Tactics 4-2-4: Return To Disco

[BakaSotong]

Just a bit of context as to how this came about. If you wanna skip ahead to the tactic, feel free to scroll down to the “TACTICS” part. Anyways: @BatiGoal currently has a thread going where he’s testing his old formations from past iterations of the game (you can check that out here). I thought the 4-2-4 he used had promise, so I tweaked it a little bit to make it work even better.

 

HOW I TESTED THE FORMATION:

Spoiler

Similar to Bati, I picked Atalanta. A competitive team, but not overpowered. I figured that if they want to push for both Europe & the title, the tactic must help them overperform. To ensure that the team’s performance is moreso due to the tactic and not the players, I didn’t make any transfers aside from selling Pasalic & Gosens, due to them constantly bemoaning the lack of European football (funny enough, Pasalic went to a side that's battling against relegation, so I’m not sure what he’s thinking). To replace them, I did my best to sign players of similar calibre so as to not ruin the testing, hence Mario Götze & Matías Viña came in. I also called a few players back from loan (quick question, why does Atalanta have so many players out on loan? The B team literally can’t hold all of them) and adjusted training for everyone accordingly, but aside from that, no other changes were made.

 

HOW DOES IT WORK?

Spoiler

The intent of the IRL 4-2-4 was to “effectively use six defenders and six forwards, with the midfielders performing both tasks” (quote was directly yoinked from Wikipedia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). I’d like to think we achieved that in-game.

 

In Possession:

(Excuse my piss-poor scrawling)

 

This is how the team typically looks when we’re in possession; essentially we’ve committed 8 players forward, forming a 2-2-2-4. The IWBs will become pseudo-CMs, cutting inwards, thus allowing the midfielders themselves to push forward into a AM position either to draw defenders and lay a pass to an open forward, or to shoot themselves. The IWBs aren’t afraid to push even further though; occasionally, when a CM is held up by the opposition’s defence and is struggling to go forward with the ball, an IWB will make an overlapping run and go into the AM position instead. Meanwhile, the PFs will stay wide and either cross / pass into the box or to an unmarked midfielder, while the STs will stay central. 

 

Out Of Possession:

(Wasn’t able to get a good picture in-game so this is the next best thing I got, sorry y’all)

 

When the opposition is in possession, the IWBs will fan back out and line up with the centre-backs, while the midfielders will drop back as much as they can. The PFs will drop slightly deeper than the strikers, while the strikers themselves will hover around the midfield. However, as Bati mentioned in his post, the presence of 4 forwards places an immense amount of pressure on the backline, not only making it hard to build up from behind, but also makes mistakes occur more often. It’s not uncommon to see defenders make a stray pass, or have the forwards instantly win the ball back after losing it and scoring. I guess it’s as the saying goes, the best defence is a good offence. 

 

Essentially, the key as to why this formation works is the rapid transition from defence to attack. No matter how much you try, you’re not going to have possession with only 2 true midfielders. But if you’re able to numerically overwhelm the other team and get the ball upfield before they even realize what’s going on, it doesn’t matter.

 

RESULTS:

Spoiler

 

TL; DR:

 

It’s not an insane amount of goals, but considering we didn’t “optimize” (i.e signing the “right” type of players) the team and only worked with what we had, I think it’s nevertheless respectable. I’m certain that with enough development, the goal tally can be immensely improved. Surprisingly we conceded the least in the League, I was by no means trying to create a defensively solid tactic. I ain't complaining though =P  

 

TACTICS:

 

Two things you can do if you’re struggling:

1. If you’re coming up against a much stronger team or just generally struggling during a match, switch from “attacking” to either “control” or “balanced”. Both seem to work for me, but depending on your team results may vary.
2. Switching from “balanced” to “disciplined” for creative freedom might help if you’re coming up against extremely defensive teams (like that accursed 3-4-3 but with 2DMs and WBs instead of L/RMs asdfghjkl). I say “might” because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t have a proper fix for when it doesn’t work; maybe dropping the tempo might help, but take that suggestion with a grain of salt.
    

There’s also one other thing you should tweak depending on your strikers, but I’ll address that in the topic below. 

