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News FMM23 First Look and Headline Features


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9 minutes ago, hhooo said:

Wide CBs and a striker role that actually drops deep were my big hopes this year (maybe DLF got a tweak?).

Cool thanks for the detailed feedback - I'll have a think about the wide CB role and see if DLF needs tweaking further, that'll be for an update at this point but those seem sensible points.

Specific 'match' stuff I've done outside of teamtalks etc. as far as AI goes:
* Improved 'short distribution' both passing and for keepers, so you should see it better represented - you'll also see hysterical goals occassionally when a team tries to do it and fluffs their lines.
* Improved inside forward behavior so they don't just 'sit in the box' 
* Improved AI-defensive behavior from set-pieces (don't expect to be able to cheat score quite so many from corners, sorry, not sorry ;) ).
* General improvements/tweaks to movement and mentality for various positions - especially with regards to players in attacking AMC/MC roles getting forward a little more aggressively when you're playing an attacking style.

Let me know what you think once you've given it a whirl :D

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8 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

 

* Improved 'short distribution' both passing and for keepers, so you should see it better represented - you'll also see hysterical goals occassionally when a team tries to do it and fluffs their lines.
* Improved inside forward behavior so they don't just 'sit in the box' 
* Improved AI-defensive behavior from set-pieces (don't expect to be able to cheat score quite so many from corners, sorry, not sorry ;) ).
 

Back when I had time to play full fat FM (2011/12), GK distribution just about gave me an aneurysm. Very glad to hear these changes. The corner setups were definitely the biggest blight on this years edition. 

Edited by hhooo
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@Marc Vaughan- Thank you so much for appearing on here. SI do an incredible job with these games & we cannot fully understand how much effort & hard work goes into each & every update. I have personally played on the handheld version of the game since the beginning & have enjoyed each & every one.

That said & with all due respect, the updates this year do appear to be a tad lacking

Team talks are a great addition and will really immerse yourself in the game.

Initial thoughts are that the Development hub looks similar to what happens currently at the start of a new season with youth player intakes. Cannot see what is different with this?

The Manager profile initally just look like a asthetic change & not a major feature as such.

The UEFA compititons are great but again are just asthetics & not a fundamental gameplay change.

The Transfer & Loan updates look rather minor & you can get good feedback currently on this either by assistant managrt, player OR scouting. This doesnt impress me too much.

Interim Managers & Referee details also feels minor.

Where are the new big features to the core details of the game such as Tactics( False nine etc like PC version, we would like the same roles), New Leagues( wasnt it suppose to be one new league per year), Training( updates), Staff, Matches( 3D or at least improved to show more realistic stadium structures). Etc.

Please do not take this the wrong way, I love the game and will buy it this year and next years etc but just curious.

Please let us know how you feel on it? Is it due to Money, Time, Staff that these are the features this year?

Ta

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Team talks and a regen feature, I feel personally attacked 😂

Tbh nothing there excites me but nothing really worries me either, hardly anything to scream from the rooftops about though. 

Tbf only two things would have truly excited me and I didn't expect them so I don't feel disappointed. 

I said it the other day but honestly the thing I'm most excited about is 5 Subs in the Prem. Didn't think I'd still be saying that after the reveals mind 😂

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2 hours ago, SSolas said:

@Marc Vaughan- Thank you so much for appearing on here. SI do an incredible job with these games & we cannot fully understand how much effort & hard work goes into each & every update. I have personally played on the handheld version of the game since the beginning & have enjoyed each & every one.

That said & with all due respect, the updates this year do appear to be a tad lacking

Team talks are a great addition and will really immerse yourself in the game.

Initial thoughts are that the Development hub looks similar to what happens currently at the start of a new season with youth player intakes. Cannot see what is different with this?

The Manager profile initally just look like a asthetic change & not a major feature as such.

The UEFA compititons are great but again are just asthetics & not a fundamental gameplay change.

The Transfer & Loan updates look rather minor & you can get good feedback currently on this either by assistant managrt, player OR scouting. This doesnt impress me too much.

