Guides/Tips Player Roles - Guidance for ‘Intermediate’ Players

[Bahkareh.jnr]

Hi Dan, nice topic You've created here. I have a question on player roles I want to ask.

Here's how my team's setup currently 

                        AF                    IF

  IW                 SS.                    

                 BBM

                      DLP.              IWB

FB          BPD     BPD    

The purpose of this tactic is to make the goal scoring come from my AF and the SS which is working well for me.

But now I want my team to avrg. 59% possession rather than the 53 i do get. I'm thinking of having a AP/RP instead of the BBM in the LCM position what do you think?

But I feel having two or more playmakers might disrupt the gameplay🤔

And I've also thought of changing the DLP to a DM and the LCM to a AP/RP but I just feel my build up play will be affected. I've also tried the A role, it's a underated role but it's just too basic which is why I decided to try a DLP

Edited May 19, 2023 by Bahkareh.jnr

[DanEnglish]

1 hour ago, Bahkareh.jnr said:

But now I want my team to avrg. 59% possession rather than the 53 i do get. I'm thinking of having a AP/RP instead of the BBM in the LCM position what do you think?

But I feel having two or more playmakers might disrupt the gameplay🤔

And I've also thought of changing the DLP to a DM and the LCM to a AP/RP but I just feel my build up play will be affected. I've also tried the A role, it's a underated role but it's just too basic which is why I decided to try a DLP

To increase your possession % - I’m not sure which central roles you should go for - it depends what iou want then to do on/off the ball …

… but do have three related pieces of advice:

•  

Spoiler

• Wide APs - consider having one/two wide APs in the AML/R positions (instead of your IW/IF) - the APs drift centrally into space + help increase possession.
• Lower mentality - you didn’t mention what mentality you’re using (e.g. overload) - generally the lower mentalities (defend, counter) will play lower risk / lower reward passes,  which help increase possession.
• Pressing - to get a higher possession %, you also need to reduce your oppositions’ % - so a good high press is crucial to ensure the opposition don’t play hundreds of short passes between their defenders. Your SS should help with this, but am not sure about your other instructions.

Take a look at this year’s ‘Possession Cup’ badges of honour - it has screenshots + Gifs - may give you some ideas 🙂 

 

[Bahkareh.jnr]

22 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

To increase your possession % - I’m not sure which central roles you should go for - it depends what iou want then to do on/off the ball …

… but do have three related pieces of advice:

•  

  Hide contents

• Wide APs - consider having one/two wide APs in the AML/R positions (instead of your IW/IF) - the APs drift centrally into space + help increase possession.
• Lower mentality - you didn’t mention what mentality you’re using (e.g. overload) - generally the lower mentalities (defend, counter) will play lower risk / lower reward passes,  which help increase possession.
• Pressing - to get a higher possession %, you also need to reduce your oppositions’ % - so a good high press is crucial to ensure the opposition don’t play hundreds of short passes between their defenders. Your SS should help with this, but am not sure about your other instructions.

Take a look at this year’s ‘Possession Cup’ badges of honour - it has screenshots + Gifs - may give you some ideas 🙂 

 

Here's my tactical instructions;

Mentality - Attacking

Tempo- slow

Width- wide 

Creative freedom- Expressive

I keep a high line and I press all over, play offside trap and no time wasting 

Final third

 Look for overlaps, work into box and through balls.

Short passing and pass through all channels

Short GK passing

I'll look at that topic you suggested thank you👍🏿

P.S- I at times alternate the final third instructions I select LFO/WIB or WIB/TB or I select all three. I also alternate btw passing through center or mixed.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Bahkareh.jnr

[Bahkareh.jnr]

Here's my tactical instructions;

Mentality - Attacking

Tempo- slow

Width- wide 

Creative freedom- Expressive

I keep a high line and I press all over, play offside trap and no time wasting 

Final third

 Look for overlaps, work into box and through balls.

Short passing and pass through all channels

Short GK passing

P.S- I at times alternate the final third instructions I select LFO/WIB or WIB/TB or I select all three. I also alternate btw passing through center or mixed.

[DanEnglish]

This thread is still alive. I should start posting the remaining pieces in a week or less, after sone real life stuff is done 👍 

BWMs are next!

[Noam Cohen]

Such a great topic. Please continue:)

👑

[Meestercat]

18 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

This thread is still alive. I should start posting the remaining pieces in a week or less, after sone real life stuff is done 👍 

BWMs are next!

I will be very interested to see your comments about the BWM. It's a role I've generally avoided after it being such a nightmare in previous FM versions - employing a BWM was a recipe for disaster when your defensive structure was ruined by your holding midfielder tearing about like an over-stimulated Terrier, leaving gaps everywhere.

