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Help Condition on latest update


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Can I get some feedback on the condition on the latest update - I know there are a very small minority of in-game players who appear capped slightly below 100% (normally 95-98% I believe so still playable) which is incorrect and will be rectified in a hot-fix shortly (hopefully next week all being well) but outside of that it should be working as expected ... ie. between matches mostly players will recover well into the 90% bracket if they have 7 days between matches and most will be definitely playable (ie. 90%+) even if they have matches every 4 days early in the season ... towards the end of the season some players will struggle a little for fitness if the games are coming thick and fast and sometimes you will find a player below 90% so you'll have to decide if he's good enough that he's worth playing when not fully fit or not.

(the information indicated here is 'generalised' and some players - notably very old or very young may differ somewhat, also keepers should be basically able to play nearly all matches)


If you're seeing different to this then please let me know and give me examples - ideally with save games, there is a chap named 'WelshLen' on the SI Forums who posts here and appears to have a strong opinion about this so I'd be especially interested in hearing from him.

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I’ve pinned this for you. 

The hotfix is way better imo. Not played a full season yet but it seems more balanced than the original update.

@LenTheWelsh is who I believe you’re on about :) 

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I must say, I really like the new condition. 

Not as easy as release(where my 2nd team would only get rotated if I felt like rotating :) )

But also not as terrible as winter update(took the fun out of the game as it got too stressful thinking about who to rotate and when to rotate so they would be fit for the important games...) 

I personally like it as it is right now, but yeah that issue with the players fitness being locked is kinda annoying(I've gotten around it a little by subbing out the player at the right times) 

Overall, FMM 2019 is in a pretty okay place right now. Any messing around with condition after this just seems to be asking for trouble :)

 

Edited by RPA123456
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I’ve played a full season on the hot fix. I found it to be pretty much how you’ve described it there. I’m in Scotland and the champions league so had two games a week for most of the season. I rotate a fair bit by choice and I was more or less just playing as I normally would. Players were mostly getting into the 90’s before games apart from younger players who I found I had to be selective in when I played them and I’m fine with that tbh. I haven’t got any players older than 30 so can’t comment on older players but I’m enjoying the update.

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1 hour ago, RPA123456 said:

Overall, FMM 2019 is in a pretty okay place right now. Any messing around with condition after this just seems to be asking for trouble :)

Thanks - all of your feedback is very much appreciated, I apologise for the ruckus with the update, we (as always) do our best to ensure things go smoothly and be open with users on the rare occasions when they go astray.

I'm personally really enjoying the game in its current state and there aren't 'huge' differences between my current build and the one in the wild - the only 'condition' changes which I have in place are simple fixes to the players who are being incorrectly capped and a couple of minor tweaks to some messages being displayed (when it shows 'tired' or similar on their personal profile it means they're recovering condition slightly slower it doesn't mean they can't be played - but users appear to be getting confused about this so I've tweaked its display a little).

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If it worked like you are explaining it it would be great but the capped fitness problem is making the conditioning way worse because their starting place is so much lower. Also, the fact it keeps saying intheir training page that they need a rest but doesn’t anywhere else adds so much extra work checking everyone and why you’ll you should need to rotate your team due to conditioning in September after your first weekend, midweek then weekend fixture list because half your squad are in the 86-92% range. Sure I can play some of them (rising the risk of injuries) but just increasing their need for future rest. It gets to the point where you need 2 teams, one for the weekend and one for midweek fixtures. As for the GK, since the hotfix my GK hasn’t got tired and jaded but it constantly says on his training page he needs a rest.

 

in theory this update could be amazing but like the new training for FMM19 it just ends up sucking a little fun out of the game. Maybe I’m on my own but I thought I’d read quite a few people on here not totally happy either 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Thank you for your feedback Len - I'd be very interested in taking a look at one of your save games as what you're seeing seems 'far' more extreme than I am seeing personally. You definitely shouldn't be needing two teams, although if you're in all the cups and Europe then some rotation may well be required during heavy fixture periods as happens irl.

