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Scratch

Tactics The Sniper - A 4-3-2-1 Defensive Tactic (Mega Assists)

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After many DM requests, I've decided to post the tactic I use in all my 1KC attempts, including my 2KC + Assists 1KC career.

NOTE: This is not a tactic that will help you win with an average team. This is a tactic that will direct assists to the wingers and goals to the striker - once you have a very strong team.

 

Formation:

the-sniper-tactic-01.jpg.3feba391e14d4d4e748952ee33972598.jpg

 

Instructions:

Spoiler

the-sniper-tactic-02.jpg.9a739b2466d545b4e8fe01e48db5628d.jpg

the-sniper-tactic-03.jpg.6c94a5ebb3d5ba24f4c43702d7278f7b.jpg

the-sniper-tactic-04.jpg.e65c9a2549b8cfe1583ecb47be6659d8.jpg

 

Notes:

  • As mentioned above, you need to have a relatively strong side for this tactic to work.
  • In particular you need wingers with a very high Crossing attribute and a striker with a very high Aerial attribute - the main reason it works is that it maximises the number of crosses coming in to the striker's head. 
  • It doesn't work against every opposing tactic (especially overly defensive ones), so you need to have a more attacking alternative tactic you can switch to. The stronger your players, the more likely it will work regardless of the opponents tactics though.
  • It's not particularly consistent (I don't think any tactics are anymore). When my team is at it's peak, I can win some games 5-0 or 6-0, then have a couple where I only win 1-0. 
  • There are other tactics out there that will get you a lot more goals. This one excels in a) getting a lot of assists to the wingers; and b) getting the majority of goals to be scored by the striker. 
  • If I'm trying to get a high assists score, then I will make the opposing winger a little weaker, as it seems play will come to the stronger winger's side more often. I also put the strongest midfielder in the CM role on that side. 
  • Personally I have always found that the right winger gets more assists than the left, but that may just be the players I've used.
  • You might be tempted to set Passing Focus to the side of your primary provider rather than Mixed, but I could never get that to work. If you tell the game to go to that side, it seems the opponents shut it down. If you leave it as Mixed, the game organically sends it down the sides (without it being shutdown). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • There are more details on how and why this tactic works in the lone striker tactic thread, but it's across multiple of posts.

 

Disclaimers:

  • This is provided as a take it or leave it tactic. It works for me. If it works for you, great! If it doesn't, sorry, but I can't help you make it work.
  • Note: challenges have a "you must use your own tactic" rule, so you can't just take this tactic and use it on a 1KC, etc. You can use it for inspiration for your own tactic however. 

 

Anyway, I hope it's of some use to people.

 

Edited by Scratch

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After reading your 1kc with Celtic, i always wondered how you made a defensive tactic work so well. 

The amount of times i tried to re-create what I imagined you had going on, turns out I was actually only a couple of player roles out to be fair (had 1xbbm and 1xbwm) instead of CMs. 


Rare to see someone sharing a tactic after so much challenge success but cheers Scratch, means at least to me i was on the right track!

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2 hours ago, Jsavfc said:

After reading your 1kc with Celtic, i always wondered how you made a defensive tactic work so well. 

The amount of times i tried to re-create what I imagined you had going on, turns out I was actually only a couple of player roles out to be fair (had 1xbbm and 1xbwm) instead of CMs. 


Rare to see someone sharing a tactic after so much challenge success but cheers Scratch, means at least to me i was on the right track!

Thanks mate. Though honestly the key to those big scores isn't so much the tactic, as it is the fact that I had a world class squad at Celtic. 😄

That said, I guess the tactic does have some effect - for eg, I never use BBMs in a 1KC as I find they pinch too many goals from the striker.

Also, with the BBM coming back to get the ball, it changes the dynamic a little. With the tactic above, the main path out of the back line is via the WBs, who take it forward, then either pass forward to the W or inside to the CM (who often passes on to the W). I have some nice gifs of that in the tactic for a lone striker thread linked to above. Let me grab them: 

Spoiler

fmm1.gif

fmm2.gif

So the ball is pushed to the flanks and it seems to stay there. Once you introduce a BBM or a BPD or someone in the DMC position, you probably lose that (at least some of the time). 

