Career The Walking Dead Formations

[BatiGoal]

(I'm slightly embarrassed for not having come up with a better title for this, perhaps still shaking off that rustiness)

My first save in 2023 and I'm fairly excited to see how this career evolves into a complete disaster. Funny thing, I'm not kidding and here's why you're going to agree with me. I'm going to test 4 of my all-time favorite (and successful to varying degrees) formations from previous years / FMM(H) versions on this year's game I have yet to buy - writing this career post kind of ensures I'm left with no other option!

First thing I believe most of us do when acquiring a new game is testing and experimenting with last version's success formations and tactics, see how well (or badly) they transition into a new update and tweak when/if necessary to perfection - not always a guarantee for success. Only then might we take on a challenge or embark on a career. I too find a dark quiet corner and anticipate how old formations react to new games - see what works and what does not. Having said that, I have a tendency to make bad decisions every so often and today feels like one of those days. I've never done anything like this so I've set my expectations to 0 and see where the journey takes me. It's definitely not any achievement I'm after, it's very much and only the journey with my fellow Vibers this challenge brings. Hope you hop onboard too and enjoy the ride. Question -> how many days/weeks/months do you think this ride will last? Will I even make it to the end of the season?

The rule for this career is plain and simple:

• Lose a game and switch to the next formation until all 4 have been tried and tested. After 4 losses it's END OF CAREER.

 

Meet the formations in chronological order:

2015 : 4-2-4 Grande Torino (GTO)

Spoiler

My attempt to recreate a tactic that had brought the maroon side of Turin 5 consecutive Serie A titles, as well as worldwide fame to its manager and stars for their attractive play. The introduction of FMH16 brought an abrupt end to my wonderful GTO. The 4-2-4 Grande Torino tactic fell apart like a house of cards. FMH17 came along next and my hopes for GTO's resurrection were crushed shortly after. FMM18 no different, many test games later the tactic remained unreliable and highly inconsistent. FMM19 saw a slight improvement in results but still not the oiled machine it once was. Remains untested ever since.

2016 : 4-1-4-1 Classic BatiGoals

Spoiler

A formation that has worked wonders for me back in '16. Flanks can be swapped depending on my players and their footedness. The combination WB+IF and FB+W can be played on either side, also depending on where my coaches smell a weakness to exploit. CF up front is the best pick but needs to be very solid. If not I'll go with a pacey AF. Third option is a Poacher. BBM in center works terribly good. Lots of goals from him too (well, back in the day that is) and if he's not great I'll tweak to a DLP or CM, depending on my squad players' abilities to play any of those roles. Done reasonably well since but untested in 2022 and 2023.

2017 : 2-2-1-5 BG's Knock-Out

Spoiler

Derived from the original 1-2-7 formation that was used during the earliest football days back in the 1860s-1870s. That particular one had zero chance of succeeding in FMM, but with a bit of imagination, tweaks and tests this 2-2-1-5 T.K.O. ('T-shaped' formation) came to life. T.K.O. stands for Tactical Knock Out since the idea is to tactically overwhelm the opponent and knock them out with all the attacking prowess up front, before they find a working remedy to counter it. Simply put, we shall outscore opponents and forget about keeping clean sheets. Never worked as well after future updates and remains untested since 2020's version.

2018/19 : 3-4-3 Cruijff's Diamond

Spoiler

Probably the one that's brought me the most success, but also yet to be tested on today's version. WMs in this formation are absolutely crucial. If the players aren't up to the task of running up and down the flanks to support both ends of the pitch this formation becomes inconsistent and it'll show in the results. Named after a Dutch legend of the game and the many "diamonds" this shape creates all over the grass. Great possession % when playing high tempo + short passing + wide shape. Oh, did I mention...one needs "total footballers" for this to work. Does 2023 favor diamonds?

 

• My updates will include "What Went Right & What Went Wrong" for each of these 4 formations.

I'm still deciding on what club to use for this but it needs to be a decent enough team that can carry out the 4 aforementioned formations with minimal additions to the squad. I promise I'm not picking one of the top teams in the game but to give ourselves a fair chance of completing at least 1 season, I'm not picking one of the worst either. Keep in mind, these tactics have worked like a charm during different stages of my FM life, but are very much raw and untested in today's game. Tho I'll try to make things click through player rotation / team instructions / role tweaks etc as we go. The formations themselves will remain unchanged throughout the career.

