Chat Stats attributes and rescouting

[Swazy]

Hi everybody

Just wondering what everyones take on scouting and buying players is. Attributes v star rating + hidden attributes + traits

 

This is my take on scouting and buying players

I hire a youth scout and a first team scout. I use the youth scout to just search for talent and maKe a decision based on hidden attributes and the difference between the current ability and potential. I use player search to find first team players i need but i also scout them to see hidden attributes etc. I normally base it off attributes + traits for the position and role and star rating (i typically have reservations about signing someone under 2.5 stars regardless of their attributes and i dont know if this should really matter) if it doesnt matter why have a star rating system.

The thing i find annoying about this is you cant choose which scout to scout the player from the profile screen so what you end up with is a youth scout scouting a 28 year old and a first team scout scouting a 19yo. Also this happens when using the rescouting feature and sometimes it doesnt even refresh the scout report as the date of report doesnt change. 

Also worth mentioning does the star rating change based on the level of competition you play in or the quality of your squad only or both. I notice when i get promoted the 5 star players go down to 3 for example without an attribute change.

Would you sign an amazing player stat wise for the role they will play if they only had 2 stars. 

I know people say if they play well keep them but if not get rid. This theory can end up being the best thing you ever done on a save or the biggest mistake of your save if you say spent 28 million on a player.

 

[broodje kip]

This is FMM and not FM mate. Scout is not important. Star rating and traits are not important either. Face attributes and hidden attributes are the only thing that important when buying a player.

Edited August 13, 2021 by broodje kip

[HudsonOfSmeg]

16 hours ago, Swazy said:

does the star rating change based on the level of competition you play in or the quality of your squad only or both.

It's both. As you improve your squad and move up the leagues, you'll find it harder and harder to find 4/5 star players.

16 hours ago, Swazy said:

Would you sign an amazing player stat wise for the role they will play if they only had 2 stars.

I have done in the past, with mixed results. Some turn out well, some are absolutely shocking. They might not suit your formation/tactics, or their hidden stats are so low (like professionalism) that they end up being a burden, causing moral issues in the squad. Or they could end up being an amazing player for you, outperforming 5 star rated players and getting high match ratings. You never know with FMM though, which is half the fun.

[Swazy]

So say for example a 3 star player is about average in ability for the league and your squad. 3.5 - is overperforming in the squad and league you are in and will in theory improve your team according to the players you already have and the average of the rest of the league?

I have a bwm who has all the attributes you would expect for one 15 arial 16 tackling 14 positioning 15 strength 13 decisions in my charlton team now im in the premiership and hes now 2 stars. You would think with stats like those for his role he would be 3 3.5 only thing is he has no international experience it take it the games thinks this is now a big thing as hes now playing in the premiership. Just had a cup game where he played against portsmouth and attribute wise much better than their players but he struggled big time. His morale is also very good. I signed Zuber when i was in the championship and he was 4 stars not tremendous stats but he bossed every game never fot below a 7 rating ever and frequently got 8's so i think there is some substance to star ratings which is why i look at both

[Scratch]

@broodje kip is right - scouts ratings are so inaccurate, they're not worth considering (once I saw a scout give Messi's regen a PA 1.5 stars). The only thing I use them for is to see if there is a gap between Current Ability and Potential Ability, which means they have some room to improve, but even this isn't accurate. Oh and as Mr Kip also says, what the scouts say about hidden attributes is important. 

Also... I've seen players with very good looking attributes, but average CA/PA (I'm talking about the real hidden 0-200 values, not the inaccurate staff provided stars). I've seen players with average looking attributes, but very good CA/PA. I've seen players who start really well at a club, but after a few seasons there ratings go down, even though their CA is going up at the same time. 

What does it all mean? The best way to judge a player is how he fits into your team and how he performs on the pitch. If he's not doing as well, it's probably time to think about replacing him. If he's doing well, keep him, whatever his star rating is.!

[DIRECTFX]

6 hours ago, Scratch said:

@broodje kip is right - scouts ratings are so inaccurate, they're not worth considering (once I saw a scout give Messi's regen a PA 1.5 stars). The only thing I use them for is to see if there is a gap between Current Ability and Potential Ability, which means they have some room to improve, but even this isn't accurate. Oh and as Mr Kip also says, what the scouts say about hidden attributes is important. 

Also... I've seen players with very good looking attributes, but average CA/PA (I'm talking about the real hidden 0-200 values, not the inaccurate staff provided stars). I've seen players with average looking attributes, but very good CA/PA. I've seen players who start really well at a club, but after a few seasons there ratings go down, even though their CA is going up at the same time. 

What does it all mean? The best way to judge a player is how he fits into your team and how he performs on the pitch. If he's not doing as well, it's probably time to think about replacing him. If he's doing well, keep him, whatever his star rating is.!

One thing that is confusing with the whole scouts suck viewpoint is why do people who say don’t count on them for ability, potential or star ratings but yet the traits and hidden attributes are taken as a gold standard ?? 🤷🏻‍♂️  Think if the scouts where horrible and unreliable with abilities then they should also suck and be unreliable on the positive & negative traits screen as well . 
 

