Career The Sequel: Armstrong(er) - Accidental cheating/Career over

[smoggy90]

81 goals in season 1 is an amazing start!

[Ian]

Fabulous start that is and lovely to read through. Good luck in the next season. 😀

[Nucleus]

Bang average start. Start again, and this time do it properly eh!

[Scratch]

On 09/04/2019 at 23:00, ManlikeReus said:

WHAT IS THIS SORCERY! 81 GOALS IN ONE SEASON :OOO THIS AINT IT CHIEF.Genuinely,Nice work mate.Keep up with the goals.Next season 120+ goals?  

Thanks mate! Yeah I wasn't really expecting it to be that high, but the pre Winter update version is the easiest version I can remember. At least it is when you have a 20 Arial striker... I won't be surprised if he gets to 120 at some point when the team is really firing, but I'll be happy with 90 next season...

[Scratch]

23 hours ago, smoggy90 said:

81 goals in season 1 is an amazing start!

Thanks mate! Can't resist putting this in here:

Not a bad start to the next season. I wish these Champions League qualifiers lasted, but we'll be too good in a couple of years and will go right into the group stage.  

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23 hours ago, 1759 said:

Fabulous start that is and lovely to read through. Good luck in the next season. 😀

Thanks mate. Have a good feeling about this one...

[Scratch]

18 hours ago, Nucleus said:

Bang average start. Start again, and this time do it properly eh!

Yeah mate, I feel the same. Might pack it in... 

Or maybe I'm just sand bagging so I can catch you by surprise when I equal your top score...

[Chris]

Can I ask how you rolled back your game to pre-winter? Not enjoying the new update much myself... 

Edited April 10, 2019 by itzChris92

[Scratch]

2 minutes ago, itzChris92 said:

Can I ask how you rolled back your game to pre-winter? Not enjoying the new update much myself... 

I'm on Android and used an app called Android Assistant to back up the game before I updated to the Winter version. That let me restore the pre-winter version. None of the Winter save games work with the Pre-winter version and I had to download the data again, but that let me start a new career on the old version. 

The problem is: that doesn't really help you much... Sorry...  

[Chris]

1 minute ago, Scratch said:

I'm on Android and used an app called Android Assistant to back up the game before I updated to the Winter version. That let me restore the pre-winter version. None of the Winter save games work with the Pre-winter version and I had to download the data again, but that let me start a new career on the old version. 

The problem is: that doesn't really help you much... Sorry...  

I wish I had pre-empted a crap update just as you have done 😂 I finally built a tactic capable of attempting a 1kc, updated and no longer scoring. Oh well... 

[Scratch]

2 minutes ago, itzChris92 said:

I wish I had pre-empted a crap update just as you have done 😂 I finally built a tactic capable of attempting a 1kc, updated and no longer scoring. Oh well... 

Yeah it's harsh. Plenty of people not happy about this...

[Chris]

3 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Yeah it's harsh. Plenty of people not happy about this...

No bother, I'll keep trying to crack it. Can only hope another update arrives to make changes again. 

 

Good luck with the rest of your challenge. Absolutely smashing it already as expected

[Scratch]

1 minute ago, itzChris92 said:

No bother, I'll keep trying to crack it. Can only hope another update arrives to make changes again. 

Good luck with the rest of your challenge. Absolutely smashing it already as expected

Thanks mate. Good luck cracking it!

[Scratch]

I think I've broken the game... 

50 goals before November!! WTF? It's too easy. Although he has slowed down significantly since.

A lot of goals came in the early Champions League qualifiers, against very weak opposition. Scotland is a pretty weak league too (ranked around 30th at the start from memory). But still, it shouldn't be that easy to score. It's the 20 Arial thing, can't stop scoring from headers. Pavon had around 30 assists at this stage too. Just keeps plopping it on Armstrong's head...

I know I should be happy about this, but it feels strange. Really hope I don't lose interest in this...

[FuddledFox]

7 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I think I've broken the game... 

50 goals before November!! WTF? It's too easy. Although he has slowed down significantly since.

A lot of goals came in the early Champions League qualifiers, against very weak opposition. Scotland is a pretty weak league too (ranked around 30th at the start from memory). But still, it shouldn't be that easy to score. It's the 20 Arial thing, can't stop scoring from headers. Pavon had around 30 assists at this stage too. Just keeps plopping it on Armstrong's head...

I know I should be happy about this, but it feels strange. Really hope I don't lose interest in this...

I don’t know which leagues you loaded but if it simply becomes too easy and boring would you consider moving to a different league?

[Scratch]

1 minute ago, Foxy said:

I don’t know which leagues you loaded but if it simply becomes too easy and boring would you consider moving to a different league?

Maybe.. Wait, I loaded: Scotland. Yep, just Scotland. So it's this or go home...

Every 1KC I've done becomes boring after a while, it's just happened so quickly this time... With my past Celtic ones it took 4 or 5 seasons building to reach this sort of number (if at all). But this Arial thing makes it just too easy. I guess Armstrong is older than any of my previous ones which could come into too, but still.