Many of you already have some experience with this year's game, I have none, so out of these 4 "dead formations" which one do you expect will survive the longest? Also, which club would you like to see me use for this, please post your thoughts and wish me luck 🤞

[broodje kip]

This is actually interesting. Looking forward for this 10 seasons career.

[StuartM]

Good luck mate... as I'm still tweaking tactics in FMM23 I'm probably not qualified to comment 😂 but I'd like to see how the 343 gets on and how you get it to work. TKO looks a bit mad, I imagine every game would be a goalfest without fail. The 4141 is a different take, that could work well but I've no experience on that shape. Really interested in what you find out.

[Woody]

GTO for me. 

I've tested four striker formations for a challenge i have in mind and wanted to do for awhile. Just couldnt find the right combination to get the goals from all four.

[BatiGoal]

43 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

This is actually interesting. Looking forward for this 10 seasons career.

If I achieve such greatness I'll retire from the game.

44 minutes ago, StuartM said:

Good luck mate... as I'm still tweaking tactics in FMM23 I'm probably not qualified to comment 😂 but I'd like to see how the 343 gets on and how you get it to work. TKO looks a bit mad, I imagine every game would be a goalfest without fail. The 4141 is a different take, that could work well but I've no experience on that shape. Really interested in what you find out.

I think (hope) 424, 4141, 343 do a good enough job to just get me to the end of the season. The 2215 won't last long I'm afraid, if I get 5-8 games without losing out of if I'll be delighted. That'll be a bonus step closer to May.

37 minutes ago, Woody said:

GTO for me. 

I've tested four striker formations for a challenge i have in mind and wanted to do for awhile. Just couldnt find the right combination to get the goals from all four.

It's works really well for me.. .. ..in 2015 😆

[Woody]

1 hour ago, BatiGoal said:

It's works really well for me.. .. ..in 2015 😆

Yeah you might find it abit harder this year 🤣

[FuddledFox]

I’ve had some success (and some failures) with a 424 this year so it can be hit and miss depending on the players available.

Should be an interesting read this.

[DutchTony]

I'd love the 5 up front to work!

[BatiGoal]

5 hours ago, FuddledFox said:

I’ve had some success (and some failures) with a 424 this year so it can be hit and miss depending on the players available.

Bought the game last night and played around with a 334 which is surprisingly stable. Quite a few tweaks away from making it challenge worthy tho.

Have *not* tried any of the 4 "dead formations" yet, those will only get their "walk" during the career. Just looking for a suitable club at the moment.

2 hours ago, DutchTony said:

I'd love the 5 up front to work!

Someone will get hammered, that I promise. 😂

[till malkovich]

could you share Diamond Cruyff's 3-4-3 tactics?

It seems to me that this tactic is ideal for my team, I will be grateful.

[BatiGoal]

2 hours ago, till malkovich said:

could you share Diamond Cruyff's 3-4-3 tactics?

It seems to me that this tactic is ideal for my team, I will be grateful.

All of the above formations have outdated instructions, which no longer work on today's game. My challenge here is to attempt tweaking those into 2023 tactics and make them work.

I haven't tried any of them yet but I plan to start the career this week and share tactics for all of them, one at the time. Cruijff's Diamond is the last one of the four. 

[BakaSotong]

One heck of an idea, can't wait to see how it goes mate! Would definitely be interesting to see how you'd adapt them to this year's version.

[BatiGoal]

32 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

One heck of an idea, can't wait to see how it goes mate! Would definitely be interesting to see how you'd adapt them to this year's version.

I've made a start already and now there's a red square on the fixtures list 😂 time to pause the career and write an update..

[Scratch]

Love this! I'm partial the the BG KO myself. remember that well and probably inspired my TT Blaster at least to some degree (wasn't quite crazy enough to go 5 up front, but it helped me get more adventurous).

Can wait to read this update on the first formation.

[BatiGoal]

Time to get this career underway.

 

The Walking Dead Formations

 

Club: Atalanta - very nice and large starting squad and perfectly capable of playing the 4 formations needed for this challenge.

Transfers: None. No need. Good squad depth already. Not wasting time shopping.

