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Help Help with perfecting tactic


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Posted (edited)

Hello guys,

I started a new save in Italy and created a tactic to suit my players. Below I posted the tactic and 2 match stats. I had some succes with it with other teams but I am rather a perfectionist and want to improve it.
 

For example: 

- On the right side I play with a winger so the back behind him does not need to be in the same position, so created an ‘extra’ midfielder (Iwb) to support in that area. 
- On the left side I play with an Inside forward so the back can overlap (Wb).


Things to know: I play with a cm rather than a playmaker cause in my opinion the keeper just launches the ball to the playmaker, (loses every header) and so does the rest naturally focus on him. Because I want to be unpredictable I have chosen the cm who has ‘tries killer balls’ and ‘dictates tempo’ blabla. So he is in fact the playmaker in this tactic. 
 

Main question for me: How can I get the best of my midfield? The Iwb will drift inside but there is the cm/playmaker. (See below, red is my playmaker, black are my backs.) have tried switching cm with the b2b but I am not great in seeing patterns so therefore my question.

In conclusion:

- How to finetune the positions of my midfield duo?

- And I am very open to feedback in how to ‘perfect’ this tactic?45F78BF3-45E9-4DD0-BA12-F60E8E31CB66.thumb.jpeg.9406b9be6de971bd4d5cb330179a9ad1.jpegF13F7143-2325-4CEA-B0BA-91A48B2387FA.thumb.png.6745d6f4a94091a0a205ea2ffc2e1d3a.png06E08BD7-5652-4BCF-9409-22C68A489B38.thumb.png.f50b10cc32908db132217ef6982743d9.png8D18AE33-4B64-4FED-8784-ABAC1B65EE8A.thumb.png.4d7e47cca40f9f240b8c3753e5d67f6a.png6A034659-A95D-4854-B622-ABE181D888B4.thumb.png.ee920132674425f9fe90e64868c6e425.png05FE2449-445C-4B31-B40E-1BC850514987.thumb.png.996885f3547f9df86bda9a1f54cc6ea0.png

Edited by iXfeirce
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Swap your BBM and CM positions. I agree completely on your playmaker decision, but the space is open between winger and striker for the BBM, while the CM is blocking the space that your IWB wants to move into.

45F78BF3-45E9-4DD0-BA12-F60E8E31CB66.jpeg.0e230d92150e4edc0013a8416d07e796.thumb.jpg.475d6df3ff8fc82daf814697294a647a.jpg

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1 minute ago, hhooo said:

Swap your BBM and CM positions. I agree completely on your playmaker decision, but the space is open between winger and striker for the BBM, while the CM is blocking the space that your IWB wants to move into.

45F78BF3-45E9-4DD0-BA12-F60E8E31CB66.jpeg.0e230d92150e4edc0013a8416d07e796.thumb.jpg.475d6df3ff8fc82daf814697294a647a.jpg

Played a couple friendlies as AC Milan with this tactic and saw this countless times just in the first match. The winger keeps the opposition full back wide while the central attackers occupy the central defenders but the CM doesn’t make those forward runs into the space (yellow box in the screenshots). 
 

Also, the IWB and CM want to occupy the same space in possession (blue circle in first screenshot). No need to have the CM sitting very static in the centre (not taking advantage of that space the winger makes) when the IWB will fill that hole and protect the middle against the counter or be useful in recycling possession. 
 

Last thing I saw was the AF and IF dragging the defense to the middle significantly reducing the space for the B2B to run into. 79 is my B2B and you can see him constantly surrounded by opposition players pulled into his path by the runs of the IF. If you swap the CM and B2B the CM will sit a bit deeper and have time on the ball since the defense will be occupied with the central attackers and the B2B will run into that channel that the winger creates. 

C72BA287-AA57-4C3F-B5C6-007D39C6550C.jpeg

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B6E84A5A-110B-48FE-ADF5-18B87BE7003C.jpeg

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Wow, thank you both and for testing! I indeed saw the Iwb and cm in the same spot what made me think to swap them.. but never ever would have seen the pattern of the if/af blocking the space for the b2b. Glad I asked.. I will swap them and see where it will take me. 