Pedro / Beijing was super easy, but I though that was because China was easy. Maybe's just this version (with the Arial thing). I wouldn't mind it being harder, but not the Winter update way... 

Anyway, I'll persist. He does drop off before Christmas. Had two goalless games in a row. Got the slightly tired message. etc.

[Nucleus]

Try playing him in defence 😛

[FuddledFox]

8 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Maybe.. Wait, I loaded: Scotland. Yep, just Scotland. So it's this or go home...

Every 1KC I've done becomes boring after a while, it's just happened so quickly this time... With my past Celtic ones it took 4 or 5 seasons building to reach this sort of number (if at all). But this Arial thing makes it just too easy. I guess Armstrong is older than any of my previous ones which could come into too, but still.

Pedro / Beijing was super easy, but I though that was because China was easy. Maybe's just this version (with the Arial thing). I wouldn't mind it being harder, but not the Winter update way... 

Anyway, I'll persist. He does drop off before Christmas. Had two goalless games in a row. Got the slightly tired message. etc.

I know what you mean. There is a fine line between it going well and simply being too easy and boring. I guess you will have simply aim higher than just the simple 1k that or it is simply a case of what’s the least number of seasons you can hit the 1k in.

[Rob]

Maybe knocking Nuke off top place is possible after all?

[Scratch]

37 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Try playing him in defence 😛

He's still probably score at this rate! Speaking defence though - did anyone do the slabhead challenge in 2019? I reckon that would have gone pretty well in this version!

[Scratch]

32 minutes ago, Foxy said:

I know what you mean. There is a fine line between it going well and simply being too easy and boring. I guess you will have simply aim higher than just the simple 1k that or it is simply a case of what’s the least number of seasons you can hit the 1k in.

Yeah, for now I'll keep going, but I can see at some point it's all going to be a bit meh... Although I guess that was always the case. Anyway, I've got to get him to 1K, but not sure whether I'll keep going after that.

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9 minutes ago, Rob said:

Maybe knocking Nuke off top place is possible after all?

Nah... I.5K might be realistic, but not sure I'll have the patience..

[Scratch]

So... This career is over... 🙁

I was really enjoying it. I finished seasons 2 & 3 but haven't written them up yet. He got 100 in season 2, then 108 or so in season 3, plus 13 INT goals (yes, I got the job in season 2, after winning the CL that year). I had a formation that meant he scored the vast majority of the goals. Things were a little too easy, as I've mentioned before, but I was having fun! 

The problem is I have another FMM project that I've been working on, which gives you info on players. You know - true CA/PA, that sort of thing. Here's a screenshot if you're interested (but don't click if you don't want to see real CA/PA of players):

Spoiler

I was soooo soooo careful not to use that tool on my Armstrong save. Soooo careful. Then I accidentally copied the wrong save file from my phone and I saw stuff that puts me in violation of the 1KC rules... 😢 

I'm not overly worried about seeing info on Armstrong - after all, I can't actually do anything with it, it's not like I can change to a better striker at this point... It's still a violation of the rules, but I might have sought advice about whether I should give up or not. But I saw some of my players showing up in a view like the one in the screenshot above and suddenly I knew their PA, how much development was left, etc.

So, this career is over... I'm enjoying it so much that I'll probably keep playing it, but it can't go on the leaderboard, so I probably won't write it up. Sorry for those who were following along. 

[Rob]

I personally don’t think that’s cheating. Kinda interested in what others think?

I was enjoying this one too!

More intriguingly, what’s the project and what software/code are you using?

[FuddledFox]

I honestly don’t know about this one. @samhardy @Ashez what do you guys think?

The project you have going sounds intriguing. Is it something other Vibers might be able to use in the future?

[Woody]

What a shame. Hopefully this can be sorted so you can continue. 😆

[Ashez]

It really is a complete grey area as I agree it's had no impact since the save is on going and no different to people looking at PA lists which we can't stop. Yet is allowing it also allowing IGE peaking? Ahh it's why I hate PA lists/IGE peakability and the like, I wish we didn't have to post them as the PA lists are what makes this tough as it's impossible to say who knows what before starting. 

You've also been honest about something you didn't need to tell us which shows the respect you have for why these rules are in place. That's always meant an incredible amount to me. 

On one hand I see this as fine, on the other I fear for what it could lead to, yet it's all impossible to prove most the time anyway. I've been in a similar position but more cheaty, years ago while save jumping for an article I found a 197 PA Jese, the temptation was unreal but I couldn't do it as it goes against everything I've attempted to stand for. 

57 minutes ago, Rob said:

personally don’t think that’s cheating

See this where I disagree as I think knowing the CA/PA beats the entire point of the game, it's only ignored as it's impossible to enforce. However in this case it's clearly not been used for cheating but not everyone is as honest as @Scratch. 

The stance of rules are rules is usually the way forward but I'd hazard a guess 90% of people doing goal challenges have an idea of the strikers in game ability before starting. It's clear by the picks and the view counts on the thread. So have you really gained an advantage which others haven't? This is where I get unsure as I'm old school and I don't want to know the hidden stats, others do and unfortunately they're super easy to view. 

