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Challenges A Diamond In The Rough


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I was probably on for that at one point too @broodje kip but managed to improve though not enough to make the playoffs 😂

Got a fair improvement in aerial and okay-ish return I suppose...

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Do I look to take him elsewhere or try to cash in in L1? 🤔

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, broodje kip said:

Half way through season 1 and I’m yet to win a single game. Expect sacking from me soon 😂

What the? We had a slow start (as always for me) but 46 games was enough for us to come back and win it fairly comfortably. As I said above, I played him as an IF and considered his goals as a bonus. I didn't make him a single striker or give him the CAM spot, etc because I was worried we'd lose too much. 

We were able to sign a bunch of promising youngsters who levelled up a lot (Cotteral, Kenna, Knight, Mella, etc), plus managed to get Badji and McCrorie, as well as the free agents, so we ended up pretty strong for L1.

Hope you turn it around.

Edited by Scratch
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8 hours ago, StuartM said:

I was probably on for that at one point too @broodje kip but managed to improve though not enough to make the playoffs 😂

Got a fair improvement in aerial and okay-ish return I suppose...

833807592_Screenshot_20220412-181206_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.94a8e109ea3c99b70689db218b3a8446.jpg1748512941_Screenshot_20220412-181212_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.a86b14b34550fc77595bfdcaf0e9fc2c.jpg

Do I look to take him elsewhere or try to cash in in L1? 🤔

That's a nice start! I'd be surprised if people could get too much more out of him while he's so under-powered.

The stay or go question is an interesting one. By the time I finished L1, my team were overpowered for that league and ready to be pretty good for the next level. And likely to continue powering up too, so becoming overpowered for that as well. So keeping him in an easier league, with a strong team around him, seemed like the way to go.

Next time I think I will go to a big club if I can. He probably can't contribute as much at the start, if I go too early, but better facilities, coaches, mentors etc will help and being in a higher league will help him level up quicker.

Personally, I would probably either stay with Oxford or jump to a top-tier club, but not go for the middle ground. But maybe that would work out too. So hard to tell, so fascinating to see what you all do and how it works out for you.

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44 minutes ago, Scratch said:

What the? We had a slow start (as always for me) but 46 games was enough for us to come back and win it fairly comfortably. As I said above, I played him as an IF and considered his goals as a bonus. I didn't make him a single striker or give him the CAM spot, etc because I was worried we'd lose too much. 

We were able to sign a bunch of promising youngsters who levelled up a lot (Cotteral, Kenna, Knight, Mella, etc), plus managed to get Badji and McCrorie, as well as the free agents, so we ended up pretty strong for L1.

Hope you turn it around.

I play him AMC 😂

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2 hours ago, Scratch said:

That's a nice start! I'd be surprised if people could get too much more out of him while he's so under-powered.

The stay or go question is an interesting one. By the time I finished L1, my team were overpowered for that league and ready to be pretty good for the next level. And likely to continue powering up too, so becoming overpowered for that as well. So keeping him in an easier league, with a strong team around him, seemed like the way to go.

Next time I think I will go to a big club if I can. He probably can't contribute as much at the start, if I go too early, but better facilities, coaches, mentors etc will help and being in a higher league will help him level up quicker.

Personally, I would probably either stay with Oxford or jump to a top-tier club, but not go for the middle ground. But maybe that would work out too. So hard to tell, so fascinating to see what you all do and how it works out for you.

Same as before, you underestimated his potential. You'll be surprised by my score, for the first season in particular. I used a strikerless formation with him CAM. Worked wonders.

Won the league at a canter. Early into season 2 I was getting offers galore. Leeds, Villa, Torino, Valencia and towards the end even Arsenal but I stayed put. I'm glad I did as I have built a really good Premier League team now.

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2 hours ago, broodje kip said:

I play him AMC 😂

Seems to have worked for @Dai_ - otherwise I was gonna say that's why you're getting the sack in morning! 😄

added 0 minutes later
18 minutes ago, Dai_ said:

Same as before, you underestimated his potential. You'll be surprised by my score, for the first season in particular. I used a strikerless formation with him CAM. Worked wonders.