First Formation: 4-2-4 Grande Torino - GTO (2015)

It's a great style for those who like end-to-end stuff. At times a manager's nightmare to get consistency out of it. Here's why - you're pretty much always going to get outnumbered in midfield. So we basically don't want the ball to be spending too much time there as that's not to our advantage. It's too big a risk and losing possession there guarantees big trouble. Our strength lies at both ends, not the middle, so we want to skip the middle part. Or at least minimize the dangers thru quick and direct play / passes before the opponent has time to (re)organize. It works, and it doesn't 😆 let's have a look at what went wrong & what went right.

 

What Went Wrong

There's a couple, but the one I need to highlight is the main one. Fix this and you're on your way to creating a solid and promising formation. You're always outnumbered in midfield, pretty much in every game. There's no denying in this and probably most of you saw that straightaway. There's no team facing you with a single player in midfield, which means you're in most cases up against 3, 4 or 5 midfielders. Even tho there's a way around this, (more on this in a minute) being outnumbered 2 to 5 as shown in the picture, it almost begs you to have to play a different system when facing 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 adversaries. You're under pressure and fail to create enough chances for your strikers. Imo, the safest solution is to add 1 or 2 players otherwise you're just inviting the opposition to come at you and get shots on target. That's what went wrong eventually and that's why I lost (not this game in particular but v Udinese, a team that efficiently exploited the gaping gap and killed me with a last-minute winner) - if you do like this formation and insist on using it most of the time, consider playing 3-3-4 (push def up) or 4-3-3 (pull forward back) when up against a quality 5-midfield side. From the start or in 2nd half depending how things work for you. Back in 2015 I had to because my challenge was to emulate IL Grande Torino and it worked beautifully.

 

What Went Right 

Addressing the weak point went right, to a certain extent of course. And that's very clear in the picture, we're no longer outnumbered in the middle of the park if we're instructing the IWBs to push forward and go inside to support midfield. We're very much a 2-4-4 at this point. So using the player roles to strengthen our weak point (even the Pressing Forward was in midfield parts of the game to give us 5 in center) is a great way to maintain 4 players on both ends in large parts of the game. Defense has looked solid throughout, not conceding overly much and Forwards have had decent amount of time on the ball creating and scoring, with better players we'd have gotten better numbers there, more chances -> more goals.

Another positive I've seen is that even without high press, just having the presence of 4 forwards near the opposition goal makes it harder for their defenders to start any decent build up from the back. This became particularly clear to me v Milan in a pre-season friendly, they were the much better side. My front 4 disrupted their build up to prevent our mids from being overrun everytime. When they did succeed tho we were in trouble and would've lost easily had this match up been later in the season with their more in form strikers in front of our goal. Now with subs up to 5 it's just perfect to rotate the front 4 and keep energy levels high near their goal. Add -high press- to that and imagine the mistakes you force upon teams wanting to create from the back. The GK more often that not yanks a long ball which gives us a 50-50 opportunity to reclaim it. In all, with quality players all-round and more player role tweaks in the right places at the right games this actually might work wonders again.

 

Results

Can we consider this a success, well, no we can't. And I say that because this tactic was originally designed to score many more goals than we did. We did win a fair number of games, but we play a front 4 for a reason. It's intended for 1k, 2k or beyond challenges with multiple forwards. We scored goals but not the plethora we were hoping for. Back in 2015 when I did score better with this style I had 2 monsters in the center circle connecting both ends. They were tireless intelligent brutes with a touch of magic. They were strong enough to not necessarily outplay 4 or 5 men they were up against, but not being dominated either. That's the crux of a successful 4-2-4, don't seek for midfield domination - you won't - just make sure your 2 mid-men nullify their "numerical advantage" and you win the battle as you've got more numbers on either end of the pitch. We created a lot more, which is what we lacked in almost every game today. Having said that, I wouldn't this quickly write it off either after a single loss. Those things can happen easily in a game, especially considering the risk this formation brings. So not bad I'd say for a "dead" 4-2-4 but as per the challenge rules, we lost 1 game so we must move on to the second formation: 4-1-4-1 Classic BatiGoals (2016) I'm excited!!

If you have any questions or want to see additional info regarding this tactic, team shape / instructions, player roles or stats, feel free to ask.

