Tactics Klopp's Gegenpress 2019/20 4-1-2-2-1

[Gammamammam]

Now first thing to clear up is that the basis for the tactic was based on this post which had only the only in game evidence of a youtube plug to their youtube channel 

However I've gone a bit further and actually adjusted to the formation and tactical roles that Klopp has been enforcing this season (at least before the huge standstill) thanks to Statman Dave's video anaylsis on youtube and some extra assistance by tifo football and Football Made simple on what makes Klopp's liverpool tick

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Gammamammam

[Gammamammam]

The fixtures themselves tell a very shocking story in all honesty 

added 0 minutes later

Just take a look at the goals conceded, even for a big club it was impressive 

[Gammamammam]

My main issue is that I'm uncertain as to how to get the most from my defensive midfielder, he can't play as dlp because the style didn't suit it at the beginning of the season so I changed to a dm a couple games in but neither Fabinho or Henderson improved playing that role, I tried BWM to the end of the season but again still I'm not sure how to play my Defensive Midfielder without the individual player suffering  

added 0 minutes later

I'm also gonna try with Norwich to see if it works with the bottom of the table clubs

[LFCMO_11]

I can suggest maybe pushing your wing backs up and making fabinho an Anchor, so that way sometimes in game your formation almost becomes a 3-4-3 where you have Van Dijk, Fabinho,  and Gomez as defense, your midfield would be Robertson, Milner, Hendo, Trent, and forwards, Mane, Firmino, Salah.

If you decide to give it a go let me know! 

 

[Gammamammam]

56 minutes ago, LFCMO_11 said:

I can suggest maybe pushing your wing backs up and making fabinho an Anchor, so that way sometimes in game your formation almost becomes a 3-4-3 where you have Van Dijk, Fabinho,  and Gomez as defense, your midfield would be Robertson, Milner, Hendo, Trent, and forwards, Mane, Firmino, Salah.

If you decide to give it a go let me know! 

 

That sounds like a fantastic idea thank you, that may also help me figure out how to make this formation work for Norwich too cause they keep having really poor form under me 

[AndersJ]

Hello and thanks for sharing

Is the thought behind the tactic rightfully understood that you want all your play on the flanks, avoiding your great bbm players to create too much in the games?

Did you try other settings than counter?

Did you try other front roles than a T - does he score many goals or drift away?

IF you try it with Norwich  - maybe you will need to have more of the possesion so that the oppos wont have the ball ? and maybe you will have a hard time finding IFs in norwich with shooting good enough?

[Schwantz34]

6 hours ago, Gammamammam said:

My main issue is that I'm uncertain as to how to get the most from my defensive midfielder, he can't play as dlp because the style didn't suit it at the beginning of the season so I changed to a dm a couple games in but neither Fabinho or Henderson improved playing that role, I tried BWM to the end of the season but again still I'm not sure how to play my Defensive Midfielder without the individual player suffering  

added 0 minutes later

I'm also gonna try with Norwich to see if it works with the bottom of the table clubs

The DLP/BWM/DM position is broken and has been for a few years now. It's not your tactic it's a long standing problem within the actual game. 

[LFCMO_11]

27 minutes ago, Schwantz34 said:

The DLP/BWM/DM position is broken and has been for a few years now. It's not your tactic it's a long standing problem within the actual game. 

Every FMM that comes out I hope they fix this problem but they never do, I really hope they take more fan ideas for FMM21 👍

[Gammamammam]

12 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

The DLP/BWM/DM position is broken and has been for a few years now. It's not your tactic it's a long standing problem within the actual game. 

I know it tends to be broken but I've been having a lot of luck with deep lying play makers and defensive midfielders this update so I'd hoped there was a semi-decent improvement but I guess not

[Gammamammam]

12 hours ago, AndersJ said:

Hello and thanks for sharing

Is the thought behind the tactic rightfully understood that you want all your play on the flanks, avoiding your great bbm players to create too much in the games?

Did you try other settings than counter?

Did you try other front roles than a T - does he score many goals or drift away?

IF you try it with Norwich  - maybe you will need to have more of the possesion so that the oppos wont have the ball ? and maybe you will have a hard time finding IFs in norwich with shooting good enough?

I wanted to avoid play making through the midfield because in real life Klopp instructs the full backs to do most of the play making and the two midfielders tend to be 'shuttlers' so I find BBM to do that role pretty well

I haven't tried any other mentatilities to be honest so I'm unsure how any changes could affect the team tbh

I have tried other roles but I always find trequartista to do best fsr + it's firmino's real life role anyway to drop deep

Perhaps but I did find narrowing the width helped me grind out better results. Perhaps their shooting isn't good enough however I'd still use IF as that is how Mane and Salah still play regardless - maybe it's reckless but oh well

[Gammamammam]

It works for Norwich with the admendents suggested by @LFCMO_11 , However I did sell or loan out all players that had less than 12 pace and signed Josh Onomah, Harrison Reed, Scott Sinclair and Henri Lansbury to plug the holes that had opened up

[LFCMO_11]

Looks good mate! And great job with those signings too, all some really good bargain buys 

[DanM]

Thanks for sharing. That’s a fascinating results with Liverpool: fantastic defense record, yet quite few goals scored. Love the use of a Treq with IFs, I’ve not done that yet.