Interim Managers & Referee details also feels minor.

Where are the new big features to the core details of the game such as Tactics( False nine etc like PC version, we would like the same roles), New Leagues( wasnt it suppose to be one new league per year), Training( updates), Staff, Matches( 3D or at least improved to show more realistic stadium structures). Etc.

Please do not take this the wrong way, I love the game and will buy it this year and next years etc but just curious.

Please let us know how you feel on it? Is it due to Money, Time, Staff that these are the features this year?

Ta

For me it seems like a case of if it’s not broke don’t fix it. People always want to add more and more to the game but then you’ll end up losing the charm of it, and the “pick up and play” aspect of it. Game reminds me of the old Championship Manager games and I love that. I’d love to have time to play the full version but with a baby at home and a job it just isn’t viable so Mobile is perfect for me.

 

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As always, when new training system gets introduced, it will be broken af. Expecting development hub to be op. Disappointed that there’s no new tactical instructions, roles and leagues though.

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Well, I'm genuinely excited and can't wait. I don't want massive overhauls, I want fine touches and details every year. 

 

And besides, at this point I think I'd pay the £8 a year without a game, just to say thanks for my youth 😅

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All this updates are trash. Team talk 😂 manager profile 😂😂 are you kidding? You had 1 year and you did only this? 😂

There is only 1 reason to buy new version. Transfer updates.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Teamtalks has been designed on purpose to try and make it as non-tedious as possible - if you leave it 'be' then you'll do a balanced talk and it'll be much the same as playing previous versions of the game (and indeed you can disable the entire feature from preferences if you really want to upset me ;) ).

Smart 👍 

5 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Cool thanks for the detailed feedback - I'll have a think about the wide CB role and see if DLF needs tweaking further, that'll be for an update at this point but those seem sensible points.

Other roles people were hoping for:

  • Regista - see thread <here>
  • Half Back - drops between the two DCs, with the DCs splitting wide.
  • <probably some more I’ve forgotten>

If you wanted - post release we could setup a poll asking players which roles (or role tweaks) they want for FMM24 - would give you some extra guidance on what’s niche vs common.

5 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Specific 'match' stuff I've done outside of teamtalks etc. as far as AI goes:
* Improved 'short distribution' …
* Improved inside forward behavior …
* Improved AI-defensive behavior from set-pieces…
* General improvements/tweaks to movement and mentality for various positions

This is really good + I value this “stuff” 👍 

Cant wait to get started with it 😄 edit - thanks @Marc Vaughan for engaging with us here!

Edited by DanEnglish
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Great call on half-back @DanEnglish, but I would argue that should be natural behavior for other positions like anchor, or even DLP (or regista). I don't think it needs a separate role.

 

And I should not that you can sort of replicate this behavior with a DLP currently if you set up in a weird offset back line. Doing it centrally would obviously be better, but it's not totally impossible right now

 

Screenshot_2022-10-26-22-48-57-82_274ce8a533c0b976f2fb8c3dd2773c8d.jpg

Screenshot_2022-10-26-22-49-18-53_274ce8a533c0b976f2fb8c3dd2773c8d.jpg

Edited by hhooo
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9 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Out of interest - what sort of things do you want to see added and why do you think they'll improve the game/allow you to setup tactics that you can't do at present.

(in my view the mobile game is fairly detailed in terms of tactics already - ie. you can set specific roles, making instructions etc. for players etc.)

Was hoping similar Tactical/Player instructions that we get in the PC version. I know the mobile version is meant to be a lite version but more detailing would mean it will be more difficult to achieve success. 

Achieving success in mobile version is fairly easy in comparison with the PC version.

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Most these new role ideas seem like a somewhat easy fix of bringing the old "arrow" feature back. 

Have an arrow so your striker drops back or wide, have an arrow so your DMC drops into defence with arrows to push CBs wide, have an arrow so your 8 drifts to the wing and so on. The wide 8 is one I've often wanted due to how LFC play with Trent going in field, the right 8 to the wing, and Salah in the half space etc. 

