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Is it just me, or is the AI incredible at putting their chances away whereas my players need 10/15 shots to manage a goal. 

And I'm not just talking about Clear Cut opportunities, the AI score almost every shot they have from distance and are unbelievable from set pieces. 

I'm fed up of dominating games, creating chance after chance only to lost to a 40 yard screamer that seemingly goes through my keeper. 

This has to be a bug and really needs fixing in the next game. It makes this game so frustrating and unplayable at times. 

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58 minutes ago, CJ_Randell said:

Is it just me, or is the AI incredible at putting their chances away whereas my players need 10/15 shots to manage a goal. 

And I'm not just talking about Clear Cut opportunities, the AI score almost every shot they have from distance and are unbelievable from set pieces. 

I'm fed up of dominating games, creating chance after chance only to lost to a 40 yard screamer that seemingly goes through my keeper. 

This has to be a bug and really needs fixing in the next game. It makes this game so frustrating and unplayable at times. 

This is also a problem for me as well as the opposition goalkeeers always having a 8/9 rating by half time after saving 10+ shots on target. I see it as a lazy way of increasing the difficulty of the game, instead of having the opposition actually play well and create chances, they are just overly clinical and their goalkeepers save everything.

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Infrequently happens to me but only for one half generally. It's opposite for me as we always manage to not lose.

Although I've managed to concede an own goal from far out near the throw in line. I also wish game was harder tactically and gave us more options.

Edited by TheShane
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On 21/04/2023 at 20:56, CJ_Randell said:

Is it just me, or is the AI incredible at putting their chances away whereas my players need 10/15 shots to manage a goal. 

My view - this may be controversial - I think this is expected + NOT a bug - at least in my saves (and when I help / test others’ tactics) - this is expected.

Your view - in your saves / matches, it may be true, it may be a bug / deliberate balancing by the game developers. But I haven’t seen any evidence of that myself.

Yes - I see the opposition score from unbelievable long shots, last minute headed corners, and long / through balls behind my defense. They score from just 2 or 3 shots, against my 10-20 shots. Yes I also see that … 

… BUT if I play a 41221 with Man Utd, with Casemiro as an Anchor / DM, plus De Gea in goal (as an example) - then I concede very few from long shots … why?

SO I have different explanations:

“They Score from EVERY Long Shots”.  

Reason #1: Are you watching only ‘goal replays’?

Spoiler
  • If yes, then that’s called ‘selection bias’ - you’re only watching the long shots that were scored (not the ones which were missed).
  • ⚠️ Experiment! ⚠️ at the end of your next few games, count how many long shots they scored against you + compare it with the ‘match stats’ screen of how many long shots they attempted. Do this for 5-10 matches and you’ll see it’s between 10%-50% (not near 100%).

Reason #2: Are you playing a purely defensive midfielder? Like a DMC or MC in an Anchor / DM role?

Spoiler
  • If yes, then you’re protecting yourself against long shots, as have someone defending the area in front of your DCs 👍
  • If no, then an opposition AMC or attacking MC will have time + space to shoot from dangerous central positions.
  • ⚠️ Experiment! ⚠️ play 5-10 games with your normal tactic, counting the number of opposition goal scored from long shots (from replays) + long shot attempts (from match stats). Then tweak your tactic to have a pure Anchor / DM and count the same. The comparison should be quite clear.

Reason #3: do you use an ‘all over’ press?

Spoiler
  • If yes, you are ASKING your midfielders to press, close down, and therefore lose their shape.
  • This will naturally leave more space for an opposition attacking midfielder / striker to receive the ball in front of your defense + have space to shoot from distance. Of course, having a pesky defensive midfielder helps prevent this 🙂 
  • ⚠️ Experiment! ⚠️ Try 5-10 games with your normal ‘all over’ press, then another 5-10 with a normal / ‘own half’ press. Compare the numbers 🙂 

Reason #4: do you tweak your tactic in the last 20-30 minutes of a match, to protect a narrow lead?

Spoiler

If ‘no’ (and you have a rather attacking tactic), then this will cause you problems.

