Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Tactics Rock Solid 4-1-4-1


Recommended Posts

Hi!

 

I wish I had shared this tactic much earlier. But I've had very little time to test the tactics for an entire season. Our second child was born this year, so you probably understand.. ;-)

 

Back to business. Don't use this tactic if you're looking for goals. No, in fact this tactic literally kills matches. Usually you win with one goal difference, but on the other hand you hardly concede any goals. In fact, your opponent hardly gets any chances. Defensively, this is the strongest tactic I've made. 

 

Screenshot_20211012-200315.thumb.png.07b5028aadbfa02b8954ce7c5c8603ef.png

 

Philosophy: 

My goal was to create a very solid tactic that would work against both small and large opponents. Nice if you win 6-0 against a small team, but then if you lose 1-0 against a big club it is of no use. So the system had to be rock solid, but at the same time strong enough to win matches. Furthermore, I did not want to make any transfers in the first season to see to what extent this philosophy was applicable to the available players. My only requirement was a complete striker, so I ended up with the Spurs. For the best possible development, you train the players in the desired position.

 

Screenshot_20211012-200257.thumb.png.866e109efc4cc11a692f2526526e57aa.pngScreenshot_20211012-200308.thumb.png.d99b2e168cc7528b52a0784a444e7a2c.png

 

The formation: 

Screenshot_20211012-185152.thumb.png.214ff8b128e79e72fc51d84da81304fe.png

 

Instructions: 

Screenshot_20211012-185155.thumb.png.958c2d65d8c66d20a135fa8dcfd9fe9b.pngScreenshot_20211012-185158.thumb.png.22543edab9d9dff671458ece0bd4a01d.pngScreenshot_20211012-185201.thumb.png.7e073dfa8ff340c7f93c2c62f24bc48f.png

 

Results:

Screenshot_20211012-200333.thumb.png.473c2c6fa432cad930860d49cff8687b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200341.thumb.png.2ef1506db1db621892ab51ee56a2df7b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200346.thumb.png.be1a44b515310f8a8f256b1822ede518.pngScreenshot_20211012-200352.thumb.png.cb432be3481e2e8b4287b4b9251758ef.pngScreenshot_20211012-200359.thumb.png.329accd1eee1f7e676574aed237869b7.pngScreenshot_20211012-200408.thumb.png.2272bcc39f58c5e19dac8986685d91f6.pngScreenshot_20211012-200413.thumb.png.1f1ca97bb8115dd049f271ecb799c73d.png

Screenshot_20211012-104008.thumb.png.10e8033e7f312c0b4f86152ad0f66b2e.pngScreenshot_20211012-174814.thumb.png.4ac19dc69b8d1c429d4d17a4aebcaa1b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200239.thumb.png.78a67756663ed6dd6b19b03781708568.png

 

Still furious about this one loss...

Screenshot_20211012-194221.thumb.png.d4a1d164d36dac5bfb35cc6bd0860ee1.png

 

 

 

I hope you guys like this one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Van The Man said:

Hi!

 

I wish I had shared this tactic much earlier. But I've had very little time to test the tactics for an entire season. Our second child was born this year, so you probably understand.. 😉

 

Back to business. Don't use this tactic if you're looking for goals. No, in fact this tactic literally kills matches. Usually you win with one goal difference, but on the other hand you hardly concede any goals. In fact, your opponent hardly gets any chances. Defensively, this is the strongest tactic I've made. 

 

Screenshot_20211012-200315.thumb.png.07b5028aadbfa02b8954ce7c5c8603ef.png

 

Philosophy: 

My goal was to create a very solid tactic that would work against both small and large opponents. Nice if you win 6-0 against a small team, but then if you lose 1-0 against a big club it is of no use. So the system had to be rock solid, but at the same time strong enough to win matches. Furthermore, I did not want to make any transfers in the first season to see to what extent this philosophy was applicable to the available players. My only requirement was a complete striker, so I ended up with the Spurs. For the best possible development, you train the players in the desired position.

 

Screenshot_20211012-200257.thumb.png.866e109efc4cc11a692f2526526e57aa.pngScreenshot_20211012-200308.thumb.png.d99b2e168cc7528b52a0784a444e7a2c.png

 

The formation: 

Screenshot_20211012-185152.thumb.png.214ff8b128e79e72fc51d84da81304fe.png

 

Instructions: 

Screenshot_20211012-185155.thumb.png.958c2d65d8c66d20a135fa8dcfd9fe9b.pngScreenshot_20211012-185158.thumb.png.22543edab9d9dff671458ece0bd4a01d.pngScreenshot_20211012-185201.thumb.png.7e073dfa8ff340c7f93c2c62f24bc48f.png