I assume the arrow feature is still in there somewhere as we see it for some of the roles, unless they're just a visual thing. The arrow system would make many things possible though like a deep lying TM feeding knock ons to another striker or midfielder, creating back 3's when wingbacks push forward, or having a wide inverted APM and so on. 

Like I've said before though I'm just not a fan of the role system, most of them aren't even used by players tbf. The tactics system is bland and cookie cutter, as the main point of the game that's what I find frustrating. I just find it boring and restrictive, especially when we know the option for more input and freedom is technically there. I understand it's a fantastic system for pick up and play players and as a more casual game it makes sense, I just wish we had a little more for the die hard fans, especially as this engine is around a decade old so we know it inside and out. 

The push towards the moral systems in the last few releases via team talks, increased media and the like while the actual tactical gameplay has stagnated is such an own goal. If we hadn't of got set pieces which were a stupidly late readdition to the series what have we had tactically? Roaming playmaker and inverted winger only things popping into my mind ATM. 

I can't believe I'm saying this as it's something I was previously against but at this point FMM may as well be a live service game. 

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20 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Most these new role ideas seem like a somewhat easy fix of bringing the old "arrow" feature back. 

Have an arrow so your striker drops back or wide, have an arrow so your DMC drops into defence with arrows to push CBs wide, have an arrow so your 8 drifts to the wing and so on. The wide 8 is one I've often wanted due to how LFC play with Trent going in field, the right 8 to the wing, and Salah in the half space etc. 

I assume the arrow feature is still in there somewhere as we see it for some of the roles, unless they're just a visual thing. The arrow system would make many things possible though like a deep lying TM feeding knock ons to another striker or midfielder, creating back 3's when wingbacks push forward, or having a wide inverted APM and so on. 

Like I've said before though I'm just not a fan of the role system, most of them aren't even used by players tbf. The tactics system is bland and cookie cutter, as the main point of the game that's what I find frustrating. I just find it boring and restrictive, especially when we know the option for more input and freedom is technically there. I understand it's a fantastic system for pick up and play players and as a more casual game it makes sense, I just wish we had a little more for the die hard fans, especially as this engine is around a decade old so we know it inside and out. 

The push towards the moral systems in the last few releases via team talks, increased media and the like while the actual tactical gameplay has stagnated is such an own goal. If we hadn't of got set pieces which were a stupidly late readdition to the series what have we had tactically? Roaming playmaker and inverted winger only things popping into my mind ATM. 

I can't believe I'm saying this as it's something I was previously against but at this point FMM may as well be a live service game. 

As someone who wasn't around for this "arrow feature" is it entirely self explanatory? Or is there anything else I should know about it? 

It does sound very useful and I am very interested in why it was removed.

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1 hour ago, hhooo said:

As someone who wasn't around for this "arrow feature" is it entirely self explanatory? Or is there anything else I should know about it? 

It does sound very useful and I am very interested in why it was removed.

Not sure if it was ever in FMM/FMH, I can't remember now, but here is a screenshot I found on the Internet of CM01/02 (which I think FMM was based on):

Championship Manager 01/02 | Mike Atkins

There weren't roles like WB and FB etc, you just dragged the arrow where you wanted players to go. Here are some more screenshots:

Preston: The Original Invincibles - Page 9 -

E8ilzb3WEAE-ml2.png

I really liked that system, seemed pretty intuitive, and I'd love the ability to do something like that in FMM.

But I guess that was a simpler system and there are probably behavioral things built into modern roles that would be missing by simply telling the system "I want my CM to drop deep". Okay, but are they supposed to be a playmaker, a ball winner or something else.

But being able to combine the roles and the arrows would lead to a lot of possibilities! Great fun for us, but would probably make it impossible for SI Games to balance the match engine...

Edited by Scratch
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@Ashez I remember the series moving away from arrows, moving away from sliders, still have CM0102 loaded on my laptop 🙂 

Surely it’s very unlikely that SI will add arrows in addition to the existing roles? While it can be argued either way, they’d probably argue that it moves FM / FMM away from its ’be more realistic’ direction.