Anything else you may have noticed? Or something I can try?

Also maybe a silly question, but when I play the away fixtures teams tend to play more aggressive/attacking minded. So currently am playing the same tactic then but with counter mentality and dropping the wb to a fb and dropping the defensive line to standard and turn of the offside trap. But I feel like I am forgetting something..

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Posted (edited)

100% agree with swopping the B2B and CM. Gives a channel for the B2B to run into (with the IWB covering behind) 👍 

As a question - how aerially strong are your IF and particularly your AF … ?

Spoiler
  • As you have a WB to provide crosses in, but you’re only succeeding with 2-3 crosses out of 14-18 attempted. 
  • If your AF and IF are not aerially strong, then I’d change the WB to an IWB and change that CM to a B2B (or potentially an AP if I needed more chances created!)
  • The B2B will hit the channels, while the AP would drift centrally into the hole behind your AF/IF. 
  • You’d have zero width on that side (but you don’t have much now anyway!).
     
  • Example - as Man Utd - if Ronaldo is upfront, then I’d have McTominay / Fred as a CM and Shaw as a WB (just like your formation). But if I have Martial upfront, then I’d switch MCTominay / Fred to a B2B and Shaw to an IWB - more central passes, less useless crossing.

 
Also away from home, if the opposition play an AMC, then perhaps consider swopping your DMC to an Anchor role (I feel they stays in position more often).

Also depending on your ST’s attributes and PPMs, away from home (or defending a narrow lead) you could switch him to a DLF (assuming CM / B2B behind, typically don’t want an AP behind a DLF) or my personal favorite switch your ST to an AM/AP in the AMC role. Brilliant for keeping possession and your IF still presents a goal threat!

Edited by DanEnglish
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6 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

As a question - how aerially strong are your IF and particularly your AF … ?

  Reveal hidden contents
  • As you have a WB to provide crosses in, but you’re only succeeding with 2-3 crosses out of 14-18 attempted. 
  • If your AF and IF are not aerially strong, then I’d change the WB to an IWB and change that CM to a B2B (or potentially an AP if I needed more chances created!)
  • The B2B will hit the channels, while the AP would drift centrally into the hole behind your AF/IF. 
  • You’d have zero width on that side (but you don’t have much now anyway!).
     
  • Example - as Man Utd - if Ronaldo is upfront, then I’d have McTominay / Fred as a CM and Shaw as a WB (just like your formation). But if I have Martial upfront, then I’d switch MCTominay / Fred to a B2B and Shaw to an IWB - more central passes, less useless crossing.

My strikers (both starting and sub) have 12 for heading and my IF has 10 and the sub has 8. So not the most talented players in the aeriall department. Regarding your thought's in the hidden contents: If I look at the player preferred moves, in the CM role it is 'green'. If I change the role to a b2b it is not longer green. (This is why I haven't been playing with 2 b2b players as I want one to be creating (using his preffered moves). In my case the cm is the playmaker with ppm of killer balls / dictates tempo and gets into opposition area. If I change him to a b2b, will he still do this? 

Quote

Things to know: I play with a cm rather than a playmaker cause in my opinion the keeper just launches the ball to the playmaker, (loses every header) and so does the rest naturally focus on him.

This is also why I have not opted to play with a playmaker role. I dont know if it is me but whenever I play with a role of a playmaker he gets so many long balls from my keeper/defenders and he gets easily man marked by the opponent. Dont know if anyone else experiences the same?

7 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Also away from home, if the opposition play an AMC, then perhaps consider swopping your DMC to an Anchor role (I feel they stays in position more often).

Also depending on your ST’s attributes and PPMs, away from home (or defending a narrow lead) you could switch him to a DLF (assuming CM / B2B behind, typically don’t want an AP behind a DLF) or my personal favorite switch your ST to an AM/AP in the AMC role. Brilliant for keeping possession and your IF still presents a goal threat!