The CMs just sort of sit there, get the ball from the WBs and pass it on... Sometimes they go to the AP and that's fine (although if the AP is getting too many shots in a match, I might change them to a CM or even BWM for the rest of the game). But mostly it's on to the wingers.

I never used to use CMs at all, but I remember someone said they were under-rated and I tried them out and in the end they became an important part of the tactic! So I like people sharing what they are doing, it's a great way to learn and get ideas etc.

I've just been a little reluctant to share this one, because inevitably it won't work for some people for whatever reason and there have been cases of people getting frustrated about that etc. Fair enough I guess, but I don't particularly want to have to deal with that sort of response!

I don't mind sharing in discussions like this though, that's what makes Vibe great! 🙂

 

Edited by Scratch

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Did you ever try to experiment using the same method, but with a two-up-top?

My thinking is, if you have found a way to get the ball majority of the time being played down the wing, if you slipped a CM into a TM role, and had equally good players out wide, 

Might give it a go for a DT (would that be classed as my own formation if im changing the above? - if not, would be good to see if my idea makes a difference anyway)

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24 minutes ago, Jsavfc said:

Did you ever try to experiment using the same method, but with a two-up-top?

My thinking is, if you have found a way to get the ball majority of the time being played down the wing, if you slipped a CM into a TM role, and had equally good players out wide, 

Might give it a go for a DT (would that be classed as my own formation if im changing the above? - if not, would be good to see if my idea makes a difference anyway)

Haha, yeah I tried it (in my current career which is a DT), but won't tell you how it went because of the next bit.

I really don't know exactly where the line is with the 'own formations' rule. These are my feelings on it (but don't know if everyone agrees):

I think the intent of the rule is to stop people copying and pasting tactics and then getting big scores without putting any effort in. That's clearly not okay. But beyond that, if someone is trying things out, borrowing ideas from others, but working it into their system, that's fine - they are putting effort into it.

Also sometimes, two people will end up creating tactics that are identical (or almost identical). To me, that's fine as long as one hasn't flat out copied the other. I mean someone could arrive at the same tactic as this one independently and just because I posted it here first shouldn't mean they can never use it. It's not like copyright or something! 🙂

In this specific case (in my mind anyway), you've clearly done lots of testing on your own and arrived at a very similar place independently. If you take those ideas, along with some from here, and turn it into new tactic (ie a two up front), I think that's probably fine. To me the key is that you are putting effort into it, not just taking a tactic and using it without thought. And it wouldn't be the same as mine anyway. 

So I think it's fine, but it might be worth checking with whoever owns the challenge. For a DT, I think that will be Mr @Foxy...

 

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2 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Haha, yeah I tried it (in my current career which is a DT), but won't tell you how it went because of the next bit.

I really don't know exactly where the line is with the 'own formations' rule. These are my feelings on it (but don't know if everyone agrees):

I think the intent of the rule is to stop people copying and pasting tactics and then getting big scores without putting any effort in. That's clearly not okay. But beyond that, if someone is trying things out, borrowing ideas from others, but working it into their system, that's fine - they are putting effort into it.

Also sometimes, two people will end up creating tactics that are identical (or almost identical). To me, that's fine as long as one hasn't flat out copied the other. I mean someone could arrive at the same tactic as this one independently and just because I posted it here first shouldn't mean they can never use it. It's not like copyright or something! 🙂

In this specific case (in my mind anyway), you've clearly done lots of testing on your own and arrived at a very similar place independently. If you take those ideas, along with some from here, and turn it into new tactic (ie a two up front), I think that's probably fine. To me the key is that you are putting effort into it, not just taking a tactic and using it without thought. And it wouldn't be the same as mine anyway. 

So I think it's fine, but it might be worth checking with whoever owns the challenge. For a DT, I think that will be Mr @Foxy...

 

Yeah, my issue has always been the player roles. I know what formation i'd like to play, using what players i have. I get most of the instructions, to an extent of the style of play i want (eg - attacking/counter, smaller teams - long ball is a god send ha)

But struggle with which roles are best matched with others. 