I'm completely conflicted which I guess this shows, the rules have been broken but it's a flimsy rule which I guarantee others have exploited and just not said it. The issue here is Scratch has been honest, showed the community respect and said boys I've ducked up and punishing that wouldn't be completely right. 

I really don't know....I'm too interested in this discussion as maybe Vibe is too old school, while I think that's for the best May be it's time to evolve with the times? Personally knowing the ability would kill the save for me personally, it would mean I didn't want to play it but others are different. 

[Scratch]

@Rob @Foxy @Woody @Ashez - Thanks for the feedback everyone! Especially you Ashez with that mammoth comment!

I think it's against the rules, so even if I do continue, I won't be submitting it for any leaderboards. But thanks for discussing it! 🙂

Like I said, I don't think I get much advantage if it was just me finding out the PA of my striker, after I've already committed to him. If it was just that, then maybe there's a discussion around whether that's really worse than picking a striker that we know has a high PA from the list (or just because everyone has used him). 

But.... Once you start seeing the CA/PA of your squad and potential targets, then you've just changed the nature of the game, as Ashez says. And at that point you have an advantage. That AM in your team that you thought was a future superstar only has a PA of 132 and is already fully developed? Hmm. Might trade him in for this one I've seen over here with a PA of 182... 

I actually had a look at my team once I decided to stop (couldn't help myself at that point) and I had a player my coaches were saying had a lot of of potential to improve, but he was already maxed out! The game abstracts the true CA/PA from us for a reason and this just blows that away and makes it too easy. 

I get Ashez's point that knowing CA/PA beats the point of the game (makes it even less realistic). That said, I actually enjoy playing that way sometimes (not all the time), as I love watching players develop - but it goes against the spirit of challenges and shouldn't be allowed. 

As for the tool I was using, well, I have a fascination with pulling the game apart and seeing how it works (just not on a challenge save) and at some point a few weeks ago, I finally acted on an old thought of creating something like that. I guess at the moment it's like the iscout app, although not as complete and a bit hacky. There's also some other stuff I want to add, like creating reports on the season, saving a more complete record than is in the game etc. Not sure if I'll ever get that far - it will depend if I can work out where all that stuff is stored. 

It can only run on a website at the moment (because it's easier for me to create that way) and is not anywhere complete. I'm thinking of turning it into mobile app at some point, although I'm worried about it's impact on challenges etc, for the very reasons discussed by Ashez. I have been thinking through ways of limiting the impact: maybe adding something to the save to show it's been used, then creating a 'certificate' on a website that gives a summary of the save, including whether it's been used for anything spoilery. Not sure if that's feasible or not. 

Anyway, we'll have to see if I get time to take that anywhere and if I do, it will probably take a while. But I'm keen to keep working on it at the moment.

 

[Rob]

52 minutes ago, Ashez said:

See this where I disagree as I think knowing the CA/PA beats the entire point of the game, it's only ignored as it's impossible to enforce. However in this case it's clearly not been used for cheating but not everyone is as honest as @Scratch. 

That’s my point. Scratch wasn’t doing it to cheat. Normally it is cheating and it’s why every goal challenge using has Silva or Haaland as the focal point. It’s boring and unoriginal. It’s also why I find all the 4-5-1 formations boring too cos that’s broken the game in other ways. But Scratch wasn’t purposefully doing it.

’Potential to improve a lot’ + scout stars should always just be enough. That is how I found my cheapies in my save.

@Scratch I love your desire to look ‘under the hood’. I find it interesting too. I think from previous comments we have vaguely similar lines of work, which is probably where it stems from. It’ll be good to see what you come up with in the end.

[Nucleus]

You’ve done nothing wrong imo. You’ve not edited the save in any way to give you an advantage, and the list that you’re using is basically a stripped down version of the list already on the site? 

[Scratch]

20 hours ago, Rob said:

That’s my point. Scratch wasn’t doing it to cheat. Normally it is cheating and it’s why every goal challenge using has Silva or Haaland as the focal point. It’s boring and unoriginal. It’s also why I find all the 4-5-1 formations boring too cos that’s broken the game in other ways. But Scratch wasn’t purposefully doing it.

’Potential to improve a lot’ + scout stars should always just be enough. That is how I found my cheapies in my save.

@Scratch I love your desire to look ‘under the hood’. I find it interesting too. I think from previous comments we have vaguely similar lines of work, which is probably where it stems from. It’ll be good to see what you come up with in the end.

Thanks mate. Yeah, I have a dev background, mostly web dev for the last 10 years (which is why I've used PHP for the first pass of this). Don't code much anymore though, which is why it's doubly fun to jump into stuff like this. 

[Scratch]

19 hours ago, Nucleus said:

You’ve done nothing wrong imo. You’ve not edited the save in any way to give you an advantage, and the list that you’re using is basically a stripped down version of the list already on the site? 

Not sure about the list on the site. The wonder kid one? Last time I looked it only had a star rating. And youngsters can change a lot from save to save. But I saw the real CA/PA of my players, so that's over the line for me. Anyway, it's all academic now (see my next post!).