Tactics Rock Solid 4-1-4-1

Van The Man · October 12, 2021

Hi!

I wish I had shared this tactic much earlier. But I've had very little time to test the tactics for an entire season. Our second child was born this year, so you probably understand.. ;-)

Back to business. Don't use this tactic if you're looking for goals. No, in fact this tactic literally kills matches. Usually you win with one goal difference, but on the other hand you hardly concede any goals. In fact, your opponent hardly gets any chances. Defensively, this is the strongest tactic I've made.

Philosophy:

My goal was to create a very solid tactic that would work against both small and large opponents. Nice if you win 6-0 against a small team, but then if you lose 1-0 against a big club it is of no use. So the system had to be rock solid, but at the same time strong enough to win matches. Furthermore, I did not want to make any transfers in the first season to see to what extent this philosophy was applicable to the available players. My only requirement was a complete striker, so I ended up with the Spurs. For the best possible development, you train the players in the desired position.

The formation:

Instructions:

Results:

Still furious about this one loss...

I hope you guys like this one!

Schwantz34 · October 12, 2021

1 hour ago, Van The Man said:

Hi!

I wish I had shared this tactic much earlier. But I've had very little time to test the tactics for an entire season. Our second child was born this year, so you probably understand.. 😉

Back to business. Don't use this tactic if you're looking for goals. No, in fact this tactic literally kills matches. Usually you win with one goal difference, but on the other hand you hardly concede any goals. In fact, your opponent hardly gets any chances. Defensively, this is the strongest tactic I've made.

Philosophy:

My goal was to create a very solid tactic that would work against both small and large opponents. Nice if you win 6-0 against a small team, but then if you lose 1-0 against a big club it is of no use. So the system had to be rock solid, but at the same time strong enough to win matches. Furthermore, I did not want to make any transfers in the first season to see to what extent this philosophy was applicable to the available players. My only requirement was a complete striker, so I ended up with the Spurs. For the best possible development, you train the players in the desired position.

The formation:

Instructions:

Results:

Still furious about this one loss...

I hope you guys like this one!

Awesome job mate 👏🏼

Schwantz34 · October 12, 2021

Patchy start for me with Leeds but it might be the players needing to learn the system since I was using another one in previous seasons.

I've got them all training in the system roles on intensive so that should help.

Silva Gamdok · October 12, 2021

Exactly the formation that was searching, I'm going to test it.

Silva Gamdok · October 12, 2021

Now no one else can say that Tottenham does not win titles 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Van The Man · October 14, 2021

Quick test RB Leipzig. They really have a great squad for this tactic.

Van The Man · October 14, 2021

On 12/10/2021 at 22:48, Schwantz34 said:

Patchy start for me with Leeds but it might be the players needing to learn the system since I was using another one in previous seasons.

I've got them all training in the system roles on intensive so that should help.

Yes, if you have been using the same tactics for a long time, it may take some getting used to a different system. Let me know when things get better!

Schwantz34 · October 14, 2021

5 hours ago, Van The Man said:

Yes, if you have been using the same tactics for a long time, it may take some getting used to a different system. Let me know when things get better!

It's definitely good at RB because I've also tried it there after getting the job early on in a SpVgg Greuther Fürth II save.

At Leeds it's still very patchy.

Van The Man · October 14, 2021

1 hour ago, Schwantz34 said:

It's definitely good at RB because I've also tried it there after getting the job early on in a SpVgg Greuther Fürth II save.

At Leeds it's still very patchy.

Hmm.. lot of draws. Can i see your team?

Schwantz34 · October 14, 2021

1 hour ago, Van The Man said:

Hmm.. lot of draws. Can i see your team?

I have tried different variations too because I also have Bornauw, Maehle, Cantwell, Shackleton in the squad who can all play two positions because they're now trained for your system.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Schwantz34

DanEnglish · October 15, 2021

@Van The Man - quick question for you - if you are watching the highlights, where do you think most of your goals are coming from?

e.g. crosses / corners from wide.
e.g. through balls from your APs.
e.g. high pressing leading to an opposition mistake.
e.g. Kane just creating things out of nothing.
e.g. long shots + direct free kicks.
e.g. long / direct passes over the opposition defence.
... etc ...

Usually a tactic focuses on getting more of 1-2 types than the other types. You can usually identify this by watching highlights, or looking at your top assistors / scorers.

Am wondering where you think most of your goals come from ... ?

Van The Man · October 15, 2021

11 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

@Van The Man - quick question for you - if you are watching the highlights, where do you think most of your goals are coming from?

e.g. crosses / corners from wide.

e.g. through balls from your APs.

e.g. high pressing leading to an opposition mistake.

e.g. Kane just creating things out of nothing.

e.g. long shots + direct free kicks.

e.g. long / direct passes over the opposition defence.

... etc ...

Usually a tactic focuses on getting more of 1-2 types than the other types. You can usually identify this by watching highlights, or looking at your top assistors / scorers.

Am wondering where you think most of your goals come from ... ?

Most goals come from crosses from the wingers but mostly through passes from midfield (Lo Celso in Spurs save). Corners remarkably few. But that's also because I didn't do anything to the corner setup this time, its on default.