Hopefully Foxy comes in and clears it up. Didnt mean to hijack this thread so apologies. 

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28 minutes ago, Jsavfc said:

Yeah, my issue has always been the player roles. I know what formation i'd like to play, using what players i have. I get most of the instructions, to an extent of the style of play i want (eg - attacking/counter, smaller teams - long ball is a god send ha)

But struggle with which roles are best matched with others. 

Hopefully Foxy comes in and clears it up. Didnt mean to hijack this thread so apologies. 

All good. Yeah, getting roles which work together is a bit hit and miss. Actually for me that's true of tactics as a whole.

I didn't sit down with a pen and pater and design that tactic. I sort of tweaked it on the go over a few years. Sometimes a tweak was an informed thing/educated guess (eg all the other players are scoring too much, what if I keep them further down the pitch by playing Defensive), but mostly it was trial and error of random things that turned out to work better and even using ideas I got from other people (like starting to use CMs). 

With the roles in particular, I don't think any of my choices were pure inspiration on my part. And the whole theory of how it works it's way down the side due to the roles I use - I came up with the theory afterwards! 😄

I was always going to use Ws as that was a fundamental of the tactic, based on previous iterations of it and the whole Aerial 20 in a cereal box thing (ie so easy to get Aerial 20 when FMM19 first came out). I used WBs because I wanted them to be attacking, but actually they work more like FBs in this tactic, because they stay back when Defensive is on, so I lucked into that behaviour. And I used CMs because someone said they worked well and I thought I'd give them a go.

I didn't decide all that at once, it was a bit here and a bit there, each time improving it. And one day I went heck this is working well and then I worked out why and noticed the pattern... 🤣

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36 minutes ago, Liisandro said:

hat is the tactic you used in your celtic? Or did you use this tactic for the same?

Not quite sure what you mean by "Or did you use this tactic for the same"? 

Anyway, I've used this tactic on many careers, including:

  • 2KC (Unuvar) + Assists 1KC (Vignato) at Celtic
  • 5 Season Heroes: Chuba Apkom (goals) and Villa (assists) at PAOK
  • Late Bloomer Andy Carroll and 5 Season Hero Assister Pavon at LA Galaxy
  • Frenchy Toons with Gouri and Thuram swapping the striker role and St Maximum and Diaby as wingers 

Actually I used it for every career I've posted on here this year, except for the one I'm currently doing (DT/TT). 

I think that answers your question, but let me know if I got it wrong! 

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If he responds. I expressed myself in a bad way, what I meant if the tactic you presented with the angels galaxy you had used in your celtic

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10 hours ago, Liisandro said:

If he responds. I expressed myself in a bad way, what I meant if the tactic you presented with the angels galaxy you had used in your celtic

All good! Yes, I used the same tactic (this one) in all those saves.

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On 18/08/2020 at 04:46, Scratch said:

After many DM requests, I've decided to post the tactic I use in all my 1KC attempts, including my 2KC + Assists 1KC career.

NOTE: This is not a tactic that will help you win with an average team. This is a tactic that will direct assists to the wingers and goals to the striker - once you have a very strong team.

 

Formation:

the-sniper-tactic-01.jpg.3feba391e14d4d4e748952ee33972598.jpg

 

Instructions:

  Hide contents

the-sniper-tactic-02.jpg.9a739b2466d545b4e8fe01e48db5628d.jpg

the-sniper-tactic-03.jpg.6c94a5ebb3d5ba24f4c43702d7278f7b.jpg

the-sniper-tactic-04.jpg.e65c9a2549b8cfe1583ecb47be6659d8.jpg

 

Notes:

