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Career Les Bleus Chotel [Season 5]


Scratch
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5 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

Speaking of wingers, what stats do you look out for when you're hunting one? I'm looking mostly at Crossing, Decisions, Movement & Pace, though Dribbling & Passing is nice to have as well. 

I don't think about it too much to be honest.

I want them to have Crossing first, then Pace and Movement. Of course Dribbling and Decisions is nice too. But... I generally buy them as wonderkids, so they don't have high values for those things yet anyway. And then I find that out of all those, Crossing is the one that's hardest to grow, so I look for players with a decent base for that.

Then I focus training on Crossing (and occasionally Pace) and I find things like Dribbling and Movement just level up without any particular focus. 

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47 minutes ago, DutchTony said:

Are you still using light training? If so, how much less improvement do you see compared to 'normal' or 'intensive'?

Not sure about Scratch, but for me the lack of improvement that you would typically expect from running "light" training is made up from the constant game-time they're getting, which is ideally every game. If anything, I'd wager that they grow more than if they were put on "normal" or "intensive", and then made to rest every other game or something along those lines. Haven't done any testing, nor do I know how I'd go about proving that though, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

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Sorry Scratch i have been a lazy reader.

But....i've caught up and this is goig ridiculously well. I know you have said you were hoping for larger numbers but this has been fantastic.

Love it mate 👍

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6 hours ago, Scratch said:

I don't think about it too much to be honest.

I want them to have Crossing first, then Pace and Movement. Of course Dribbling and Decisions is nice too. But... I generally buy them as wonderkids, so they don't have high values for those things yet anyway. And then I find that out of all those, Crossing is the one that's hardest to grow, so I look for players with a decent base for that.

Then I focus training on Crossing (and occasionally Pace) and I find things like Dribbling and Movement just level up without any particular focus. 

Do you look for Teamwork?

I thought that with a high teamwork value a player would be more eager to pass/cross. But does not look like it in the end...

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6 hours ago, BakaSotong said:

Not sure about Scratch, but for me the lack of improvement that you would typically expect from running "light" training is made up from the constant game-time they're getting, which is ideally every game. If anything, I'd wager that they grow more than if they were put on "normal" or "intensive", and then made to rest every other game or something along those lines. Haven't done any testing, nor do I know how I'd go about proving that though, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

I just tested changing the training for a few games. For me training made no difference in game recovery time. Both on light and intensive training there was no difference in how quickly they deteriorated during the game. Also the players condition went up 5% every day between games on both training methods. When you're in Europe and domestic cup competitions you would still need an A and B team regardless of the training. The only benefit to light training I can see is possibly less injuries - unless of course I'm missing something.

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8 hours ago, BakaSotong said:

Not sure about Scratch, but for me the lack of improvement that you would typically expect from running "light" training is made up from the constant game-time they're getting, which is ideally every game. If anything, I'd wager that they grow more than if they were put on "normal" or "intensive", and then made to rest every other game or something along those lines. Haven't done any testing, nor do I know how I'd go about proving that though, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

2 hours ago, DutchTony said:

I just tested changing the training for a few games. For me training made no difference in game recovery time. Both on light and intensive training there was no difference in how quickly they deteriorated during the game. Also the players condition went up 5% every day between games on both training methods. When you're in Europe and domestic cup competitions you would still need an A and B team regardless of the training. The only benefit to light training I can see is possibly less injuries - unless of course I'm missing something.

Yeah, I always use low intensity training.

From what I can tell (but who knows if that's right), having it on high will get you more 'points' towards levelling up from training - but the amount of points you get from training is relatively low compared to the points from games. And I mainly just do this for my strikers and as long as they score, they get a good rating and level up quickly anyway. So I'd rather keep them fit and on the field. 

I would have thought they get less tired by being on low intensity, but have never tested it. I guess maybe not from Tony's test? Although I once had a player who could never get back to 100%, would get stuck on 99% and low intensity seemed to help that (but that was long ago now and I might be misremembering it). I can say that Tel in particular gets jaded really quickly, despite being on low intensity, which supports it not help that much (or not at all). 

