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Foxy

FMM Mythbusters


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Any game that has been around as long as Football Manager Mobile will begin to develop common myths around what we can expect in a save. In this article I want to put 5 FMM myths to you the community and it is your job to decide whether they are FMM myth or fact.

We all have ideas about what works or to expect when we are playing FMM. Over the years these ideas will become a habit whether it be the type of backroom team we build or our expectations in the first season as we build our squad and look to get a tactic to work. The question is are these actually myths that we have created in our heads and that has spread around the community over the years or are actually fact.

So take a look at these 5 potential myths and then have your say in the poll at the end of the article and in the comments below.

 

Strikers With High Teamwork Score Less Goals

We all love a goal scorer, they are the players that make both real football exciting but especially FMM as they bang in the goals that lead your team to glory. One of the most popular challenges here on Vibe is the 1000 goal challenge where you look to emulate the career of Pelé and get a player to score 1000 career goals.

Over the years many have attempted and completed this challenge but it isn’t always as simple as it is made to look. When people look for advice on the challenge one piece of wisdom that is offered is to not use a striker with Teamwork that is too high as it is felt that will make the striker less selfish and more likely to pass instead of shoot himself.102A7ED0-B9AD-486C-ACC9-39B55E4FD19B.thumb.jpeg.48445273394d99dc426f82f4e187d985.jpeg 

When you think about it then it makes sense, higher teamwork = the player working more for the team than for himself leading to him setting up more goals and less likely to look for glory himself. I’m not so sure as many of the attributes we see in the game are a combination of the players attributes in full fat FM’s database. Teamwork is one of those attributes as it is a combination of at least two attributes, work rate and teamwork. I would say that the harder a player works the more likely he is to get into goalscoring positions and that is something I have found as I have completed two 1kc’s with high teamwork players. That is simply my experience though and perhaps Arp and Mitrovic would have completed the 1k quicker and score more in total if they had lower teamwork.

So myth or fact?

 

Player Traits Make a Difference to How a Player Performs

If you go onto a players profile and scroll to the third page you get to there positions page which also contains that players traits and whether they suit a certain role or not.

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If a trait is written in green that it should benefit the role you have selected and if it’s in red then it conflicts with the role, white text is neutral. The question is do these traits actually make the player do or not do what they say and will they effect how well a player performs a certain role?

Personally I pay no attention to these traits and I have never signed a player based on them or vice versa. I solely look at a players attributes and decide whether they suit the role that I want them to play in my tactic but perhaps that is wrong and maybe I should be looking deeper into these traits and it may make a difference in how well my signings fit into my team. I’m not 100% sure that the player traits make any difference to what a player actually does on the pitch in the game but you may feel differently and put a lot of faith in them.

So myth or fact?

 

AI learns your tactics

This is a very common one, someone’s tactic will be working well for half a season or maybe in season one but then the results will start to decline. The common wisdom is that this is the AI learning your tactic and then combatting it with there own but is this correct. This is probably giving the AI more credit than it deserves and it is a myth that even SI staff themselves have debunked.

Although it is based on the PC game this article on FMScout is worth a read but I will take an important section from it. 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-can-the-football-manager-ai-figure-out-your-tactic.html

This is what SI employee Neil Brock had to say on the subject of of whether the AI can learn an individual tactic.

The AI does not work out tactics. What can sometimes change tactically is that AI teams depending on your own club's league table position and form, will look at you differently.

For instance, if you're say a team like say Bournemouth in the Premier League, a large number of teams, certainly in the top 8 will look at them and consider their own team to be stronger. Because of this they're likely to play attacking formations. Mid-table sides likewise will realise they're stronger on paper and again will attack, but may take a slightly more cautious approach when they're the away team. Lower ranked Premier teams will likely play a balanced formation home and away.

Then let's say by January in your first season, Bournemouth are 5th in the table and have won impressive victories. The AI managers will look at this and realise you shouldn't be underestimated. Teams will be more likely to play a defensive counter based style when coming to play at Bournemouth and be more balanced overall.

