Chat Central midfielders with low "teamwork".

[Pista]

I have these four attacking midfielders, you can see them in the screenshots. All of them seem pretty good and with good potential. I've had them for one season, in the 2nd Bundesliga. And all of them played quite poorly considering their stats. Their average ratings were somewhere between 7.1x and 7.4x. and they had very few assists. I had an inside forward that not only scored more goals than all of them together about but also assisted more than any one of them. So I wonder if the issue isn't maybe their poor teamwork. I mean, for a playmaker teamwork seems pretty important, now that I think about it. I chose to ignore it at first because of their overall stats but now I think maybe I was mistaken. I usually play a flat three in midfield, one BWM and the other two as APs, sometimes one AP and one CM. The team played well overall and I managed to promote quite comfortably but still, this thing bothers me a bit.

[BatiGoal]

If you're playing two strikers it would make sense, but I think you're playing a single striker with two IFs on the flanks. In this case I understand your concern. But still if you say this.. 

2 hours ago, Pista said:

The team played well overall and I managed to promote quite comfortably but still, this thing bothers me a bit.

.. there's no problem. But you're just wondering, I get it. It's really hard to make sense of the assists imo. At times I'm baffled as to why I get so few assists from this guy and so many from that guy. In the formations I've created it's just so random I've stopped trying to figure out a pattern. What I think is happening in your case is that your APs are simply passing to your IFs or one of the two strikers if you're playing a pair up front. So they'd be assisting the assist guy so to speak. It explains the AvR of 7.1-7.4 which isn't great but certainly not terrible. In fact, the attribute numbers they're sporting I'd expect them to get no better than this AvR. 

If you insist on trying to get their assist numbers up perhaps you could try passing focus through center with through balls to your lone forward. Also, IFs are often used as link players between midfield and strikers, be it in the AP, IF or W role, so eliminating this step should get those APs extra assists. However, this means you're changing style of play and given the fact your results are good at the moment I don't recommend doing that at this point.

Unless you're trying to up those AP assists for a challenge, I'd say never mind their numbers and their AvR, the results speak for themselves. 

[Pista]

Yes, I play with two IF and one striker. Or sometimes one IF and one AP on the other side. And no, it's not for a challenge.

Maybe one cause for the lack of assists from my APs is that I didn't have a particularly good striker. At least not one that played consistently well. Of course, it is also possible that the reason why my strikers failed to perform consistently is because none of my APs performed well enough... hmm...🤔 Unfortunately I cannot test this in the coming season as I lack the necessary wage budget to get a really good forward. Still, I am a bit disappointed, I hoped that at least one of these APs would stand out more, it would have been easier to choose one or two to focus on and maybe sell the others. As it is now, they all seem about the same, not too bad but also nothing to write home about.

I had an idea regarding the "teamwork" skill. I went through all the possibles offensive roles in the "focus role" section of training, like AP/BTB/DLP/CM, and none of them highlighted the "teamwork" skill (in the Settings section the "player attribute highlight" is set to "trained role"). So I guess it isn't considered so important for a midfielder after all...

[BatiGoal]

On 19/03/2020 at 20:38, Pista said:

Still, I am a bit disappointed, I hoped that at least one of these APs would stand out more, it would have been easier to choose one or two to focus on and maybe sell the others. As it is now, they all seem about the same, not too bad but also nothing to write home about.

When faced with a dilemma such as yours I usually pair up the two CMs that make a strong unit. So I'd avoid picking similar players. I'd pair them up based on the skills the other's lacking, to complement one another. I like going with the AP style of player - Passing, Creativity, Decisions, Movement - and the CM player - Tackling, Positioning, Aerial, Strength - and only look at Teamwork and Stamina if I can't make a choice and these two attributes really stand out. 

For the above players I'd pair up Puig and Jones in CM, keep Maroni as their sub and use Capanni as a Winger. Don't think I'd sell any of them at this point tbh. 

[Pista]

1 hour ago, BatiGoal said:

When faced with a dilemma such as yours I usually pair up the two CMs that make a strong unit. So I'd avoid picking similar players. I'd pair them up based on the skills the other's lacking, to complement one another. I like going with the AP style of player - Passing, Creativity, Decisions, Movement - and the CM player - Tackling, Positioning, Aerial, Strength - and only look at Teamwork and Stamina if I can't make a choice and these two attributes really stand out. 

For the above players I'd pair up Puig and Jones in CM, keep Maroni as their sub and use Capanni as a Winger. Don't think I'd sell any of them at this point tbh. 

Yeah, I try to do the same as long as I have the required players. Mix their skills to complement each other. Unfortunately for Puig, he started the season poorly and, based also on his fragile physique and the shitty previous season, he was the first to be shown the door. 20 millions to Southampton. I know he is supposed to have max potential but he never really showed any of it. Capanni, as fragile as he is, at least has good pace for when I play him on the wing. Puig is so far my biggest disappointment. 

 

I think it's interesting that none of these players performed well when used as APs in a flat three midfield. Maybe it's my lack of a really good forward or it's my tactics, I don't know, but all of them played worse than I expected. And it's the same this season. Many times, even when playing really well, the AP has the least amount of passes, not to mention key passes, of which there are usually none. The other two midfielders, one BWM and one CM, both have more passes and usually more key passes as well. And it doesn't matter if I try two APs + 1 BWM, or 1 AP + 1 BWM + 1 CM, it's the same. The APs usually play poorly compared to the others and have fewer passes. Last season, Curtis Jones had the most assists of them all, and the best average rating, while playing mostly as AP on the wing.

 

So now I just play one BWM and two CMs..... And after every game the AI complains about the lack of forward runs from midfield..... and I barely score any goals, a mere 15 in the first 13 games..... But overall the team plays pretty damn well since I am currently sitting in 3rd place... so I probably shouldn't complain... 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Pista

[DanM]

You mentioned you struggle to get an AP involved in the game / creating key passes...

... if you’d like, perhaps you can share some screenshots of a match in open play so we can see the opponents’ positioning vs your players. E.g. a match where the opposition plays an DMC (e.g. 4141) AND also screenshots from an a match where they play without a DMC (e.g. 442).

why? In a 4231 formation (with wingers, IWBs, and BBMs), I find my AMC is marked, while one of my MC is completely free - see copy/paste text below from another forum post I just made.

“if ... the opposition play with no DMC, then my AMC is typically marked by one of their MC, which leaves my MC (left) in loads of space. Being a BBM, they often ‘create’ a lot of chances. Sometimes a near 30 year old Foden is moreeffective in that BBM / MC (left) position than in AMC!“

If you can show us some screenshots, though it won’t help with their teamwork specifically, we can figure out what’s going on tactically.

your choice!