 

WHAT KIND OF PLAYERS TO USE:
(Green means the attribute should be at least 15, blue is at least 12 unless stated otherwise. This is assuming you're managing in a top-tier team / league, the numbers are not set in stone)

 

• Decisions & Teamwork are important for every player. For IWBs and the forwards, Pace should be highly prioritized; for the others, Pace is not as important but still good to have.
• SK: Your standard goalkeeper duties are paired with the responsibility of yeeting the ball upfield without giving it away. Aside from the usual (Aerial, Agility, Handling, Reflexes), Kicking is also vital. 
• BPDs: Nothing special here either, the key attributes (Aerial, Positioning, Strength, Tackling) & Passing will be good enough. 
• IWBs: They’ll need attributes that suit both a midfielder and a full-back. Movement & Passing are crucial; Positioning & Tackling will be good to have as well. Also: The left IWB should preferably be left-footed, and the right IWB should be right-footed.
• BBM: The more defensive of the two midfielders. Passing, Positioning & Tackling are the more important attributes as a result, but Movement & Shooting should be sought after too, so as not to negate his offensive duties.
• RP: The opposite of the BBM, focusing more on the offensive side of the game. Attributes like Passing are still important, but Movement, Stamina (if anyone needs it, it’s going to be this guy) & Shooting (it would be green but CMs with 15 or more Shooting are far and few in-between) takes precedence; Positioning & Tackling take a backseat this time round. 
• PFs: Movement, Passing & Shooting are what to look out for. I suspect higher Aggression helps, though I have no evidence. Similar to the IWBs, the left PF should be left-footed, and the right PF, right-footed.
• AF: Movement & Shooting (as high as possible) are the key stats. Passing is important here as well, since this player will be responsible for both scoring and assisting the Poacher when possible. One more thing to take note is the strong foot of this player; if they’re right-footed, play them on the right, and vice versa.
• Poacher: Similar to the AF (Movement & Shooting), but his main & only focus will be banging the goals in. As a result, Aerial & Strength will be helpful here. Take note that if the AF is right-footed, the Poacher should be right-footed as well, and vice versa.

 

I doubt it's going to break any records, but it’s a fun, aggressive tactic with high shot volume that should allow most teams to overperform without needing to change too much. Hopefully you guys enjoy it, if you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to ask. Thanks!

 

 

PS: If anyone's wondering why the title is "Return To Disco", IRL the 4-2-4 was popularized during the late 60s to 70s in Brazil, hence sharing its heyday with disco. IDK, I just thought it was catchy, I'm not too great at naming things admittedly.
 

Edited February 2, 2023 by BakaSotong

[BatiGoal]

Very enjoyable read 👍

Good to see you've made it work even better. As per my challenge I had to abandon this formation after a handful of games, but you played a full season. A little bit of a shakey start, which is no more than normal when (re)building a squad, after 1-2 seasons of improvements the differences in performance and results are significant.

Hope others get to revive it as well.

[BakaSotong]

Just now, BatiGoal said:

Very enjoyable read 👍

Good to see you've made it work even better. As per my challenge I had to abandon this formation after a handful of games, but you played a full season. A little bit of a shakey start, which is no more than normal when (re)building a squad, after 1-2 seasons of improvements the differences in performance and results are significant.

Hope others get to revive it as well.

Glad to hear you've enjoyed my write-up! I do remember a few others said they were gonna test it out, I'm curious to see what they end up with.

[BarnDoor]

I've actually been using a similar formation in one of my saves. Its shocking that even the player roles match lol. The only difference is that instead of 2 PFs I have 2 IFs.

Team instructions are a bit different, mostly the final third ones. I believe I'm using work into box and run at defence since my midfielders can't shoot 🙄

[BakaSotong]

18 hours ago, BarnDoor said:

I've actually been using a similar formation in one of my saves. Its shocking that even the player roles match lol. The only difference is that instead of 2 PFs I have 2 IFs.

Team instructions are a bit different, mostly the final third ones. I believe I'm using work into box and run at defence since my midfielders can't shoot 🙄

That's one way to go about it, kinda the opposite of mine funny enough xD

 

How do the IFs work for ya, BTW? Have barely used them this year, so I have zero idea how they are in-game.