Won the league at a canter. Early into season 2 I was getting offers galore. Leeds, Villa, Torino, Valencia and towards the end even Arsenal but I stayed put. I'm glad I did as I have built a really good Premier League team now.

yeah, maybe I underestimate what he's capable of right out of the box. Maybe I will go with a different approach and play him as striker from the beginning next time...

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I have finished this and really enjoyed it. Seeing the growth in Johnny was crazy. So many updates. 

This is what he looked like at the start and the end:

552502351_Screenshot_20220405-182717_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.3f8a6760315609518a286f57b0f5b185.jpg

1622170333_Screenshot_20220417-231836_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.6056d9ae580e82a2b2bacd6142b11e9c.jpg

His wages jumped in Jan 2026 after he felt undervalued. Before that he was on 14k for 2 seasons and much less for the two first seasons.

He only recently broke into the England squad too so only 4 caps but he has scored 4 goals for manager, Frank Lampard. 😂

I'm delighted with his development. With the system we played it didn't necessarily depend on his aerial being overly high but he is brilliant in all the areas that matter.

 

446351074_Screenshot_20220417-231908_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.db5907e35b3772aae7bdf4a172f6e80b.jpg

His work rate has never changed but his professionalism increased early into the 2nd season.

 

And, the returns:

1400753967_Screenshot_20220417-231955_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.2e3ff4a98206a805f50da7eb83df2343.jpg

These returns are from him playing between 60-70 minutes of every match he played, bar just one he played the full 90.

I managed to build an excellent team around him which really helped these scores. The team was successful too with a few Cup wins and even a Champions Cup final appearance. 

I never fiddle with formation or systems once I start a challenge but I did with this one. Not during the seasons but at the start I would switch things up slightly.

I'm delighted, of course. 😁

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Great work Dai. I'm still using this as a bit of a mess about save!

Given I didn't set the world alight at Oxford, I headed to Palace in the Prem... My league form was a disaster as I've tinkered with my tactic but so far the young Rough has done alright despite a few injuries... I had him on intensive training.

1814918773_Screenshot_20220417-133321_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.aff4be1cbce701a323881094c727e7e6.jpg

1231759816_Screenshot_20220417-133331_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.5667655ff0f54dae5badcfe0085e4360.jpg

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8 hours ago, Dai_ said:

I have finished this and really enjoyed it. Seeing the growth in Johnny was crazy. So many updates. 

This is what he looked like at the start and the end:

552502351_Screenshot_20220405-182717_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.3f8a6760315609518a286f57b0f5b185.jpg

1622170333_Screenshot_20220417-231836_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.6056d9ae580e82a2b2bacd6142b11e9c.jpg

His wages jumped in Jan 2026 after he felt undervalued. Before that he was on 14k for 2 seasons and much less for the two first seasons.

He only recently broke into the England squad too so only 4 caps but he has scored 4 goals for manager, Frank Lampard. 😂

I'm delighted with his development. With the system we played it didn't necessarily depend on his aerial being overly high but he is brilliant in all the areas that matter.

 

446351074_Screenshot_20220417-231908_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.db5907e35b3772aae7bdf4a172f6e80b.jpg

His work rate has never changed but his professionalism increased early into the 2nd season.

 

And, the returns:

1400753967_Screenshot_20220417-231955_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.2e3ff4a98206a805f50da7eb83df2343.jpg

These returns are from him playing between 60-70 minutes of every match he played, bar just one he played the full 90.

I managed to build an excellent team around him which really helped these scores. The team was successful too with a few Cup wins and even a Champions Cup final appearance. 

I never fiddle with formation or systems once I start a challenge but I did with this one. Not during the seasons but at the start I would switch things up slightly.

I'm delighted, of course. 😁

Great work, have added you at the top of the leaderboard (with me a long long way behind!). Mirrors mine in a lot of ways, except a lot higher score for you.

 

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38 minutes ago, StuartM said:

Great work Dai. I'm still using this as a bit of a mess about save!