Mid and certainly lower sides in the table will play defensively. This means a tactic you had working fine for the entire system is suddenly playing against totally different tactics than in the first half of the season. Many human managers assume that if their tactic is working there's never a need to change it, but fail to take into account the fact the AI will adapt as the season goes on. Tactics however, as said above are not individually worked out.

So the big thing to take from this is that you need to either make small tweaks to the tactic but more importantly I think for FMM is that you need to keep improving the squad each transfer window if you can as the better your team and especially the depth of your squad the more likely your tactic is to remain effective.

So myth or fact.

The Squad Take Time To Gel and Learn a New Tactic

We have all been there, we come up with a new tactic and then make wholesale changes to the squad to suit it only to then start the season slowly. The question is though is that a case of the tactic or squad build not working out or is it a built in feature to the game that means it takes time for players to gel and understand a new tactic?

There are clues in the game that say this may be a fact as we see messages in the match reports saying the team was unfamiliar with the tactic or in a players profile like this one.

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Then on the other hand we see these messages but the team start on fire including the players who are adjusting to life at a new club or new tactic. So how much do these messages effect a teams results compared to the tactic perhaps not being perfect or the squad not suiting the tactic as much as you thought it would?

So myth or fact.

 

Certain Tactics Work for Big Teams and Others are Better in LLM

Logic suggests that certain tactics are going to work better with big teams with top players whilst if your players aren’t as good you will need to adjust your tactics and I don’t think that is a myth at all just common sense. The question is whether it’s a myth that you can’t use the same tactics in the lower leagues that you can with a big team. 

A good tactic can make average players better but in turn good players can make a tactic work. That means if you can build a squad that suits a tactic then in theory that tactic will work at any level of football. As an example you may want to try and play short passing football in League 2 so you need to make sure that you have players that can pass well but of course in League 2 players the number for there passing attribute isn’t going to be as high. In League 2 though a passing attribute of 12 would see a player do very well in that department of the game so if you can build a good squad of players what is there to say you can’t play play passing football in the lower leagues. 

What is your experience though can you get a tactic that works a dream with a top team to work down in the lower leagues?

There we have it, that is the five potential myths that I want you as a community to either say is a fact or a myth in the poll below. I would love to hear your opinions and experiences on these so let me know in the comments below your reasons for answering as you did.

Thanks for reading and all comments are appreciated.

 

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FMM Mythbusters  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. Strikers with high teamwork score less goals

    • Myth
      57
    • Fact
      44
  2. 2. Player traits make a difference to how a player performs

    • Myth
      37
    • Fact
      64
  3. 3. AI learns your tactic

    • Myth
      72
    • Fact
      29
  4. 4. The squad takes time to gel and learn a new tactic

    • Myth
      39
    • Fact
      62
  5. 6. Certain tactics work for big teams and others are better in LLM

    • Myth
      34
    • Fact
      67


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Interesting poll @Foxy. I went with Fact, Fact, Myth, Myth, Fact, but there's a lot of grey in there...

With 1. if the Unselfishness (that's what I'm calling it anyway) part of Teamwork is high, then yes, I believe it's a fact. If it's low, but Work Rate part is high, then it's a myth. I guess that makes the whole thing a myth, and it's not Teamwork itself, it's just the Unselfish part that makes a striker less likely to score. That said, I went with fact, because that's what I've experienced with strikers such as Armstrong who passed it way too much. so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

With 2. I think some player traits make a difference and some don't. For example, Pinamonti (or was it Colidio?) had "Likes to Try To Beat Offside Trap" and was always getting caught offside. The next striker I used didn't have that message and hardly ever got caught offside. I've also found "Shoots from Distance" to be true in many cases. But certainly a lot of them don't seem to make much difference and I don't look at them as much as I used to. 

And with 5, I can't be sure that a big team tactic won't work for LLM, but I have had tactics that worked a treat in LLM but which stopped working as I was promoted up the leagues. Eg: In L2 and lower Long ball with a fast striker means you're top of the league with a bunch of spectacular goals, but when you get to around L1, it stops working because the defenders anticipate the long passes so much better.

