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Help Team dynamics keep plummeting and i don't know why

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No matter if i criticize, praise or ignore my players, they won't improve. Work rate, morale and loyalty are all F's, professionalism and determination are B's. Changing training hasn't worked. Morale is low but everyone is happy. I tried mentoring everyone and getting players with the right personalities. No matter what I do, the stats will always plummet. 

 

What am i doing wrong?

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· Posted (edited)

You are not alone, sometimes i move the disruptive one into reserves for several match and attitude were going up.

Its harder if the player influential and becoming main player of your team, they will become naturally disruptive...

The main problem is when player reach certain level of determination (adaptable), discipline ineffective to them either unmoved or they will unhappy with it. This were true bs imo.

Not to mention its hard to sell any player in this version.

Edited by Pharel

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· Posted (edited)

Professionalism, Work Rate, Determination and Loyalty are all based off the player's hidden attributes and are very hard to change at an individual level. I've seen Work Rate go up very occasionally when I've praised someone for training hard. Apart from that, having the player be mentored is the only way I currently know to improve these (although it only works for players 23 or below).

So... The only thing you can do to improve these scores is to sell the players causing the problems, then replace them with ones that are more professional or have a higher work rate etc.

To work out which ones are causing the problem, you can press on the text describing things and it will pop up a list of players and the effect they are having. Eg, when I press on "There isn't a strong culture within the squad in this area" it shows me which players are impacting Professionalism:

image.png.9d7329bea803f3fee423e3b2479fe751.png

So I should probably sell Bain, Welsh and Afolabi to improve my score (it's currently C). I'm not going to sell Hornby as he was a key signing for me and having a couple of players with poor attitudes in one area or another isn't the end of the world. 

Of course, it's pretty hard to work out what impact new players will have until they join... So in practice it's probably a slow thing to transform your squad over several seasons. 

I've left Morale out of all of that above, because it's the only one that's not directly tied to the hidden attributes. It's really just down to how happy the players are at the club and can probably be improved a little more easily (not necessarily easy though). Check out the popup list for that and then try to work out why they aren't happy. Does their personal screen have any red messages? Are they getting enough playing time? What does the Happiness view of the squad page show for them?

Maybe they are having problems settling in or learning the language, or they want a new contract or a new challenge, or whatever. Once you know what they are upset about, then you might be able to do something about it. If worse comes to worse, try offering them a new contract and maybe that will help. But if you can't fix it, maybe you need to move them on.

Note, that the current version seems to be really aggressive with players getting unhappy about squad depth and I've had Morale go to F for that reason. That can be hard to fix (adding more players can help, but sometimes they have to be better quality players and you can't alway afford that). SI Games are looking into the balance to see if it needs adjusting...

Edited by Scratch

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Wish they put an option to turn off the whole new dynamics system as it seems to add way more work to a version they advertise as pick up and play thru seasons fast . Seeing more frustration like this and having to basically blow up a team is kinda much . Touch version supposedly doesn’t have all these dynamics which is very odd to me since it would have more capacity being on pc/tablets/iPad vs a phone. Maybe they could scale it back so can spend more time playing game with team you want not dealing with bunch of toddlers getting upset over everything in game .. Hope you find a way brother just letting you know I feel your pain this year . 

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34 minutes ago, DIRECTFX said:

Wish they put an option to turn off the whole new dynamics system as it seems to add way more work to a version they advertise as pick up and play thru seasons fast . Seeing more frustration like this and having to basically blow up a team is kinda much . Touch version supposedly doesn’t have all these dynamics which is very odd to me since it would have more capacity being on pc/tablets/iPad vs a phone. Maybe they could scale it back so can spend more time playing game with team you want not dealing with bunch of toddlers getting upset over everything in game .. Hope you find a way brother just letting you know I feel your pain this year . 

do understand - it all seems very token and silly, to me. on the other hand, i haven't really paid much attention to it so far, but then i haven't managed at the top level much yet, mostly LLM...

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56 minutes ago, DIRECTFX said:

Wish they put an option to turn off the whole new dynamics system as it seems to add way more work to a version they advertise as pick up and play thru seasons fast . Seeing more frustration like this and having to basically blow up a team is kinda much . Touch version supposedly doesn’t have all these dynamics which is very odd to me since it would have more capacity being on pc/tablets/iPad vs a phone. Maybe they could scale it back so can spend more time playing game with team you want not dealing with bunch of toddlers getting upset over everything in game .. Hope you find a way brother just letting you know I feel your pain this year . 

Yeah, I totally understand that position and I have mixed views on dynamics.