Yeah scouting system definitely needs a better overhaul and I get people aren’t perfect but there should be a sliding scale in game from the top scouts being about 95% accurate to the bottom bronze poor aptitude’s having 50% chance of being right and rest of the scouts levels in between. Assigning the scout on who to scout is also needed as OP said don’t want scouts not doing job they were hired for.
 

Could maybe add player positions to scout doesn’t even have to be that intricate just GK , defenders, midfield or attackers at least just not so broad as current setup. 

[broodje kip]

39 minutes ago, DIRECTFX said:

One thing that is confusing with the whole scouts suck viewpoint is why do people who say don’t count on them for ability, potential or star ratings but yet the traits and hidden attributes are taken as a gold standard ?? 🤷🏻‍♂️  Think if the scouts where horrible and unreliable with abilities then they should also suck and be unreliable on the positive & negative traits screen as well . 
 

Yeah scouting system definitely needs a better overhaul and I get people aren’t perfect but there should be a sliding scale in game from the top scouts being about 95% accurate to the bottom bronze poor aptitude’s having 50% chance of being right and rest of the scouts levels in between. Assigning the scout on who to scout is also needed as OP said don’t want scouts not doing job they were hired for.
 

Could maybe add player positions to scout doesn’t even have to be that intricate just GK , defenders, midfield or attackers at least just not so broad as current setup. 

I don’t think this is right. Someone you don’t expect someone with 60 CA to be that great when playing so obviously the scout would think that he is going to have a mediocre career. @Scratch said his Messi regen were scouted to have only 1.5* potential because of his low starting CA. You don’t say a kid who is struggling in youth team, “This kid is going to be a star”

[Scratch]

11 hours ago, DIRECTFX said:

One thing that is confusing with the whole scouts suck viewpoint is why do people who say don’t count on them for ability, potential or star ratings but yet the traits and hidden attributes are taken as a gold standard ?? 🤷🏻‍♂️  Think if the scouts where horrible and unreliable with abilities then they should also suck and be unreliable on the positive & negative traits screen as well . 

Yeah, they should be, but they're not.. That was actually one of the ways I worked out which piece of the save game file was which hidden attribute (when developing my scouting app) - change the HEX value to a low number and see what the staff say, then change it to a high number and see what they say. They don't report on every hidden attribute, but they're accurate on the ones they do report. Whereas comparing their star ratings with the actual 0-200 CA/PA values showed they were pretty inaccurate a lot of the time.

11 hours ago, DIRECTFX said:

Yeah scouting system definitely needs a better overhaul and I get people aren’t perfect but there should be a sliding scale in game from the top scouts being about 95% accurate to the bottom bronze poor aptitude’s having 50% chance of being right and rest of the scouts levels in between. Assigning the scout on who to scout is also needed as OP said don’t want scouts not doing job they were hired for.

Yeah, totally agree with this. The better the scout, the more accurate they should be. Mind you like @broodje kip points out you're not always going to be able to tell if they have a low CA. I sort of agree with both of those points of view and a really good scouting feature in the game would fit both of these into how it works.

High CA in the youth team means more likely to be given a high PA estimate, etc, but the better scouts might see small glimpses of promise that makes them more accurately predict which might go on to greater glories...

[geordiekrispy]

Generally I have used the scouts to see if they've got any issues in terms of fitness or injuries and their traits.
I've tried looking at the star ratings and it's all objective, I half think they're looking at the player in terms of your team not all the other players in the world. This can obviously vary depending on how good your team is and if your players are still improving or if they're still improving.

For example, you're after a new right winger mid season, you find a young up and coming 21 year old by filtering by attributes, you get him scouted and the scout says he's a 3 star CA, 4 star PA. That's not good enough compared to your current aging right winger who's in his prime. But you buy him at the end of the season and after he's settled in and had his mentoring and had a season improving every game and goes on to be in the Worlds Best XI for the remaining time you're playing that save. If you'd have relied on your scout you wouldn't have bought him.

In my TTR save I know that my final strikers were rated rubbish when I bought them, but they ended up being the best in the world due to the coaching and level of matches they were playing at. But looking at their stats you would not have guessed they'd be as good as they were. They had the right attributes in the right places.

 

I think @Scratch has probably done the most investigation into the PA/CA stars and scouting while he's been working on his scouting app. So I'd take his findings as truth.

[Scratch]

13 hours ago, geordiekrispy said:

I've tried looking at the star ratings and it's all objective, I half think they're looking at the player in terms of your team not all the other players in the world.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's true. They are judging players based on your club's circumstances.

That said, they often get things well wrong, even within that. Maybe I'll do some testing on this when I have more time, but for now I'll just share this eg I just found in an old save. It's an staff member, not a scout, but I find them roughly similar.

My staff member rates this youngster, thinks he has the potential to be 4 star (in a world class team). Even thinks he'll get close to Livakovic (who is low 4.5 stars real PA, which is pretty good for a keeper):

And yet, while he does have potential in terms of lots of updates to come, his ability will max out at 116, which is a long long way short of Livakovic.

I've seen egs that go the other way and underrate the player. 

So although they are tailoring ratings to your situation and it's supposed to be random to a degree, they can be wildly wrong. I guess that mirrors real life though...