Tactics The Black Hawk (... or a quest to make IFs to work) [4123]

[BarnDoor]

Managed to find the link to the topic. Whoever is interested in official statement can check it HERE

[Black Hawk]

On 31/01/2023 at 18:33, Legend288 said:

 

I'm laughing so hard because I started a second season with Man Utd to see how the team performs with some chances on the lineup, signed in two strikers... Scamacca and Osimhen, just like you did

I'll try to post my own feedback about the first season soon.

On 31/01/2023 at 21:38, BarnDoor said:

I've tried this tactics on my ManUtd save which was already 10 games into the first season so it's not a full season test, but it's close to it... Didn't plan on posting anything so I've got no screenshots, but I'll try to write a recap.

As far as the transfers go, I've always intended to keep it realistic in that save, so there were no big signings. Only swapped Ronaldo for Weghorst in january to match the real life situation.

Ok, let's get to the tactics. The fact that OP claimed that IFs were productive was what made me try it out. My 2 main IFs (Sancho and Antony) were pretty bad before I started using this tactics. In 10 games that I had already played they both had only 1 goal. Sancho had maybe 2 or 3 assists, while Antony was still stuck on 0. Pretty disappointing... And that was why I've abandoned this save for a few weeks. Then I've stumbled upon this post and decided to give it a shot. And the results are...

Both Antony and Sancho finished the season with about 35-40 games and they've each scored 20+ and added 10+ assists. Keep in mind they have already played 10 games (and scored 1 goal each) before I started using this tactics. Rashford was my main striker and top scorer, but not by a large margin. He was in low 30s I believe. My CMs chipped in with a few, but I don't think any of them has scored more than 5 for the entire season. Wingbacks were quite effective, especially with Weghorst up front. They both had double digit assists (with 13-14 crossing only). CDs did their job well, nothing special to add there. 

Overall, I'd say we were scoring around 3 goals per game and we've conceded very little. Maybe around 10-15 league goals. I really don't know, it's not a stat that I usually look at. We've lost 2 league games and 1 cup game and had a couple of draws (around 4-5) for the entire season. Won the league, won Europa, won Carabao, but unfortunately got knocked out from the FA cup. The tactics worked great against weaker opponents, as well the stronger ones. We were hammering the likes of league 2 teams by 5-0 almost every time, but we've also scored 4 or 5 against Chelsea, City, Liverpool... Draws and losses mostly came when I was trying to rest my main players.

Overall, I was impressed with the tactics. Effective, fun to play with, involves most of the players in scoring/assists and it actually does make your IFs a significant factor. Good work!

That numbers are actually insane, you got more of them (thr IFs) than I ever could.

If I understood it correctly, you used Anthony (right) and Sancho (left) with Rashford as main striker? I couldn't put Anthony producing much in the first season, but the guy had two injuries who may have took some of his ability, I've seen it happening before. Sancho, on the other hand, didn't work at all by the right, I had to move Rashford there to use Sancho on the left. There he is very good.

What you said on your last paragraph is what I wanted to make. There's a lot of tactics that make you win, some make you score a lot more than this tactic, but I don't want to only win, I want to have fun seeing the games and be surprised with different ways my players get to score.

The easiest way is to have a strong header as striker and put wingers to cross, but in no time the games become dull. I wanted more. I hope this tactic helps anyone who seeks the same as me.

Oh, regarding the IFs discussion, I quit that battle. I actually did a post on SI Forum a while ago explaining what was wrong with IFs, annexed printscreens of some games to show how IFs were not where they are supposed to be or doing what they are supposed to do. Oh well, I just went with it and try to make the most of what we have.

[Black Hawk]

After the test with Man City, I went across the street (not literally, but you get the idea) and tested the tactic with Man Utd. It was actually a very interesting test and it cleared up a few doubts that remained from the previous tests.

First things first, about the squad. I gained a newfound respect for Erik Ten Hag. Man Utd have some good players, but they also have some that are just a little more than mediocre for this level and others that have been nerfed in relation to reality. The squad starts the season without any relationships between them. The first eleven I chose, for the first pre-season game, shows that. As the tactic sometimes takes time to start clicking in some teams, it soon became clear that the first few months would be critical.

About the players, some where nowhere near what I expected. For example, Diogo Dalot and Malacia seem much better in the real world than in FM Mobile. Luke Shaw is strange, he is rated much higher than his attributes suggest and is not very consistent in the match engine. Of the centre-backs, Phil Jones and Harry Maguire were ruked out right away, even I am faster than them. Lisandro Martínez should have been much better and Varane turns out to be the only defender that I consider to be really good for the level of a top tier English team.

Still, Man Utd's big problem is the attack. Cristiano Ronaldo and Anthony Martial.

Cristiano is the FM player closest to his real self I've ever seen. He is always pinned in the area waiting for the ball (despite being a Pressing Forward), he doesn't match with his teammates, he shoots whenever the ball gets to him, wherever he is. This tactic also depends a lot on the movement without the ball of the striker to create spaces for the IFs and Box-to-Box to enter the area to exploit them. With Cristiano, this works badly.

Martial is an odd one. He's perpetually dissatisfied, his morale drops for no apparent reason, at one point he was dissatisfied with not letting him leave for Newcastle. He ended up scoring a few goals, but it doesn't give the team the presence it needs up front.

So, I initially only wanted to bring a centre back (I brought Jean-Clair Todibo again). Then, I lost Aaron Wan-Bissaka to a five month injury and Scott McTominay to a two months injury, both still in preseason. That left me with the need of two players, so I bought Pedro Porro from Sporting CP and found Youri Tielemans on the transfer list, so I took him too.

Tielemans proved to be a mistake, but I didn't knew it at the time.

Anyway, was with this that I did the whole season.

The final result was very positive, as you can see from the printscreens, but they do not describe the difficulties we had in the first months.

The first times were very difficult. We were winning, but many of the victories were thanks to our individual quality in games that could have been draws or even defeats. Rashford came into the World Cup break with 10 goals and 11 assists playing as a left IF, an impressive number for an IF, it almost looked like I was playing Mobile 22. He was our top scorer at the time.

Only at the end of October, beginning of November, did I start to see the first plays that I am used to from other tests with this tactic. From then on everything went well, we only failed in the FA Cup which was played three days after the Europa League final.

The Europa League final went into extra time, which left us on our knees to face Liverpool three days later. Interestingly, this also went to extra time, almost everyone's fitness was already in the red. We still resisted until the 121st minute when we finally conceded the decisive goal.

There are some stats that are consistent with the other tests and that are not worth talking about again, like the assists of the Wing Backs or the offensive propensity of the Roaming Playmaker who always has good numbers of goals and assists.

Here what is different is mainly in the attack. Cristiano and Martial together don't make a Haaland. God, they don't even have the numbers that Raúl Jiménez had in the Wolves test, Paulinho in Sporting CP or Butzke in Paços de Ferreira. What's worse, the two together only made 3 assists, which shows how neither of them get involved in the team's offensive football. They were bad Pressing Forwards. Even scoring 46 goals between them, they hurt the team's moves a lot.

Rashford in November was going for huge numbers playing as left IF (10 goals and 11 assists), but I had to move him to the right and that hurt him a bit. I did it because Anthony was injured twice before the World Cup and when he came back he didn't have any impact on the team, so much so that I ended up trading him for Sancho... who on the right also didn't perform. Before January, the two together had 1 goal and 2 assists...

From the moment I put Rashford on the right and Sancho on the left, the latter exploded and was in time to make respectable numbers, especially considering that almost all his goals and assists came from January onwards. Anthony was also in time to add good numbers in the same period, as an alternative to Rashford on the right. I'm curious to see what Anthony will do next season.

Total numbers: my IFs scored 29 times and performed 42 assists to our total 133 goals, which is more than 50% of direct contributions to goal. It was the best score of my IFs in any test until now even with Anthony and Sancho underperforming the first half of the season.