But... main upside: my strikers almost never get injured during training. In this save, 18 months in, they only have 1 injury between them - Tel, sprained ankle during a match. So no training injuries at all. Of course both Cho and Tel are very rarely injured which helps a lot, but it does seem to reduce (not completely remove) training injuries. 

In the end though, we can't tell what the effect is for sure. But I'll keep using it.

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4 hours ago, Gonzolito said:

Do you look for Teamwork?

I thought that with a high teamwork value a player would be more eager to pass/cross. But does not look like it in the end...

Oh yeah, I do that for all the players, that's like a pre-requisite before I start looking at them more closely. If their teamwork is too low I don't even consider them.

Team work is made up of:

  • 50% Work Rate - which is something I want the whole squad to have, so I don't want the new lad bringing us down (or moaning about how he hates the work rate of the squad)
  • 50% Unselfishness - which is yeah, higher the better, please be unselfish and cross instead of trying to score yourself.

So it's very rare I'll sign someone with lower than 11 or 12 and if I can get some one with 18 or so, I'll go for that! I do that for all positions, except striker.

Although there are always exceptions because you can't have everything.

With a bit of luck you can improve the Work Rare part through mentoring and the Unselfishness can be leveled up a little to by training teamwork - so sometimes, for the right player, I'll sign them and see if I can improve that. 

Maswanhise had a low score (8) because he was in my first round of signings, and I don't have much choice/spending power/attraction for getting the best signings. The next round of signings (happening now) will be a little better - the two wonderkids I signed have 14 and 10, but come back in a few years and the majority of the squad will be 15+. 

 

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7 hours ago, Woody said:

Sorry Scratch i have been a lazy reader.

But....i've caught up and this is goig ridiculously well. I know you have said you were hoping for larger numbers but this has been fantastic.

Love it mate 👍

Thanks mate, yeah, I'm happy with it in general. I'm basically doing the same thing I've done with the TT Blaster and my 1KC variation of that and it's mostly working... But I knew that Cho and Tel would be great - not sure what PA they have in this save, but they both have really high defaults. Can't go wrong really.  

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I have been following but due to issues with my phone I can't post from there. I have to use the laptop when I can get it away from the kids or missus. 

I'm excited to see where this goes. 

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10 hours ago, Scratch said:

Oh yeah, I do that for all the players, that's like a pre-requisite before I start looking at them more closely. If their teamwork is too low I don't even consider them.

Team work is made up of:

  • 50% Work Rate - which is something I want the whole squad to have, so I don't want the new lad bringing us down (or moaning about how he hates the work rate of the squad)
  • 50% Unselfishness - which is yeah, higher the better, please be unselfish and cross instead of trying to score yourself.

So it's very rare I'll sign someone with lower than 11 or 12 and if I can get some one with 18 or so, I'll go for that! I do that for all positions, except striker.

Although there are always exceptions because you can't have everything.

With a bit of luck you can improve the Work Rare part through mentoring and the Unselfishness can be leveled up a little to by training teamwork - so sometimes, for the right player, I'll sign them and see if I can improve that. 

Maswanhise had a low score (8) because he was in my first round of signings, and I don't have much choice/spending power/attraction for getting the best signings. The next round of signings (happening now) will be a little better - the two wonderkids I signed have 14 and 10, but come back in a few years and the majority of the squad will be 15+. 

 

Thx a lot for the detailed answer! 

KIU with show and tell ! 💪🏻

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10 hours ago, Scratch said:

Oh yeah, I do that for all the players, that's like a pre-requisite before I start looking at them more closely. If their teamwork is too low I don't even consider them.

Team work is made up of:

  • 50% Work Rate - which is something I want the whole squad to have, so I don't want the new lad bringing us down (or moaning about how he hates the work rate of the squad)
  • 50% Unselfishness - which is yeah, higher the better, please be unselfish and cross instead of trying to score yourself.