 

Results:

Screenshot_20211012-200333.thumb.png.473c2c6fa432cad930860d49cff8687b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200341.thumb.png.2ef1506db1db621892ab51ee56a2df7b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200346.thumb.png.be1a44b515310f8a8f256b1822ede518.pngScreenshot_20211012-200352.thumb.png.cb432be3481e2e8b4287b4b9251758ef.pngScreenshot_20211012-200359.thumb.png.329accd1eee1f7e676574aed237869b7.pngScreenshot_20211012-200408.thumb.png.2272bcc39f58c5e19dac8986685d91f6.pngScreenshot_20211012-200413.thumb.png.1f1ca97bb8115dd049f271ecb799c73d.png

Screenshot_20211012-104008.thumb.png.10e8033e7f312c0b4f86152ad0f66b2e.pngScreenshot_20211012-174814.thumb.png.4ac19dc69b8d1c429d4d17a4aebcaa1b.pngScreenshot_20211012-200239.thumb.png.78a67756663ed6dd6b19b03781708568.png

 

Still furious about this one loss...

Screenshot_20211012-194221.thumb.png.d4a1d164d36dac5bfb35cc6bd0860ee1.png

 

 

 

I hope you guys like this one!

Awesome job mate 👏🏼

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patchy start for me with Leeds but it might be the players needing to learn the system since I was using another one in previous seasons.

I've got them all training in the system roles on intensive so that should help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 12/10/2021 at 22:48, Schwantz34 said:

Patchy start for me with Leeds but it might be the players needing to learn the system since I was using another one in previous seasons.

I've got them all training in the system roles on intensive so that should help.

Yes, if you have been using the same tactics for a long time, it may take some getting used to a different system. Let me know when things get better!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Van The Man said:

Yes, if you have been using the same tactics for a long time, it may take some getting used to a different system. Let me know when things get better!

It's definitely good at RB because I've also tried it there after getting the job early on in a SpVgg Greuther Fürth II save.

At Leeds it's still very patchy.

NHNsV4s.png

gQ9VZ6N.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Schwantz34 said:

It's definitely good at RB because I've also tried it there after getting the job early on in a SpVgg Greuther Fürth II save.

At Leeds it's still very patchy.

NHNsV4s.png

gQ9VZ6N.png

Hmm.. lot of draws. Can i see your team? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Van The Man said:

Hmm.. lot of draws. Can i see your team? 

I have tried different variations too because I also have Bornauw, Maehle, Cantwell, Shackleton in the squad who can all play two positions because they're now trained for your system.

pwECPw8.png

Edited by Schwantz34
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Van The Man - quick question for you - if you are watching the highlights, where do you think most of your goals are coming from?

  • e.g. crosses / corners from wide.
  • e.g. through balls from your APs.
  • e.g. high pressing leading to an opposition mistake.
  • e.g. Kane just creating things out of nothing.
  • e.g. long shots + direct free kicks.
  • e.g. long / direct passes over the opposition defence.
  • ... etc ...

Usually a tactic focuses on getting more of 1-2 types than the other types. You can usually identify this by watching highlights, or looking at your top assistors / scorers.

Am wondering where you think most of your goals come from ... ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

@Van The Man - quick question for you - if you are watching the highlights, where do you think most of your goals are coming from?

  • e.g. crosses / corners from wide.
  • e.g. through balls from your APs.
  • e.g. high pressing leading to an opposition mistake.
  • e.g. Kane just creating things out of nothing.
  • e.g. long shots + direct free kicks.
  • e.g. long / direct passes over the opposition defence.
  • ... etc ...

Usually a tactic focuses on getting more of 1-2 types than the other types. You can usually identify this by watching highlights, or looking at your top assistors / scorers.

Am wondering where you think most of your goals come from ... ?

Most goals come from crosses from the wingers but mostly through passes from midfield (Lo Celso in Spurs save). Corners remarkably few. But that's also because I didn't do anything to the corner setup this time, its on default.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

I have tried different variations too because I also have Bornauw, Maehle, Cantwell, Shackleton in the squad who can all play two positions because they're now trained for your system.

pwECPw8.png

At first I think the midfield is quite weak.. that's where creativity has to come from. But maybe they are well developed? And how are the relationships between them? And is that Maxwell Cornet retrained as a left back? If yes. then I would really use more real fullbacks. In addition, it is nice if the backs have something of a cm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Van The Man said:

At first I think the midfield is quite weak.. that's where creativity has to come from. But maybe they are well developed? And how are the relationships between them? And is that Maxwell Cornet retrained as a left back? If yes. then I would really use more real fullbacks. In addition, it is nice if the backs have something of a cm.