See you at the next loss ..

[BakaSotong]

Good stuff man! IWBs are great this year, I've been using them this whole year. They're already really good in the LB/RB spot, but I feel like the LWB/RWB spot is where they really shine, especially if the midfield is set up properly. In my Triple Threat tactic (you can check that out here) I only run one CM in the midfield, but I think that gives the IWBs the space to really charge up the field. I've seen them play up to an attacking midfield spot, and then tracking all the way back to their original position in defense. They'll need a lot of stamina & pace in order to pull this off, but when it works it feels like you'll have 2 guys everywhere on the pitch. With 2 or more midfielders they don't push up as much, but it still has the same effect. 

BTW, I think your 4-2-4 is already great, but if it were me I'd run it a bit differently:

Spoiler

I have no idea if this will work, this is just an idea I had. It's kinda ripping off my TT tactic, but I guess it isn't plagiarism if I'm copying myself...? Personally I would move my IWBs up to the LWB/RWB position, but I want to stay true to the formation as much as I can.

 

Anyways, I really enjoyed your write-up, keep it up! Can't wait to see whether the 2-2-1-5 will work, it seems so ridiculous that it might just work =P
 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BakaSotong

[BatiGoal]

41 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

In my Triple Threat tactic (you can check that out here) I only run one CM in the midfield, but I think that gives the IWBs the space to really charge up the field.

Interesting indeed. The more space ahead of them the more "inverted" they become so to speak.

43 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

BTW, I think your 4-2-4 is already great, but if it were me I'd run it a bit differently:

Looks nice, haven't tried a double PF on the flanks. Unfortunately wasn't given enough games, but .. theoretically.. it could mean better numbers in the middle to support and create chances for the strikers. Will definitely try it once this career ends. Thanks for the idea.

45 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

Anyways, I really enjoyed your write-up, keep it up! Can't wait to see whether the 2-2-1-5 will work, it seems so ridiculous that it might just work =P

Thanks, glad people enjoy the read. I'm praying the 4-1-4-1 gets me at least into Dec or Jan, because the 2-2-1-5 ..no idea what to expect from that. After that there's only The Diamond left to get me to the end of the season.

[Scratch]

Great stuff Bati and you went much further without a loss than I expected (what a doubter am I).

That looks really promising. With a stronger team (ie some wonderkids leveled up over a couple of years), the goals would start really flowing and you'd carry the midfield battle on quality alone despite being down on numbers. 

As for PFs, they've been pretty effective in the last couple of years, worth experimenting with at some point (I use them sometimes, but always come back to TF).

 

[BakaSotong]

2 hours ago, BatiGoal said:

Looks nice, haven't tried a double PF on the flanks. Unfortunately wasn't given enough games, but .. theoretically.. it could mean better numbers in the middle to support and create chances for the strikers. Will definitely try it once this career ends. Thanks for the idea.

LMK how it goes! Glad I could help ^w^

2 hours ago, BatiGoal said:

Thanks, glad people enjoy the read. I'm praying the 4-1-4-1 gets me at least into Dec or Jan, because the 2-2-1-5 ..no idea what to expect from that. After that there's only The Diamond left to get me to the end of the season.

I can see the 4-1-4-1 & 3-4-3 carrying over well into this year's game. I myself use WMs and they seem to work really well, acting like wingers but without stealing goals from the strikers and (mostly) staying wide. Good luck!

[Woody]

Love it.

I think this is where the single defender policy comes into it and maybe go with a 1-2-3-4 inverted wingbacks or maybe a flat 3 at the back with DFB's and a sindle CD.

 

[BatiGoal]

10 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Great stuff Bati and you went much further without a loss than I expected (what a doubter am I).

I did ask everyone to keep expectations low, didn't expect you would tho 😆

11 minutes ago, Scratch said:

As for PFs, they've been pretty effective in the last couple of years, worth experimenting with at some point (I use them sometimes, but always come back to TF).

This is my first time using them, can be a terrific asset in the right system from the looks of it.

13 minutes ago, BakaSotong said:

I can see the 4-1-4-1 & 3-4-3 carrying over well into this year's game. I myself use WMs and they seem to work really well, acting like wingers but without stealing goals from the strikers and (mostly) staying wide. Good luck!