The opposition will increase their mentality (eventually to overload!) as they try to score an equalizer. This means they will take more risks, with more men forward, abs attempt riskier long shots.

If you’re not adjusting to this, their chances of scoring a late equalizer are MUCH HIGHER!

Reason #5: do you rebuild your team with lots of new wonderkids

Spoiler
  • Usually (but not always) young players have lower mentals (decisions, positioning, teamwork) which means they’re more likely to give opposition attacking midfielders time + space.
  • I’m not 100% on this one. But it was true on (much) older versions of this game.

Thoughts?! 🙂 

Edited by DanEnglish
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@DanEnglishIn general, I think FMM developer make good job for the balancing between AI and human players. 

Like EPL this season, we have see some "UNREAL" matches in real life.

 

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I get this happens in football but seems to happen to me at least 4-5 times a season 😂 including a missed penalty and opposition goalkeeper getting a 9 rating as always happens to me

A007CB62-686C-4CBA-9C3F-0660C5F93037.thumb.png.1faf1f30d2eee0f8d675df34196653d9.png

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I think sometimes people forget that the game isn't a perfect reflection of reality, and in order to build in certain concepts from real football, the game has its own weird logic that manifests itself in its own bizarre results. As an example, there is a somewhat invisible effect of team familiarity/chemistry that really effects the way you perform. This has been the case with every single FM game ever made, and it is painfully predictable in the coding. 

Lets say you take over a team - you change the formation, sell 11 players, and buy 11 players - I dont care if you signed the World XI in League Two of the English Football League, you will underperform painfully for approximately 5 games, another 5 games you will warm up but be scrapping battling draws or narrow wins, then about 10 games in you will win 36 games in a row in lopsided thrashings. The game mechanics puts a tremendous amount of currency in stability over quality. I've tested this before with teams - you can win leagues with inferior sides just by never changing anything. Even resting players is bad for a team - its better to play with the same team at 70% condition, then rest players and play 100%. The game punishes you for the changes to your team dynamics. 

I say that, because the way it always "punishes" you is in the way described. If you have a quality team, but change formation, add new players, or add/remove anything that can interfere with the stability of the club, you will go through a series of games where you have 30 chances and not score, while the oppositions striker will turn into Ronaldo on steroids. 

 

 

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I am also convinced that the game always punishes any aspect of your team that isnt up to standard disproportionately to what it should, especially defensively/keepers. I once tested this theory out, and found in re-running the same season 4 times tweaking certain things, it was better to have a worse  quality defence on par with my keeper at the same rating, then have a world beating defence with a worse rated keeper..... its almost like the game wants to go for a weak point more than embrace strength, so if you have no obvious weakness, its weirdly positive

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23 minutes ago, DutchTony said:

Screenshot_2023-04-28-01-10-00-337_com_sega.soccer.eleven.thumb.jpg.1b9b67fb00902ffcce13b3bf732dae9a.jpg

🤯

Ouch. That would have been painful to watch. How did Villa score their goal - from a set piece?

Edit - PS. Seems they scored a very early goal, then went ‘very defensive’ to prevent conceding - that’s why you had so much possession and so many shots off target (18!) - right? 🤔 

Still - you were a little unlucky to only score once from 10 shots on target + 2 CCC (and 20 corners!!!)

Edited by DanEnglish
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10 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Ouch. That would have been painful to watch. How did Villa score their goal - from a set piece?

Edit - PS. Seems they scored a very early goal, then went ‘very defensive’ to prevent conceding - that’s why you had so much possession and so many shots off target (18!) - right? 🤔 

Still - you were a little unlucky to only score once from 10 shots on target + 2 CCC (and 20 corners!!!)

I don't remember how they scored to be honest but they played this horrific formation 😡

IMG_20230428_113633.thumb.jpg.b71fc1e8d3ffe2259b23945953eb468e.jpg

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This years game man 🤬E7F06C5F-B510-403C-AB84-F712989657A5.thumb.png.af3437d29c71796a2ab639bb31145e12.png

yeah it happens in football, but not 5/6/7 times a season. Lazy way of creating difficulty instead of actually making the game challenging with better AI transfers/squad building etc.


edit to add:

my team were clearly angry because they then did this the next game 😂D8BEF617-85D9-46B4-9205-78837BA359B3.thumb.png.7be1591f8b0fc55b8c0fdb70566e75f2.png

Edited by Resurgam
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I raised this on a previous thread. 