I'll check the training feedback section and see whether the text appears in my version here, as mentioned all that means is that he's not training quite as hard and his condition might recover very slightly slower (generally if there is a decent period of time between games (say a week) then it will go away unless he's been playing a LOT over a long period).

Edited by Marc Vaughan
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22 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

In theory this update could be amazing but like the new training for FMM19 it just ends up sucking a little fun out of the game. Maybe I’m on my own but I thought I’d read quite a few people on here not totally happy either 

I'm (kinda) with you on the conditioning part, but I honestly feel training this year was a step up from the last few years... 

I mean we all used to just set everyone to intensive and wait for the gains to come in. That was just plain boring and mindless. Now with the new training system I feel I can actually have some kinda uniqueness with the players I have. Before, if a player was a Inside forward at age 18 he would be an inside forward at age 28, but now with the new training system I can mould my players to my playstyle. Back then I would sell or release any player who didn't 'fit'. Now? No problem. 

Sorry if all this seems a bit rant-y, its late at night(where I'm at) and i thought it was BS that you thought the training was worse this year. 

Edited by RPA123456
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19 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Thank you for your feedback Len - I'd be very interested in taking a look at one of your save games as what you're seeing seems 'far' more extreme than I am seeing personally. You definitely shouldn't be needing two teams, although if you're in all the cups and Europe then some rotation may well be required during heavy fixture periods as happens irl.

I'll check the training feedback section and see whether the text appears in my version here, as mentioned all that means is that he's not training quite as hard and his condition might recover very slightly slower (generally if there is a decent period of time between games (say a week) then it will go away unless he's been playing a LOT over a long period).

We’ve spoke about sending saves before. Not turned my pc on in years and I can’t send direct from device (iPad) I’m playing the app on. 

Id be interesting to try the game after the stamina capping fix and the tweaks you mentioned in rewording of ‘needs a rest’ on the training page. Maybe it would solve my frustrations with it 👍 like I said I think in theory it’s a great addition to the game.

 

16 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

I'm (kinda) with you on the conditioning part, but I honestly feel training this year was a step up from the last few years... 

I mean we all used to just set everyone to intensive and wait for the gains to come in. That was just plain boring and mindless. Now with the new training system I feel I can actually have some kinda uniqueness with the players I have. Before, if a player was a Inside forward at age 18 he would be an inside forward at age 28, but now with the new training system I can mould my players to my playstyle. Back then I would sell or release any player who didn't 'fit'. Now? No problem. 

Sorry if all this seems a bit rant-y, its late at night(where I'm at) and i thought it was BS that you thought the training was worse this year. 

Just to be clear I love most of the new training. Love being able to put focus on individual stats and training suited to roles but I find the way it’s put this rock solid ceiling on players development a little boring. I agree last years training was too OTT and you could increase player stats way too much but this year I think players progression just stops too soon especially with younger players. By the time you get to the 2nd season you are lucky if you have 2-3 first teams players still progressing and it gets boring after every match being reminded of how the majority aren’t progressing anymore. How often will you buy a 19-20 who’s played just 10 games for his crappy club with crappy facilities and staff and playing at a crappy level and then has a massive jump up in everything but refuses to progress. You’d never get a Jamie Vardy or Eric Cantona in this game. I just think player progression is one dimensional now and take no experience and success into account. So yeah, player progress isn’t right not training but it’s come about with the introduction of the new training system.

 

 

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Sorry if all this seems a bit rant-y, its late at night(where I'm at) and i thought it was BS that you thought the training was worse this year. 

Reading between the lines I think some of the things which Len dislikes with training (Len, correct me if I'm wrong) is how players complain about training levels sometimes and some of the descriptions in training worrying him so he feels he has to pay more attention to it then he might like.

I can understand this if these are his issues and will look to tweak things a little as I don't think the text in question is quite as 'important' as he feels it is and if it is misleading some people and causing them to not enjoy the game then that is obviously an issue worth addressing.