My experience as well, hope this year's game is no different.

13 minutes ago, Woody said:

Love it.

I think this is where the single defender policy comes into it and maybe go with a 1-2-3-4 inverted wingbacks or maybe a flat 3 at the back with DFB's and a sindle CD.

 

1-2-3-4 .. sounds so very wrong yet wonderfully fatal at the same time 😁 lots of ideas to experiment with. Busy weeks ahead!

[broodje kip]

That’s a great result. Classic Bati surely was great back in the days. Looking forward to see how it does in 23.

[BatiGoal]

36 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

That’s a great result. Classic Bati surely was great back in the days. Looking forward to see how it does in 23.

It was and it is, but... I messed up big time! So gutted right now. GUTTED. Rookie mistake. I don't want to spoil too much ahead of the next update, but there's already another red result on the fixtures list. 😭 

I better start writing how things went ..<shaking head in disbelief> ..

[BakaSotong]

4 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

It was and it is, but... I messed up big time! So gutted right now. GUTTED. Rookie mistake. I don't want to spoil too much ahead of the next update, but there's already another red result on the fixtures list. 😭 

I better start writing how things went ..<shaking head in disbelief> ..

Oh well, happens to the best of us man. It's alright, you still got 2 more formations to burn through :3

[BatiGoal]

The Walking Dead Formations

 

Second Formation: 4-1-4-1 Classic BatiGoals (2016)

It was 2016 when I was tinkering with formations, trying to get something to work - ANYTHING - to get a player to score 1000 goals. That was the Holy Grail on Vibe, I believe it still is in a way. I remember starting out with a regular 4-4-2 and countless of tests, experiments, tweaks and mutations later I ended up with this Classic BatiGoals. The idea behind this formation isn't overly complicated. It's a basic backline of 4 (I couldn't get 2 or 3 to work) a single guy up front for the 1k goals and the other 5 behind to serve him and do the dirty work. 4 unsung heroes in the AM strata because it looked real nice in theory and a single CM to connect the dots. It worked wonderfully well.

 

What Went Wrong

Well, a couple things went wrong. First, the original formation requires a solid BBM to run up and down the field. I don't really have one of those in my squad, De Roon comes close, but I opted for the CM role in this game instead. I feel that's my error of judgement, I admit. A BBM *may* have intercepted play, or at the very least in this particular pic be positioned better -a little deeper- to halt the threat. It's no guarantee he would, but he certainly would've given us a higher chance to clear the danger before it was too late. That's one.

Second, we lost possession due to a faulty pass and we're caught out. The now 5 players in AM strata are in front of the ball whereas the opponent is rushing towards goal outnumbering us by 2. So in way it's great to have plenty of att.minded midfielders but you need to make sure the boys can pass a ball to a matching shirt color. High greens in Decisions and Passing are essential to make this system tick and avoid the above scenario. Overall, this formation works best with short passing, narrow shape and attack mentality (home / vs. weaker sides) and control (away / vs. stronger sides), but it may take a season or two before having the perfect passers to play this game.

 

What Went Right 

This is a great example of how and why the 4-1-4-1 has (and can be) so successful. It's exactly what it was intended to do back in 2016 and now with the more detailed team instructions and the 2023 update it looks very much like it once was. I've instructed the AM players behind my striker to keep the ball and "lure" defenders towards them, freeing up space for my goal-scorer in the process. Those are my theory and thoughts behind it anyway. You clearly see 1 CB move forward towards the AP who's passed the ball in time to my striker. He's now 1 on 1 with the 2nd CB and is therefore much better positioned for an epic finish. One way to accomplish this is "work into box" and "run at defence" as they *tend* to keep the ball longer at their feet thus attracting defenders. That's what I've been observing with this team during the highlights since playing this formation and roles.

By selecting the opposites "shoot on sight" or "through balls" the AMs release the ball too quick for my liking, and my striker then always ends up facing at least 2 CBs - not ideal. It still works and you'll score plenty of goals this way too, but for 1k challenges, opening up space for the 1-man frontline gets you more goals from a single player in my opinion. This seemed to work less effectively in the 2018-2019 series. Was the AI too "dumb" and the CBs just stood there waiting to do a job? Are they now "smarter" and actively going to where the danger is? That's where Zonal and Man marking play a role as well. It's always a "guessing game" what new FMM series bring, that's why we love doing these tests year after year. Could it be the year of the 4-1-4-1 ?