Edited February 1, 2023 by BakaSotong

[BarnDoor]

3 hours ago, BakaSotong said:

How do the IFs work for ya, BTW? Have barely used them this year, so I have zero idea how they are in-game.

They are pretty much useless if played in the attacking mid row. Had some success when switching them to IWs and even wingers (opposite foot ofc), but nothing conclusive. In next game they'd go back to being invisible on the pitch.

They are decent/good (depending on your standards) when pushed up to the striker row, but still wide to actually have IF role. I havent been able to get more than 30 goals in a season from any of my IFs yet. Looking at real life numbers, thats pretty good, but I want FM numbers! 😂

[BakaSotong]

12 hours ago, BarnDoor said:

They are pretty much useless if played in the attacking mid row. Had some success when switching them to IWs and even wingers (opposite foot ofc), but nothing conclusive. In next game they'd go back to being invisible on the pitch.

They are decent/good (depending on your standards) when pushed up to the striker row, but still wide to actually have IF role. I havent been able to get more than 30 goals in a season from any of my IFs yet. Looking at real life numbers, thats pretty good, but I want FM numbers! 😂

If you aren't already, maybe an AP at AM might help. Keeping it on your current instructions ("work into box" and "run at defence") seems logical enough, since the two instructions together should encourage your IFs to cut into the box. 

 

That being said, if you're already running 2 strikers in the middle, most of the goals are going to go to them no matter what you do, with the exception that you're running both as trequartistas, maybe. Unless you're scoring an insane amount, maybe 200 or more per season, more than 30 goals for a wide player seems difficult (not too sure since I've basically used players on the wings exclusively as assist machines this year), but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Good luck!

[MikeS91]

Very enjoyable read👍🏼👍🏼can you share first 11 from the first season?

[BakaSotong]

3 hours ago, MikeS91 said:

Very enjoyable read👍🏼👍🏼can you share first 11 from the first season?

I had two "sets" of teams I would rotate with each other, depending on how fit they were and the strength of the opposition.

 

1st team:

As the title suggests, this is the stronger lineup out of the two. Originally Gosens (called back from loan at Inter) and Pasalic were playing at the LB and RCM spot respectively, but they both kept whining about eUrOpEaN fOuTbAwL hence why they aren't here. IMO they're both decent players, just not worth the hassle.

 

2nd team:

 

Bench lineup:

• Whichever one of the 4 center backs were not in the main line-up
• M. Ruggeri
• D. Zappacosta
• G. Scalvini (probably better off as a CB, but since I didn't want to be too involved in the transfer market I retrained him as MC)
• Ederson
• S. Lammers (called back from loan at Frankfurt)
• V. Kovalenko (called back from loan at Spezia)
• The last two slots were taken by whichever strikers weren't playing that day

Edited February 2, 2023 by BakaSotong

[BarnDoor]

9 hours ago, BakaSotong said:

If you aren't already, maybe an AP at AM might help. Keeping it on your current instructions ("work into box" and "run at defence") seems logical enough, since the two instructions together should encourage your IFs to cut into the box. 

 

That being said, if you're already running 2 strikers in the middle, most of the goals are going to go to them no matter what you do, with the exception that you're running both as trequartistas, maybe. Unless you're scoring an insane amount, maybe 200 or more per season, more than 30 goals for a wide player seems difficult (not too sure since I've basically used players on the wings exclusively as assist machines this year), but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Good luck!

Well, in this formations my IFs are definitely not as good as in some others.

Basic 41221 with IFs pushed forward to the attacker row works fine. Double box to box midfielders and roamer in the DM spot have given me best results so far. Regular WBs or IWBs, depending on your striker's aerial.

Playing with AP in am spot hasn't really worked well for me. Neither him nor IFs would do any good. As far as attacking mid goes, SS seems like the best role this year.

[Save&Repeat]

Why do people post tactics without results?

[DanEnglish]

4 hours ago, Save&Repeat said:

Why do people post tactics without results?

The original post contained results - in a spoiler literally called “results” 🙂 

[Kingu5757]

Question

How do i neet to training pf role do it need to change position or i can training player as inside forward?