So it's very rare I'll sign someone with lower than 11 or 12 and if I can get some one with 18 or so, I'll go for that! I do that for all positions, except striker.

Although there are always exceptions because you can't have everything.

With a bit of luck you can improve the Work Rare part through mentoring and the Unselfishness can be leveled up a little to by training teamwork - so sometimes, for the right player, I'll sign them and see if I can improve that. 

Maswanhise had a low score (8) because he was in my first round of signings, and I don't have much choice/spending power/attraction for getting the best signings. The next round of signings (happening now) will be a little better - the two wonderkids I signed have 14 and 10, but come back in a few years and the majority of the squad will be 15+. 

 

Genuine question, but do you think teamwork actually does do those things in the game? I only ask cos you’re Scratch and you know everything ❤️, but I often wonder if a lot of the stuff we assume happens - teamwork meaning more crosses as an example - actually does happen in the game.

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2 hours ago, Rob said:

Genuine question, but do you think teamwork actually does do those things in the game? I only ask cos you’re Scratch and you know everything ❤️, but I often wonder if a lot of the stuff we assume happens - teamwork meaning more crosses as an example - actually does happen in the game.

2 hours ago, Gonzolito said:

Thx a lot for the detailed answer! 

KIU with show and tell ! 💪🏻

So I've been thinking some more about this. I do prioritise Teamwork a lot, especially as I go deeper in the save (don't have the luxury at first) BUT I also prioritise results.

I took a look at one of my players - out the 4 RWs I had at the start, this guy emerged as number 1:

image.png.405a6cf7002951ecd5e6ff31029c5db6.png

image.png.6cfcd42d0fc151e273aa72b267d6dd81.png

So, I love his Crossing, Movement, Pace (and yes Decisions too) but don't like that he's a Selfish prat. If I was picking between two players to buy later on and the other player had similar attributes but higher Teamwork, I'd go with the other player in a snap.

But... let's look at this guy's results:

image.png.db21b7f1d0bcea2f6b479de8d55184ef.png

Providing a lot of assists and not scoring too many goal despite being a selfish a-hole. 

Haksabonovic's team work rating was only 1 higher (10), but he had 6 goals and 8 assists from 19 games, which is why I got rid of him and made Llabres a starter. They both have Cuts Inside, which I don't like, but Llabres sticks to the plan more. Maybe that's because he's younger. Maybe his selfishness will come to the fore as he ages and becomes more established? I don't know. Maybe it's because he is shaped more like a winger than Haksabonovic was, so being selfish means dribbling it and crossing it rather than taking shots.

Anyway, as the save goes on, I will bring in more wonderkids to challenge him, and I will prioritise teamwork in picking them, then I will develop them. If any equal or better Llabres attribute wise, then I will probably give them a chance and see how they perform. If they are better than him, bye bye Llabres. But if not, I will keep him.

So on reflection, yes I do highly value Teamwork and use it to prioritise who I bring in as the save goes on BUT it turns out that's just to get a chance in the team and what really matters is how they perform.

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43 minutes ago, Scratch said:

So I've been thinking some more about this. I do prioritise Teamwork a lot, especially as I go deeper in the save (don't have the luxury at first) BUT I also prioritise results.

I took a look at one of my players - out the 4 RWs I had at the start, this guy emerged as number 1:

image.png.405a6cf7002951ecd5e6ff31029c5db6.png

image.png.6cfcd42d0fc151e273aa72b267d6dd81.png

So, I love his Crossing, Movement, Pace (and yes Decisions too) but don't like that he's a Selfish prat. If I was picking between two players to buy later on and the other player had similar attributes but higher Teamwork, I'd go with the other player in a snap.

But... let's look at this guy's results:

image.png.db21b7f1d0bcea2f6b479de8d55184ef.png

Providing a lot of assists and not scoring too many goal despite being a selfish a-hole. 

