Chat Converting big wins to massive ones

[billy2shots]

Although I'm convinced that the game works in an arcade manner as in dumbs itself down to let new/poorer players succeed, I also believe the same is true going the other way and it artificially restricts you. 

 

The number of times 5, 6 or 7 early-ish goals leads fail to increase can get quite frustrating. Sure there's the odd 8 or 9 thrown in (more if you're in certain leagues) but the majority of the time I have always (7 years of this game) found that the goals just stop coming. 

An argument can be made that it happens in reality for various reasons, players switch off and lose that desire or the oppo shuts up shop. For this discussion let's ignore those points and share how we turn big wins into bigger ones. 

 

Fresh players. 

I tend to play the game using Vibes goal challenges so I use my main man/men where I can but subbing in fresh goal getters can work especially when your attacker is less than 80/85% fit in game. 

Mentality

My biggest argument about the AI shutting up shop is the fact they don't! Checking their tactics, the bits we can see often reveals no changes so in theory what worked early in match should still work now but in my experience it doesn't. I ran some tests years back and did have good success adjusting mentality to the AI if and when they changed e.g attacking if they are balanced or balanced if they are attacking etc. 

I'm not buying it's as easy as just switching to counter as the oppo has to attack you. At 1,2 or 3 down maybe there's merit in that way of thinking but not at 5 + down, the other team tends to just stick with what they have and 9/10 the goals just dry up (maybe another 1 but certainly not another 4 or 5 regularly) which is why I have always felt things are a bit artificially limited. 

I'm not convinced by changing mentality from what was working up to halftime/50 minutes when the AI doesn't change but what are other people's thoughts?

Complete tactic change. 

Something I don't do is switch out the entire tactic or to a lesser extent change a few roles or the odd position. Does anyone do this to good success?

 

 

So what are your secrets to keep the goals coming in throughout the match?

 

[broodje kip]

All I do is to substitute my player and pray that they’d play good. Never like to change tactic in the middle of the match.

[Scratch]

I've noticed the same thing. Often I don't do anything and just take the 7-0 and sub my main lads off so they are fresh for the next game. Sometimes the lads coming on will score (whereas the main lads were unlikely to at that point), so that can help, but it normally doesn't lead many more goals. 

Every so often I will change tactics and that can help - sometimes a lot if I make the right choices, other times not at all. I do notice that the AI tactics can change several times throughout the match (not all the time), so I try to do something that will work better with whatever they've changed to. But often, I'm just doing things that I think will increase the urgency or make things happen: Press up higher, run with the ball, sometimes switch to direct (but often not), sometimes fast (sometimes slow). 

In short, I just try things! I haven't worked out what actually works yet - I suspect it depends on the opponents tactics and there is no one size fits all answer here.

[Rich]

I usually don’t change anything unless things are going badly and that is usually only changing my mentality or how high or deep I’m playing. And also changing the roles of my central midfielders depending how the game is going.

Now that you’ve mentioned my players do give up scoring sometimes if it’s going well. So I will try and see if there’s a way of it not stopping 🤔
 

[Chris]

I'm with Scratch here. I do pretty much what he says, subbing off my main men etc. I'll normally drop to Attacking or Balanced if the opponent is playing 5 ATB, and go Balanced width instead of narrow. Seems to work sometimes, but not so much other times. I think it's just hard coded into the game to stop you running away with things too much tbh because, as you also said, the opponent doesn't seem to change their play style or formation much if they're losing and yet the team just stops scoring (even if they are getting the same amount of chances). 

[hhooo]

Fiddle with mentality and width, and maybe swap some instructions (through balls to run at defense of one stops working). 

 

But in general, my teams always stop trying if they are winning big at half time. Even with extended highlights, the second half has almost nothing happen until after the 70th minute. It's honestly bizarre. 

[hhooo]

Fiddle with mentality and width, and maybe swap some instructions (through balls to run at defense of one stops working). 

 

But in general, my teams always stop trying if they are winning big at half time. Even with extended highlights, the second half has almost nothing happen until after the 70th minute. It's honestly bizarre. 

[billy2shots]

Glad it's not just me then. 