Early in the season you seemed to score 2 or 3 most games, then later in the season you’re typically winning 1-0. Is this right, and if so what do you think made that difference (tactical change, injuries, etc)?

Also agree with @LFCMO_11 so glad you tried out an anchor - especially if the opposition plays 2 ST (e.g. 442) then a BWM or DM moves into midfield too often, exposing your 2 CB, while an anchor sits in front of them blocking off those central passing lanes.

As you are not scoring that much, if the opposition is playing super defensively against you (e.g. 4141), then typically no need for an anchor, as the 2 CB (of the quality you have) should cope with 1 opposition ST. Can either have as a DLP / DM or move that player further forward (AMC?!). EDIT - though an AMC would interfere with your ST/Treq. Hmmm...

Am interested to hear your thoughts...

Edited April 3, 2020 by DanM

[Gammamammam]

Yeah I'm not entirely sure what happened to results, I didn't change tactics much at all after a few games, some games I would take the defense off commited tackling to normal tackling in hope that my team would be clever enough to develop traps because I know that Liverpool weren't so gung ho about pressing but I don't think it worked as well tbh, perhaps the drop off in results may just be tiredness and the AI figuring out which managers should be able to beat me.

I reckon a DM an assymetrical system might be able to get a AM to work, maybe a DM or Anchor  combined with a BBM on the other side, probably putting that midfielder on trent's side. Then maybe a Shadow Striker could work with the trequartista or maybe even a DLP I just don't know how the DLP would play cause it struggled when I changed the Trequartista to it during the start of the season too. idk it's worth working testing

added 0 minutes later

Thank you for the idea mate

10 hours ago, DanM said:

Thanks for sharing. That’s a fascinating results with Liverpool: fantastic defense record, yet quite few goals scored. Love the use of a Treq with IFs, I’ve not done that yet.

Early in the season you seemed to score 2 or 3 most games, then later in the season you’re typically winning 1-0. Is this right, and if so what do you think made that difference (tactical change, injuries, etc)?

Also agree with @LFCMO_11 so glad you tried out an anchor - especially if the opposition plays 2 ST (e.g. 442) then a BWM or DM moves into midfield too often, exposing your 2 CB, while an anchor sits in front of them blocking off those central passing lanes.

As you are not scoring that much, if the opposition is playing super defensively against you (e.g. 4141), then typically no need for an anchor, as the 2 CB (of the quality you have) should cope with 1 opposition ST. Can either have as a DLP / DM or move that player further forward (AMC?!). EDIT - though an AMC would interfere with your ST/Treq. Hmmm...

Am interested to hear your thoughts...

 

 

[Teslim Sanusi]

Tried it but my DM keeps getting out of position and the players get tired easily

Edited June 7, 2020 by Teslim Sanusi

[Gammamammam]

Try changing the DM to anchor and what's the average stamina of your players?

[zorderxx]

On 02/04/2020 at 21:40, Gammamammam said:

Now first thing to clear up is that the basis for the tactic was based on this post which had only the only in game evidence of a youtube plug to their youtube channel 

However I've gone a bit further and actually adjusted to the formation and tactical roles that Klopp has been enforcing this season (at least before the huge standstill) thanks to Statman Dave's video anaylsis on youtube and some extra assistance by tifo football and Football Made simple on what makes Klopp's liverpool tick

 

 

 

who

who was your top scorer? IF or T?

[Gammamammam]

Gonna be completely honest mate, no idea. I've had loads of saves since April, sorry 😕

 

[obdz]

Hi,

So you're playing direct counter attacking, why not go wide?

And why did you set the defense and engaging so high up when you're playing counter? Why not at least balanced so you have a chance to counter?

And what about overlap? This is usually for a possession attacking plan because you need to wait for an overlap, but you're playing direct counter attack with a fast tempo that you won't have a chance to find an overlap.

Thanks

[Schwantz34]

8 minutes ago, obdz said:

Hi,

So you're playing direct counter attacking, why not go wide?

And why did you set the defense and engaging so high up when you're playing counter? Why not at least balanced so you have a chance to counter?

And what about overlap? This is usually for a possession attacking plan because you need to wait for an overlap, but you're playing direct counter attack with a fast tempo that you won't have a chance to find an overlap.

Thanks

The tactic was successful, that's probably your answer. Why change it if it's working well?

Edited August 18, 2020 by Schwantz34

[obdz]

1 minute ago, Schwantz34 said:

The tactic was successful, that's probably your answer. Why change it if it's working well?

I only played one match and won against a very weak team; #22 Sky Bet Championship, so can't confirm that it is working yet.

[Schwantz34]

3 minutes ago, obdz said:

I only played one match and won against a very weak team; #22 Sky Bet Championship, so can't confirm that it is working yet.

Like any tactic it won't work for everyone and getting players with the right attributes is key.