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Manjus

Help Building a Tactic for a Lone Striker

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I just realised that the reason my WBs haven't made many assists this year is not because the game has changed, it's because I'm playing Defensive. It's also why the Wingers get a lot of assists in my tactic (super great bonus for my assists 1KC).

When Attacking is on the WBs do push forward and the Wingers go inside, and the WB will cross far more often in this scenario. When Defensive is on, the WBs hang back and the Wingers stay wide and then they cross more often.

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17 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I just realised that the reason my WBs haven't made many assists this year is not because the game has changed, it's because I'm playing Defensive. It's also why the Wingers get a lot of assists in my tactic (super great bonus for my assists 1KC).

When Attacking is on the WBs do push forward and the Wingers go inside, and the WB will cross far more often in this scenario. When Defensive is on, the WBs hang back and the Wingers stay wide and then they cross more often.

So what you're saying is Def- little overlap from WBs and Att- much more overlap. Regardless whether you have enabled the specific instruction. Makes sense I guess. 

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@Scratch to add, does that mean that your Wingers score more and assist less when you go attack mode? That could make things interesting. 

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2 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

So what you're saying is Def- little overlap from WBs and Att- much more overlap. Regardless whether you have enabled the specific instruction. Makes sense I guess. 

Yes, that's what I'm seeing... I've been using this tactic all year, but I guess I didn't really see that until now. The reason I saw it was mostly because of this discussion, and partly because I was cursing the wing back for assisting instead Arzani. Then things clicked. LOL...

2 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

@Scratch to add, does that mean that your Wingers score more and assist less when you go attack mode? That could make things interesting. 

That seems to be what's happening, at least for me. So looks like I need to stay in Defensive if I am going to get Arzani to 1K assists.

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24 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I just realised that the reason my WBs haven't made many assists this year is not because the game has changed, it's because I'm playing Defensive. It's also why the Wingers get a lot of assists in my tactic (super great bonus for my assists 1KC).

When Attacking is on the WBs do push forward and the Wingers go inside, and the WB will cross far more often in this scenario. When Defensive is on, the WBs hang back and the Wingers stay wide and then they cross more often.

My IWB’s still seem to offer a bit out wide particularly in the final third on attacking so it’d be interesting to see their behaviour on defensive. Also maybe having IWB’s might force the wingers to stay wider but it’s difficult to tell as although I’ve had the pitch highlights on recently, it’s been on a very fast speed.

I might be able to see how many goals have been going to my striker on a better save as I’ve just used my tactic for the community challenge so will have a look at that later on but I best wait as we are behind with our posting and nobody yet knows about my round 😂

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1 minute ago, Ian said:

My IWB’s still seem to offer a bit out wide particularly in the final third on attacking so it’d be interesting to see their behaviour on defensive. Also maybe having IWB’s might force the wingers to stay wider but it’s difficult to tell as although I’ve had the pitch highlights on recently, it’s been on a very fast speed.

That would be interesting. I should say that all my observations are based on just the goal highlights. I'm not sure what's going on the rest of the time. But at least with the goal highlights, in attacking mode the wing backs are more likely to push up and cross (and assist) and the wingers are more likely to cut inside.

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11 minutes ago, Scratch said:

That seems to be what's happening, at least for me. So looks like I need to stay in Defensive if I am going to get Arzani to 1K assists

This could very well be the observation that "saves" your 1K assist challenge 😉 

So roughly (very roughly, depending on pos. on pitch) when going Attack. Ment. att-minded defenders + def-minded midfielders chip in with more assists. And att-minded midfielders + def-minded forwards with more goals? Even more so with Overload Ment? Downside of course is it becomes more and more imbalanced thus leakier at the back. Tho still something worth experimenting with I think. 

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58 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I just realised that the reason my WBs haven't made many assists this year is not because the game has changed, it's because I'm playing Defensive. It's also why the Wingers get a lot of assists in my tactic (super great bonus for my assists 1KC).

When Attacking is on the WBs do push forward and the Wingers go inside, and the WB will cross far more often in this scenario. When Defensive is on, the WBs hang back and the Wingers stay wide and then they cross more often.

It makes sense. On defensive mentality the team is thinking “defend first” and the Wingbacks are in a much better position than the wingers to do so. On attack they’re willing to push up and the wingers have to drift inside due to overcrowding. The decisions attribute is absolutely key in situations like this imo, “when to go forward? When to hang back etc”

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39 minutes ago, Ian said:

My IWB’s still seem to offer a bit out wide particularly in the final third on attacking so it’d be interesting to see their behaviour on defensive. 

This whole discussion is increasing my appetite for proper experiments in FMM20. 

Do IFs on def. mentality cut less inside and act more like Wingers? Do Wingers on att. mentality cut more inside and act more like IFs? Can the latter be prevented by turning Wingers into APs on flank as to force them out wide? If so, how do WBs react having not Wingers/IFs but APs in front of them? 