Bruno Fernandes ended up doing numbers very similar to those of Kevin De Bruyne, which was something I imagined would happen. Tielemans, which I used as a right Box-to-Box for a long time, had a modest performance and I can't explain why. My theory is that because he is right footed and plays on the centre right of the field, he ends up looking too much for the pass to Pedro Porro (Bruno Fernandes playing on the centre left pulls the ball into the middle because he is right footed). But Eriksen playing in Tielemans' position often looked for the inside of the field. I can't explain exactly what went wrong with Tielemans.

So, final thoughts:

1) some teams require time for the tactic to work. I already knew that, but now I understand better why. The two tests where I noticed this the most were with Amora and Man Utd. These two have in common starting the season with no relations between the players. It seems to be the criterion for defining how long it can take for the tactic to start clicking.

2) Not sure, but it seems to me that IFs and Box-to-Box work better with switched feet (right footed by the left and left footed by the right). In Sancho's case that was clear, in Tielemans' case it's my idea. I could be wrong, though.

3) The striker works best if it has Aerial, Aggression and Movement, but it's also good to have some Teamwork. Criatiano is selfish on the field and it didn't work. The tactic needs a striker who retreats to create spaces, gives passing lines and do one-twos with his teammates so that they can invade the opponent's area.

I'm going to do the second season, reinforcing a little some positions that can be improved, and compare the results with this first season.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Black Hawk

[BarnDoor]

Ok, ok, hold on... The Martial/Newcastle thing is exactly what happened in my save as well 😂 it was my biggest regret of the season that I didn't let him leave.

To answer your question - yes, I've played Sancho on the left, Antony on the right and Rashy in the middle. CR7 and Martial were backups, as well as Elanga and Garnacho, but none of them was impactful. Once i brought in Weghorst he was able to contribute, but overall we lacked depth.

Btw, how the heck did you get so much out of Bruno? You played him at the left CM position as B2B? That's what I did but he only had half of your numbers 😕

 

[Black Hawk]

17 hours ago, BarnDoor said:

Ok, ok, hold on... The Martial/Newcastle thing is exactly what happened in my save as well 😂 it was my biggest regret of the season that I didn't let him leave.

To answer your question - yes, I've played Sancho on the left, Antony on the right and Rashy in the middle. CR7 and Martial were backups, as well as Elanga and Garnacho, but none of them was impactful. Once i brought in Weghorst he was able to contribute, but overall we lacked depth.

Btw, how the heck did you get so much out of Bruno? You played him at the left CM position as B2B? That's what I did but he only had half of your numbers 😕

 

Yeah, they offered 21M or 22M for Martial, I don't recall exactly which, I turned down the offer because that would leave me with only Cristiano. Starting second season I can't get rid of him. He has some clubs interested in him, but no one proposes anything. I've even offered him to all clubs on a free transfer, but no luck. If I knew this at the time...

About Bruno, I don't know ahah. I play him as left B2B, didn't change anything. He did score from maybe 4 or 5 penalty kicks whenever Cristiano wasn't on the pitch, but the rest I can't explain.

What I did notice is that every save and even every season has some differences on the performance of players. For example, Rashford in this season scored 10 goals until November, but on the second season I'm already in 8th game of Premier League and he is still to score one. But other players are scoring more. 

It's actually one things I like with this tactic, it doesn't rely on a single player, when someone is underperforming the team tries to find other ways to find the goal.

[BarnDoor]

Yeah, its weird how some players have different seasons... For me, right now, Bruno is actually playing like he did on your save. Maybe he just needed a few upgrade points...

Antony has finished in top3 for player of the year award in my first season, but in the 2nd one he misses wide open shots after dribbling past the keeper 😂

It can be frustrating at times, but it adds to the fun in some way.

[Schwantz34]

After not too successful spells with Leeds and Schalke whilst messing with some tactics and getting fired from both, I noticed the Forest Green job was open in the summer of 2024 and thought why not. I decided to give this tactic a test with them and this is how it went;

Most Used 11

Final Table

Transfers In

Transfers Out

Goals

Assists

Results

Promotion earned! The squad they already had was mainly used up until January when the backline was reinforced and a couple more loans in to help with rotation. Hilton and Briggs weren't my signings and didn't get used, being signed just before I took the job. As you can see the IF were effective meaning some of the pressure was taken of the striker and goals were shared out well among the forward line. I think things will continue to improve once better players are added and you can see the run we finished on once new players were up to speed with things.

Definitely a good tactic 👍

[Lilyay]

Can you please copy the tactics and send it as a file, so much easier that way

[Schwantz34]

2 hours ago, Lilyay said:

Can you please copy the tactics and send it as a file, so much easier that way

It really isn't.

Would take you less than two minutes to just set the instructions from reading it on here.

[TehSpaceGiraffe]

Had to abandon my Southampton save due to my tablet having a funny and I had to factory reset. Started again with Dortmund, a team I've always liked but never played with

It was always going to be difficult to reel in Bayern, and the tactic only really kicked in the last third of the season, going on a great run of form but too late, Bayern were already 18 points clear. Happy we were some way clear of 3rd at least, especially considering we had to sell a few good players, but I dont want low morale in the team so if they want to go I'll accept the offer, everyone is replaceable.

Had a decent start to the season, followed by a really bad part of the season, some of it due to injuries, individual errors, general rotation and unfamiliarity with the tactic I guess. I also tried a few games where I made tweaks to improve it but they really didn't help. But a superb end to the season with a great run of form and winning the German cup. 

I think you can pinpoint the game where the thing finally clicked. Not all the players suited the system too so that didn't help

Poulsen and Gouiri definitely carried us the last 7 or 8 games particularly Gouiri he was our main source of goals. I didn't choose Forsberg in my best 11 as most of his goals and assists came in the first half of the season. Moukoko was much more dangerous in the second half. 

Only thing is I am very disappointed in the 2 BBM's they really didn't do much to affect games either up front or at the back. The signing of Tufan was a mistake he was really bad didn't impress in those games. Hopefully next season I'll have some improvement especially from Cristante who, in theory, is really suited to his role 

This is a really good tactic when you have the right players and once they've got used to it, definitely worth putting the effort in to it 

[Black Hawk]

On 04/02/2023 at 14:04, Schwantz34 said:

After not too successful spells with Leeds and Schalke whilst messing with some tactics and getting fired from both, I noticed the Forest Green job was open in the summer of 2024 and thought why not. I decided to give this tactic a test with them and this is how it went;

Most Used 11

Final Table

Transfers In

Transfers Out

Goals

Assists

Results

Promotion earned! The squad they already had was mainly used up until January when the backline was reinforced and a couple more loans in to help with rotation. Hilton and Briggs weren't my signings and didn't get used, being signed just before I took the job. As you can see the IF were effective meaning some of the pressure was taken of the striker and goals were shared out well among the forward line. I think things will continue to improve once better players are added and you can see the run we finished on once new players were up to speed with things.

Definitely a good tactic 👍

I don't know how good or what is expected from Forest Green. Are they contenders for promotion on League Two? Did the team overperformed or was it expected from them?

I'm trying to discover from your players stats what happened on match engine. Snelgrove and Lockett arrived on loan in January? If so, their stats are insane. Well, they are good even in a full season, but are over the moon if only in six months.

Your B2B scored and assisted many times, I can assume your team actually played a lot through the middle. It doesn't happen every time with underdog teams in my tests, their B2B always tried to play it simple and that means they often search for the Wing Backs. Did you use inverted B2B (as in right footed on the left and left footed on the right)?

In those last eight games you only conceded two times, both in 3-1 wins. I assume by that time your time was much more effective in possession and didn't lose the ball so often to get exposed to counters?

As for me, right now I'm close to finish my second season with Man Utd and I'm about to test some tweaks - probably will do that in third season. The main doubts I have right now is if the team performs better with two real B2B (players like Declan Rice, whose avery key attributes for that role are green) or with a partnership of one offensive midfielder like Bruno Fernandes and another defensive one. First season I played mainly with Bruno Fernandes and Erikson and we suffered a bit to control thr game against stronger opponents like Liverpool or City.