Len - am I correct in my presumptions or could you clarify what you dislike with training further?

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This might not be something that could be done for this game but maybe for FMM20.

Perhaps before a game we could get a news item from our physio which tells us the % condition of each player as a list (I realise this info is in the team selection screen) but more importantly also how tired they are so that we can decide who should be rested, who is getting to the point they might need resting in a few games and who is flying.

I hear in real life managers talk about players being in the Red Zone and this list seems like it would be the kind of thing a real life manager might get before a match. It could be as simple as.

  • Green Zone: Player isn’t tired at all.
  • Yellow Zone: Player is starting to get a little jaded and may need a rest in the future but perfectly fit to play if needed in the current match.
  • Red Zone: The player could do with a rest in the next couple of games.

This is would be a simple way we could see who is getting tired or not at a glance.

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Quote

By the time you get to the 2nd season you are lucky if you have 2-3 first teams players still progressing and it gets boring after every match being reminded of how the majority aren’t progressing anymore. How often will you buy a 19-20 who’s played just 10 games for his crappy club with crappy facilities and staff and playing at a crappy level and then has a massive jump up in everything but refuses to progress. You’d never get a Jamie Vardy or Eric Cantona in this game. I just think player progression is one dimensional now and take no experience and success into account. So yeah, player progress isn’t right not training but it’s come about with the introduction of the new training system.


Ok to clarify a few things ...

(1) Players will only develop past a specific point through having at least some first team football, training alone will never make someone into Messi.
(2) Players may be limited in their progression by various factors - including (a) Facilities at the club, (b) Level of the coaches at the club, (c) Level of the competitions they're active within. If they are stifled by these they won't progress and you'll see a reference on their training profile and sometimes also within their personal profile (feels he needs to leave to progress or similar).
(3) Players won't fully develop at an early age in most cases - so someone who is very young might be limited in progressing fully until they've matured a little before they develop some more, so say someone shoots into contention aged 18-19, it might be that is as far as he can get until he reaches his 'maturity' (which is calculated from various factors including age and mental stats) ... generally this is 20-22 depending on the player HOWEVER it can be higher or lower than this (so yes a Vardy or whatever can and will happen).

The intent of this is (1) making the game more realistic (ie. you can't just instantly train the heck out a player on intensive and know he's great or not), (2) making things slightly more challenging.

Developing a young team isn't an easy thing and requires some patience. I wrote the darn game and I still get it 'wrong' now and then ... and it sucks when I let someone move on and they then establish themselves elsewhere long-term ;)

Edited by Marc Vaughan
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4 minutes ago, Foxy said:

I hear in real life managers talk about players being in the Red Zone and this list seems like it would be the kind of thing a real life manager might get before a match. It could be as simple as.

  • Green Zone: Player isn’t tired at all.
  • Yellow Zone: Player is starting to get a little jaded and may need a rest in the future but perfectly fit to play if needed in the current match.
  • Red Zone: The player could do with a rest in the next couple of games.

This is would be a simple way we could see who is getting tired or not at a glance.

If you look at the team page you'll see that the condition indicator beside the player pretty much does this already - green is go, then it drops down in colour as a warning, the reason the percentage is there is really legacy (our games have always had it) and I prefer the indicator as its more intuitive myself.

I don't mind the idea of having a news item, but equally I don't want to slow the pace of FMM and want to keep things fun and fast to play (and every item/page to click through subtlye slows things down).

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I only started playing yesterday but I like the way condition works. If I play weekend, midweek, weekend, by the third game a few will be tired. Playable, but tired. That's how it should be IMO. I don't see the point in building squads of 20 odd players if I can use 11 all season barring injuries. 

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13 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:


(3) Players won't fully develop at an early age in most cases - so someone who is very young might be limited in progressing fully until they've matured a little before they develop some more, so say someone shoots into contention aged 18-19, it might be that is as far as he can get until he reaches his 'maturity' (which is calculated from various factors including age and mental stats) ... generally this is 20-22 depending on the player HOWEVER it can be higher or lower than this (so yes a Vardy or whatever can and will happen).