If they re-introduce arriws, they’d surely limit it to short arrows (to avoid crazy the crazy long arrows back in CM versions of DCs becoming wingers). As @Scratch said, it would be really tough to test & balance the match engine.

———————————————

As a Vibe community - I think we should have a sticked poll for the launch of FMM24, asking 2 questions like:

  1. ‘What direction do you want the FMM series to move towards’ …
  2. and ‘What features / improvements do you most want for FMM24/25’

This could be the central ‘voice of Vibe’ for SI to check out. Many more Vibers vote vs comment - so if we came up with a pretty comprehensive list - similar on style to this post (spoiler) then we could see what most Vibe people want. People could of course add comments as well as voting.

Spoiler

759B5349-687E-4457-A896-F61A1144BDC8.thumb.jpeg.2cca860cbeecb6e8b25a33821966ea15.jpeg

from <here>

Thoughts? 🙂 

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17 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

As a Vibe community - I think we should have a sticked poll for the launch of FMM24, asking 2 questions like:

  1. ‘What direction do you want the FMM series to move towards’ …
  2. and ‘What features / improvements do you most want for FMM24/25’

This could be the central ‘voice of Vibe’ for SI to check out. Many more Vibers vote vs comment - so if we came up with a pretty comprehensive list - similar on style to this post (spoiler) then we could see what most Vibe people want. People could of course add comments as well as voting.

This might be an unpopular opinion here, but although I think a poll would be great, the best way to get stuff into FMM24 isn't to talk about it here on Vibe, it's to talk about it over the SI Games forums.

The changes with the GKs playing out from the back better and IFs not just sitting in the box are both ones where people complained on the SI Games forum, Marc engaged them to better understand what they meant, then put it into the game. That's probably true of most of the changes actually, Marc often engages people with complaints suggestions there.

It'd be great if SI Games engaged here on Vibe more often (they do around launch time, then generally disappear), but I guess they're busy and they best way to get their attention is on their own site. Maybe we can hold polls, collate opinions here etc, then post it over there as a "Hey SI Games, this is what a large chunk of users think"?

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Firstly shout out to Agostinho - he was a beast. 
 

Second - good to hear that corners are being sorted out. 

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@hhooo @Scratch @DanEnglish Arrows and basically everything I usually request for FMM were already in the game, before they were removed. FMM used to be called FMH and originally began on the PSP, before a Duel release on mobile and PSP (very different games tbf), then the PSP version was cut and we were left with FMH mobile which was later rebranded to FMM. 

On the PSP game we had set pieces, no roles so we "built" them out of an options menu and so on. Then obviously linking back to the topic FMH had arrows too. 

That's my old PSP tactic, it's not the best showcase post wise but everything is there. The player instructions you could tinker with individually so basically we were creating our own roles. 

IIRC someone found these old files in FMM years ago, so I assume the new role system is somehow linked to this old system which makes sense. Can't remember if they were found before or after the EME though tbf. But if something like this is used all I want is the ability to "open up" a current role and tinker with these settings. I don't want the current system removed as I do think it has its uses, however I'd love to be able to tinker and have some individuality. I don't like how cookie cutter the role system is as my view of a BBM might different from someone else's and so on, while also being able to see these deeper settings would help us understand each role alot better. The in game description is naf, like honestly who really knows the difference between all the defensive mid roles 😂. Apart from the fact none of them work ratings wise 😂😂

1 hour ago, DanEnglish said:

@Ashez I remember the series moving away from arrows, moving away from sliders, still have CM0102 loaded on my laptop 🙂 

Surely it’s very unlikely that SI will add arrows in addition to the existing roles? While it can be argued either way, they’d probably argue that it moves FM / FMM away from its ’be more realistic’ direction.

If they re-introduce arriws, they’d surely limit it to short arrows (to avoid crazy the crazy long arrows back in CM versions of DCs becoming wingers). As @Scratch said, it would be really tough to test & balance the match engine.