Also, I want to see how it goes with ball playing defenders instead of only centre backs and maybe how a sweeper keeper will work.

4 hours ago, TehSpaceGiraffe said:

Had to abandon my Southampton save due to my tablet having a funny and I had to factory reset. Started again with Dortmund, a team I've always liked but never played with

It was always going to be difficult to reel in Bayern, and the tactic only really kicked in the last third of the season, going on a great run of form but too late, Bayern were already 18 points clear. Happy we were some way clear of 3rd at least, especially considering we had to sell a few good players, but I dont want low morale in the team so if they want to go I'll accept the offer, everyone is replaceable.

Had a decent start to the season, followed by a really bad part of the season, some of it due to injuries, individual errors, general rotation and unfamiliarity with the tactic I guess. I also tried a few games where I made tweaks to improve it but they really didn't help. But a superb end to the season with a great run of form and winning the German cup. 

I think you can pinpoint the game where the thing finally clicked. Not all the players suited the system too so that didn't help

Poulsen and Gouiri definitely carried us the last 7 or 8 games particularly Gouiri he was our main source of goals. I didn't choose Forsberg in my best 11 as most of his goals and assists came in the first half of the season. Moukoko was much more dangerous in the second half. 

Only thing is I am very disappointed in the 2 BBM's they really didn't do much to affect games either up front or at the back. The signing of Tufan was a mistake he was really bad didn't impress in those games. Hopefully next season I'll have some improvement especially from Cristante who, in theory, is really suited to his role 

This is a really good tactic when you have the right players and once they've got used to it, definitely worth putting the effort in to it 

Funny thing, a lot of people (myself included) are reporting the same thing, the tactic starts clicking late season (somewhere between November and January) and is giving strong runs by the end of season.

I believe that's a mix of players not being the right players for the roles and the tactic being very demanding, it only works if players are able to work like a machine. If someone screws, things go south. So it takes time. Right now, as I've said, I'm playing a second season with Man Utd and things are going so smoothly that I almost just have to manage their fitness.

This tactic is not intended to score a lot, but your team really scored less than expected. But I can see that the last half of season they were scoring regularly, maybe it really was from unfamiliarity with the tactic.

Give us some feedback of your second season

Also, thanks guys from your support. Hope I'm helping people have fun with the game.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Black Hawk

[Schwantz34]

18 minutes ago, Black Hawk said:

I don't know how good or what is expected from Forest Green. Are they contenders for promotion on League Two? Did the team overperformed or was it expected from them?

I'm trying to discover from your players stats what happened on match engine. Snelgrove and Lockett arrived on loan in January? If so, their stats are insane. Well, they are good even in a full season, but are over the moon if only in six months.

Your B2B scored and assisted many times, I can assume your team actually played a lot through the middle. It doesn't happen every time with underdog teams in my tests, their B2B always tried to play it simple and that means they often search for the Wing Backs. Did you use inverted B2B (as in right footed on the left and left footed on the right)?

In those last eight games you only conceded two times, both in 3-1 wins. I assume by that time your time was much more effective in possession and didn't lose the ball so often to get exposed to counters?

As for me, right now I'm close to finish my second season with Man Utd and I'm about to test some tweaks - probably will do that in third season. The main doubts I have right now is if the team performs better with two real B2B (players like Declan Rice, whose avery key attributes for that role are green) or with a partnership of one offensive midfielder like Bruno Fernandes and another defensive one. First season I played mainly with Bruno Fernandes and Erikson and we suffered a bit to control thr game against stronger opponents like Liverpool or City.

Also, I want to see how it goes with ball playing defenders instead of only centre backs and maybe how a sweeper keeper will work.

Funny thing, a lot of people (myself included) are reporting the same thing, the tactic starts clicking late season (somewhere between November and January) and is giving strong runs by the end of season.

I believe that's a mix of players not being the right players for the roles and the tactic being very demanding, it only works if players are able to work like a machine. If someone screws, things go south. So it takes time. Right now, as I've said, I'm playing a second season with Man Utd and things are going so smoothly that I almost just have to manage their fitness.

This tactic is not intended to score a lot, but your team really scored less than expected. But I can see that the last half of season they were scoring regularly, maybe it really was from unfamiliarity with the tactic.

Give us some feedback of your second season

Also, thanks guys from your support. Hope I'm helping people have fun with the game.

They wanted mid table but note it was the 24-25 season when I got the job, so I don't know what they ask on a brand new save. Snelgrove and Lockett were full season loans. The defence got better by adding some better defenders in January and that combined with the tactic really clicking in the final stretch made the difference.

I had left footed B2B on the right and right footer on the left in midfield.

[BarnDoor]

I've just finished my 2nd season with Man Utd with this tactic (and some minor tweaks) and I'm still equally impressed by it. I'll try to make some screenshots and write a recap tomorrow.

Can't wait for @Black Hawk to finish his 2nd season so we can compare 😁

[TehSpaceGiraffe]

44 minutes ago, Black Hawk said:

The main doubts I have right now is if the team performs better with two real B2B (players like Declan Rice, whose avery key attributes for that role are green) or with a partnership of one offensive midfielder like Bruno Fernandes and another defensive one. 

This! I wondered whether 2 dedicated midfielders rather than 2 all purpose ones might help at either end. Definitely worth exploring

[BarnDoor]

Ok, so... Here's my recap of the 2nd season with Man Utd using this tactic.

After a very successful first season, we have continued the good form, and this year we have absolutely demolished anyone who stood on our path to glory. We've won all 4 trophies (EPL, FA Cup, Carabao and ECL), but unfortunately we didn't achieve the "unbeatable" status. Damn you, Fulham! (And some others I can't remember atm).

Stats:

Spoiler

Defense was pretty solid, we didn't concede many goals. I know no one cares about GK stats, but I had to include them to show off De Gea's assists 😁 Also, I have tweaked the tactics here - playing SK instead of regular G because I've noticed in the previous season that we conceded quite a few goals from counters and 1 on 1 situations.

Spoiler

Out CDs were very solid as well, but also managed to score quite a few goals from corners. I used the default corner strategy, and most of these assists go to Bruno (keep that in mind when checking his stats below).

Spoiler

Our WBs have delivered a decent amount of assists considering that we didn't really have any strikers with good aerial ability. Davies was a january signing, that's why his numbers are a bit low. Before signing him, we've had Malacia playing there as a backup to Shaw. Wan-Bissaka has been a huge surprise, especially since he didn't really improve his abilities from the first season, but in the limited play time he was very efficient. Also, sometimes I've played them as IWBs, switching left footed guys to the right side and vice versa, but most of the time they were regular WBs.

Spoiler

In midfield we've played Casemiro and Garner as DMs (RP role) while other were played as CMs (BBM roles). I've already mentioned Bruno's "inflated" assists because of the corners, but he was amazing regardless. Others provided some scoring and assists as well and it's good to see that even the midfielders get involved with this tactic.

Spoiler

On the left wing (IF) we've played these 3, all of them being right footed. Overall, a step down from the last season for Sancho, but still a solid statline for IF.

Spoiler

On the right side we've played these 3 as our IFs. All of them are left footed. Antony also took a step back from the last season, but still finished with some decent numbers. Diallo was pretty bad so we've signed Malcom in january and he's been very efficient so far.

Spoiler

And finally, up front we've had Rashford with a phenomenal season, scoring more than a goal per game. Barbosa was someone that I initially wanted to play on the right wing but decided to keep him s a striker. Kanga is a regen of Ibrahimovic, but he is nowhere near his potential yet. In the 2nd half of the season, I've changed the role of striker from PF to AF. Can't really say it changed much, but it definitely didn't hurt either.

Looking forward to season 3! 

[Black Hawk]

21 hours ago, Schwantz34 said:

They wanted mid table but note it was the 24-25 season when I got the job, so I don't know what they ask on a brand new save. Snelgrove and Lockett were full season loans. The defence got better by adding some better defenders in January and that combined with the tactic really clicking in the final stretch made the difference.