The intent of this is (1) making the game more realistic (ie. you can't just instantly train the heck out a player on intensive and know he's great or not), (2) making things slightly more challenging.

Developing a young team isn't an easy thing and requires some patience. I wrote the darn game and I still get it 'wrong' now and then ... and it sucks when I let someone move on and they then establish themselves elsewhere long-term ;)


Ok to clarify a few things ...

(1) Players will only develop past a specific point through having at least some first team football, training alone will never make someone into Messi.
(2) Players may be limited in their progression by various factors - including (a) Facilities at the club, (b) Level of the coaches at the club, (c) Level of the competitions they're active within. If they are stifled by these they won't progress and you'll see a reference on their training profile and sometimes also within their personal profile (feels he needs to leave to progress or similar).

Just to clarify....

I’m talking about players coming from a team with terrible everything and a real low level competition to my team with top everything in the best competition. He plays. He makes zero progress no matter how much you play him. So many young players do that. Also, why when you scout a player and buy him does he, 9 times out of 10, have a stat decrease across the board then his one and only ‘level up’ from match time just return him to where he was when you scouted him. I’ve had players that I’ve persevered with 2/3 years in my first team playing decent but with zero progress then I decide to sell them and they seem to get a stats boost within a month or two of joining their new team despite playing worse.

10 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

I don't mind the idea of having a news item, but equally I don't want to slow the pace of FMM and want to keep things fun and fast to play (and every item/page to click through subtlye slows things down).

But you’ve added this massive time sink of a new stamina system? 🤦🏼‍♂️

Edited by LenTheWelsh
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7 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

If you look at the team page you'll see that the condition indicator beside the player pretty much does this already - green is go, then it drops down in colour as a warning, the reason the percentage is there is really legacy (our games have always had it) and I prefer the indicator as its more intuitive myself.

I don't mind the idea of having a news item, but equally I don't want to slow the pace of FMM and want to keep things fun and fast to play (and every item/page to click through subtlye slows things down).

So is the indicator linked to the players condition or how tired he is? 

By that I mean if a player has conditioning of 97% could the indicator be yellow meaning he will not recover quickly after the next game and you might want to rest him or sub him in the 2nd half.

I have always gone by the % myself mainly I guess because of the legacy you talk about and the fact it has always been there.

As for speed a news item can be ignored especially earlier in the season if the player wants but I definitely get the point.

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Just now, LenTheWelsh said:

Just to clarify....

I’m talking about players coming from a team with terrible everything and a real low level competition to my team with too everything in the best competition. He plays. He makes zero progress no matter how much you play him. So many young players do that. Also, why when you scout a player and buy him does he, 9 times out of 10, have a stat decrease across the board then his one and only ‘level up’ from match time just return him to where he was when you scouted him. I’ve had players that I’ve persevered with 2/3 years in my first team playing decent but with zero progress then I decide to sell them and they seem to get a stats boost within a month or two of joining their new team despite playing worse.

Sometimes you will buy players and they just won't come on as you hope - do bear in mind that when someone is already near Premiership standard they're unlikely to progress particularly further without match experience and that at a high level helps a lot, this is why Premiership teams in real-life loan out their players to other clubs after all.

You will also have some players who will struggle for confidence and develop worse at larger clubs (again this is normally indicated on their training profile if you have half-decent coaches).

Again if you can get a save game to me then I'd be happy to take a look into specific instances - alternative if anyone else passing has similar issues I'd be happy to look at their save games also.
 

Just now, LenTheWelsh said:

But you’ve added this massive time sink of a new stamina system? 🤦🏼‍♂️

I'm aware you appear to have an issue with the new way condition works - I think you may be micro-managing a little too much in this regard or have something else going on there, but without access to your save game its hard to say. 

If you players have decent stamina ratings then you shouldn't be finding them struggling as much as you seem to be.