The AI need less shots to score and often score with their only shots. 

Like the above post says, yes it does happen, but not with the regularity in this game. 

Screenshot_20230428-123940.thumb.png.97a19c2139687af56a29e32d731414c4.png

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I am really wanting xG (expected goals) to come into the Mobile game. That SHOULD really help us understand whether:

  1. the human players many shots are mostly lower quality chances vs the oppositions’ fewer shots (but higher quality chances) … 
  2. … if the human player (who highly values potential) picks less effective strikers, than the Ai manager (who values current ability, not potential) …
  3. … or if the game is systematically bias to increase the difficulty.

I’m strongly betting on 1 + maybe 2 being true (not 3) - but of course we are all going by our own experiences, plus sample / positivity bias of other peoples experience.

Once we have xG in there - it should be MUCH easier to clear this up 👍 

Edited by DanEnglish
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10 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I’m strongly betting on 1 + maybe 2 being true (not 3)

What have you seen in the game that leads you to think it’s probably this? Not trying to argue one way or the other just wondering what you’ve noticed as you’re clearly really perceptive of what’s going on in matches etc. 

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7 hours ago, lcutini32 said:

What have you seen in the game that leads you to think it’s probably this? Not trying to argue one way or the other just wondering what you’ve noticed as you’re clearly really perceptive of what’s going on in matches etc. 

Quick clarification - just because I ‘think’ something, doesn't make it ‘true’. Instead, this is just ‘what I’ve observed’ (as you asked for) …
 

Evidence #1:
Testing Tactics

During (in-depth!) tactics testing with Man United <here> here are the goals scored + conceded statistics for the first four tactics tested, each played for a half-season (+20 games)…

Result = WE were more clinical than our opponents (goals vs shots on target)!

Spoiler

Goals Scored = scored 25-40% of our shots on-target (average 32%)

B5EECBAF-7951-437F-A914-B859A6A389E3.thumb.jpeg.e12150fcc6c74c344b07295d38ea1287.jpeg

  
Goals Conceded = conceded 20-25% of opposition shots on target.

06C12424-6C89-47BA-BB3D-898765F32542.thumb.jpeg.355bae9e11394286f6e4d2cf3e40c5fa.jpeg

 
Lesson / Assumption = in football analytics, it’s better to make judgements from many data points (e.g. one season)  than to judge from a selected small number of games (e.g. 5-6 games in one season)🔻I.e. to avoid selection bias.


More to come later …

Edited by DanEnglish
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Evidence #2
Extended Highlights 

When helping others + testing their tactics, there are a couple of common defensive problems when watching on extended highlights …

CF4CF09A-F007-445E-BFEA-78AB760E88E2.jpeg.93473c3ca022c926ec6ca41cd387eb6a.jpeg

Result = a very common problem is the lack of a defensive midfielder (DMC / MC in a Anchor, DM or BWM role) and/or have ‘all over’ press selected with no midfielders ahead of the defensive midfielder.

It means opposition chances can be very good quality opposition chances.  
 

Example A <here>.  
Original ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ 442

Spoiler

The original ‘welcome to Wrexham’ 442 tactic …

CF4CF09A-F007-445E-BFEA-78AB760E88E2.jpeg.93473c3ca022c926ec6ca41cd387eb6a.jpeg

86727EFF-AC7C-4E83-B0EC-2A411E2B10BD.thumb.jpeg.ca5c7121f108101a1d40d2aed440a1d1.jpeg

9F1F238D-2F9E-45D7-BB74-11F7979E64CB.gif.ce25819a9a0db43b90ce568314ee2c28.gif

There’s a 2nd example on the same link above under the ‘tactical observations’ spoiler … 
 

 
Example B (same link <here>).  
Same ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ 442, but with DMCs