Just thinking out loud here. I may throw in a couple experiments come Nov. to keep things fresh 🧐

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So thought I'd try switching between Defensive mentality and Attacking mentality, with nothing else changed to see what the Wing Backs do. Here's what I found:

Defensive, CM in possession, WB stays back:

image.png.246fa3144b1d3ca83f8744825aa8145d.png

 

Attacking, CM in possession, WB pushes up:

image.png.3e2d3b1000947560bf41d38465cc37d2.png

 

Defensive, ball in the box, WB stays back:

image.png.90f9c8fcee089b661ff4b546c569a1ec.png

 

Attacking, ball in the box, WB right up there in the box too:

image.png.ef390157ee2e6bc283875f8cba539d60.png

 

So I guess that proves that, at least for my combination of instructions, players and positions.

Edited by Scratch

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38 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

This could very well be the observation that "saves" your 1K assist challenge 😉 

Yeah, it's the only reason I thought I had a chance in the first place, because I got more assists than before this year. Because of this! 

39 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

This could very well be the observation that "saves" your 1K assist challenge 😉 

So roughly (very roughly, depending on pos. on pitch) when going Attack. Ment. att-minded defenders + def-minded midfielders chip in with more assists. And att-minded midfielders + def-minded forwards with more goals? Even more so with Overload Ment? Downside of course is it becomes more and more imbalanced thus leakier at the back. Tho still something worth experimenting with I think. 

Yep, that matches my observations. 

8 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

This whole discussion is increasing my appetite for proper experiments in FMM20. 

Win! I think this whole thread is the one I've enjoyed most all year! 😄

9 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

This whole discussion is increasing my appetite for proper experiments in FMM20. 

Do IFs on def. mentality cut less inside and act more like Wingers? Do Wingers on att. mentality cut more inside and act more like IFs? Can the latter be prevented by turning Wingers into APs on flank as to force them out wide? If so, how do WBs react having not Wingers/IFs but APs in front of them? 

Just thinking out loud here. I may throw in a couple experiments come Nov. to keep things fresh 🧐

Yeah, lots to experiment with. Good times! 😄

added 0 minutes later
31 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

It makes sense. On defensive mentality the team is thinking “defend first” and the Wingbacks are in a much better position than the wingers to do so. On attack they’re willing to push up and the wingers have to drift inside due to overcrowding. The decisions attribute is absolutely key in situations like this imo, “when to go forward? When to hang back etc”

Yeah, this for sure!

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The ideas bounced in this thread and the discussions have been really stimulating. One think I miss most is BBM in DM position. That was pretty enjoyable and one where I got the most out of Goretzka on FMM 2018.

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I have really enjoyed this thread. I've used the points from everyone to create my own tactics(the first time I would do that actually). It's a flat 352 defensive mentality with narrow width. I'm amazed at the results I'm getting. Rotherham, Atalanta, Crystal Palace and Leicester won their respective leagues with the tactics.

No more scouting for tactics on the vibe. This has been the best thread by far on the Vibe. Thank you guys

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On 12/10/2019 at 18:13, Scratch said:

So the striker got 61% of the shots, 69% of the shots on target and 70% of the goals.

Interesting % to focus on, and that's of course all that matters when building tactics for a lone striker. Never really had my striker stats "numbered" like that, more like a rough estimate on his total team goals, until this discussion.

Just be careful tho as percentages can be deceiving at times. Scoring 100 team gls/season with your guy netting 50 puts him on 50%, fewer team gls essentially means higher % for your striker if he nets the same amount. So it could be a deceiving number is all I'm saying really. But is does make a good platform to build on. 

I've been doing a few experiments since and it kinda changed my thinking on certain things. At least more than I did in the past. I'm now at that point where I'm focusing on anyone but my striker. How do I make my midfield/flanks score less while maintaining the same amount of team gls/season. So not necessarily score more, a little less even is fine, but to single out my striker even more. Things such as set ups with no APs or BBMs who have the tendency to support the attack (as well as steal goals) while maintaining balance all around. Basically, keeping my midfielders far enough from the opposition's goal (to avoid long shots) and in order to "force" an assist/pass. Also, having my striker deep enough to collect the ball when necessary and have no teammates on either side to pass the ball to, thus forcing a dribble or long shot. It does take a different type of striker with different set of skills for either tactic. 

Creating formations for all sorts of purposes and challenges can be so much fun. 

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8 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

How do I make my midfield/flanks score less while maintaining the same amount of team gls/season. So not necessarily score more, a little less even is fine, but to single out my striker even more. Things such as set ups with no APs or BBMs who have the tendency to support the attack (as well as steal goals) while maintaining balance all around. Basically, keeping my midfielders far enough from the opposition's goal (to avoid long shots) and in order to "force" an assist/pass. Also, having my striker deep enough to collect the ball when necessary and have no teammates on either side to pass the ball to, thus forcing a dribble or long shot. It does take a different type of striker with different set of skills for either tactic. 