(out of interest are your players using intensive training? - that WILL affect their recovery obviously)

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4 minutes ago, Foxy said:

So is the indicator linked to the players condition or how tired he is? 

By that I mean if a player has conditioning of 97% could the indicator be yellow meaning he will not recover quickly after the next game and you might want to rest him or sub him in the 2nd half.

I have always gone by the % myself mainly I guess because of the legacy you talk about and the fact it has always been there.

As for speed a news item can be ignored especially earlier in the season if the player wants but I definitely get the point.

If you look at the circle indicator next to his squad selection on the team page then that is basically a 'short-cut' to their condition, it shows roughly at a glance how his condition percentage is and is a 'quick reference' for that which uses colors for emphasis.

In the match pages we show condition as a percentage because well we always ;) 

(generally in terms of 'in match' - I think of subbing players who go sub-80%, sub-70% and they're definitely coming off if I have subs left ... if they're performing badly then sometimes I'll sub them regardless and sometimes if they're doing well or a set-piece taker I'll leave them on even if they're tired, if you've only one decent corner/free-kick taker then its worth leaving him on imho)

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On the subject of training I like it. I mean it can be a bit time consuming to set up with having to go through each player but not really sure how that can be changed. I’ve also had plenty of saves where I’ve literally never touched it and it doesn’t seem to hinder results so you’ve always got that option if you are pushed for time. I like the way you can retrain players to play in new positions and it feels like it’s easier than last year but I may be wrong on that. I’ve recently retrained a player to play in CM who had no ability to play there but had the attributes. It’s took all season but he’s now competent in the position. 

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4 minutes ago, 1759 said:

On the subject of training I like it. I mean it can be a bit time consuming to set up with having to go through each player but not really sure how that can be changed. I’ve also had plenty of saves where I’ve literally never touched it and it doesn’t seem to hinder results so you’ve always got that option if you are pushed for time. I like the way you can retrain players to play in new positions and it feels like it’s easier than last year but I may be wrong on that. I’ve recently retrained a player to play in CM who had no ability to play there but had the attributes. It’s took all season but he’s now competent in the position. 

Its intended to be as little or much as you want, generally tbh I ignore it by and large but now and again I'll tweak things for a player because I want him to gain more in a specific way, this is generally after I've signed a young player and he needs to develop in a specific manner for his role (pace, aerial or stamina) ... but sometimes its because I'd like a defender to be more comfortable on the ball or whatever.

(my normal approach to such things is to look at squad depth when the season finishes and decide a few training and transfer changes based on that)

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A suggestion for training:

If I let my assistant manager take control of it, he takes control of all of it right? What if by some chance I want to control one or two players individually? There’s no such way to do so. It’s either all or nothing which is kinda frustrating. Especially in challenge situations where I’m concentrating on say 5 players. Im happy to let the assistant manager take control of the rest of the team but those 5 players I’d like to mould myself. 

Would that be possible in the near future?

Edit: The above was purely an example by the way. I haven’t got a challenge involving 5 different players in the works, had enough of that last year 😂

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@Marc Vaughan You talk about player progression like it’s super complex but in my reality it works like this. When you are playing at a top level (EPL) with top staff and facilities a player who doesn’t progress from playing is either too nervous, played too poorly or has peaked. Once a player stops gaining experience from playing there is no way of getting him progressing again. I could play him for the next 5 season straight but the only time I’ve seen a player who’s progress has stopped restart is when they come back from injury having dropped stats a little. So many times new 19 or 20 year old signing just doesn’t ever progress (or ‘level up’ from game time once) despite loads of match time. Their progress has just stopped dead. How can a young player move up so much in level of everything, get game time but make zero progress? Why would a players stats drop when you sign him and then his only ‘level up’ return him to his pre signed state? Why would you implement the new stamina system then say that a simple physio mail would slow the game down? Are you the only coder working on this? Soooo many questions 😂😂

 

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6 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

A suggestion for training:

If I let my assistant manager take control of it, he takes control of all of it right? What if by some chance I want to control one or two players individually? There’s no such way to do so. It’s either all or nothing which is kinda frustrating. Especially in challenge situations where I’m concentrating on say 5 players. Im happy to let the assistant manager take control of the rest of the team but those 5 players I’d like to mould myself. 