On the one hand I love it as I think that's an important part of team building and adds a lot more depth and realism to the game (although it could probably use a little improvement).

On the other hand I really miss being able to pick up FMM20 and get going asap...

I'd keep it if it were up to me, because I do like the pros and once you're past the initial setup it doesn't really slow you down, but I know what you mean. 

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It’s nice having the dynamics looking good, but in my experience it has not had any affect on how I play, some of best performing teams witg celtic, Portsmouth and  Atletico have played the best throughout a season and they had poor dynamics.

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11 minutes ago, RichD said:

It’s nice having the dynamics looking good, but in my experience it has not had any affect on how I play, some of best performing teams witg celtic, Portsmouth and  Atletico have played the best throughout a season and they had poor dynamics.

I'd guess that it has a small effect, just like a lot of other things (player morale, players being tired, players not motivated, home advantage, who your captain is, etc etc). All these things must have some effect. But once you have a strong team, none of that matters much... If you have a team that's closer to the opponents level, then if probably has a larger effect on results. 

I'm just guessing - I think that makes sense, but I guess we'll never know!

 

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12 hours ago, Scratch said:

Professionalism, Work Rate, Determination and Loyalty are all based off the player's hidden attributes and are very hard to change at an individual level. I've seen Work Rate go up very occasionally when I've praised someone for training hard. Apart from that, having the player be mentored is the only way I currently know to improve these (although it only works for players 23 or below).

So... The only thing you can do to improve these scores is to sell the players causing the problems, then replace them with ones that are more professional or have a higher work rate etc.

To work out which ones are causing the problem, you can press on the text describing things and it will pop up a list of players and the effect they are having. Eg, when I press on "There isn't a strong culture within the squad in this area" it shows me which players are impacting Professionalism:

image.png.9d7329bea803f3fee423e3b2479fe751.png

So I should probably sell Bain, Welsh and Afolabi to improve my score (it's currently C). I'm not going to sell Hornby as he was a key signing for me and having a couple of players with poor attitudes in one area or another isn't the end of the world. 

Of course, it's pretty hard to work out what impact new players will have until they join... So in practice it's probably a slow thing to transform your squad over several seasons. 

I've left Morale out of all of that above, because it's the only one that's not directly tied to the hidden attributes. It's really just down to how happy the players are at the club and can probably be improved a little more easily (not necessarily easy though). Check out the popup list for that and then try to work out why they aren't happy. Does their personal screen have any red messages? Are they getting enough playing time? What does the Happiness view of the squad page show for them?

Maybe they are having problems settling in or learning the language, or they want a new contract or a new challenge, or whatever. Once you know what they are upset about, then you might be able to do something about it. If worse comes to worse, try offering them a new contract and maybe that will help. But if you can't fix it, maybe you need to move them on.

Note, that the current version seems to be really aggressive with players getting unhappy about squad depth and I've had Morale go to F for that reason. That can be hard to fix (adding more players can help, but sometimes they have to be better quality players and you can't alway afford that). SI Games are looking into the balance to see if it needs adjusting...

I'm 7 seasons into a RTG and never realised you could click to find out which players are affecting the rating. The amount of people I've probably sold just guessing. Thanks so much for this!

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5 hours ago, Robert Jolley said:

I'm 7 seasons into a RTG and never realised you could click to find out which players are affecting the rating. The amount of people I've probably sold just guessing. Thanks so much for this!

No worries, I didn't know about it for a long time either. I'd have to say it's poor design of the app rather than the user error! 😄 

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· Posted (edited)

The problem is, you need perfect form (10) in order to improve player attitude.

Not to mention strung trait "wont improved ever".

Screenshot_2021-01-08-09-30-35-71_0b2e78953ff85bd21e832a6a8ef6cde0.png

Edited by Pharel

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32 minutes ago, Jack said:

It’s the worst feature they’ve implemented for a long time. 

It’s not. It’s a great feature just badly made

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On 09/01/2021 at 03:57, broodje kip said:

It’s not. It’s a great feature just badly made

If something is badly made & doesn’t work properly then it isn’t “great”.

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This is like a PS. but at the start of the post; I've basically just put a bunch of experiences I've gotten from my Barca save so far to just kind of outline my experiences with the dynamics system and how to look after a squad.

From my experience so far this year there are several ways to improve hidden attributes (which affect Team Dynamics). I have done a bit of testing to try to understand it better.