Given I didn't set the world alight at Oxford, I headed to Palace in the Prem... My league form was a disaster as I've tinkered with my tactic but so far the young Rough has done alright despite a few injuries... I had him on intensive training.

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Wow, with Aerial like, this early on, I gotta think he will get to 20 eventually, which opens a whole different way of doing this to me. Great going.

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An update on my 'effort' here... I think I nearly got the sack at Palace after a dreadful start (2 points from the first 9!) but I went with a tweaked tactic that seemed to click. We rebounded to finish 8th but no European football is a bit of a pain so I might look to hop again!

Intensive training was a mistake too so after 2 seasons, I'm hoping I know what I'm doing now!

838701570_Screenshot_20220420-090139_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.4a869ea018ea8bacd9712433647158ed.jpg1574728104_Screenshot_20220420-090145_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.615015e32aa2143e789fb2571f835299.jpg

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12 hours ago, StuartM said:

An update on my 'effort' here... I think I nearly got the sack at Palace after a dreadful start (2 points from the first 9!) but I went with a tweaked tactic that seemed to click. We rebounded to finish 8th but no European football is a bit of a pain so I might look to hop again!

Intensive training was a mistake too so after 2 seasons, I'm hoping I know what I'm doing now!

838701570_Screenshot_20220420-090139_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.4a869ea018ea8bacd9712433647158ed.jpg1574728104_Screenshot_20220420-090145_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.615015e32aa2143e789fb2571f835299.jpg

Will be interested to see how you go. I *think* that with him at a higher level, he will score and assist less at first, but should level up more quickly. Though I'm not sure because although higher level will give him more 'level up points' after games in general, he might not be getting high ratings like he might in the lower leagues. Fascinating!

I think I kept him on normal training at first and switched to low intensity later when he had leveled up a lot.. I definitely didn't go high intensity as he gets tired enough as it is. 

Anyway, good luck mate.

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I took a break for Easter and just starting to play again. Having seen the numbers that people are putting up, I think I have gone wrong from the start! My Johnny has lower stats, lower ratings and far fewer goals/assists than everyone else is managing at a similar point. Maybe I made a mistake moving up to the Championship early or trying to use my squad in my usual way. I'm about halfway through season 2. 64 appearances 16 goals and 25 assists, I thought these were decent numbers for the awful player he is 😂 I'm going to start again... 

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45 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

I took a break for Easter and just starting to play again. Having seen the numbers that people are putting up, I think I have gone wrong from the start! My Johnny has lower stats, lower ratings and far fewer goals/assists than everyone else is managing at a similar point. Maybe I made a mistake moving up to the Championship early or trying to use my squad in my usual way. I'm about halfway through season 2. 64 appearances 16 goals and 25 assists, I thought these were decent numbers for the awful player he is 😂 I'm going to start again... 

You're not doing that badly! But now I'm torn - I'm starting to think the best idea is to just stick to L1 where he'll score more, which will level him up faster, but I want to see what happens if I get him to a top club. But I'll probably skip the Championship - maybe it's too much in the middle.

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Now I've gone and done it...

image.thumb.png.259596892f0340ebe1f8d0b496ca93be.png

Serie A here we come!! :D

Not easy, but possible to get him there. The Salernitana job is available at the beginning, but you probably have to resign before applying (an old trick). Then I had to try buying him 4 times before the work permit appeal was accepted. 

I'm hoping he will level up more quickly in Serie A than L1. That said, Salernitana is a bad bad team, so it very well could be that he'd level up faster in L1 just because Oxford would be winning more and Johnny would be scoring more. It will depend if I can work my magic on the Salernitana squad quickly enough. 

They have a lot of old mediocre players that are hard to sell. Biggest fee so far is about 3M, which is short of what I would have expected for a Serie A team. Still, being in Italy means I can buy more of those Spanish wonderkids with low minimum release fee clauses without having to worry about work permits. I think we'll be at least mid-table this year.

Whether this is good or bad for Johnny though, we'll have to wait and see.