  • As mentioned above, you need to have a relatively strong side for this tactic to work.
  • In particular you need wingers with a very high Crossing attribute and a striker with a very high Aerial attribute - the main reason it works is that it maximises the number of crosses coming in to the striker's head. 
  • It doesn't work against every opposing tactic (especially overly defensive ones), so you need to have a more attacking alternative tactic you can switch to. The stronger your players, the more likely it will work regardless of the opponents tactics though.
  • It's not particularly consistent (I don't think any tactics are anymore). When my team is at it's peak, I can win some games 5-0 or 6-0, then have a couple where I only win 1-0. 
  • There are other tactics out there that will get you a lot more goals. This one excels in a) getting a lot of assists to the wingers; and b) getting the majority of goals to be scored by the striker. 
  • If I'm trying to get a high assists score, then I will make the opposing winger a little weaker, as it seems play will come to the stronger winger's side more often. I also put the strongest midfielder in the CM role on that side. 
  • Personally I have always found that the right winger gets more assists than the left, but that may just be the players I've used.
  • You might be tempted to set Passing Focus to the side of your primary provider rather than Mixed, but I could never get that to work. If you tell the game to go to that side, it seems the opponents shut it down. If you leave it as Mixed, the game organically sends it down the sides (without it being shutdown). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • There are more details on how and why this tactic works in the lone striker tactic thread, but it's across multiple of posts.

 

Disclaimers:

  • This is provided as a take it or leave it tactic. It works for me. If it works for you, great! If it doesn't, sorry, but I can't help you make it work.
  • Note: challenges have a "you must use your own tactic" rule, so you can't just take this tactic and use it on a 1KC, etc. You can use it for inspiration for your own tactic however. 

 

Anyway, I hope it's of some use to people.

 

I've just seen this linked on another thread of yours. This is almost the exact same setup I have tried this year for my 1KC with Kaio Jorge with the only differences being Attacking instead of Defensive, and TM instead of AF. Now I'm almost sure my attempts were terrible because Kaio just outright sucks 😂 

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34 minutes ago, itzChris92 said:

I've just seen this linked on another thread of yours. This is almost the exact same setup I have tried this year for my 1KC with Kaio Jorge with the only differences being Attacking instead of Defensive, and TM instead of AF. Now I'm almost sure my attempts were terrible because Kaio just outright sucks 😂 

LOL, I have signed him in one current save as a backup, haven't really used him much yet. I think he has pretty good potential though.

The thing about this tactic is this part:

Quote

NOTE: This is not a tactic that will help you win with an average team. This is a tactic that will direct assists to the wingers and goals to the striker - once you have a very strong team.

So much depends on the team being relatively very strong. Also the striker has to have great Aerial and the wingers great Crossing. I was using it with Carrillo who has Aerial of 18, so will put away a lot more of the headers coming his way.

I looked back at my 2KC and Unuvar got a goal a game in his first season, which was amazing for a young player - but by the end of the season he already had Aerial of 20. That was back on the first version of FMM20, when Aerial would sometimes jump 4 or 5 points at a time. I haven't gotten anyone to 20 Aerial at all this year, it's so much harder (and many players won't improve much at all). So maybe Kaio just needs more time to level up his Aerial?

Same goes with wingers - in my 2KC, Vignato had 20 Crossing, but I haven't gotten anyone near that at all this year. Pavon had 17 when crossing to Carrillo. So maybe Kaio needed better crossers? Of course when both the striker's Aerial and the wingers' Crossing are lower, then this tactic is not gonna work so well.

But even though this worked pretty well for me with Carrillo and Pavon (and a couple of good LWs as well), I'm still not sure if it's as good as in FMM20 (when I posted this tactic). I'd need to do a long term save where I ramp up the youngster as much as possible and see how it goes a few seasons in - but probably not going to do that any time soon.

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28 minutes ago, Scratch said:

LOL, I have signed him in one current save as a backup, haven't really used him much yet. I think he has pretty good potential though.

The thing about this tactic is this part:

So much depends on the team being relatively very strong. Also the striker has to have great Aerial and the wingers great Crossing. I was using it with Carrillo who has Aerial of 18, so will put away a lot more of the headers coming his way.

I looked back at my 2KC and Unuvar got a goal a game in his first season, which was amazing for a young player - but by the end of the season he already had Aerial of 20. That was back on the first version of FMM20, when Aerial would sometimes jump 4 or 5 points at a time. I haven't gotten anyone to 20 Aerial at all this year, it's so much harder (and many players won't improve much at all). So maybe Kaio just needs more time to level up his Aerial?