- Criticise a player's performance - this can sometimes lead to increased workrate as well as morale, usually with a professional player (after a 6 or lower rated performance, if they are "Disappointed" - must be following them starting the match and make sure there's nothing such as "might use words of encouragement" or "but seems happy with..." ; those indicate the player will either be discouraged or won't care)
- Criticising or praising training - this can sometimes lead to increased workrate, usually with a professional player
- Young players (aged under 21) will passively gain professionalism if your squad has a good culture
- Young players (aged under 21) once they max out their professionalism will gain work rate passively
- For some reason when an AI manager (eg. Barcelona B's manager) dishes out formal warnings, the players can gain work rate, professionalism, determination and a host of things. I did a test season with Barca B active in the 3rd (soon to be 4th) tier of Spanish football, and every time a Barca B player dipped under a 5-rated performance, they were formally warned, and occasionally gained those attributes. I tried replicating it myself and they're usually muted or got irritated with negative effects.

Basically what you should aim for (IMO) is to build up a strong team of older players with good professionalism and reasonable work-rate. Those are the two things you can see through the training screen as they are labelled as "Has a Professional Approach" and "Hard Working" when these attributes are high. High determination also helps.

Then constantly criticising poor results for the players who can take it whilst praising training for all players when the player has a good temperament for it (ie. isn't complacent) also helps.

It also seems like in this version of FMM growing a young player is really beneficial, a single year at an affiliate club where they appear a lot can boost their growth quite quickly whilst them sitting around a squad with good dynamics will turn them into a hard working professional (which basically makes everything else work).

The images below show the messages I'm referring to (They will "become more professional under guidance of club's senior pros" first, then once they max out professionalism will start "working harder under guidance of club's senior pros". The "Professional Approach" positive will show up once a player has high professionalism.

What should be noted is some players will just rebel against a culture and they're usually a lost cause (unless they're young, in which case sometimes loaning them out can help). Older players are usually set in their ways and as a result if they're not doing you any good, get rid of them (or create a really good team dynamic, in which case their unprofessionalism/poor attitude can be held in check by the rest of the squad). I had a "Disruptive Influence" on a regen, but once I fixed up the culture of the club that tag disappeared. The regen still takes absolutely no feedback well so I just avoid any interaction. I'm pretty sure he's a Ronaldo regen which is the only reason I've kept him so far.

Below are images referenced for the longer-term examples. (I didn't think to screenshot the Barca B or the training/criticism improvements; but if you want to see them you can probably just load up a game as a Barcelona manager and either holiday for the Barca B things, assuming you load all the Spanish leagues in, or play a season as Barca manager to see what I mean in action).

Also if a player doesn't like the culture, such as not liking the relaxed culture or not liking the stifling culture, they are usually totally okay with hanging around and it doesn't seem to affect them at all (I kept Dembele for his entire career even though he refused to learn Spanish and didn't like the culture at the club, and he still performed well for me).

Screenshot_20210114-112027.thumb.png.7b25800390db533513f8b60a37d52927.pngScreenshot_20210114-112036.thumb.png.cbe8062f1a0203c3b62dda42933cb602.pngScreenshot_20210114-112047.thumb.png.da00fdd16617ffe86803044e77080ab6.pngScreenshot_20210114-112102.thumb.png.2453b279617cb76b3b526ec08eea6007.png

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fantastic post @Keraviln! i haven't really looked into it much - i just tend to check it at the start of a new season. i haven't found it has much negative impact on results yet, so i can't be bothered looking at it much further than that :D

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Any idea why there's a difference between the 'influence on squad' and personality. Ie, he's a model professional yet only has an amber for professionalism. He has a red for morale yet has superb morale.

Screenshot_2021-01-19-13-27-43-865_com.sega.score.jpg

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Very detailed post @Keraviln. I’m having trouble this year with squad building as seasons go on and I’m starting to think it’s related to the dynamics. I thought that this whole dynamics thing was something that was always there in the background and has just been turned on so to speak but I’m starting to think it’s more than that. Certainly feels like it has a decent impact on things and the game feels different this year for me.

I’ll start saves that I intend to be long term, play the first season and then strengthen the squad going into season two only to just completely flop at the beginning of the second season. Same tactic and usually an improved squad and it just seems to go wrong without much explanation tbh. Happened loads of times so it must be something I’m doing wrong. I’ll have a good read through your post and perhaps put some of it into practice and see if it makes a difference. Can’t say this is an area of the game I enjoy though.

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On 08/01/2021 at 03:50, Pharel said:

The problem is, you need perfect form (10) in order to improve player attitude.

Not to mention strung trait "wont improved ever".

Screenshot_2021-01-08-09-30-35-71_0b2e78953ff85bd21e832a6a8ef6cde0.png

  • No mine improved with just an 8 rating performance

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