I had left footed B2B on the right and right footer on the left in midfield.

Some solid stats even for a full season tough.

Yeah, I'm more and more convinced that right footed B2B on the left and left footed on the right is the way. I'm using Fred as right B2B and even if he doesn't score and assist a lot (Fred is not a top tier player after all), he really brings the ball inside and forces the team to seek plays through the middle.

9 hours ago, BarnDoor said:

Ok, so... Here's my recap of the 2nd season with Man Utd using this tactic.

After a very successful first season, we have continued the good form, and this year we have absolutely demolished anyone who stood on our path to glory. We've won all 4 trophies (EPL, FA Cup, Carabao and ECL), but unfortunately we didn't achieve the "unbeatable" status. Damn you, Fulham! (And some others I can't remember atm).

Stats:

  Hide contents

Defense was pretty solid, we didn't concede many goals. I know no one cares about GK stats, but I had to include them to show off De Gea's assists 😁 Also, I have tweaked the tactics here - playing SK instead of regular G because I've noticed in the previous season that we conceded quite a few goals from counters and 1 on 1 situations.

  Hide contents

Out CDs were very solid as well, but also managed to score quite a few goals from corners. I used the default corner strategy, and most of these assists go to Bruno (keep that in mind when checking his stats below).

  Hide contents

Our WBs have delivered a decent amount of assists considering that we didn't really have any strikers with good aerial ability. Davies was a january signing, that's why his numbers are a bit low. Before signing him, we've had Malacia playing there as a backup to Shaw. Wan-Bissaka has been a huge surprise, especially since he didn't really improve his abilities from the first season, but in the limited play time he was very efficient. Also, sometimes I've played them as IWBs, switching left footed guys to the right side and vice versa, but most of the time they were regular WBs.

  Hide contents

In midfield we've played Casemiro and Garner as DMs (RP role) while other were played as CMs (BBM roles). I've already mentioned Bruno's "inflated" assists because of the corners, but he was amazing regardless. Others provided some scoring and assists as well and it's good to see that even the midfielders get involved with this tactic.

  Hide contents

On the left wing (IF) we've played these 3, all of them being right footed. Overall, a step down from the last season for Sancho, but still a solid statline for IF.

  Hide contents

On the right side we've played these 3 as our IFs. All of them are left footed. Antony also took a step back from the last season, but still finished with some decent numbers. Diallo was pretty bad so we've signed Malcom in january and he's been very efficient so far.

  Hide contents

And finally, up front we've had Rashford with a phenomenal season, scoring more than a goal per game. Barbosa was someone that I initially wanted to play on the right wing but decided to keep him s a striker. Kanga is a regen of Ibrahimovic, but he is nowhere near his potential yet. In the 2nd half of the season, I've changed the role of striker from PF to AF. Can't really say it changed much, but it definitely didn't hurt either.

Looking forward to season 3! 

Dear God, here I was happy with the stats of my second season test... So many questions...

How the heck did Antony and Sancho scored so many goals? My Antony and Sancho missed so much that I was at times screaming out of rage. And Rashford scoring as a striker, I did test it sometimes on first season and forget it, he was useless.

It's amazing how two players can get things so different with almost the same context

I'll try to post my feedback tonight or tomorrow, but I got good results. Very good results.

Btw, you managed to renew with De Gea? For me it was impossible, the guy never even heard what I had to propose, he simply left. Now is with Brighton in Championship. Go figure...

Edited February 6, 2023 by Black Hawk

[BarnDoor]

Haha, poor De Gea 😂 I didn't do any contracts until very late into the season, probably even after winning some trophies. Maybe that played a part in him changing his mind.

For Sancho and Antony, I guess their previous season played a big role. They scored even more, had great ratings and therefore gained some upgrades. This season both of them had bad stretches of form where I had to adjust tactics against some weak teams - focus passing to one side in order for one of them (whoever was in bad form) to finally do something. As you've said, shooting isnt a strong point for either. I think Sancho is currently at 13 and Antony at 12 for me. But they really improved their movement which helps a lot.

Also, idk if you have seen the post from Marc from SI about IF movements... Apparently they will move to the box more often if they are also natural at playing a striker role. I've trained both Antony and Sancho to be natural strikers and maybe that also adds to their effectivness (haven't tested without the positional training so I can't say for sure).

[Black Hawk]

1 hour ago, BarnDoor said:

Haha, poor De Gea 😂 I didn't do any contracts until very late into the season, probably even after winning some trophies. Maybe that played a part in him changing his mind.

For Sancho and Antony, I guess their previous season played a big role. They scored even more, had great ratings and therefore gained some upgrades. This season both of them had bad stretches of form where I had to adjust tactics against some weak teams - focus passing to one side in order for one of them (whoever was in bad form) to finally do something. As you've said, shooting isnt a strong point for either. I think Sancho is currently at 13 and Antony at 12 for me. But they really improved their movement which helps a lot.

Also, idk if you have seen the post from Marc from SI about IF movements... Apparently they will move to the box more often if they are also natural at playing a striker role. I've trained both Antony and Sancho to be natural strikers and maybe that also adds to their effectivness (haven't tested without the positional training so I can't say for sure).

No, I didn't know that about IFs. But I'll try it. And makes sense, as Pedro Gonçalves and Rashford can play as strikers and they are the two with the best stats from my tests.

Meanwhile, here's my feedback from season two with Man Utd.

Compared to the previous season, I lost two starting eleven players: David De Gea and Cristiano Ronaldo. The former didn't want to renew his contract (and I tried), the latter didn't want to either, but I wasn't interested in renewing either. They were joined by Anthony Martial who has another year on his contract, he didn't want to renew lowering his salary and he also doesn't fit in what I want as a striker, so he wouldn't count for this new season (no one bought him, so he spent a whole season without playing).

I had to attack the market looking for alternatives to all three.

For De Gea, I brought Gavin Bazunu. I don't know if he starts at Southampton, but that's where he was and he was their goalkeeper. My scouts guarantee that he has a lot to evolve and will become a world football star, so I hired him. At the beginning of the season he still didn't have great attributes, but he has grown a little along the season and seems like a solution for the future.

For the attack, I found Victor Oshimen transfer listed in Napoli, with only 14 games played last season and 1 goal scored. I have no idea what happened, but I got him for a very reasonable price for the quality he has. The second choice was Gianluca Scamacca, who seemed like a good all-rounder striker. I was about to bring Ivan Toney, but Scamacca is younger and cheaper.

I brought two more reinforcements whose contracts ended: James Rodriguez (yes, that one) and Dani Ceballos. They were both a mistake. I had hoped they would regain their former glory, but they were a shadow of their heyday. Ceballos ended up leaving in January, James did the whole season but will leave next summer.

The last change before the start of the season came unexpectedly. Bayern wanted Luke Shaw, a player who never convinced me during the first season, and the 50M they offered me was too good to refuse. With just over half of that I went to get Gvardiol. It was an odd choice for Wing Back as he has only 9 for Crossing, but it was purposed to test whether Crossing greatly influences the number of assists in Wing Backs.

In January I picked up a dissatisfied and transfer listed Declan Rice. I didn't really need him, but he's too good to let it go, Man City were interested in him and I had transfer budget available after selling Hannibal and Guarnacho, so I took him. He ended up not playing a lot, first because he wasn't used to tactics, then because he was injured twice. When he returned we were already at the end of the season.

 

 

The season was a tremendous success. We won all competitions. We only lost one game (damn you, City). 65 games played, 59W 5D 1L. We scored 147 goals (2,26 goals per game) and conceded only 25 (0,38 goals per game).

In the Premier League, we scored 87 goals and conceded 12. It's little different from the previous year, when we ended up with 82-15, but it's one of those cases where the numbers don't explain everything. By my count, we reached Half Time leading by two or more goals 18 times. Most of those games stayed like that until the end because in the second half we just managed the pace of the game and the fitness of the team. When we weren't winning or when we conceded a goal, the team reacted immediately and charged in search of goals - we scored six times in the next ten minutes after conceding a goal.