Haksabonovic's team work rating was only 1 higher (10), but he had 6 goals and 8 assists from 19 games, which is why I got rid of him and made Llabres a starter. They both have Cuts Inside, which I don't like, but Llabres sticks to the plan more. Maybe that's because he's younger. Maybe his selfishness will come to the fore as he ages and becomes more established? I don't know. Maybe it's because he is shaped more like a winger than Haksabonovic was, so being selfish means dribbling it and crossing it rather than taking shots.

Anyway, as the save goes on, I will bring in more wonderkids to challenge him, and I will prioritise teamwork in picking them, then I will develop them. If any equal or better Llabres attribute wise, then I will probably give them a chance and see how they perform. If they are better than him, bye bye Llabres. But if not, I will keep him.

So on reflection, yes I do highly value Teamwork and use it to prioritise who I bring in as the save goes on BUT it turns out that's just to get a chance in the team and what really matters is how they perform.

I find this stuff genuinely fascinating, so thank you. Like you said earlier, 18 crossing on a 18 heading, etc, matters most. Next up: does ‘takes a good penalty’ actually help? Haha.

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50 minutes ago, Rob said:

Next up: does ‘takes a good penalty’ actually help? Haha.

Funny enough (and I don't know how much relevance this has), but when I signed Tresoldi for my save he had both the "effective free-kick / penalty taker" traits, after a season they just... vanished. I only noticed it at the tail-end of Season 2 after he kept skying penalties. 

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14 hours ago, Scratch said:

Thanks mate, yeah, I'm happy with it in general. I'm basically doing the same thing I've done with the TT Blaster and my 1KC variation of that and it's mostly working... But I knew that Cho and Tel would be great - not sure what PA they have in this save, but they both have really high defaults. Can't go wrong really.  

Well they are looking sweet mate! 😀

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6 hours ago, Rob said:

I find this stuff genuinely fascinating, so thank you. Like you said earlier, 18 crossing on a 18 heading, etc, matters most. Next up: does ‘takes a good penalty’ actually help? Haha.

Yeah, I think it does, but it's not the only thing. When they are young they are gonna miss quite a few, will score more when they are older for eg. A youngster with low pen taking ability will miss more than a youngster with high pen taking ability, but even the one with high pen taking ability will miss a lot while they are young. There might be other stuff that's used, not sure. 

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6 hours ago, BakaSotong said:

Funny enough (and I don't know how much relevance this has), but when I signed Tresoldi for my save he had both the "effective free-kick / penalty taker" traits, after a season they just... vanished. I only noticed it at the tail-end of Season 2 after he kept skying penalties. 

I've seen that sort of thing happen with the message too, but as far as I can tell the actual hidden attributes for pens and set pieces never ever change. Maybe it's some other thing that's changed for him.

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5 hours ago, Woody said:

Well they are looking sweet mate! 😀

Thanks mate, they are sweet indeed! 

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I've said this in a few places, but we generally convert a fair percentage of our shots because we're heading them in from point blank range... Here are our 4 goals away to Hearts in the league:

On the left we have the WB bombing down the wing and crossing into the box and on the right we have the WB, CM and W combining before the W makes the cross.

The second scenario there is very similar to my 4 3 2 1 Sniper tactic - I don't tell the game to go down the flank, but the way the ball comes out of defense (via the WBs) leads to the ball being played down the flank, with those three combining.

I am considering dropping the AM and using an LW instead so we can mirror that dynamic on both sides, but I can only do that when I'm sure  we'll get more goals from that path than we do through the AM - we do get some goals through the middle, not in this game obviously, but against some formations that path is taken more often.

 

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Happy to see Netz is till good in FM23. I used him in my FM22 1k try with Celtic, he took 1 season to adjust to our tactic but then he was solid.

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24 minutes ago, Gonzolito said:

Happy to see Netz is till good in FM23. I used him in my FM22 1k try with Celtic, he took 1 season to adjust to our tactic but then he was solid.