Van The Man · October 15, 2021

9 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

I have tried different variations too because I also have Bornauw, Maehle, Cantwell, Shackleton in the squad who can all play two positions because they're now trained for your system.

At first I think the midfield is quite weak.. that's where creativity has to come from. But maybe they are well developed? And how are the relationships between them? And is that Maxwell Cornet retrained as a left back? If yes. then I would really use more real fullbacks. In addition, it is nice if the backs have something of a cm.

Schwantz34 · October 15, 2021

35 minutes ago, Van The Man said:

At first I think the midfield is quite weak.. that's where creativity has to come from. But maybe they are well developed? And how are the relationships between them? And is that Maxwell Cornet retrained as a left back? If yes. then I would really use more real fullbacks. In addition, it is nice if the backs have something of a cm.

The CM's get good ratings and Shackleton though not starting, is my top assister right now.

Sinkgraven is the regular IWB on the left.

Schwantz34 · October 16, 2021

Here's how a full season went. It was inconsistent for me and I found that the lineup didn't really matter and not having IWB's with central midfield traits didn't reduce the effectiveness of the tactic, as you can see here;

Final table

Ttransfers in

Transfers out

Goals

Assists

Results

Van The Man · October 16, 2021

2 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

Here's how a full season went. It was inconsistent for me and I found that the lineup didn't really matter and not having IWB's with central midfield traits didn't reduce the effectiveness of the tactic, as you can see here;

Final table

Ttransfers in

Transfers out

Goals

Assists

Results

Thank you for your detailed response! I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you.. There are, however, some good results. I think it's a matter of having the right players. It's quite a contrast to my Leipzig save after 7 games for example..:

DanEnglish · October 17, 2021

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Spoiler

The Surprise:

✅ The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.
😮 ... but the central player roles ... Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!
😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?
All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

✅ defensively very / surprisingly solid.
✅ the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).
✅ generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.
Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?
If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.
Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.

Other Small Questions:

Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.
Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.
Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?
Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

Schwantz34 · October 17, 2021

2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Reveal hidden contents

The Surprise:

✅ The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.

😮 ... but the central player roles ... Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!

😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?

All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

✅ defensively very / surprisingly solid.

✅ the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).

✅ generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.

Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?

If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.

Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.

Other Small Questions:

Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.

Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.

Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?

Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

I'd say that's fair with the positive and negative.

You can see it was inconsistent when I ran it with Leeds. Didn't really matter what 11 I used, the striker still needs to play very well for it to be effective consistently I think.

Van The Man · October 17, 2021

3 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I love the 4141. Use it + it’s brother the 41410 (with the ST moved back to an AMC) often to hold a narrow lead for the last 20 mins.

However your tactic surprised me: as it seemed very attacking for a primarily defensive formation. It has very strong strengths but one really big weakness + many potential smaller weaknesses / questions.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Reveal hidden contents

The Surprise:

✅ The wide player roles made sense to me - IWBs + DW.

😮 ... but the central player roles ... Lloris as a SK? 2 x BPD + a DLP? 2 APs?!

😮 ... plus fast tempo? High pressing + closing down?

All for a defensive formation?! Wow.

The good:

✅ defensively very / surprisingly solid.

✅ the back 5 provide great passing options / possession from the back (2 DCs, 2 IWBs, 1 DLP).

✅ generally the DWs do their job well + provide many crosses.

The biggest problem is this seems very reliant on Kane / your ST being a superstar.

I can’t see anyone else in the team scoring many goals in this tactic, except maybe a few long shots / direct free kicks / headers from corners.

Otherwise it’s all about Kane scoring from mostly half-chances. Is that fair?

If so, then many other teams would this tactic work for? Any team with Kane, Lukaku, Haaland, or a similar CF = yes.

Without a superstarstar ST, I can’t see where enough goals will come from.

Implication = I can see this would generate a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 draws.

Other Small Questions:

Does Lloris act as a SK (or just a normal GK)? I can’t imagine him rushing out to sweep up.

Do you CBs act as BPD (or just normal DCs)? As they have an IWB + DLP both giving an easy passing option + taking up that space ahead of the BPD.

Do your two APs sometimes occupy the same space? As they both are trying to drift centrally into that central AMC position?

Is your high line + closing down useful? Surely the opposition often have an easy passing option into an unmarked DMC / BWM.

Am interested, as this is the most attacking 4141 that I’ve ever seen + your Spurs results are just so impressive.

Thanks for the long response! I really appreciate that!

To answer the questions/comments.

The Surprise / the good:

I have chosen for a lot of football from the last line. You therefore see the BPDs emerging and combining with the IWBs. The SK is purely because it passes more and has the intention to close down the space if the BPDs are too high up. The APs are looking for the space between attack and defense. The gap that this leaves free in midfield is closed by the IWBs and DLP. The DLP is a very important link between all lines. This player gets a lot of passes.

Weakness:

- Yes it is true that Kane is the absolute star. You need a good complete striker to make the tactic work. He is the goalscorer, although the APs also take their goals. In my Leizpig save it actually goes even better. Sorloth and Poulsen are doing great and you can rotate. And those aren't really superstars. You'll need a combination between a target man and poacher. Maybe the AF role will also work, but i think the CF is more creative.

- Yes, it is correct that it is not a tactic for small teams. You need quality. And the right players to make it work. Otherwise you won't score that one goal or two to win the game.