Most of the time it wasn't necessary to score more goals and we let it run until the end. My perception is that we could have scored more goals if we wanted to or if it was necessary. The control mindset makes the team accelerate while the game is not resolved, but also makes the team slow the rhythm when the result was safe enough (with an advantage of two or more goals). I like that. There are many games to play and charging to score more goals just to make better statistics only wears the team unnecessarily.

Overall, the team always felt safe. Most of the wins were easy. We had about 7 or 8 games where we only guaranteed victory in the last 15/20 minutes (two of them with comebacks at that stage). The defeat was in a balanced game in which City shot more but we created more clear cut chances, they settled the game in a set piece. The draw against City was fair, the other two draws we deserved to win, but we missed too many chances.

Comparing with the test I did earlier with City, curiously we had almost the same numbers. Same points, same goals conceded, but 8 less goals scored. The difference seems to me that City had Haaland and United did not. Osimhen and Scamacca scored 9 goals less than Haaland alone, I mean...

 

 

Starting with the Wing Backs, everyone had numbers in line with what is usual with this tactic, except for Gvardiol. Bottom line: Crossing helps. It doesn't take much Crossing (Dalot and Malacia don't have it very high), but it's good to have something. During the season I ended up using Malacia as a starter and Gvardiol is already training as a center back and that will be his position next season.

Midfielders had similar numbers to last year. Tielemans was reborn when I started using it as a Roaming Playmaker. Bruno Fernandes made fewer assists, but scored important goals appearing in the box. Bruno also managed to be sent off twice for violent tackles, the first time in the first leg of the quarter final of UCL against Milan and the second time in the first leg of the semi final of UCL against Atlético. Even so, we won both games (usually when we have ten players on the field I take one of the IFs and play with only one).

Van de Beek suffered a serious injury (five or six months) in his first season and never fully recovered. It's a long way from the level it once had and I'm going to try to sell it. Fred ended up being the one making a partnership with Bruno Fernandes as B2B mainly because is left footed and plays as right B2B. He is good enough, but you guys can see by his stats that he doesn't make the difference. I will test Declan Rice with Bruno Fernandes next season (I've already told what happened with Declan Rice previously).

As for the IFs, Rashford took a while to score the first goal (I think it was only in November), but there was still time to finish with respectable numbers. Antony made many assists but missed so many goals... Sancho also missed many goals and spent two or three months in which he neither scored nor assisted, which limited the numbers that were being impressive in the initial phase of the season.

Together, the IFs scored 31 goals and made 49 assists, which is 54% of direct contributions to all team goals. Pretty solid!

The strikers were good and consistent. They scored 55 goals and made 16 assists in 65 games, which makes a direct contribution to goals above 1 per game. This shows how important is a Pressing Forward that plays with the team and helps to create opportunities. The team had an easy time creating chances because Osimhen and Scamacca gave dynamics to the attack, unlike Ronaldo and Martial in the previous season who only got in the way (these two together made only 3 assists in the first season, Osimhen and Scamacca made 16, the difference is clear).

I remember that I change the team a lot. Sancho, Antony and Rashford made practically the same number of games as starters and often came off the bench in the last 15/20 minutes of the game. Same thing with the two strikers, they never played simultaneously and their number of goals can be added up to realize that the Man Utd striker (sometimes Osimhen, sometimes Scamacca) scored 55 times.

The team was unstoppable and easily won most games. I only had to change something twice and that was just ticking on Time Wasting (both in 1-0 wins against Liverpool) because I saw in the match engine that we were losing the ball too easily trying to swiftly reach their box.

Now I want to see if in the third season the team maintains this pace or if the tactic starts to suffer from the AI getting used to the tactic. For now, in two seasons the AI still hasn't managed to find a way to stop it. Sometimes they put a lot of players in the middle to close spaces, and at those times we explore the wings with our Wing Backs (that have open spaces to cross). When the AI tries to close the wings, we cut through the middle. It's actually funny to see how the team reacts to the AI strategy, it seems like they are conscious of what is happening and actively try to elude it.

I have to say that I am very satisfied with the results. The games are fun to watch, almost every game I see my team trying different ways to create a goal. I'm having fun!

[BarnDoor]

Yooo, that was a great season! It's weird how many similar choices we've made - Bazunu is my backup GK but he hasnt played yet for me cause I've let him stay on loan at Southampton.

Idk if Declan Rice has some hidden attribute related to injuries, but I'm also managing England on that same save and he's almost never available cause of the injuries 😕

And I love how you do the math 😁 54% goal involvement is really good. I wish we were able to see minutes played instead of appearances. As you've said it, many times we bring on someone in the last 15mins, limiting his chances to score/assist, but it still counts as an appearance so it may look like he played a whole game. Numbers can be decieving sometimes.

Btw, here's a link to that comment from Marc abt IFs. He talked about some other things too in that thread.

https://fmmvibe.com/forums/topic/47904-are-you-happy-to-see-the-tweak-of-if/?do=findComment&comment=474425

[Disque]

Your tactic works really well. Like guys above said it's plug and play. I just did the changes during matches, nothing changed in tactics or mentality. Lost only once to ManU in Cup, in League unbeaten. Won the 5 trophies in first season.

 

The team was almost without transfers. I only brought Rice for first team and some wonderkids for second team for weaker PL matches. 

 

Corners set like in screenshot below, had some goals, most of my stoppers goals. 

[TehSpaceGiraffe]

Fuming. They scored in 90+5 mins......there was only 4 mins of added time. Big team bias is real

[Black Hawk]

On 07/02/2023 at 07:45, BarnDoor said:

Yooo, that was a great season! It's weird how many similar choices we've made - Bazunu is my backup GK but he hasnt played yet for me cause I've let him stay on loan at Southampton.

Idk if Declan Rice has some hidden attribute related to injuries, but I'm also managing England on that same save and he's almost never available cause of the injuries 😕

And I love how you do the math 😁 54% goal involvement is really good. I wish we were able to see minutes played instead of appearances. As you've said it, many times we bring on someone in the last 15mins, limiting his chances to score/assist, but it still counts as an appearance so it may look like he played a whole game. Numbers can be decieving sometimes.

Btw, here's a link to that comment from Marc abt IFs. He talked about some other things too in that thread.

https://fmmvibe.com/forums/topic/47904-are-you-happy-to-see-the-tweak-of-if/?do=findComment&comment=474425

Yeah, I do math all the time playing this. For example, at rhe beggining of every season I make some objectives to how much goals we should score and the maximum goals conceded we should have. During the season I'm constantly doing the math to see if we are withing expectations.

I said on first post that I'm a control freak. I was not kidding

Thanks for the link. I really didn't knew that. Funnily enough, I thought of something similar starting this test with Man Utd. By the end of first season I bought Endrick and Vítor Roque, who are strikers but with low Aerial, and trained them to right Inside Forward and left Inside Forward, respectively. Right now they are both on loans in my third season, I want to see how they do when I promote them.

On 07/02/2023 at 14:23, Disque said:

Your tactic works really well. Like guys above said it's plug and play. I just did the changes during matches, nothing changed in tactics or mentality. Lost only once to ManU in Cup, in League unbeaten. Won the 5 trophies in first season.

 

The team was almost without transfers. I only brought Rice for first team and some wonderkids for second team for weaker PL matches. 

 

Corners set like in screenshot below, had some goals, most of my stoppers goals. 

Very good

With teams like City and United I too didn't change anything and things work pretty well. With Wolves and other tests with smaller portuguese teams I had to at times because they lack in individual quality, but I find the tactic was solid even without any changes in those teams.

On 07/02/2023 at 20:48, TehSpaceGiraffe said:

Fuming. They scored in 90+5 mins......there was only 4 mins of added time. Big team bias is real

Oh my...

I kid you not, had my first defeat on third season with Man Utd against Liverpool, 3-2 at Old Trafford, they did 3 shots on goal. One was a header on a corner, the second a long range shot and the third my keeper Bazunu lost the ball to Darwin Nunez.