———————————————

As a Vibe community - I think we should have a sticked poll for the launch of FMM24, asking 2 questions like:

  1. ‘What direction do you want the FMM series to move towards’ …
  2. and ‘What features / improvements do you most want for FMM24/25’

This could be the central ‘voice of Vibe’ for SI to check out. Many more Vibers vote vs comment - so if we came up with a pretty comprehensive list - similar on style to this post (spoiler) then we could see what most Vibe people want. People could of course add comments as well as voting.

  Reveal hidden contents

759B5349-687E-4457-A896-F61A1144BDC8.thumb.jpeg.2cca860cbeecb6e8b25a33821966ea15.jpeg

from <here>

Thoughts? 🙂 

That's what Vibe has always been, personally I don't think it makes much difference. 

Like it or not we're the FMM niche, FMM is meant to be a casual game for casual players. A gateway game to FM/T. Thankfully it's created its own fantastic community and imo we've took the game to fantastic heights but we'll always be the niche. 

One of the most requested features in series history was squad numbers. Not tactical upgrades, but squad numbers. Now the hyped request seems to be 3D engines. I honestly struggle to believe that squad numbers was more desirable than set pieces 😂

Anyway history has shown SI do pay attention to what we say though, which I know we all appreciate. 

Here is a conversation @Marc Vaughanand myself had about set pieces in 2018. 

Screenshot_20221027_105239_com.android.chrome.thumb.jpg.81e31f1a7910ce6097bc1f68f7bf8c28.jpg

Sounds familiar hey 😂

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8 hours ago, Shaanmann said:

Was hoping similar Tactical/Player instructions that we get in the PC version. I know the mobile version is meant to be a lite version but more detailing would mean it will be more difficult to achieve success. 

Achieving success in mobile version is fairly easy in comparison with the PC version.

You should find achieving success a little more challenging this year - although I am also trying to keep things balanced and playable for new/more casual users so as always its impossible to please everyone all of the time.

PS - With regards to tactical/instruction depth - I'm afraid the mobile game won't ever reach that of the PC game simply because it'd be too overwhelming for the playing style I'm going for with this product (sorry I know that isn't what you want to hear). My aim is to ensure that people can set things up tactically the way they want in a simple and easy to understand manner (for this reason I'll be looking at adding more roles etc. in future versions - but trying not to add in too many additional aspects to tactics as say 'attack/support/defense' over-laying the player roles makes things a lot more confusing imho as the roles themselves already imply an attacking/support/defensive mentality imho).

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and maybe  defencive/counter   shape will be playble this year?    

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34 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

You should find achieving success a little more challenging this year - although I am also trying to keep things balanced and playable for new/more casual users so as always its impossible to please everyone all of the time.

PS - With regards to tactical/instruction depth - I'm afraid the mobile game won't ever reach that of the PC game simply because it'd be too overwhelming for the playing style I'm going for with this product (sorry I know that isn't what you want to hear). My aim is to ensure that people can set things up tactically the way they want in a simple and easy to understand manner (for this reason I'll be looking at adding more roles etc. in future versions - but trying not to add in too many additional aspects to tactics as say 'attack/support/defense' over-laying the player roles makes things a lot more confusing imho as the roles themselves already imply an attacking/support/defensive mentality imho).

Don't you think even the average fan is getting "smarter/in the know" though? Football media is changing and across TV broadcasting, social media, YouTube, podcasting and fan accounts I think fans are getting smarter. Maybe as a Liverpool fan I'm blessed with the amount of content at my finger tips but even things like MNF are expanding the "knowledgeable" fan base. 

It's one reason why I'd love FMM to push more into the stats side of things if we've reached its tactical limit. Granted it is a somewhat biased viewpoint as I understand I'm interested in it partly due to the whole money ball type stuff, associated with clubs like Liverpool, Brentford and Brighton but I think it would be an unique approach and offer a different type of optional gameplay. I just think it would bring the game to life as it would give us more information in match while also transforming the transfer market completely as we'd have more to look at than a player profile. If we had historical stats for players like XG/XA, tackle success and so on we'd be opening a whole new world to the game. 