Would that be possible in the near future?

Edit: The above was purely an example by the way. I haven’t got a challenge involving 5 different players in the works, had enough of that last year 😂

I'll take a look into this for the next version - I don't think its a bad idea at all.

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Just now, Marc Vaughan said:

I'll take a look into this for the next version - I don't think its a bad idea at all.

It’s exactly the same as the Touch version. I let my assistant take control of all the team training then I control the individual training on the young players to try and train some new traits :D 

I think the new training system is great myself, but I can see where a lot of people would see it as a time sink. Preference on which players to control would get people to appreciate it a bit more maybe?

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15 minutes ago, LenTheWelsh said:

@Marc Vaughan You talk about player progression like it’s super complex but in my reality it works like this. When you are playing at a top level (EPL) with top staff and facilities a player who doesn’t progress from playing is either too nervous, played too poorly or has peaked. Once a player stops gaining experience from playing there is no way of getting him progressing again. I could play him for the next 5 season straight but the only time I’ve seen a player who’s progress has stopped restart is when they come back from injury having dropped stats a little. So many times new 19 or 20 year old signing just doesn’t ever progress (or ‘level up’ from game time once) despite loads of match time. Their progress has just stopped dead. How can a young player move up so much in level of everything, get game time but make zero progress? Why would a players stats drop when you sign him and then his only ‘level up’ return him to his pre signed state? Why would you implement the new stamina system then say that a simple physio mail would slow the game down? Are you the only coder working on this? Soooo many questions 😂😂



If you're at the top level then obviously you have a lot more advantages in terms of player progression (ie. good coaches and training). With regards to what you're saying outside of that I can't say without concrete examples to look into, but I'm guessing you're signing prospects who simply aren't making the grade (or just not giving them enough time or they're not performing well enough to improve for some reason, a player needs to be at least 'holding his own' in order to learn).

PS - No I'm not the only, developer on the project there are three of us who work on the game ... I've been at Sports Interactive the longest though (since the early days of CM - over 20 years now) and I'm old (circa 48 these days) and have survived raising kids so I am used to people being angry and upset with me ;)

I also make this game at least in part because I love playing it myself and I'm passionate about making the best games I can, all this combines to encourage me into popping my head above the parapets to try and get feedback even when people might be disgruntled, in all honesty its probably somewhat challenging for more junior developers at SI to post on forums at times, they are early in their careers and well aware that every word they post will be critiqued.

I try and keep things civil and ask pertinent questions, supplying what information I can about the games design to explain things as easily as possible. 

Hopefully this helps people, at the very least it helps me understand where people are coming from with their issues and helps guide my evolution of the game somewhat.

Edited by Marc Vaughan
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14 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

If you're at the top level then obviously you have a lot more advantages in terms of player progression (ie. good coaches and training). With regards to what you're saying outside of that I can't say without concrete examples to look into, but I'm guessing you're signing prospects who simply aren't making the grade (or just not giving them enough time or they're not performing well enough to improve for some reason, a player needs to be at least 'holding his own' in order to learn).

PS - No I'm not the only, developer on the project there are three of us who work on the game ... I've been at Sports Interactive the longest though (since the early days of CM - over 20 years now) and I'm old (circa 48 these days) and have survived raising kids so I am used to people being angry and upset with me ;)

I also make this game at least in part because I love playing it myself and I'm passionate about making the best games I can, all this combines to me popping my head above the parapets to try and get feedback even when people might be disgruntled, in all honesty its probably somewhat challenging for more junior developers at SI to post on forums at times, they are early in their careers and well aware that every word they post will be critiqued.

I try and keep things civil and ask pertinent questions, supplying what information I can about the games design to explain things as easily as possible. 