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For a CA 20 player he has some attitude on him:

image.png.357552d7a03798cff2d91f115089d664.png

Not sure I want his leadership to improve so he can spread his horrible attitude amongst the squad, but Ribery has a Professional Approach and is a Good Influence On Youngsters, as well as being a perfect mentor for him due to their similar styles, so 🤞 he can improve Johnny's attitude.

I was going to mentor him in Aerial, but I'll try to level that up without a mentor - or I might try to double dip mentoring which has worked for me in the past. 

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Not the best start:

image.png.4d5e2d053d948ef17f78ce4dd4185e21.png

In the relegation zone, media doubting me, etc so might not be in the job too long. It's a tough ask, as I did bring in some good wonderkids, but our squad is nowhere near ready for the better Serie A teams.

Also, a rating of 6 doesn't give him any update points, so he's not updating much with all this losing. I was expecting that for a player with CA that low, getting a rating of 6 in Serie A might get him some upgrade points, but nope. On the plus side though, when he gets a 7, it's a big jump (33%!): 

image.png.5f24f2bb63bd209c9ed597e20b169ab4.png

 

Also on the plus side, I got this message, then immediately abandoned the relationship:

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The result?

image.png.3b3bf2a44b1e592c68e3af6a75e06ff9.png

His Personality is now Professional! So that's one of two problems solved. 

I immediately assigned Duric to be his mentor - he is going to help out with Teamwork. Not sure if that will help with Work Rate or not, but maybe it will? Then we cross our fingers and hope Duric gives him a Work Rate present at the end of their time together.

Also, at the start of the save, Johhny doesn't have any aptitude for retraining as a striker, and he gets upset if you try, but a little bit into the save he loosens up and is able to retrain. So he's now training as a TF.

Looking good if I don't get sacked!

 

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How are you getting on @Scratch?

I still haven't managed to get Master Rough to be a natural striker yet, after 3 years!

Doesn't seem to matter much though as he is performing fairly well (by my standards) but only a modest improvement in stats considering..

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1699705465_Screenshot_20220501-091504_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.1efaf93e3746f1914493a5b33ec9242a.jpg

I have Champions League football next season so hopefully more goals from more fixtures

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1 hour ago, StuartM said:

How are you getting on @Scratch?

I still haven't managed to get Master Rough to be a natural striker yet, after 3 years!

Doesn't seem to matter much though as he is performing fairly well (by my standards) but only a modest improvement in stats considering..

836582211_Screenshot_20220501-091515_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.e762df66b604c87ff395e49703eca08e.jpg

1699705465_Screenshot_20220501-091504_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.1efaf93e3746f1914493a5b33ec9242a.jpg

I have Champions League football next season so hopefully more goals from more fixtures

He's doing really well attribute wise - here he is early on in season 2 (not too far off your lad, with 18 months up his sleeve): 

image.png.f3303ddda6942aa02b4839c0ee55f576.png

He got the Professionalism upgrade early on, so maybe that helped him level up? Also in Serie A, you just need to get him to a 7 to get a pretty big jump, so I was watching for him to hit 7 and subbing him off right away - he wasn't getting many goals or assist early on so leaving him on often resulted in it going back to 6 by the end of the game.  

He only had 19 contributions in season 1, but he levelled up nicely and I'm now playing him as a single striker in season 2. Hopefully he'll kick on and score a bunch. Getting about a goal a game so far.

As for the retraining him as a striker, it was pretty easy BUT it was the second time I tried. First time it said he had no aptitude for it and he was unhappy and didn't like the position so I killed it and went back later. Second time it said he'd be reasonable at upgrading and he didn't complain. I've seen that a bit in the past too, it's definitely worth killing it and trying again later when they are more in the mood.

 

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I'm still too poor to afford my own career thread, so here is a quick update on my second attempt. It's really quite different from my first attempt.

Having been in Serie A for the first 2 seasons has meant he's levelled up much more quickly than version 1 did in L1 and L2. For example, this is what he looks like at the end of season 2 and it's almost as good as he was by the end of season 5 in my first attempt:

image.png.a62ae1050685c63fc18961f7ceea0454.png

And he's still improving.