Same goes with wingers - in my 2KC, Vignato had 20 Crossing, but I haven't gotten anyone near that at all this year. Pavon had 17 when crossing to Carrillo. So maybe Kaio needed better crossers? Of course when both the striker's Aerial and the wingers' Crossing are lower, then this tactic is not gonna work so well.

But even though this worked pretty well for me with Carrillo and Pavon (and a couple of good LWs as well), I'm still not sure if it's as good as in FMM20 (when I posted this tactic). I'd need to do a long term save where I ramp up the youngster as much as possible and see how it goes a few seasons in - but probably not going to do that any time soon.

Well I look forward to seeing it if and when you get around to it. I was using an Ajax team that was still fairly young tbh, but age has never really been much of an issue in previous FMs. The whole team are pretty much wonder kids with world class potential. One thing about the Dutch league for me though is the lack of games, which may be the real reason why growth was fairly slow and results weren't that great overall. 

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8 hours ago, itzChris92 said:

Well I look forward to seeing it if and when you get around to it. I was using an Ajax team that was still fairly young tbh, but age has never really been much of an issue in previous FMs. The whole team are pretty much wonder kids with world class potential. One thing about the Dutch league for me though is the lack of games, which may be the real reason why growth was fairly slow and results weren't that great overall. 

I've played Ajax before (not with this tactic), pretty enjoyable, they have a really good young squad.

I think what I've found with this tactic, is that with a team like that, you'll probably win most games fairly comfortably in the first season, and your striker will score goals, but maybe not at the level you'd want for a 1KC. However, as those good young players develop into world class players over a couple of seasons, the goal tally will go right up. 

Which is sort of the normal trajectory anyway - players score more as they develop and get older (it's not just about their attributes, they get a lot more consistent as they get older). For eg, this is the trajectory of Unuvar in my 2KC:

image.png.42e684cdacbd5879c1ff126de87e310a.png

You can see his club goals consistently going up. Partly because he kept getting better and more mature and could spend longer on the pitch. Partly because the team was going from very good to great to world class (full of top regens all fully developed). 

Of course, all that was in FMM20, and I'm still not sure if it works as well this time around. I suspect from my save with Carillo in Beijing that it would work well enough for a 1KC (with the right striker and team etc), but whether it would get you all the way to 2KC is anyone's guess...

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1 hour ago, Scratch said:

I've played Ajax before (not with this tactic), pretty enjoyable, they have a really good young squad.

I think what I've found with this tactic, is that with a team like that, you'll probably win most games fairly comfortably in the first season, and your striker will score goals, but maybe not at the level you'd want for a 1KC. However, as those good young players develop into world class players over a couple of seasons, the goal tally will go right up. 

Which is sort of the normal trajectory anyway - players score more as they develop and get older (it's not just about their attributes, they get a lot more consistent as they get older). For eg, this is the trajectory of Unuvar in my 2KC:

image.png.42e684cdacbd5879c1ff126de87e310a.png

You can see his club goals consistently going up. Partly because he kept getting better and more mature and could spend longer on the pitch. Partly because the team was going from very good to great to world class (full of top regens all fully developed). 

Of course, all that was in FMM20, and I'm still not sure if it works as well this time around. I suspect from my save with Carillo in Beijing that it would work well enough for a 1KC (with the right striker and team etc), but whether it would get you all the way to 2KC is anyone's guess...

Yeah I completely get that; makes perfect sense. I've kept my save and I do plan on revisiting it after I've collected some badges. The career was kind of burning me out. Also had to restart on my first attempt after he had a cracker of a 3rd season which I think kind of knocked my motivation, but also set my expectations of him a lot higher the second time around 😂

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Something else that's worth adding is not only are your individual players and squad improving, the AI managed squads are also weakening. 

The AI is notoriously poor at squad building and management so all things being equal your results will improve in time anyway. 

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2 hours ago, billy2shots said:

Something else that's worth adding is not only are your individual players and squad improving, the AI managed squads are also weakening. 

The AI is notoriously poor at squad building and management so all things being equal your results will improve in time anyway. 

Yeah, that's true... It's the dual effect, your team gets really strong and everyone else gets weak. 🤣

It's sort of great for goal scoring challenges, but I wish they'd make it more realistic...

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