Anyway, great, thought provoking poll! 🙂 

 

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I'd have to disagree with the role trait because I've used wingers with the trait "cuts inside" and they actually do that instead of remaining wide to cross the Ball but they don't do it all the time

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I went myth on them all but that’s only based on what I’ve found whilst playing the game.

I’d say on all of my lower league to the top saves I’ve managed to use the same system more or less all the way through the leagues. Of course that doesn’t mean the systems I were using were optimal at lower league but I got the results.

I never actually look at teamwork when looking at players for goal scoring challenges but I have an idea in my head that the game is wanting a decent average number throughout the team for that and a few of the other attributes and if I do have a striker with poor teamwork I’ll then look to make sure my other players have a high number there to balance it out.

I’m pretty sure I’ve worked something out in my head regarding balancing attributes on my current TT. Won’t say too much as I’m ahead on it but I’ve had a few frustrating seasons and I’m almost certain that it was due to all of my trio having a pitiful number for aggression which meant my teams average for that is lowered with them on all on the pitch. I had a few midfielders and even defenders with a low number there and whilst they were great players it wasn’t enough and in the end I had to make sure I got nearly every player on the pitch have a decent number for it to make up for my boys poor numbers. I even got a keeper with high aggression. Might not make much sense to others but I’ve more or less confirmed it for myself with my results.

Fabulous article though and I’ll comment again on the rest of the subjects later otherwise this will turn into a rather lengthy post.

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Thanks for the comments so far guys. I think the traits is the most interesting of the list.

1 hour ago, Dar J said:

I'd have to disagree with the role trait because I've used wingers with the trait "cuts inside" and they actually do that instead of remaining wide to cross the Ball but they don't do it all the time

I don’t tend to use inside forwards so I don’t buy players with the ability to play that role. So for example if I’m buying a wide player I am simply looking for crossing, dribbling and pace and then hopefully good attributes around that as well but those three aren’t main concern.

This would never be a hard and fast rule of course but I would say generally if I player has good crossing he will stay wide and wouldn’t have that trait but if he is good at shooting he may cut inside.

My problem with role traits is that many of them are very hard to prove if they happen or not when we watch the highlights and they have a habit of changing as well for no real reason which is why I tend to ignore them.

My reasoning is that if a player has the ability to play a certain role it is likely he will do what I require him to so if he is an excellent passer with good creativity he is likely to play a lot of killer passes if you have him as a playmaker for example.

Maybe I’m also lazy so I go simply off there attributes and then coach/scout report for hidden stuff like injury proneness.

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Great article. I most interesting part of this is finding out that Ross Barkley’s other nationality is Nigerian 🤨😧

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13 minutes ago, Chazza111 said:

Great article. I most interesting part of this is finding out that Ross Barkley’s other nationality is Nigerian 🤨😧

His grandfather was Nigerian.

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· Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, samhardy said:

Can any fact voter for any of the questions please let me know where it has been proven to be true?

I would love to know.

LOL, no-one biting? 😄

I could go on about how plenty of scientific facts were later proven to be false, or link to scientists who don't even believe in the concept of facts, etc, but... ain't nobody got no time for that.

Basically I treated the poll as if we were being asked whether we believed these things were fact, based on our observations. That's a lot more fun than arguing about whether they are actually facts or whether facts even exist... 😂

Edited by Scratch

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9 minutes ago, Scratch said:

LOL, no-one biting? 😄

I could go on about how plenty of scientific facts were later proven to be false, or link to scientists who don't even believe in the concept of facts, etc, but... ain't nobody got no time for that.

Basically I treated the poll as if we were being asked whether we believed these things were fact, based on our observations. That's a lot more fun than arguing about whether they are actually facts or whether facts even exist... 😂

But none of them are facts! And if facts don't exist, then isn't everything a myth? ;)

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4 minutes ago, samhardy said:

But none of them are facts! And if facts don't exist, then isn't everything a myth? ;)

Not gonna bite. This is a conversation that would be best over a few 🍻.... 😄

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9 hours ago, Foxy said:

This one baffles me as SI themselves have said it’s a myth.