Spoiler

Same ‘welcome to Wrexham’ 442, but with the MCs moved back to DMCs

9EDF16EA-ADDF-4E5E-8822-7129962FAD0C.thumb.jpeg.8f5723d2487a60dcbc89ef0d70567df0.jpeg

BEB2D861-C70A-41DB-A8E0-35CAC1750F6F.gif.aef536b072faeb25a901ba5d33136e07.gif

C89AF698-3D8A-40AA-9C8E-9239BE14C776.gif.1973a5fa7d7f6f5559b5f4d40df72f3d.gif

Paused the GIFs at key moments to easily see what’s going on 🙂
 

 
Example C <here>
This is a very defensively solid 5230 strikerless formation, but with 2 CMs and 3 AMCs!

Spoiler

Formation:

13BDD45F-D82C-4CE3-BEAE-056DEC8767A4.jpeg.f02830f6b6809cbd3e460f6bb2ab6e94.jpeg

My comments:

FCAC8A45-135B-4D6A-9F07-883DA2D49AEF.thumb.jpeg.ef78c0a0395a9942f76ce9af3810158b.jpeg

 

The two Gifs above!

F4364E6A-34D6-491C-9EEC-E9EC00EA81E4.gif.cf7b83a579c1fe1b2896f7872a773dbf.gif

D7264A70-F07F-4660-905A-E87476E23E66.gif.f07465ab03f15718a794f364eb959cee.gif


Lesson / assumption - lacking a defensive midfield means many opposition teams / tactics will have some very high quality chances against you.

Edited by DanEnglish
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Evidence #3
Plug + Play 

Many human players use a plug + play style … they make no tactical tweaks in-game, BUT the AI does!

On this forum, many people ask for help about conceding late goals - not realizing many are preventable.  

<note: this is less ‘evidence’, and more ‘a logical argument ’ which I believe>
 

Part A: the AI does tweak in-game
I assume we all accept that the AI rarely (never?) changes formation in-game, but the AI does change their ‘mentality’:

  • Example - a weaker opposition starts the game with a ‘defensive’ mentality against your stronger side - then if they’re losing 1-0, then in the 2nd half they ramp up towards ‘overload’ mentality to try to score a late equalizer
  • Example - the opposition scores an early goal, then stays in ‘contain’ or ‘defensive’ mentality for the rest of the game, trying to protect their lead / point(s). 

Do you accept that the AI does this? 🙂 
 

Part B: do YOU tweak in-game? 
How do you PREVENT the opposition scoring a late equalizer? 

The opposition may have low possession + no shots for the first 70-80 mins, but once they move towards a near-overload mentality, then they start dominating (overloading!) you + quickly score an equalizer! 

Do you make any tweaks to prevent this?

Spoiler

This was a forum conversation with my advice about tactical tweaks <here>

E8527B7D-39BC-426E-AF95-FE875477ADE9.thumb.jpeg.1fba2186922fe039dfc2a46252758e0c.jpeg

249BACB5-6C44-414C-A3CB-C67A04259B15.thumb.jpeg.649d9faf99c9bc6ff5aaea85eaff267b.jpeg 
 

   
So What?
Some do - but many FMM players don’t make tactical tweaks in-game to avoid conceding late goals …

… however the AI does tweak things.

If you’re not reacting to that, of course you’ll be more vulnerable.

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited by DanEnglish
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At the moment I no longer care about AI clinical or frustrating the game can be this year. Argyle got promoted yesterday 💚 I give it a week before I’m back posting screenshots and complaining again 😂

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Fair points Dan. I've got a really good tactic of my own, 99 percent of the time it's pretty damn good. I find AI pretty easy this year, maybe years of playing the game. Everyone is different but your views are quite valid 

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I’m just wondering when will they ever revamp the tactics section 😕 I don’t get why they add team talks but can’t have tactics similar to the full game.. at least add options like low crosses so u don’t have to have someone with good Ariel etc cause it’s all getting stale and same old for too long 

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18 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Evidence #3
Plug + Play 

Many human players use a plug + play style … they make no tactical tweaks in-game, BUT the AI does!

On this forum, many people ask for help about conceding late goals - not realizing many are preventable.  