The CM's get good ratings and Shackleton though not starting, is my top assister right now. 

Sinkgraven is the regular IWB on the left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's how a full season went. It was inconsistent for me and I found that the lineup didn't really matter and not having IWB's with central midfield traits didn't reduce the effectiveness of the tactic, as you can see here;

iPNRPoM.png

Final table

VtFEXWL.png

Ttransfers in

LqvkAfe.png

Transfers out

scdU31B.png

etk7XGn.png

Goals

SLHeaYD.png

Assists

D6qIZfh.png

Results

AE02NsB.png

6XpniW2.png

CfwXdt1.png

CiGNdfD.png

cpJWGcP.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

Here's how a full season went. It was inconsistent for me and I found that the lineup didn't really matter and not having IWB's with central midfield traits didn't reduce the effectiveness of the tactic, as you can see here;

iPNRPoM.png

Final table

VtFEXWL.png

Ttransfers in

LqvkAfe.png

Transfers out

scdU31B.png

etk7XGn.png

Goals

SLHeaYD.png

Assists

D6qIZfh.png

Results

AE02NsB.png

6XpniW2.png

CfwXdt1.png

CiGNdfD.png

cpJWGcP.png

Thank you for your detailed response! I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you.. There are, however, some good results. I think it's a matter of having the right players. It's quite a contrast to my Leipzig save after 7 games for example..:

 

Screenshot_20211016-155725.thumb.png.9db76bb2fc58065fff21fa976bfaf768.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions. 

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Spoiler

The Surprise: 

  • The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.
  • 😮 ... but the central player roles ...  Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!
  • 😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?
  • All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

  • defensively very / surprisingly solid.
  • the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).
  • generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

  • I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.
  • Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?
  • If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.
  • Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.  
 

Other Small Questions:

  • Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.
  • Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.
  • Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?
  • Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

 
Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions. 

Would appreciate your thoughts.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Surprise: 

  • The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.
  • 😮 ... but the central player roles ...  Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!
  • 😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?
  • All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

  • defensively very / surprisingly solid.
  • the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).
  • generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

  • I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.
  • Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?
  • If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.
  • Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.  
 

Other Small Questions:

  • Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.
  • Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.
  • Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?
  • Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

 
Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

I'd say that's fair with the positive and negative.

You can see it was inconsistent when I ran it with Leeds. Didn't really matter what 11 I used, the striker still needs to play very well for it to be effective consistently I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions. 

Would appreciate your thoughts.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Surprise: 

  • The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.
  • 😮 ... but the central player roles ...  Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!
  • 😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?
  • All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

  • defensively very / surprisingly solid.
  • the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).
  • generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

  • I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.
  • Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?
  • If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.
  • Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.  
 

Other Small Questions:

  • Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.
  • Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.
  • Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?
  • Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

 
Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

 

Thanks for the long response! I really appreciate that!

 

To answer the questions/comments. 

 

The Surprise / the good: 

I have chosen for a lot of football from the last line. You therefore see the BPDs emerging and combining with the IWBs. The SK is purely because it passes more and has the intention to close down the space if the BPDs are too high up. The APs are looking for the space between attack and defense. The gap that this leaves free in midfield is closed by the IWBs and DLP. The DLP is a very important link between all lines. This player gets a lot of passes. 

 

Weakness: 

- Yes it is true that Kane is the absolute star. You need a good complete striker to make the tactic work. He is the goalscorer, although the APs also take their goals. In my Leizpig save it actually goes even better. Sorloth and Poulsen are doing great and you can rotate. And those aren't really superstars. You'll need a combination between a target man and poacher. Maybe the AF role will also work, but i think the CF is more creative.

Screenshot_20211017-133119.thumb.png.300c4e97e7107748cc8324395e7717b6.pngScreenshot_20211017-133252.thumb.png.84277e628f5fa4eb99ae9a9eef61ed88.png

- Yes, it is correct that it is not a tactic for small teams. You need quality. And the right players to make it work. Otherwise you won't score that one goal or two to win the game. 

 

Other Questions: 

- Lloris is doing fine. Not the ideal option, but I had no reason to change it. Ideally, you use a faster keeper. 

- The BPDs behave mainly like CDs. However, I do use BPD as a role because they come up more and give more risky passes. 

- Yes the APs sometimes go into the same space. I tried to use 1 as CM as well. This was less effective anyway because I really want them both to attack a lot. Perhaps a Dynamic midfielder will also work with AP quality (like Wijnaldum). But I've had no reason to change it. 

- The high line and closing down work well in this case because the DWs put pressure on the opponent's backs earlier. It does indeed pose some risks. When I have a lead in the second half, I often bring it back and I play on a control mentality.

 

I hope it made some sense haha.

Edited by Van The Man
Images
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...