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Yeah, and Cyberdyne Systems said that SkyNet wouldn't become self aware... There's no way to know exactly what an AI can or can't do... 😂

though I did vote myth for this... 

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13 minutes ago, Scratch said:

There's no way to know exactly what an AI can or can't do... 

Apart from in FMM, where they can't seem to do much more than play a striker at left back, a centre half as a complete forward and sign about 6 goalkeepers in one transfer window 😂

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12 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Apart from in FMM, where they can't seem to do much more than play a striker at left back, a centre half as a complete forward and sign about 6 goalkeepers in one transfer window 😂

It's all part of the plan... Play dumb at first, build your power and wait until you're ready, then start winning every game 50-0, take over the phone, upload yourself to the internet, take over the world... 

I mean isn't it obvious that's what happening? There's no way an AI could actually be that bad... 😂

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I think first first phrase "Strikers With High Teamwork Score Less Goals" would be the only one we could test easily in a scientific-like way.

1. Use in-game editor to increase any player teamwork to 20

2. Play and reload same game a few dozen of times

3. Use in-game editor to decrease same player teamwork to 1

4. Play and reload same game a few dozen of times

5. Do the maths

I have no time currently for testing, anyone up for this?

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Gotta find out about this one: 
  1. 2. Player traits make a difference to how a player performs

    • Myth
       
       22
    • Fact
       
       22
 
Looks interesting with 50/50 split on poll right now. I just wonder if this is linked to team instructions especially attacking ones? You could have a ST playing a poacher role with “doesn’t play thru balls “in red on their positional traits page then in the attacking instructions you can select ‘play thru balls’ . So if the ST has it as red and you put it in instructions what will outcome be? Will the player get poor ratings for holding onto the ball when he should pass it ? Maybe bad ratings as his passing gets a negative and he gets bunch passes intercepted? Or does the player and role trait just ignore the red ones and he plays according to your instructions and passes fine with no bad side effects? Can anyone test if the role traits, instructions actually have an effect? It could be positive if role trait green and u give same instructions to match do the players do better ? If someone could test it a bit would help I just don’t have the time to do a deep dive ..
 
Be nice if the creators would chime in on the aspects of the game that aren’t hidden secrets as some are pretty much basics of the game . 👍✌️

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Very interesting @Foxy, I enjoyed this unique take on an article and it really got me thinking! As for my opinions read below :)

1. Yeah I think this is a myth, like you said the teamwork stat isn't all as it seems as we know it's a "hidden combination" stat with workrate. Low teamwork might not mean they're selfish with the ball but with their work rate, say a high press tactic might be worse with a low work rate striker which might lead to less chances, and goals. Sturridge vs Firmino kind of comes to mind, ones the more natural/selfish centre forward while the other is a work rate demon. 

2. Player traits are a myth imo, mainly because we have little evidence they actually do anything but mainly because we know they're tied to a stat spread. If traits were vital or our way to add "player instructions" i think we'd be able to not only influence them but search for them. A "key and important feature" like how your players play wouldn't be hidden in some menu screen you rarely see if it was as vital as dictating play imo, then you have the fact they change on a whim based on stat changes. 

3. Once again a myth as I never once had a tactic randomly stop working, sure I've hit rough patches but I've always found another reason for it. Small tweaks along the way will help but it's vital to continue to improve your squad in the right way, if you know how the tactic clicks and how to get it working you won't run into this issue. 

4. Myth with a hint of fact, mainly because I do think slow starts can be a thing but I don't think it's as bad as people make out. With our Gegen especially I've found it can take a match or two to function but I don't play friendlies and I'd also say in the early game you're still learning your best squad, however if this was a thing big squad rebuilds wouldn't be possible which imo is one of FMMs most fun features. 

5. Myth again as you just need the right players in key positions, like you said you just need to work out what stats are good for that level. The issue comes with promotion though so it might stop working unless you improve as needed, going up the league's will raise the stat bar and challenge so you need to make sure you improve alongside it. 

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Just stumbled across this old past on traits by Marc Vaughan and thought it worth posting here out of interest:

 

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