<note: this is less ‘evidence’, and more ‘a logical argument ’ which I believe>
 

Part A: the AI does tweak in-game
I assume we all accept that the AI rarely (never?) changes formation in-game, but the AI does change their ‘mentality’:

  • Example - a weaker opposition starts the game with a ‘defensive’ mentality against your stronger side - then if they’re losing 1-0, then in the 2nd half they ramp up towards ‘overload’ mentality to try to score a late equalizer
  • Example - the opposition scores an early goal, then stays in ‘contain’ or ‘defensive’ mentality for the rest of the game, trying to protect their lead / point(s). 

Do you accept that the AI does this? 🙂 
 

Part B: do YOU tweak in-game? 
How do you PREVENT the opposition scoring a late equalizer? 

The opposition may have low possession + no shots for the first 70-80 mins, but once they move towards a near-overload mentality, then they start dominating (overloading!) you + quickly score an equalizer! 

Do you make any tweaks to prevent this?

  Reveal hidden contents

This was a forum conversation with my advice about tactical tweaks <here>

E8527B7D-39BC-426E-AF95-FE875477ADE9.thumb.jpeg.1fba2186922fe039dfc2a46252758e0c.jpeg

249BACB5-6C44-414C-A3CB-C67A04259B15.thumb.jpeg.649d9faf99c9bc6ff5aaea85eaff267b.jpeg 
 

   
So What?
Some do - but many FMM players don’t make tactical tweaks in-game to avoid conceding late goals …

… however the AI does tweak things.

If you’re not reacting to that, of course you’ll be more vulnerable.

Thoughts? 🙂 

This is very true, I do tweak but tend to be lazy with it, decided to start a new save and really make tweaks esp using ur suggested 41410, lost one game playing a weak side in a cup but so far it seems very helpful avoiding silly late goals etc

IMG_0782.png

IMG_0783.png

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Aaaaaaaaaaand I’m back to complaining 😂

First 2 games of a 30 year career and probably my last FMM23 save:

F064533A-19F7-43E4-B2CB-2B30C2125B8D.thumb.png.32ff0dcaeb23c3883d3641abee0f5fdf.png9D7C524A-41B9-4F18-A6F1-6E473BA29C3D.thumb.png.07ebf68459a31bef8bf3b027dde6b124.png

 

but normal service resumed after 

8FC12AD0-A974-42A0-95E7-572E580DEB46.thumb.png.ece54b0bbd884d61af23e12494dccb6a.png0658A5D2-3876-435E-84C0-882B8417EC43.thumb.png.d1beb82d2ec32952c9ef5dbb6a6be18d.png

Edited by Resurgam
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6 hours ago, Resurgam said:

First 2 games of a 30 year career and probably my last FMM23 save:

Ouch! That 2nd game (1-1 draw) feels particularly harsh / unfair on you.

By the way - your shots on target % is horribly low in those two games - between 20% to <30%, which is half of what it should be. Any idea why? 🙂 

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11 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Ouch! That 2nd game (1-1 draw) feels particularly harsh / unfair on you.

By the way - your shots on target % is horribly low in those two games - between 20% to <30%, which is half of what it should be. Any idea why? 🙂 

I turned off shoot on sight before because of this, hasn’t made much of a difference. Only thing I can think of is 2 new strikers. They’re now scoring hat tricks every other game for me. Enoch Asante is a non-league beast

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1 hour ago, DutchTony said:

Screenshot_2023-05-06-10-04-11-887_com_sega.soccer.eleven.thumb.jpg.35e0ee73def1298d4af0d59ff40bffae.jpg

Yes no ccc's but ffs 😡

Ouch. 16 shots on target as well 😵 

Bet you didn’t recall Lukaku - right?! Unfortunately - unless you bought a new top ST - all of Chelsea’s other STs have rather low shooting attributes 😞 average of only 14-15

28FE8740-A25E-49D3-BFCA-107798718E09.jpeg.abe69ae787960d7b5b24759d9a1b2b2a.jpeg

May be for completely other reasons - but am just sharing that Chelsea’s front line aren’t the best at finishing, unless you reinforce it / develop it. 

Still unlucky though 😞

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