Yeah, I used to use him a lot, but then he got a little more expensive, so don't always use him - but he's still gold.

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29 minutes ago, Scratch said:

One game to go, the Scottish Cup Final, and Cho is on 99 goals:

image.png.359c91f10a5961310327d9640330d672.png

Reckon he gets to 100?

easy.

How did Tel get on?

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13 minutes ago, deepheat83 said:

easy.

I wish!! 

image.png.7ba7036760096a3a14863b6160f21fbd.png

 

As for Tel, not so great. Less goals than last time, less than a goal a game... So we have one half of this firing and one half... needing some work. Not too worried yet, I'm sure I can even it up later...

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Update - Season 2

 

Another season in the bag and we were hoping for a big step up. 

 

Transfers

Spoiler

image.png.f7b66a232941afd4c0d036b7ad3417b0.png

image.png.e50618d5895bce08d44f294f365d2f54.png

image.png.3bd5ec79405ef0f00d36634271108f17.png

image.png.639abdcfca2e2ec910019444b18bd9bf.png

image.png.0d55f2f6d03ed402dda2ae093ea8a69f.png

Before the season started we sold a couple of players who were on the outer or headed that way (Juranovic and Carter-Vickers), got rid of a bunch of average players that came back from loans and released a lot of youngsters. We brought in some quality players (and old favourites), such as Netz and Asprilla, and picked up a couple of wonderkids and some free agents.

In January, we made two big sales: Nakai, who was good, but scored too many goals for my liking, and Maswanhise for much the same reason. Nakai was replaced by Zaire-Emery who looks good and has the added benefit of being French (useful if I get the ITN job). Maswanhise was already 3rd choice, so we brought in two wonderkids to fight for that role. 

 

Tactics

We are still using the 1 2 3 2 2 async format posted previously, but as mentioned above, I am considering moving to a LW.  I'll probably experiment with it next season - but this season we stuck to the tactic.

I did turn on Fast and Wide as the players got better:

  • Fast to get the ball moving on quickly, which hopefully our opponents won't be able to cope with
  • Wide to push the defenders wider and create more space for play through the middle.

Working well for now, but will continue to play with the instructions as we move forward.

I've also been retraining some midfielders as strikers, so I can use them as PFs next to Cho or Tel if one of them is injured or tired. As you know, a two striker formation must be used at all times, but if one of the lads can't play, I don't want another true striker coming in and scoring a bunch! Instead, I want a midfielder to harass the defenders and create opportunities for the main striker. Harper has retrained well, but some of the others didn't, so I gave up and moved to some others (looks like Sancet will retrain).

 

Results

Once again we won everything domestically, getting 139 goals in the league (great, but we need more!):

image.png.b7a28472c49ea5a11fe2a330f3c3b1bd.png

Spoiler

image.png.7d30e57272a131ad024ed38ba4c667fe.png

image.png.40c6dafdf841b2e14c9ab0e8171248e1.png

image.png.4f3a8c06b552dc5ad838647ea8060c5b.png

In Europe, we turned around last year's disappointing effort (only one point in the group stage) and topped the group:

image.png.8954618c2c3d636bb8af07a0047af4ca.png

But at the next stage we had to rest both Cho and Tel in the first leg and Inter destroyed us 4-0. We brought them back for the 2nd leg and dominated, despite having only 10 men for most of the game, but couldn't quite get the late equaliser we needed:

image.png.442cfa66caef7ca22d329c382fbafbda.png

Next year I will be expecting to go much deeper.

 

Development

As mentioned before, all mentoring has now finished because the guys are too good and get upset with having to listen to anyone. I tried to get Tel lined up with Butzke mid season to help with Aerial, but that didn't last long or go anywhere. 

Anyway, the guys progressed steadily throughout the season and now look like this:

image.png.a138056b9eddd3cfe3a0fd4f9c628a65.png 

image.png.36067538c55a23b86e5d51129944167f.png

Looking pretty nice, still a little more to come.