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2 minutes ago, Ashez said:

It's one reason why I'd love FMM to push more into the stats side of things if we've reached its tactical limit. Granted it is a somewhat biased viewpoint as I understand I'm interested in it partly due to the whole money ball type stuff, associated with clubs like Liverpool, Brentford and Brighton but I think it would be an unique approach and offer a different type of optional gameplay. I just think it would bring the game to life as it would give us more information in match while also transforming the transfer market completely as we'd have more to look at than a player profile. If we had historical stats for players like XG/XA, tackle success and so on we'd be opening a whole new world to the game. 

100% agree

Though understand there may be limits due to old phone capability / storage sizes, but ‘the more the better’ for me. Could it be an option in preferences like team talks 😛 or a low-data / max-data option in the save game setup?

More stats (inc xG!) is very realistic. Most big clubs have  stats departments / agencies working on this for them.

On a club level - we really need xG in the game. Both to (1) show ‘why did I get FMM’ed?!’ when losing 1-0 while have 20 long shots and (2) show whether you’re underperforming because you create poor quality chances, or because your players aren’t converting them!

On a player level - it would also be helpful to understand if (as an example) Martial or Rashford is doing a better job upfront:

  • I can only see Martial’s total goals + total assists + total AvR (over a season so far)
  • BUT can’t see Martial’s total shots, total SoT, total CCC … let alone xG, non-penalty xG etc!

Just some thoughts. 

————————————

PS. Thank you @Marc Vaughan. Regardless of some details and tone on these discussions, you and the team have put in years of work into something we all love.

Just like our friends and families, we all have things we’d like to improve with them (somehow they get annoyed when you ask them for an urgent new feature request?!) but just like FMM, we love them all the same. Thank you.

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Some extra updates from @Marc Vaughan on the SI forum …

(1) B teams + Reserve Teams

831ECE54-F455-44B4-AB40-27EC8AEFC9D0.thumb.jpeg.bcc6294ea7d6adac99812aea299c11c6.jpeg


(2) Additional Roles?! 

398CA8E1-D498-40C2-B5C1-F59AE5D46DE4.thumb.jpeg.c640cd1f272ae6c96617a0570f79e256.jpeg

Note - on the previous page, Marc said:

Quote

“The roles are much the same as before - although users requested that specific ones were available in areas which didn't have them previously which I did, I've also revised the AI for some of them to be more realistic (ie. how inside forwards operate etc.).

 
(3) No New Leagues 

D1BD0B02-8697-4C10-B0D2-9AE46D27C6D2.thumb.jpeg.14c2e4d47999afc420a98544cbc3e5fe.jpeg

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44 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

when losing 1-0 while have 20 long shots and (

I'd rather the option to open up the role and turn off long shots 😛

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8 hours ago, Scratch said:

Not sure if it was ever in FMM/FMH, I can't remember now, but here is a screenshot I found on the Internet of CM01/02 (which I think FMM was based on):

Championship Manager 01/02 | Mike Atkins

There weren't roles like WB and FB etc, you just dragged the arrow where you wanted players to go. Here are some more screenshots:

Preston: The Original Invincibles - Page 9 -

E8ilzb3WEAE-ml2.png

I really liked that system, seemed pretty intuitive, and I'd love the ability to do something like that in FMM.

But I guess that was a simpler system and there are probably behavioral things built into modern roles that would be missing by simply telling the system "I want my CM to drop deep". Okay, but are they supposed to be a playmaker, a ball winner or something else.

But being able to combine the roles and the arrows would lead to a lot of possibilities! Great fun for us, but would probably make it impossible for SI Games to balance the match engine...

Heh - one of my earlier games - loved that one :D

It might interest you to know that there is 'kinda' the same system in our current match engine and the arrows that display on the tactics for various roles are basically what you see on those tactics pages but its driven largely by the roles rather than allowing you to draw them free-hand these days.