 

As a collective are we leaning towards artificially restricted then?

[Chris]

7 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

Glad it's not just me then. 

 

As a collective are we leaning towards artificially restricted then?

That's what my money is on. I don't see enough of a difference with any Tactical changes I make in the 2nd half. However, Tactical changes in the 1st half seem to have a huge impact, atleast for me. 

I hope this is addressed soon tbh because it really is starting to annoy me on alot of my saves. That coupled with my tactics seeming much less effective from December onwards is becoming increasingly frustrating.

[Scratch]

Yeah, pretty sure it's artificially restricted on purpose, because that's what happens in real life - I know you said to ignore that, but I think that's what they are doing. Actually a while back I heard this discussed on a football podcast, where they were saying you never get double figures in real life for this very reason (players switch off, can't maintain intensity, etc).

So... You can still get the odd goal, but they are much less common towards the end.

[Mr Tree]

Man City last night as a case in point? 4-0 at half time, bagged an early 5th in the second half, but didn't go on to make it 8 or 9...

[billy2shots]

4 hours ago, Mr Tree said:

Man City last night as a case in point? 4-0 at half time, bagged an early 5th in the second half, but didn't go on to make it 8 or 9...

 

You see that's the complete opposite to what I'm saying. 

City replaced their 2 in form midfielders who were dominating the game Gundo, and Foden at half time. West Brom also made subs and changed their system. 

I would fully expect things to change for the better/worse given that amount of changes. 

My issue is when no changes are made to tactics or quality of player but the goals just dry up. 

[broodje kip]

51 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

 

You see that's the complete opposite to what I'm saying. 

City replaced their 2 in form midfielders who were dominating the game Gundo, and Foden at half time. West Brom also made subs and changed their system. 

I would fully expect things to change for the better/worse given that amount of changes. 

My issue is when no changes are made to tactics or quality of player but the goals just dry up. 

Man City always got early 4-0, 5-0 games but didn’t go for 8 or 9.

[Mr Tree]

1 hour ago, billy2shots said:

 

You see that's the complete opposite to what I'm saying. 

City replaced their 2 in form midfielders who were dominating the game Gundo, and Foden at half time. West Brom also made subs and changed their system. 

I would fully expect things to change for the better/worse given that amount of changes. 

My issue is when no changes are made to tactics or quality of player but the goals just dry up. 

fair enough, didn't know the details, hence asking.

maybe it's a bit of a "shut up shop and try to escape an embarrassing scoreline" change from the opposition?

Edited January 27, 2021 by Mr Tree

[SK15Kev]

I notice the same thing, but often struggle to get past the 2-0.
Sometimes I go from short passing to mixed, which sometimes works.  I play with shot on sight, so would expect them to keep doing so, but shots taken doesn't seem to reflect that.
Even going from Attacking to Overload doesn't offer much more.

[hhooo]

22 minutes ago, SK15Kev said:

I notice the same thing, but often struggle to get past the 2-0.
Sometimes I go from short passing to mixed, which sometimes works.  I play with shot on sight, so would expect them to keep doing so, but shots taken doesn't seem to reflect that.
Even going from Attacking to Overload doesn't offer much more.

What's more important is how deep and how compact the opponent's defense is. If you are playing against team on defensive or contain, then upping tempo may not actually result in more shots compared to playing on counter or balanced. You need to back off and let them move up the pitch a bit to create more space. 

Run at defense also helps to open things up against packed defenses. It works well in combination with overload. Through balls on overload area awful and wasteful in my experience. 

[SK15Kev]

1 minute ago, hhooo said:

What's more important is how deep and how compact the opponent's defense is. If you are playing against team on defensive or contain, then upping tempo may not actually result in more shots compared to playing on counter or balanced. You need to back off and let them move up the pitch a bit to create more space. 

Run at defense also helps to open things up against packed defenses. It works well in combination with overload. Through balls on overload area awful and wasteful in my experience. 

Makes sense
I suppose yes, if they have filly retreated then maybe back off.  Any time I go negative though it seems to result in the opponent scoring, 2-0 always seems delicate.  I guess need to decide whether to go big and risk it or not.