BUT playing at the higher level means he hasn't contributed nearly as much as he did at the lower levels. Here's the output from his first two seasons (he had 93 in attempt 1, only 55 here):

image.png.5d8bd125e06f3eb1058178344cf33251.png

What does it all mean? I guess trying to play at the higher level was a mistake? He looks better, but the output's not there. I'm expecting him to score a lot more next season, but might be too late now..

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I still think that looks pretty good @Scratch but then I'm not that used to these sorts of challenges. If he steps up for you like he has for me here then you can still go very big...

1285288116_Screenshot_20220505-212203_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.e0ba8b4f550f5d7c67ff9585a1a53d27.jpg

The biggest stat improvement was in his shooting this year, which meant he was much more consistent and gave me this:

1513440945_Screenshot_20220505-212209_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.a7ee09c7737b1ba165d0fb0d6cabd65e.jpg

I think my previous best scoring season was in the 40s and I haven't had an AvR in the 9s since Chris Bart-Williams on CM94!

I haven't been that smart on maximising his minutes, if I play him more next season, I should manage a few more goals. Assists are terrible of course but while he is scoring like that I'm not too bothered!

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38 minutes ago, StuartM said:

I still think that looks pretty good @Scratch but then I'm not that used to these sorts of challenges. If he steps up for you like he has for me here then you can still go very big...

1285288116_Screenshot_20220505-212203_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.e0ba8b4f550f5d7c67ff9585a1a53d27.jpg

The biggest stat improvement was in his shooting this year, which meant he was much more consistent and gave me this:

1513440945_Screenshot_20220505-212209_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.a7ee09c7737b1ba165d0fb0d6cabd65e.jpg

I think my previous best scoring season was in the 40s and I haven't had an AvR in the 9s since Chris Bart-Williams on CM94!

I haven't been that smart on maximising his minutes, if I play him more next season, I should manage a few more goals. Assists are terrible of course but while he is scoring like that I'm not too bothered!

Nice!

I'm a couple of months in to S3 now and he's getting about 1 a game so far. I feel like he's going to step up shortly though. He's started getting more chances, just needs to take more of them! And our team was sluggish (I even got media criticism for our bad start to the season), but we're starting to do a little better now.

In many ways this whole save has been pretty frustrating as the tactic (which worked in Spain a couple of weeks ago) is feeling off for some reason. Maybe it doesn't work so well in Italy. Maybe it's just Johnny bringing the team down - for eg we have an F in working hard right now due to his influence and it says we won't press as well, so maybe that means the tactic doesn't work so well. 

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Sorta off topic of this challenge, but it's interesting to see your player having a normal personality despite being super unprofessional like Aurier. I might need to review the conditions to have a relaxed personality.

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4 hours ago, eternalaurora said:

Sorta off topic of this challenge, but it's interesting to see your player having a normal personality despite being super unprofessional like Aurier. I might need to review the conditions to have a relaxed personality.

Yeah, you'd think 2 for Professionalism and 2 for Work Rate would get you something other than Normal! Maybe it's offset by some other attributes, but I can't see anything which would compensate for that. Here are his starting hidden attributes:

image.png.fa1a965441b8db91efe2845ee4a4a107.png

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1 hour ago, Scratch said:

Yeah, you'd think 2 for Professionalism and 2 for Work Rate would get you something other than Normal! Maybe it's offset by some other attributes, but I can't see anything which would compensate for that. Here are his starting hidden attributes:

image.png.fa1a965441b8db91efe2845ee4a4a107.png

Indeed. I don't know why but he's not casual as well, and I thought casual is triggered by being low in both work rate and unselfishness. I've already observed a non-normal personality becoming normal due to another attribute (loyal players will become normal if they have high leadership), but this is new to me.

Also, I haven't fully figured out the stuff about finishing and long shots yet, but I have at least some clues of it now. It is the weighted average of something around 7:3. Coach report is a good way of telling which one is actually good for strikers. Juventus is a good tester here because they have all three kinds. Dybala, being good at only long shots, has "capable of shooting from distance;" Kean and Morata, being only good at finishing, has "clinical finisher in the box;" Vlahovic, being good at both, has "dangerous in front of goal."