Hopefully this helps people, at the very least it helps me understand where people are coming from with their issues and helps guide my evolution of the game somewhat.

Hey I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I think you’re a good guy and I appreciate you even entertaining my frustrated ramblings. I am absolutely in no way angry with you but frustrated with the game and it comes out wrong sometimes (as some of the guys in here will probably tell you 😂). I often come on here after a session of FMM and maybe that’s a bad idea. But yeah I do think the game is losing sight of what I thought the USPs were and what draws me to it. Previous years have frustrated for their lack of evolution but 19 has taken 2 pretty frustrating steps imo that just tip the fun/frustrating scales in the wrong direction. Still love FM though like I have all the way back to the first CM. I’d be surprised if there’s many people around with the amount of hours I’ve put into them over the last 20 years 👍

Edited by LenTheWelsh
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40 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

If you look at the circle indicator next to his squad selection on the team page then that is basically a 'short-cut' to their condition, it shows roughly at a glance how his condition percentage is and is a 'quick reference' for that which uses colors for emphasis.

In the match pages we show condition as a percentage because well we always ;) 

(generally in terms of 'in match' - I think of subbing players who go sub-80%, sub-70% and they're definitely coming off if I have subs left ... if they're performing badly then sometimes I'll sub them regardless and sometimes if they're doing well or a set-piece taker I'll leave them on even if they're tired, if you've only one decent corner/free-kick taker then its worth leaving him on imho)

But a players condition that we see in a % or with the indicator doesn’t seem to tell us if a player is becoming tired or not as far as I can see.

I have had players later in the season who’s condition is around 96%-98% so as you say perfectly playable in a match but if I scroll across to his personal page it will say he is tired which makes me think there is a hidden tired stats. My idea is that our physio would give us an indicator of how tired a player is on one screen (it could even just be on the team selection screen) so we can assess who needs a rest with bigger games coming up.

11 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Hopefully this helps people, at the very least it helps me understand where people are coming from with their issues and helps guide my evolution of the game somewhat.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who really appreciates the time you take to gauge all of our opinions on the game that all of us are so clearly passionate about.

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I just want to say as one of the ones who was massively frustrated with the winter update i've found the hotfix has made it alot better.

Its not perfect but i kinda like that but my issue is that its not working with a current save and only fixes the issue within a new save.

Currently playing a TT save and im struggling to keep my front 3 fit enough to play consistantly yet on a fresh save im not having the same problems. 

Thanks for all your responses though @Marc Vaughan its good to know we hardcore players are all heard.

Edited by Woody
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 I have had players later in the season who’s condition is around 96%-98% so as you say perfectly playable in a match but if I scroll across to his personal page it will say he is tired which makes me think there is a hidden tired stats. My idea is that our physio would give us an indicator of how tired a player is on one screen (it could even just be on the team selection screen) so we can assess who needs a rest with bigger games coming up.

Hidden Stats - ok I'll reveal one of our 'secrets' there is a jadedness counter which is effectively 'wear and tear' on an individual player, this affects how he recovers during a season slightly, this goes up when he plays matches depending on the amount of exertion he undertakes and goes down over-time at a rate determined by his training/personal stats (it will decrease more slowly if he's doing intensive training for instance or if he's really old and has poor stamina/natural fitness).

The text indicating he is tired was triggering at the cusp of this affecting his recovery rate however from the feedback I'm getting this is scaring people and I think that is understandable as its slightly misleading, he will recover from exertions slightly more slowly but he's not really knackered at that point - because of the feedback I'm getting I'll look at tweaking when this appears so that its a little clearer to people (ie. it'll only appear when he is truly tired rather than when it only has a minor effect on recovery).

Edited by Marc Vaughan
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39 minutes ago, Woody said:

Its not perfect but i kinda like that but my issue is that its not working with a current save and only fixes the issue within a new save.

When you tick over to the next season can you let me know if its sensible from then on in - it should largely 'reset' in the summer unless your players are active in international matches.

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