I was fuming ahah

[zaangie]

The tactic is great but what do you when you face defensive formations like this one? I barely score against it.

[Black Hawk]

8 hours ago, zaangie said:

The tactic is great but what do you when you face defensive formations like this one? I barely score against it.

I'm playing in Premier League and I can't remember someone using that formation. In third season I've been mostly against formations with 4 at the back and 2 defensive midfielders (4231), which I think is the way the AI is trying to counter the tactic to prevent my midfielders to break down the middle.

But I saw your post minutes before playing against something close to it when I faced Chelsea. Which was kind of a surprise, they always played against me with a 4312 formation.

It was the perfect chance to test something following your question. I changed the passing to both flanks to test it. My goal was to flank their formation, going around from both sides and enter the box from there or to cross for Scamacca (who scores some goals from headers after crosses from my Wing Backs).

Now, I forgot to save the damn game and cannot see the match engine to show how we scored, but during the game I took three prints of two plays we did to show what the players were trying to do.

Here, Dalot (#2) run down the right and gave the ball to Rashford (#10). I usually don't use Rashford as right IF, but this was some 15 minutes to the end, my right IF was not performing and I subbed him for Rashford. Sancho as left IF, Rashford as right IF.

So, as usual my team atracts almost everyone to the inside (blue circle) and that left us in superiority on the right flank. Both Dalot and Rice (#26) are able to go alone to their box. Rashford gave the ball to Rice, he passed to outside the box to Bruno Fernandes (#8, obviously) who was alone where the arrow is. Unfortunately, he shot wide.

Some minutes later, we were already with only ten players (Scamacca was sent off, I believe he elbowed someone or something like that). When that happens, i take one of my IFs and play one only one of them. This time, I subbed Sancho (he was tired) for Anthony (#21), Rashford was now my striker. The #15 is a youngster called Ouédraogo, he subbed Casemiro and was playing as right B2B (Rice was now the Roaming Playmaker).

This was very similar to the previous one. A lot of Chelsea players in the middle, superiority by the right (3x2).

Dalot gave the ball to Anthony. There were again the two spaces for my Wing Back and my right B2B. Anthony passed it to Ouédraogo and the kid shot to a great save from their keeper. He could've pass for Declan Rice just outside the box, he was alone. Also, if there was an left IF on the field he should have been alone at the left where I did a sorry cross

As for the game, we won comfortably. It's not a match to remember, but we did score early. It was pretty similar to the prints I made, Malacia run down the left, passed the ball to Gvardiol inside (yeah, my left centre back) and he put it through to Sancho that run inside the box from the line and scored.

We were winning since the 7th minute, had 59% of ball possession, Chelsea only shot 3 times (2 of them long shots), I would have preferred the team to have scored another, but it was such a quiet game that they didn't even have to push for another goal.

This was only one test, I can't say if this is something that could work regularly, but just my two cents. Should another team play against me with a formation like this and I'll test it again.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Black Hawk

[Black Hawk]

I completed season 3 with Man Utd.

In the first two seasons, we won all the competitions we participated in except the FA Cup in the first season (we lost to Liverpool). For this season, the objectives were to win everything again and, at the same time, start to rejuvenate the squad.

I won't say anything that you guys don't know already, but Man Utd starts with a squad where the key players are a little aged. De Gea, Varane, Casemiro, Erikson and Ronaldo are already in their thirties (Ronaldo is even closer to his forties than his thirties); Lindelof, Maguire, Luke Shaw, Fred, Bruno Fernandes and Martial are not yet in their thirties, but they are heading there.

Among these names are also some of the best paid in the squad, some of them with outrageous wages that weigh heavily on the budget and prevent the renewal of players who would really be part of the future. For example, it was immensely difficult for me to renew with Rashford in the first season because the payroll was so high that I didn't had the budget to offer what he asked for. De Gea was no longer possible for me to hold back and left after the first season.

Therefore, anyone who has coached Man Utd knows that the first challenge is to assemble a competitive team with the immensely unbalanced squad they have, the second is to reduce the wage bill and the third, somewhere in the third or fourth season, is to renew the squad that starts to be very old. I speak of this only to contextualize the results we obtained in this third season.

Another thing I hadn't mentioned yet (because it wasn't relevant to the results of the two previous seasons) is that I've been working on rejuvenating the squad since the first season. I've been hiring some promising youngsters who are being recommended to me by scouts with at least 4.5 star recommendation potential (and usually the cheapest among them). Two of them I already knew from hearing that they were good, the others I had no idea who they were.

So, during the first season I hired Endrick and Vítor Roque (both Strikers, but as they have low Aerial I trained them to be IFs) and also a young German centre back called Leandro Morgalla. Both were loaned in the second season. Of this three guys, I only knew who Endrick was (some days ago I heard the first time the name of Vítor Roque because apparently Barcelona are after him in real life).

At the beginning of the second season, I brought three more promising youngsters recommended by my scouts, all midfielders: Assan Ouédraogo and two youngsters from Real Madrid who had a low minimum fee release clause (below 10M) and therefore it was worth taking a risk, Marc Cucalón and Julen Jon Guerrero. All of them were loaned in the second season. I didn't knew any of them.

At the beginning of this third season, I brought two more midfielders that my scouts swear would be stars in the future: Tom Bischof and an something Doué. Tom Bischof I've heard his name before, Doué honestly doesn't ring any bell. Both of them were sent on loans.

Well, for the third season I decided it was time to start renewing the squad. I had already gotten rid of De Gea (I didn't want to lose him, but that's how it had to be), Maguire and Lindelof (they finally left!), Luke Shaw, Martial and Ronaldo. Of those who remain, Varane, Casemiro and Bruno Fernandes are too important and for me they will stay as long as they want to be here.

That left Fred and Erikson. Fred isn't bad, but he's nothing special. Erikson is very good, but he is in the shadow of Bruno Fernandes, his wages are too high for a benched player and he is already 32 or 33 and with only one year left on his contract. They were both sold (Fred to Liverpool and Erikson to Chelsea). Additionally, I also got rid of Mengi, Tuanzebe and Elanga, who are talented youngsters but haven't developed as I had hoped.

Let me just say that Erikson's departure caused a wave of revolt among the fans and even in the locker room

For their places, I bet on three young guys who were already part of the club youth system at the beginning of this save and on two others of those I brought and seemed ready to take the place of those who left. Maybe they're still not as good as the ones who left (especially Erikson and Fred), but it seemed to me that they were already close and would grow throughout the season.

So, for center back I already had Varane, Todibo and Gvardiol, I added Morgalla to them. As i usually have two sets of centre backs, they are used in a rotation system and all of them play a lot (at the start of the season, Varane/Todibo were the main starters and Gvardiol/Morgalla the ones who played in easiest games, but by the end Gvardiol already took the place of Todibo).

For left Wing Back (I remind that Gvardiol started to count as center back this season, that opened a space for left back), instead of hiring someone I decided to promote Álvaro Fernández (who was already part of Man Utd and has been on loan until now). Malacia did really well last season so I trust in him.

For the midfield, as Fred and Erikson left I promoted Ouédraogo and a norwegian called Hansen-Aarøen (who was already a Man Utd player).

Ahead of the field, the departure of Elanga opened a space and I choose a young englishman whose name I had never heard before (and who makes me want to laugh with all the puns that can be made with him) and who is also part of Man Utd when we started the game. Shola Shoretire.

I imagine you guys "shore" are "tired" of all this writing already! But I can't stop, writing doesn't "tire" me.

Okay, I stop with the (bad) puns. For now. I can't promise anything about the future.

This was my initial plan, but there were two last-minute surprises.

The first is that of all the young talents I brought in, they were all loaned to good clubs to evolve. All but one. Marc Cucalón did not accept to be loaned. He rejected all the clubs, even Eintracht Frankfurt which would be a great option for him to develop another year.

To be honest, he was on loan at Fulham in the Premier League in second season and played a lot, so it makes sense that he feels he doesn't need to be loaned out for another year. He ended up staying against my will, as he would only be the seventh option for the three midfield positions (and with that he covered van de Beek, who is in the last year of his contract, nobody wanted him and he was going to be the seventh option, poor guy only played one game all year).