 

Injuries

Training is on Low Intensity to reduce the risk of training injuries and both players are very rarely injured - but we did have an injury this year (Tel out for 3 weeks):

image.png.b6bb65363fa4c852fb9f503a6e6490fb.png

 

Goals

A glorious season for Cho, who dominated the defenses and is already at the level needed to get 2K over 20 or so years:

image.png.7de5fff44c5a66cd16def303bf639922.png

But, it's another story for Tel, who was slow and sluggish to come back from the injury and struggled with becoming jaded throughout the year:

image.png.824305b680e1df3865371752d71ef2ac.png

Fairly disappointing to be honest, but he'll come back stronger next year.

 

Targets

Season Cho Tel
01 42 45
02 99 36
Total 141/2000 81/2000

 

Thoughts on the Future

There's still plenty of time left to even things up, but I will want to see more from Tel next year. 

Apart from that, we'll want to really take our squad to the next level. The first round of singings are doing well, but now we'll look to find young wonderkid regens and mold them into next level players who will make us truly world class. 

 

Thanks for reading!

 

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3 hours ago, Scratch said:

In January, we made two big sales: Nakai, who was good, but scored too many goals for my liking, and Maswanhise for much the same reason.

I'm sure the fans will appreciate that 😂

I don't think could've sold them for that reason tbh. Not even a more defensive role brings that number down? Is it selfishness or low teamwork that causes this? I'm buying the pair in my next save lol.

Doing great so far 👍

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12 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

I'm sure the fans will appreciate that 😂

I don't think could've sold them for that reason tbh. Not even a more defensive role brings that number down? Is it selfishness or low teamwork that causes this? I'm buying the pair in my next save lol.

Doing great so far 👍

I'm sorry, you score when I tell you to and not any other time!! To be fair to the lads though, they didn't score that much.

I had baggage with Nakai scoring too much in a previous save and almost didn't sign him this time, but he's too good for such a low price to ignore at the start. I kept him away from the AM position which can be problematic, but he was still pinging a few from midfield. If an offer hadn't come in and if I hadn't had a couple of others coming through I probably would have kept him, but in that moment, the pain and hurt of previous Nakai's goal came back to me and convinced me to pull the rigger.

As for Maswanhise, yeah he had a few, but not to the point that Haksabanovic did earlier in the save. I didn't like his cuts inside trait (although it's fine on some players), but his main cardinal sin was that his development had maxed out.

I probably should have typed all that, but I took the slightly easy way out in saying they scored too much, which was only part of the story.

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58 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I didn't like his cuts inside trait (although it's fine on some players)

I wonder how many of us look at such traits. I mean.. when this info was first added to the game I really liked seeing what everyone "did" in terms of the kind of player they are. It explained some of the behavior I suppose on the pitch, why one IF does A and the other B when they're similar in skills. Then there came a long period where I couldn't be bothered, then I remember doing a bunch of experiments, but there's just so many outside influences and factors that it's hard to tell how big a role these things play. I'd like to think they do tho, it looks that way.

Maybe I need to start looking into these things again. At least, like you, I could use them as deciding factor when signing or releasing players of similar skill.

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Just now, BatiGoal said:

I wonder how many of us look at such traits. I mean.. when this info was first added to the game I really liked seeing what everyone "did" in terms of the kind of player they are. It explained some of the behavior I suppose on the pitch, why one IF does A and the other B when they're similar in skills. Then there came a long period where I couldn't be bothered, then I remember doing a bunch of experiments, but there's just so many outside influences and factors that it's hard to tell how big a role these things play. I'd like to think they do tho, it looks that way.

Maybe I need to start looking into these things again. At least, like you, I could use them as deciding factor when signing or releasing players of similar skill.

I will admit it's fairly low down on my list of things, especially as there are so few "hugs the line" wingers in the game. They all want to cut inside, the modern little twats... But in my head, I count it against them, especially when I see any other issues. At the end of the day though, if the are assisting and not scoring, then I will keep them!

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