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58 minutes ago, eternalaurora said:

Indeed. I don't know why but he's not casual as well, and I thought casual is triggered by being low in both work rate and unselfishness. I've already observed a non-normal personality becoming normal due to another attribute (loyal players will become normal if they have high leadership), but this is new to me.

Also, I haven't fully figured out the stuff about finishing and long shots yet, but I have at least some clues of it now. It is the weighted average of something around 7:3. Coach report is a good way of telling which one is actually good for strikers. Juventus is a good tester here because they have all three kinds. Dybala, being good at only long shots, has "capable of shooting from distance;" Kean and Morata, being only good at finishing, has "clinical finisher in the box;" Vlahovic, being good at both, has "dangerous in front of goal."

Haven't spent that long trying to work it out, but I agree that he really should have been Relaxed based on my (obviously flawed) undrestanding...

As for Finishing vs Long Shots, I went with Finishing x 0.8 and Long Shots x 0.3. I know that doesn't add up to 1, but that seemed to give me the closed results when I was testing this last year. I probably need to revisit all of this at some point...

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17 hours ago, Scratch said:

Haven't spent that long trying to work it out, but I agree that he really should have been Relaxed based on my (obviously flawed) undrestanding...

As for Finishing vs Long Shots, I went with Finishing x 0.8 and Long Shots x 0.3. I know that doesn't add up to 1, but that seemed to give me the closed results when I was testing this last year. I probably need to revisit all of this at some point...

I'll probably need to go through the leagues again then. My current hypothesis is Relaxed is triggered by an interval (possibly between 6 and 9) rather than simply smaller than 10, but I need more samples to verify it. Casual is even more complicated. I lowered Foden's teamwork to 9 and he was still Normal, then I lowered Valverde's and he became Casual.

Thank you so much for your test results, it really opened up the vision for me. I never thought the ratio of these two may not add up to 1. Coming back to it, I now agree that the ratio doesn't add up to 1, but I think it's more likely to be 0.7:0.2 rather than 0.8:0.3, at least in FMM22.

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Time for me to prop up another leaderboard!

I've finished my 5th season, another good one for goalscoring though at one point it was looking even better and I ended up about 10 goals short of what I was hoping for due to injury and inconsistent form.

Nevertheless if I ignore what others achieved, I'm pretty happy!

462815002_Screenshot_20220512-160952_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.a5cce92bf40a6f9c21bd2de9b8dd5a2c.jpg

Not much in the way of stat improvements this season but he's still pretty decent.

914616698_Screenshot_20220512-160941_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.1c4475b31dc6348fbd3816464a835e4d.jpg

Trophy wise, young Mr Rough got two league titles, an FA Cup and Community Shield (and runners up in League Cup and Champions League).

How is everyone else getting on?

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On 13/05/2022 at 01:21, StuartM said:

Time for me to prop up another leaderboard!

I've finished my 5th season, another good one for goalscoring though at one point it was looking even better and I ended up about 10 goals short of what I was hoping for due to injury and inconsistent form.

Nevertheless if I ignore what others achieved, I'm pretty happy!

462815002_Screenshot_20220512-160952_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.a5cce92bf40a6f9c21bd2de9b8dd5a2c.jpg

Not much in the way of stat improvements this season but he's still pretty decent.

914616698_Screenshot_20220512-160941_FM22Mobile.thumb.jpg.1c4475b31dc6348fbd3816464a835e4d.jpg

Trophy wise, young Mr Rough got two league titles, an FA Cup and Community Shield (and runners up in League Cup and Champions League).

How is everyone else getting on?

Good stuff mate! Added you to the leaderboard. Was very interesting to see the approach (1 season at Oxford then jump to middling EPL club) - I love the different ways you can approach this. And all in all that's a good total.

As for me, I'm in Feb of season 4 - the team is world class now and winning most things, while young Johnny has 156 goals and 19 assists. He's started getting a couple of goals most games (51 in 33), but might be too late to beat my previous score. 

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