If I would to change the cm / b2b combination to a b2b / b2b, would you than also play a DLF or when defending a lead dropping you striker in the AMC slot as an AM? Just curious, besides the changes away from home, do you guys play with the same tactic? Like I said, I drop my mentality to counter and drop the line of engagement. (Not adjusting the final third).. 

 

The feedback is much appreciated!!

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You are spot on with your Goal Kick observations. Keeper distribution has always been aneurysm inducing in FM, and doesn't look likely to change. 

BBMs often get a high volume of key passes for my teams, so I wouldn't worry about that. The PPM color isn't something you should worry about, just make sure you want the player to do that.

And personally, I find counter and defensive to be a guaranteed way to concede an equalizer if you switch to them mid game. I go contain + time wasting or just keep it on balanced or above.

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13 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

100% agree with swopping the B2B and CM. Gives a channel for the B2B to run into (with the IWB covering behind) 👍 

As a question - how aerially strong are your IF and particularly your AF … ?

  Reveal hidden contents
  • As you have a WB to provide crosses in, but you’re only succeeding with 2-3 crosses out of 14-18 attempted. 
  • If your AF and IF are not aerially strong, then I’d change the WB to an IWB and change that CM to a B2B (or potentially an AP if I needed more chances created!)
  • The B2B will hit the channels, while the AP would drift centrally into the hole behind your AF/IF. 
  • You’d have zero width on that side (but you don’t have much now anyway!).
     
  • Example - as Man Utd - if Ronaldo is upfront, then I’d have McTominay / Fred as a CM and Shaw as a WB (just like your formation). But if I have Martial upfront, then I’d switch MCTominay / Fred to a B2B and Shaw to an IWB - more central passes, less useless crossing.

 
Also away from home, if the opposition play an AMC, then perhaps consider swopping your DMC to an Anchor role (I feel they stays in position more often).

Also depending on your ST’s attributes and PPMs, away from home (or defending a narrow lead) you could switch him to a DLF (assuming CM / B2B behind, typically don’t want an AP behind a DLF) or my personal favorite switch your ST to an AM/AP in the AMC role. Brilliant for keeping possession and your IF still presents a goal threat!

Changed striker to AM and my IF scored 4 in two games 👍

Thanks 👍

Screenshot_20220601-143815.jpg

Screenshot_20220601-143826.jpg

Screenshot_20220601-143831.jpg

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21 minutes ago, White Europe said:

Changed striker to AM and my IF scored 4 in two games 👍

Fsnrastic - if you watched the highlights, then did you see WHY your IF had those chances … ?

My general thoughts / observations below:

Spoiler

With your new formation …

  • Best = vs a formation without an opposition DMC (e.g. 4231 / 442) - an opposition MC (usually a BWM) on one side will drop back and cover their central DMC area where your AM is - which leaves a huge hole for either your B2B or CM on that side - for them to track the shade + play through balls into your IF ! This is beautiful.
     
  • Good = vs a formation with an opposition DMC (e.g. 41221) -  the opposition DMC will either (a) mark tightly your AM - which leaves a hole in front of the opposition defense for your CM / B2B / IF to move into and pass through … or (b) stay right in front of their two DCs and leave your AM with time + space to receive passes + play through balls. Either way is good
     
  • Struggles = vs an opposition back 3 (e.g. 532) - I haven’t tested this much, but my formation (like yours with the AMC) usually struggles more vs an opposition back 3. Perhaps their 3 DCs close off the through ball / passing lanes behind the defense? What ever the reason, you may find your tactic struggles a little more vs a back 3.

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

Fsnrastic - if you watched the highlights, then did you see WHY your IF had those chances … ?

My general thoughts / observations below:

  Hide contents

With your new formation …

  • Best = vs a formation without an opposition DMC (e.g. 4231 / 442) - an opposition MC (usually a BWM) on one side will drop back and cover their central DMC area where your AM is - which leaves a huge hole for either your B2B or CM on that side - for them to track the shade + play through balls into your IF ! This is beautiful.
     
