Help My 4-2-4 gengen press tactic

[eli_berry]

I just got into the game and would like some feedback about my homemade tactic 😁. What do you think i can improve and any tips on some rookie mistakes i made?

[hhooo]

Through balls, fast tempo and exclusive passing is asking for an insane amount of technical quality and vision from a lower league side. If you want them to make ambitious passes to break the lines, you need to give them time by slowing mentality and tempo. Playing expressive passes or fast tempo also works well with run at defense. 

Since you don't have any natural crosses, I wouldn't bother with an instruction on crossing. 

High defensive lines are generally not a good idea unless you have really good and fast defenders, which you likely don't, and if you want to play through balls, a deep line can give you more space to play into.

Closing down all over is alright as long as you have a big enough squad to cope with the extra Tiredness. However, I wouldn't pair it with committed tackling, as that will lead to tons of yellow/ second yellows and make your players tired extremely quickly. Tackling should generally be inversely related to your closing down. High pressing is a way to win the ball without tackling. Hard tackles require time to pick the right moment, and sitting back provides that time. 

[Chris]

46 minutes ago, hhooo said:

Through balls, fast tempo and exclusive passing is asking for an insane amount of technical quality and vision from a lower league side. If you want them to make ambitious passes to break the lines, you need to give them time by slowing mentality and tempo. Playing expressive passes or fast tempo also works well with run at defense. 

Since you don't have any natural crosses, I wouldn't bother with an instruction on crossing. 

High defensive lines are generally not a good idea unless you have really good and fast defenders, which you likely don't, and if you want to play through balls, a deep line can give you more space to play into.

Closing down all over is alright as long as you have a big enough squad to cope with the extra Tiredness. However, I wouldn't pair it with committed tackling, as that will lead to tons of yellow/ second yellows and make your players tired extremely quickly. Tackling should generally be inversely related to your closing down. High pressing is a way to win the ball without tackling. Hard tackles require time to pick the right moment, and sitting back provides that time. 

Great advice. 

To add, I also wonder why you are playing a DFB on one side and IWB on the other. Either IWBs or WBs work great, and maybe DFB too (but I haven't used them myself) but with 2 IFs I see no reason to use a single one here. I also despise the BWM role and I've never had any good performances from them. A good CM in midfield is underestimated. 

Overall, I think you are trying too much. I like to abide by the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) when making my tactics though. Not to knock yours, it may perform well for you, but that's just my 2 cents. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Chris

[hhooo]

8 minutes ago, Chris said:

Great advice. 

To add, I also wonder why you are playing a DFB on one side and IWB on the other. Either IWBs or WBs work great, and maybe DFB too (but I haven't used them myself) but with 2 IFs I see no reason to use a single one here. I also despise the BWM role and I've never had any good performances from them. A good CM in midfield is underestimated. 

Overall, I think you are trying too much. I like to abide by the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) when making my tactics though. Not to knock yours, it may perform well for you, but that's just my 2 cents. 

I agree about the DFB, I would also try him as another IWB. 

 

As for BWM, they can be good if you play them in the CM line and use them as your furthest forward midfielder. A BWM needs to have better technicals and creativity than a normal CM as well in my experience, so it's hard to find a good enough player to play that way. Jens Cajuste is one that can fit the bill though, sort of a hybrid destroyer/playmaker, his only poor attribute is shooting, which is fine. 

Edit for a SS of the guy who plays BWM for me in TTR. He plays where an AP would go, but does a lot more work. It's a very demanding position, and most players would be better as just CM or DMs. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by hhooo

[Chris]

1 hour ago, hhooo said:

I agree about the DFB, I would also try him as another IWB. 

 

As for BWM, they can be good if you play them in the CM line and use them as your furthest forward midfielder. A BWM needs to have better technicals and creativity than a normal CM as well in my experience, so it's hard to find a good enough player to play that way. Jens Cajuste is one that can fit the bill though, sort of a hybrid destroyer/playmaker, his only poor attribute is shooting, which is fine. 

Edit for a SS of the guy who plays BWM for me in TTR. He plays where an AP would go, but does a lot more work. It's a very demanding position, and most players would be better as just CM or DMs. 

But his average rating is 6.85, that's what I despise 😂 I like everyone to be keeping an average of atleast 7.2 or more, if not they get benched 😂💯

[hhooo]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

But his average rating is 6.85, that's what I despise 😂 I like everyone to be keeping an average of atleast 7.2 or more, if not they get benched 😂💯

Yeah Yeah yeah the rating sucks, but you said good performances! Rarely is a rating related to how good the performance was. 

[broodje kip]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

But his average rating is 6.85, that's what I despise 😂 I like everyone to be keeping an average of atleast 7.2 or more, if not they get benched 😂💯

I got my BWM with 7.2+ while testing man marking. It’s been one of my favourite DM role so far.