This is where mentality comes into play. I’ve been experimenting with a 4-1-4-1 flat midfield so that all of the team apart from the striker are far enough from goal to not try and score themselves thus forcing the striker to become the main outlet. The thing is, the match engine is so bloody terrible that my results are shocking 😅

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10 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

This is where mentality comes into play. I’ve been experimenting with a 4-1-4-1 flat midfield so that all of the team apart from the striker are far enough from goal to not try and score themselves thus forcing the striker to become the main outlet. The thing is, the match engine is so bloody terrible that my results are shocking 😅

I'm having mild success atm, re my reply to @Scratch, % gls to striker is higher partly because fewer team goals. But as you say forcing striker to become main outlet is clearly improving. Tho not yet to the point where it's become a consistent set up. It takes time to find the perfect combination of roles + mentality as well as the type of players that fit those roles. 

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I said I would put some stats up from my system in regards to goals going to the striker and whilst the season for this isn’t posted I feel as long as I don’t give out any team or player information then I’m not really spoiling anything so here goes.

67 games

203 goals

90 goals from strikers

44.33% of goals to striker

Main striker was good but not a world beater and the backups were decent too but none of them had very good aerial. I think with top top strikers and great squad I’m guessing we’ll be looking at around 50% going to striker. I think for my system that the best approach is to go for more goals in total and the striker quality really seems to make a massive difference as with a lesser striker I just find more goals go to other players which was the case when Kean got really old in that save.

Theres loads of stuff I want to test further but I’m probably going to hold off until FMM20 now.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Ian said:

67 games

203 goals

90 goals from strikers

44.33% of goals to striker

I feel that % should be higher to what you mention later, at least 50+%, with better teammates. Like you, my general approach is to increase total team gls and striker gls with it. Have spent months/years doing that. Now tho, due to this talk, I'm taking a different direction and focusing on decreasing the gls in (A)CM strata yet maintaining total team gls. Right now my DLPs are doing a decent job in assisting and not scoring. WMs over Wingers for more assists vs gls works OK, but overall not yet happy with the consistency of the formation. 

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2 hours ago, BatiGoal said:

WMs over Wingers for more assists

Have you used wingers on the ML/R line? I’ve been using something similar with early crosses turned on. The thing is, most teams just tend to sit back and soak up everything so there’s absolutely no space behind the defence. Space is in front so I’m thinking of experimenting with a DLF to pull defence out of position hopefully. Not sure how it’ll work out on the engine though. Not good I’m guessing 😅

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Like @Iani have loved using IWB’s this year for a lone striker formation. If played with wingers they tend to allow the wingers to do their job whilst also being a threat from the flank just inside the opponents half or drifting inside and joining the attacking third from a more central position. 

I’ve been using DW’s on the ML/R line with some success, although in a two up top formation for a DT. The Alaba, TAA, Alves types are fantastic used in this role. 
 

Great thread to read. 

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11 hours ago, Nucleus said:

Have you used wingers on the ML/R line?

I have yes, and it's made a difference in a couple of my set-ups, creating pretty much the same number of assists as in AML/R but fewer goals. 

Right now I'm running a few identical test saves (Wingers vs WMs) to see how WMs react in my 3-5-1-1 formation. I really like their behaviour I must say. The advantage they have over Wingers is that they're even less inclined to go forward for the ocassional goal as they're more defence-oriented. And to up their assist tally I've been trying to get them on the ball more often via passing focus via flanks. It's holding up well for now. Not much different to your typical WB I suppose, but I feel it strengthens midfield and improves possession.

9 hours ago, smoggy90 said:

I’ve been using DW’s on the ML/R line with some success,

Ultimately I'd like to have DWs assist as much as regular Wingers with no gls. I think, can't say for sure, but my guess is they're "programmed" to think defensive support first and out of the three roles W, WM, DW they're the least likely to be in a position to go for a shot on goal so imo they'd make the best option on ML/R spot for lone striker tactics.

Edited by BatiGoal

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9 hours ago, smoggy90 said:

I’ve been using DW’s on the ML/R 

The in game description of this role fits perfectly in a gegenpressing style tactic tbf. I’ve used them sporadically but always find myself drifting back to traditional wingers

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Great discussion everyone. Don't really have time to respond right now (supposed to be somewhere), but will come back to it later. In the meantime, I just posted a career update that included this, but I thought I'd post it here too as it's more relevant here (forgive the politics jokes):

Quote

As I said last time, my tactics turned out to be ideal for both challenges. This particularly goes for the assist challenge - most of the assists are coming from the wingers and mostly from Arzani.

I made a small mistake this year by playing stronger players on the opposite flank from Arzani. They started getting more assists than he did! Makes sense I guess. Once I realised it, I decided to make sure the left winger was good, but not good enough to take too many assists away from Arzani.

 For those who are interested, here are some percentages:

  • The striker position scored 128 of our 190 goals, which at 67% is fairly consistent with previous seasons.

  • The wingers accounted for 126 of our 170 assists, which is 74%. Of course this includes Arzani's corners, which were both numerous and not counted, but it does show the tactics prioritise wing play (despite not using the down the right instruction).

  • Right wingers accounted for 102 assists, while the Left only accounted for 24. I believe this is down to dissatisfaction amongst the general populace (and the fact I consciously played left wingers who were not as good as Arzani).

  • Arzani himself accounted for 56% of our assists, which down to his pure talent (making Australia great again!). Oh and the corners.

Arzani got 96 assists! It was stupid amazing. 

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