  • Good = vs a formation with an opposition DMC (e.g. 41221) -  the opposition DMC will either (a) mark tightly your AM - which leaves a hole in front of the opposition defense for your CM / B2B / IF to move into and pass through … or (b) stay right in front of their two DCs and leave your AM with time + space to receive passes + play through balls. Either way is good
     
  • Struggles = vs an opposition back 3 (e.g. 532) - I haven’t tested this much, but my formation (like yours with the AMC) usually struggles more vs an opposition back 3. Perhaps their 3 DCs close off the through ball / passing lanes behind the defense? What ever the reason, you may find your tactic struggles a little more vs a back 3.

 

No i haven't watch highlights...im at work🙈

Edited by White Europe
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I was playing with this tactic, and i don't like playing wingers to much, so changed to something like this:

My PF drags CD away and SS with AF goes in the middle making 3 up front.

Screenshot_20220603-052209.jpg

Screenshot_20220603-052023.jpg

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That's my only worry, our libero number 6 on the picture below, he pushing very high sometimes leaving lone striker on his own.

Screenshot_20220603-092811.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 03/06/2022 at 01:50, White Europe said:

That's my only worry, our libero number 6 on the picture below, he pushing very high sometimes leaving lone striker on his own.

Screenshot_20220603-092811.jpg

He's a Libero. Of course he will move forward. If you want him to stay back then perhaps you want to change him to a BPD or something.

By the way, I put my BPD in the center of the back 3 and he barely makes any passes. Do you have any suggestions?

Edited by eternalaurora
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1 hour ago, eternalaurora said:

He's a Libero. Of course he will move forward. If you want him to stay back then perhaps you want to change him to a BPD or something.

By the way, I put my BPD in the center of the back 3 and he barely makes any passes. Do you have any suggestions?

I do change him to BDP when leading, i would like libero push up when we have the ball and not pressing up high leaving unmarked man behin him.

And yes goalkeeper distributing ball to two wide CD instead to BDP, and they go to WB or midfield.

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1 hour ago, DanEnglish said:

Or you could have TWO wide liberos (DRC and DLC) with a DC or Sweeper in the center 😵😎

Liberos are just a pointless, awful role. I'm not sure if you've tried this, but they will both move centrally and stand on top of each other directly in front of your central CB. Assuming they ever move forward. 99% of the time, Liberos will only move forward during opposition goal kicks, to make sure the opposing striker has a free run behind him.

Spoiler

Screenshot_20220605-072237.thumb.jpg.8b4c0c8e3669725df060533946bab4fe.jpg

In open play, liberos are just CDs. Here's two shots, both of open play build up well into the opposition final third. One is with two wider Liberos, one is with one central Libero. I bet you can tell which is which

Spoiler

Screenshot_20220605-072121.thumb.jpg.141a8df9f85aeebc3624ebbd564b254b.jpgScreenshot_20220605-071744.thumb.jpg.536c8fa989d01c220e43adfc7d923aba.jpg

😉

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4 hours ago, eternalaurora said:

He's a Libero. Of course he will move forward. If you want him to stay back then perhaps you want to change him to a BPD or something.

By the way, I put my BPD in the center of the back 3 and he barely makes any passes. Do you have any suggestions?

That's just the way that the game works. The central CD of a three will almost never touch the ball. Long passes from the opposition will be intercepted by the wider CDs, who will always look for a forward pass. Patient buildup just doesn't exist in FMM unfortunately, not does a realistic back 3. We would need the Wide CB role from normal FM in order to get that central BPD on the ball a bit more.

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9 hours ago, hhooo said:

That's just the way that the game works. The central CD of a three will almost never touch the ball. Long passes from the opposition will be intercepted by the wider CDs, who will always look for a forward pass. Patient buildup just doesn't exist in FMM unfortunately, not does a realistic back 3. We would need the Wide CB role from normal FM in order to get that central BPD on the ball a bit more.

Got it, thanks. Gonna swap my BPD to the right then.

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