've also been more involved this year but either way there is no getting around the drop in content after the patch dropped. 

@Foxyif your careers weren't in the later stages would you still be playing/posting?

[FuddledFox]

13 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

But I also want to point out that there are still many madly devoted fools like me who will still buy and play FMM every year and post careers

I’m exactly the same once the 2 careers I have going are finished and posted I already have an idea for my next one as I love the game. SI have a sale in me each year tbh and have done since the mid to late 90s but younger more casual players may be put off and they are the potential buy every year players of the future for either FMM or even people starting here and progressing to the more detailed versions.

9 minutes ago, Ashez said:

your careers weren't in the later stages would you still be playing/posting?

80 games yes as that is update prove really due to the important players only playing league games so I am chopping and changing a lot anyway which was a grind before and is still a grind now. Mitro probably not as that has become a real grind since the update.

[Ian]

Interesting points bring put across. I personally only started posting stuff around Christmas and whilst I’m not a great player of the game and not the best writer of content I have really enjoyed contributing.

I really just post for myself (selfish I know) but if somebody reads it and takes something from it then that’s great.😀

I was always going to have a little break after the Vibe Premier League but I’ve noticed some of the systems that I’ve used appear to be not quite as effective as they were pre third hotfix. I’m not sure what it is but it’s mainly in defence and maybe the IF position, obviously I could do plenty of testing and maybe find a solution but what if the next update comes out and ruins my new systems?

Anyway I’m not going disappear but I’m kind of waiting for new update before I commit to any long term saves.

So that’s another view of a fairly new member.

[Lillywhite Dean]

1 hour ago, LenTheWelsh said:

Lily, I try so hard to make sure everything I write is clearly my opinion (to mainly keep you happy) but you still feel the need to have your ‘mic drop’ moment. 

Maybe it’s time to put them SI poms poms down mate

You don't need to keep my happy. You write whatever you want to write. 

I like your "SI poms poms" dig. And I admit, I have been a bit of a SI Cheerleader of late. But it's only because some of the criticism levelled at SI on here has been really harsh or just ridiculous.

But that's just my opinion.

[Nucleus]

Another mic drop moment there 😴😴😴😴

[LenTheWelsh]

3 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

You don't need to keep my happy. You write whatever you want to write. 

I like your "SI poms poms" dig. And I admit, I have been a bit of a SI Cheerleader of late. But it's only because some of the criticism levelled at SI on here has been really harsh or just ridiculous.

But that's just my opinion.

I don’t mean literally keep you happy ya weirdo I mean to not give you a reason to completely dismiss a post in one ‘mic drop’ moment like you so often do.... and that’s just my opinion.

[Lillywhite Dean]

4 hours ago, Nucleus said:

Another mic drop moment there

The animosity in this place. Staggering.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Lillywhite Dean

[LenTheWelsh]

3 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

The animosity in the place. Staggering.

It doesn’t help that you keep responding with more mic drop moments mate 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Lillywhite Dean]

17 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

It doesn’t help that you keep responding with more mic drop moments mate

You're going to have to explain this one to me because I thought a "mic drop moment" was when you respond to something in a triumphant way.

[LenTheWelsh]

3 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

You're going to have to explain this one to me because I thought a "mic drop moment" was when you respond to something in a triumphant way.

• used to emphasize that a discussion is at an end after a definitive or particularly impressive point has been made.

  "Nuff said. Mic drop!"