The reasoning for this is multi-fold tbh ..
(1) The amount of weird 'cheats' you can create by dragging the arrows in weird places was amazing.
(2) It would allow people to create 'bugs' in their role behavior - ie. if someone is set as an inside forward but you dragged their arrow back into defense what should he do with regards to behavior etc.
(3) On a touch screen device its really complex allowing people to do multiple options easily - at the moment you can drag a player on a pitch, double tap to change his role - allowing someone to set an arrow would be a further level of complexity and a step (potentially) too far for some users imho.

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I'm all for per player instructions, only things such as passing style, long shots, stick to position etc. I get that the roles do this somewhat, and have their default settings but being able to tweak them individually would be amazing. 

You mentioned "weird cheats" @Marc Vaughan. Have you seen the challenges on this site? We get a kick out of making tactics that give ridiculous, unreal results 😆 Granted that isn't what everyone wants though. Maybe a toggle function so that those that want simplified tactics can have them? Seeing as the functionality is pretty much there I don't see how this could be a bad thing?

P.S As much as I gripe, CM and FM/M have kept me going since I was a kid. I'll put the griping down to old age. Thanks for the great games, and it's really appreciated the effort you go through each year to keep touch with your player base!

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3 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

My aim is to ensure that people can set things up tactically the way they want in a simple and easy to understand manner (for this reason I'll be looking at adding more roles etc. in future versions - but trying not to add in too many additional aspects to tactics as say 'attack/support/defense' over-laying the player roles makes things a lot more confusing imho as the roles themselves already imply an attacking/support/defensive mentality imho).

It would be useful to what instructions each role has as its presets. Sometimes it’s a bit of trial and error to see which role fits your formation best and how they behave - if we knew exactly how each role differed or what each role was set to do it would help inform tactics. 

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53 minutes ago, Chris said:

You mentioned "weird cheats" @Marc Vaughan. Have you seen the challenges on this site? We get a kick out of making tactics that give ridiculous, unreal results 😆 Granted that isn't what everyone wants though. Maybe a toggle function so that those that want simplified tactics can have them? Seeing as the functionality is pretty much there I don't see how this could be a bad thing?

Yeah I know that and that is as valid a way to play the game as any, part of the challenge for me is trying to make as many people as possible happy with each version while trying not to alienate anyone ;)

A couple of iterations ago man-marking was added - perhaps if 'long-shots' was added in a similar manner that might interest people? - so you could turn it on for specific players?

53 minutes ago, Chris said:

P.S As much as I gripe, CM and FM/M have kept me going since I was a kid. I'll put the griping down to old age. Thanks for the great games, and it's really appreciated the effort you go through each year to keep touch with your player base!

Thanks for the kind words, it's much appreciated (speaking as someone who was up until 1am fixing issues last night, getting close to finalizing this years version now :D ).

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27 minutes ago, MikeF said:

It would be useful to what instructions each role has as its presets. Sometimes it’s a bit of trial and error to see which role fits your formation best and how they behave - if we knew exactly how each role differed or what each role was set to do it would help inform tactics. 

There is an English description for each role - this is my preferred way of explaining things because the underlyiing code and what it 'sets' might not really make sense to people.

To give you an idea of the complexity - for inside forwards there are specific 'instructions' which are set depending on the formation you setup, for instance if you have a crowded area then they'll behave slightly differently to if you're playing with a solo striker - simply put if you've three forwards in the box.

The areas they run into are similarly affected by the instructions and setup of the rest of your tactic - ie. if they make a run into the box they'll try and avoid running into areas where other players are likely to be positioned.

In real-terms using the CM3 arrow analogy this changes the positioning of the arrow slightly to try and optimize things to be more effective for the user (and keep things sane ;) ) ... the idea is to help users while simplifying the interface.

In a perfect world the idea is that people will understand the roles from their real-life watching of the sport and that the game will cause the players on the pitch to behave in the manner people expect from their roles, I'll happily accept that there are areas where this can be improved and I'm always striving to do so with each iteration.

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