Cucalón really proved me wrong, he had a great season and late in the season was already the fourth option, just behind my preferred starting trio (Casemiro, Rice and Bruno Fernandes).

The second surprise came following the conversation a few posts earlier in this thread with @BarnDoor. If the IFs are more effective if they are Natural as Strikers, I trained all my IFs to be Natural as Strikers and, moreover, I remembered a certain star who is a Striker, but since he has low Aerial (and in this tactic having Aerial as a Striker helps a lot) I never tried to hire him. But all his remaining attributes match those of an IF...

That's how the season's only signing for the main team became Youssoufa Moukoko. Not for Striker, but to retrain him as a right IF. My plan was to use little by little at the start until he becomes a Natural in the position, in a rotation system with Anthony.

Okay, let's move on to the results. I was expecting the team to suffer a little with the fact that some of the second lines were youngsters who were not at the level of the starters. I imagined that the team would be inconsistent whenever I rotated the starting eleven (which, as I said, I always rotate my players a lot, everyone plays a lot and I rarely repeat the starting eleven twice).

To my surprise, the team has evolved even more compared to last year!

(Note: the season is not finished yet, I still have to play the Club World Championship or whatever that thing is called, I just wanted to post the stats without it to keep the same context of previous posts)

We won the Premier League for the third consecutive year, this time only conceding two draws and without any defeat (21 years after Arsenal did it, we have another team to join the restricted group of Invincibles). We were 1 goal shy of averaging 2.5 goals per game (94 goals scored) and with only 8 goals conceded we have an approximate average of only 1 goal conceded in every 5 games.

We won the UEFA Champions League again, winning all 8 group games (with 31 goals scored, almost 4 goals per game average). We easily dispatched Bayern in the Round of 16 and trashed Atlético in the Quarter-Finals. It's true that we struggled to knock out Real Madrid in the Semi-Finals, but then we thrashed Barcelona in the final in Munich.

We won the Carabao Cup for the third consecutive year. The semi-final against Liverpool was difficult, in fact the first leg was our first defeat of the season in 90 minutes of playing time (in a game where they had four shots, three of them on goal and all went in, I was furious!), but then we went to Anfield Road return the favour.

We lost both the Community Shield and the FA Cup in penalty shootouts after 0-0 draws. Not to serve as an excuse, but the elimination against Arsenal for the FA Cup was three days before the first leg of UEFA Champions League Round of 16 against Bayern, I exchanged the whole team for that game and even then we only lost in the penalty shootout.

Overall, we played 64 games with the final result being 58W 2D 4L. Among the 4 defeats is one that appears in the images as a victory (2-2 in the second leg of the UEFA Champions League Semi-Finals against Real Madrid, we lost 1-2 in 90 minutes and reached a 2-2 draw in extra-time, but as it resulted in us to be qualified it appears as a victory) and two 0-0 draws against Man City and Arsenal that we later lost in the penalty shootout. In 90 minutes we only lost two games (Liverpool for the Carabao Cup and Real Madrid for the UEFA Champions League and in both cases we were qualified).

In those 64 games we scored 166 goals (2,59 goals per game) and conceded only 27 times (0,42 per game). I have to say that I expected less goals conceded, but we conceded a lot on Champions League (almost half of all goals conceded where there, most in games we won nevertheless). As for goalscoring, 2,59 goals per game is great when we are reminded that this is a Control Tactic, so we were scoring a lot despite the fact that we don't charge a lot after we are winning - specially when we have already two or more goals in advantage.

To explain this last bit, I did the math again (ahah) and we reached Half Time already winning on Premier League games 28 times (!!!) and 17 of those already leading by 2 or more goals. We scored 57 of our 94 Premier League goals in first half, which is a percentage of 60% of goals scored in first half. Our second halfs were often played in a really slow rhythm, controlling our opponents and managing the fitness of our guys.

Of the 10 times we weren't winning by Half Time, in 8 we were tied and in 2 we were losing. Of the 2 times we were losing, one of these we ended up 1-1 (Leeds), the other one we won in second half (2-1 against Aston Villa). Of the 8 times we were tied by Half Time, we won 7 and draw 1 (Chelsea) by the end of the game.

Only 6 of our wins were achieved in the last half hour of the game. The most critical cases were in away games against Newcastle (1-0 at 90+1), Arsenal (2-0 at 89 and 90+2) and Brentford (1-0 at 81), the other 3 we scored our first goal somewhere between the 60th and 75th minute.

All this to say that we won most games easily, achieving an advantage early in the game and just managing afterwards. I didn't feel any difficulty to score and the AI still hasn't found a way to stop us. I'm still playing plug and play with exactly the same instructions since the first day.

By this time, three years into the game, the team is flying. Having strikers with good Aerial helps a lot in some games when our opponents sit back and try to stop our plays down the middle putting a lot of people in there. In those times, our Wing Backs find themselves alone in both flanks and have all the time in the world to cross as they want.

Nevertheless, that's just a way we find in some games, not the main play I see on match engine. As can be seen below, my Strikers are scoring less than last season and finally (FINALLY!) my IFs are starting to score more.

For the first time in FM 23 Mobile, an IF of mine broke into the 20 goals (Rashford, mainly as left IF). Sancho, also as an left IF, scored 15 times and Shoretire other 3 times. Shoretire played a lot less than the others because I didn't like to see him playing on match engine. This is not easy to explain but is movements aren't what I expect of an IF and I "shore" became "tired" of him.

Ok, ok, I swear I will stop now with this.

On the right, Moukoko scored 16 times despite the fact he spent most of the season training to be a Natural as right IF. Anthony... I can't take the best out of him, don't know what to do anymore. Probably will try to sell him and promote one of my youngsters, probably Vítor Roque (he was on loan to Southampton and scored 20 and someting goals, was even the best Young Player of the Season).

So, as I've explained previously, Rashford, Sancho and Shoretire rarely played together as most times they are used one at a time, so adding their stats I find that my left IF scored 38 goals and assisted to 26 goals. My right IF, Moukoko and Anthony, scored 23 times and assisted to other 23 goals.

This is a whopping 61 goals and 49 assists from my IFs. They scored 36% of our team goals or assisted to 29% of them. This is a total of 66% of direct contributions to all our goals. Glorious!

(Here keep in mind that Moukoko, Anthony and Rashford were taking corners when Bruno Fernandes weren't on the field, I changed the takers along the season to distribute potential assists between several players, so some of those assists are from there too)

Bruno Fernandes had good stats as per usual, a bit less goals but he also played less than in previous years (he was injured for some 5 weeks or so at some time). Marc Cucalón has pretty good stats for someone who did is first season on the team (he started the season with 19 years old) and keep in mind that most times he was on the bench at the start.

Osimhen scored less than expected, but that is easily explained. He spent most of January and a bit of February in the African Nations Cup, leading Nigeria to a third place and was the best player of the tournament. Also, he and Scamacca are used in a rotation system (just like my IFs and everyone on my teams, you guys can tell by how many games everyone has), they never played at the same time. Together they have 51 goals scored (and 15 assists). Less than my IFs, which means we are no longer dependents of my Strikers to score goals. We scored a lot more than previous seasons despite the fact that my Strikers scored less!

The other players have stats close to last seasons or even other tests I posted in this thread. I still can't take the best out of my right B2B, Declan Rice and Ouédraogo were the most used there and their numbers are not that great. They are both right footed and by now I'm pretty sure that's why. I see them performing really well on match engine, passing the ball around and all, they just don't score or assist a lot, which cost them on their average rating.

For next season, I will promote two youngsters who are left footed (I'm thinking of Julen Jon Guerrero and Tom Bischof) and they will play as right B2B. Bruno and Cucalón will be my left B2B. Casemiro and Declan Rice will be my Roaming Playmakers, which means I will try to sell Tielemans. Ouédraogo will be the 7th player as he can play both Roaming Playmaker and B2B.