 

Results

Now here's the embarrassing part - I totally mistook Napoli for a much weaker (unknown to me) side in the Cup. I knew it was a Cup game and noticed Parthe.what.not and decided to rotate my squad and play subs. Rookie error from an FMM vet pfff. Thinking my starters deserved a welcome rest, before I knew it I was 2 goals down. What side is this and why are they so quick on the counter 😂😂 I never recovered - thus my 2nd loss became reality. I'm still gutted but so be it. I honestly feel this formation has a lot more to give. The 4-2-4 is harder in a way as I feel it needs more and constant tweaks depending on the opposition and exploitable flanks, whereas this 4-1-4-1 has the potential to be plug&play - well, there's no such thing imo but I mean close to it - and with the right players and roles.

I'm very optimistic about what I've seen, albeit after less than a dozen games in, I definitely think I can re-use Classic BatiGoals for 2023 challenges. Shame, a premature death, but unfortunately we must move on. 20 games left in the league and I can afford only 1 more loss. I was hoping to have fewer games left at this point, ah well, on to the third formation: 2-2-1-5 BG's Knock-Out - TKO (2017) I'm a little worried for what's to come. It's a leap into the unknown with this one.

If you have any questions or want to see additional info regarding this tactic, team shape / instructions, player roles or stats, feel free to ask.

See you at the next loss ..

[Scratch]

Parthe? Nope!

Lol, that gave me a good laugh, can totally see how that happened, just another unknown team in the cup. Shame you didn't get longer with this one, looks pretty promising.

Another great write up, love the explanations, gives me plenty to think about with my own tactics, maybe time to spend a little bit more time with it to eke out a little more. 

But anyway, now we're on to the the tactic I really want to see. Can't wait for the big TKO!

[BatiGoal]

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

Parthe? Nope!

Lol, that gave me a good laugh, can totally see how that happened, just another unknown team in the cup. Shame you didn't get longer with this one, looks pretty promising.

I need to download the namefix file asap. Just hope Sam never sees this, that'll never be the end of it.

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

Another great write up, love the explanations, gives me plenty to think about with my own tactics, maybe time to spend a little bit more time with it to eke out a little more

Thanks mate. I like watching highlights for tests and experiments, but never ever during regular careers.

[Scratch]

16 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

I need to download the namefix file asap. Just hope Sam never sees this, that'll never be the end of it.

By Sam, do you mean @samhardy ?

Totally innocent question, lol. You should be safe though, Sam sees all, but never posts... I think his keyboard is broken or something. Mind you if anything could get Sam posting again (which would be great for Vibe), it would be the chance to remind you of something like this! Sorry.

20 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Thanks mate. I like watching highlights for tests and experiments, but never ever during regular careers.

I prefer doing proper tests etc and repeating the same game etc, but I don't get enough time anymore to dedicate time to tests - so I test on the go in real careers. Has led to some staggering improvements (maybe 30 extra goals per season once I realised certain formations left my striker against 3 or 4 players and putting a PF next to him brought it down to 1 or 2). Has also led to some great frustration where I can't tell what works (they all work a bit, but can't isolate which is 'best', because it's always the next opposition). 

Not the best approach, but gotta work with what you got as they say...

[BatiGoal]

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

Sam sees all, but never posts... I think his keyboard is broken or something.

Last I heard was he's serving a ban for throwing darts at the opposing GK. 

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

I prefer doing proper tests etc and repeating the same game etc,

I do miss that too. A little boring tho when you're left with no findings, but there's always something new to learn or take from it.

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

I realised certain formations left my striker against 3 or 4 players and putting a PF next to him brought it down to 1 or 2).

Very cool. Great feeling when the hard work pays off and you see that tally go up.

[Scratch]

1 minute ago, BatiGoal said:

Last I heard was he's serving a ban for throwing darts at the opposing GK. 

That'd be right. Though to be honest I think he went quiet around the time Sunderland got relegated to the VNL... 😀

2 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Very cool. Great feeling when the hard work pays off and you see that tally go up.

Yeah, that was great, let me break through a barrier I thought was impossible...