@eli_berry the tactic looks too adventurous. I wouldn’t recommend using a DFB-IWB pair as they’re not going to help your team with for the width considering you are using 2 IFs there and in a 4-4-2 (4-2-2-2), it is important to have your fullbacks supporting since you have only 2 man in midfield so choose either WBs or FBs for that.

While both RPM and BWM most of the time works together, it is not a 2 man pairing role. I recommend using a CM and an either AP/RPM pairing as it is more balanced and less risk with higher rewards.

No point of using TM if you are not having any wide midfielder try a PF-P or CF-P combination. It might works a lot better.

Finally, the instructions are simply bullshit. I’m sorry but they are. This is not a top tier team with the best players. Both tempo and creative freedom should be set on either normal/balanced or slow/balanced. You would lose the ball more often than the amount of goals Cristiano Ronaldo are having by playing fast and expressive in the lower league. All over pressing is fine but both defensive line and tackling should be set on balanced/normal. Without pacey CBs don’t play high defensive line. I prefer to turn off all the final third instructions or sometimes tick either work ball into box or shoot on sight depending on the situation. Mixed passing is fine imo

[eli_berry]

18 hours ago, hhooo said:

Through balls, fast tempo and exclusive passing is asking for an insane amount of technical quality and vision from a lower league side. If you want them to make ambitious passes to break the lines, you need to give them time by slowing mentality and tempo. Playing expressive passes or fast tempo also works well with run at defense. 

Since you don't have any natural crosses, I wouldn't bother with an instruction on crossing. 

High defensive lines are generally not a good idea unless you have really good and fast defenders, which you likely don't, and if you want to play through balls, a deep line can give you more space to play into.

Closing down all over is alright as long as you have a big enough squad to cope with the extra Tiredness. However, I wouldn't pair it with committed tackling, as that will lead to tons of yellow/ second yellows and make your players tired extremely quickly. Tackling should generally be inversely related to your closing down. High pressing is a way to win the ball without tackling. Hard tackles require time to pick the right moment, and sitting back provides that time. 

Thanks for the advice, this is how my first season went. All I did was take of shoot on sight because it wasnt working out.

[eli_berry]

11 hours ago, broodje kip said:

I got my BWM with 7.2+ while testing man marking. It’s been one of my favourite DM role so far.

@eli_berry the tactic looks too adventurous. I wouldn’t recommend using a DFB-IWB pair as they’re not going to help your team with for the width considering you are using 2 IFs there and in a 4-4-2 (4-2-2-2), it is important to have your fullbacks supporting since you have only 2 man in midfield so choose either WBs or FBs for that.

While both RPM and BWM most of the time works together, it is not a 2 man pairing role. I recommend using a CM and an either AP/RPM pairing as it is more balanced and less risk with higher rewards.

No point of using TM if you are not having any wide midfielder try a PF-P or CF-P combination. It might works a lot better.

Finally, the instructions are simply bullshit. I’m sorry but they are. This is not a top tier team with the best players. Both tempo and creative freedom should be set on either normal/balanced or slow/balanced. You would lose the ball more often than the amount of goals Cristiano Ronaldo are having by playing fast and expressive in the lower league. All over pressing is fine but both defensive line and tackling should be set on balanced/normal. Without pacey CBs don’t play high defensive line. I prefer to turn off all the final third instructions or sometimes tick either work ball into box or shoot on sight depending on the situation. Mixed passing is fine imo

Thanks for the info. I was aiming to have my left back help the centrebacks to defend whilst my right back pushes to help to build attacks and join the midfield.

[eli_berry]

17 hours ago, Chris said:

Great advice. 

To add, I also wonder why you are playing a DFB on one side and IWB on the other. Either IWBs or WBs work great, and maybe DFB too (but I haven't used them myself) but with 2 IFs I see no reason to use a single one here. I also despise the BWM role and I've never had any good performances from them. A good CM in midfield is underestimated. 

Overall, I think you are trying too much. I like to abide by the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) when making my tactics though. Not to knock yours, it may perform well for you, but that's just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the tips, I sent my results down beliw and i think it went well for my first season. I am currently in league one, in the play off spots (till now) but i do seem to struggle to defend better teams in the league sometime conceding 3+ goals a game but my great attacks make up for it.

[broodje kip]

36 minutes ago, eli_berry said:

Thanks for the info. I was aiming to have my left back help the centrebacks to defend whilst my right back pushes to help to build attacks and join the midfield.

If you’re doing that, you may want to consider changing the right IF to a normal Winger therefore you’d be able to keep the TM and use the TM-CF combination instead 

[Chris]

31 minutes ago, eli_berry said:

Thanks for the tips, I sent my results down beliw and i think it went well for my first season. I am currently in league one, in the play off spots (till now) but i do seem to struggle to defend better teams in the league sometime conceding 3+ goals a game but my great attacks make up for it.

The conceding lots of goals is probably due to the high press. I would perhaps try 2x Fb to try and concede less without sacrificing too much in the attack