And that was it, sorry for another wall of text and my sincere congrats if you read all this LOL

Honestly, I think there's no need to post more feedback of this test. I had three very successful seasons with Man Utd in this tactic already and this last one was incredible. I mean, I would do it if anyone is interested in it, but by now I think I'm not adding anything new to what was previously stated.

I will just say I'm having fun playing and hope everyone using this tactic is having fun too.

I'll try to edit the first post of this thread with the things we've been discovering along the various tests that I and other users have done in the last few weeks.

Also, everyone feel free to try and tweak it specially for those special moments of some games (when we need to score late in the game or to secure an advantage, or to face stronger opponents when we are underdogs), if anyone find anything that helps can share here. There's a lot of people on this forum that knows a lot more than me, I've been playing Mobile for just a year now, only started in January 2022. There's still a lot to learn and improve.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Black Hawk

[DanEnglish]

HUGE write up - I really enjoyed reading it 👍 

2 hours ago, Black Hawk said:

Therefore, anyone who has coached Man Utd knows that the first challenge is to assemble a competitive team with the immensely unbalanced squad they have, the second is to reduce the wage bill and the third, somewhere in the third or fourth season, is to renew the squad that starts to be very old. I speak of this only to contextualize the results we obtained in this third season.

Completely agree with this 👍 it’s a very unbalanced squad in massive wages.

You chose to renew the squad with transfers in (like most people) - I try to do it with NO transfers in 🤪 it’s pretty hard + I’m never going to achieve the incredible success you have (and you achieved it so early on as well - impressive!)

However I can confirm Fernandes does turn into an ‘ok’ WB - perhaps a 2nd choice squad player - but initially is ‘unpopular’ with his teammates + seems to be a downgrade vs FMM22 where he could (just) break into my 1st team.

I always found Shoretire better as an AP in the center (not an IF on the flanks!) - I had him either in the MC or AMC position depending on my formation. Slightly younger than Hannibal with slightly better passing, shooting + movement … but Shoretire doesn’t have the stamina (insert pun here!) nor teamwork to be a B2B.

Great career + great squad you’ve built up! 🙂 I’m looking forward to testing this tactic with Man United’s initial squad for a half-season  🔥 🔥 🔥 

Edited February 12, 2023 by DanEnglish

[Black Hawk]

On 12/02/2023 at 05:45, DanEnglish said:

HUGE write up - I really enjoyed reading it 👍 

Completely agree with this 👍 it’s a very unbalanced squad in massive wages.

You chose to renew the squad with transfers in (like most people) - I try to do it with NO transfers in 🤪 it’s pretty hard + I’m never going to achieve the incredible success you have (and you achieved it so early on as well - impressive!)

However I can confirm Fernandes does turn into an ‘ok’ WB - perhaps a 2nd choice squad player - but initially is ‘unpopular’ with his teammates + seems to be a downgrade vs FMM22 where he could (just) break into my 1st team.

I always found Shoretire better as an AP in the center (not an IF on the flanks!) - I had him either in the MC or AMC position depending on my formation. Slightly younger than Hannibal with slightly better passing, shooting + movement … but Shoretire doesn’t have the stamina (insert pun here!) nor teamwork to be a B2B.

Great career + great squad you’ve built up! 🙂 I’m looking forward to testing this tactic with Man United’s initial squad for a half-season  🔥 🔥 🔥 

I had to renew it with transfers in because there's a lack of quality players for what I want with this tactic.

For example, Harry Maguire and Phil Jones are terrible centre backs, they lack the Pace to work in this. Only Varane is able to thrive in this tactic as he is fast and has good technique (and strong in Aerial which is a bonus).

Shaw and Malacia work well despite not being that great, but Dalot and Bissaka are weakly right backs. Dalot still develop a bit, but Man Utd really needs a new right Wing Back right away.

And then there's the two strikers. Ronaldo is dredful and Martial is a bit difficult to work with, he is always dissatisfied. Jadon Sancho only works as left IF (he did six months as right IF with me and didn't score or assist once) and Anthony as right IF (I don't know, seems to me there's saves where he is good and others where he isn't). United really needs two strikers as soon as possible.

All this to say that I had to buy some players early to have a somewhat balanced squad and that means I had to sell some players to finance that. Guys like Garnacho, Diallo or Hannibal that would otherwise be my choices for second or third season, had to go because of that. Which means I tried to compensate bringing young players that would help to rejuvenate the squad later (third and fourth season).

It was a choice, as you said is really hard to try success with United whitout signings. When I became tired of this save I'm doing I'll try to do the same with your approach - that's a proper challenge!

Oh, about Shoretire, I have to use him as IF. Using two B2B means they have to be somewhat balanced in their attributes (both defensive and offensive), I can't have a B2B with 7 Positioning and 7 Tackling. Bruno Fernandes has 11 in both and I can live with that (as he gives a lot offensively), but 7 is terrible.

I'm also curious to see your feedback. Bring it

[DanEnglish]

@Black Hawk, @BarnDoor, @Legend288 - you’ve all used Man. United with this tactic + I’d love to get your advice …

Situation - This ‘Black Hawk’ tactic is currently next in line to be tested in my ‘testing tactics’ thread - where I see what tactic is most suitable for Man. United’s current squad (no transfers, no using Ronaldo/Weghorst). It’s only a half-season test, but for all tactics.

Questions - as we have poor aerial upfront (Rashford in the middle) and our WBs have rather poor crossing …

1. do you think it’s better to have WBs or IWBs on both flanks?
2. Also am thinking of using a midfield three of Bruno (B2B left), Eriksen (B2B right) and Casemiro (DMC) - any suggestions?

Would appreciate your advice! 🙂 

[DanEnglish]

@StuartM - you posted this tactic earlier on this thread + I wondered if you’d kindly share your advice also … 

For a Man. United team with no transfers - they have poor crossing WBs + poor aerial attackers (if you don’t use Ronaldo / Weghorst) … so I’m wondering:

1. why did you pick IWBs + how do they work for you compared with using WBs?
2. what your thoughts were on using IWBs in the DMR/L positions (instead of DR/L) for your tactic?
3. why did you use a DLF + how did it work out for you offensively?
4. as you used a DLF (not a PF), did you use a high line + high press, or something different (and what are your thoughts on it)?

Any advice you can give would be appreciated 🙂 

[StuartM]

2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

@StuartM - you posted this tactic earlier on this thread + I wondered if you’d kindly share your advice also … 

For a Man. United team with no transfers - they have poor crossing WBs + poor aerial attackers (if you don’t use Ronaldo / Weghorst) … so I’m wondering:

1. why did you pick IWBs + how do 🙂they work for you compared with using WBs?
2. what your thoughts were on using IWBs in the DMR/L positions (instead of DR/L) for your tactic?
3. why did you use a DLF + how did it work out for you offensively?
4. as you used a DLF (not a PF), did you use a high line + high press, or something different (and what are your thoughts on it)?

Any advice you can give would be appreciated 🙂 

Happy to, though my analysis is less thorough 🙂 and with less gaffer dazzle.

The intent of using IWBs is for them to come in field more than overlap to encourage the BBMs to go into the AM space. That kind of works but from memory they did occasionally stay wide and cross from deep.

When I've tried IWBs further back, I've found that they don't influence the game as much as I'd like. I think they have more passing options upfield and I try to play a 'progressive' style.

The DLF seemed to score plenty of target man type goals (the guy I used had attributes for TF and DLF) but I picked the role for the ability to link play with the BBMs and make space for the IFs.

I do use a high line and high press with this one but I evolved this and dropped the mentality to try and stop getting caught on the break and this kind of worked too.

It isn't a super high possession tactic at 56% for the whole season. We averaged 12 shots on goal, 6 on target giving us 2 goals per game so not super high scoring either. It was consistent though and we only conceded 5 shots on goal, 2 of which on target giving 0.5 goals against on average.

I think I still have the save file in the current season for this one so if you do want more detail, give me a shout.

Edited February 15, 2023 by StuartM