[lilgwanz]

Really nice read. I enjoyed it all especially the AP and DLP movements. Thanks 🙏 

[rseven]

Can not wait for the updates!

Please update ASAP.

[lilgwanz]

I had to come reread cause the knowledge here is much lol 

[Ricky204]

On 18/05/2023 at 08:46, DanEnglish said:

Player Roles 02:
RP vs B2B

When your team is attacking - do you know WHERE your midfielder will move towards / which area they’ll attack?

  
Myth?
The in-game image above is misleading. It suggests both roles move forward in a similar way. They don’t.
 

Reality - with no AMC
Instead, in an MLC / MRC position, the RP actually moves forward +  CENTRALLY - into the AMC area / position

 

Our Players
Using the editor - I have a whole team of players with 20s for mental and 14-15s for technical / physical attributes 

Here’s our B2B and RP for example:

  Reveal hidden contents

Both have the same attributes, are two-footed + are natural DM/M/AMCs …

1st Example (Playing a 442 / 424)

  Reveal hidden contents

A simple attacking 442 / 424

Look how: the B2B stays its width, the RP moves centrally, and so leaves an empty space (in red).

More examples:

 
Reality - with an AMC
But what happens if you’re playing with an AMC ahead of those two midfielders (e.g. 4231).

Does the RP still move centrally?! Spoiler: Yes.  
 

2nd Example (playing with a DMC + AMC)

  Reveal hidden contents

With a midfield diamond … you’d expect our RP to take the same space as our AMC …

Below you can see:

• the B2B moves forward + stays wide - into the AMLC position (same as experiment 1). 
   
• the RP moves forward + centrally - into the AMC position (same)

The RP + AMC are taking similar positions - so the AMC moves slightly further forward to find space.

Here the RP also moves into the AMC’s space - so the AMC (with perfect 20 mentals) drops deeper to find space.

 
So What?
Perhaps an RP is great if you want to score with through balls + long shots down the center ✅ as he moves into the central AMC position.

BUT if you want to score from wingers / WBs + crosses from wide positions, then the RP in a midfield two is NOT an ideal role ❌ as he is too central to feed your wide players - the RP leaves that red space ‘empty’.

Instead - if you want lots of crosses from wide, a B2B (or CM) role is often a better choice in a central midfield two.

 
Summary

In the central midfield positions (MLC / MRC):

• the B2B moves forward + stays wide - into the AMLC position
• the RP moves forward + CENTRALLY - into the AMC position
• this leaves an empty space (in red) - useful for an inverted wide player to move into, but often not useful to feed a wide winger.

As a result - often an RP takes the same central AMC positions as an AP / AM / DLF - so you need to be cautious about playing these roles in the same tactic (it can work, but sometimes won’t).

 
Next
Edit - how APs + DLPs actually move in possession!

Thoughts? 🙂 

Can AP+RP play together?Or it'll be lack of width?

 

[Amtrax]

@DanEnglishWhat midfielder roles should I use for formation with 2 wide AP and lone Poacher up front?  Currently using CM+BBM, and DLP behind.

[DanEnglish]

14 hours ago, Ricky204 said:

Can AP+RP play together?Or it'll be lack of width?

There are different variations - depending on how you set them up (I.e. the RP can be in the DMC or MC positions, while the AP can be in the MC or AMRLC positions).

Assuming both are central (e.g. MC or AMC positions) - then:

• normally they would try to move into the same central space behind the strikers …
• … often this would be bad they could be on top of each other 🔻and they’d be a lack of width as you said 🔻 (e.g. this is a problem if your trying to feed wide players for crosses)
• … … but maybe some tactics could get it to work ✅ or your players are smart enough to take different space ✅ (e.g. then you have two playmakers sitting rather centrally behind the strikers)

[DanEnglish]

25 minutes ago, Amtrax said:

@DanEnglishWhat midfielder roles should I use for formation with 2 wide AP and lone Poacher up front?  Currently using CM+BBM, and DLP behind.

This completely depends on what you’re trying to do (with your tactic) + the your teams strengths / weaknesses.

E.g. why are you using two wide APs? Is that needed. Why a poacher - what are you trying to do?

Feedback:

• Wide AP - will try to come inside a little to find space. If you play narrow width, you probably do NOT want a B2B on that flank / side, as they’ll try to move into the same space. Perhaps an AP or RP instead, as they’ll move centrally, so there’s more space for the wide AP

[Amtrax]

@DanEnglish I want to play like Mbappe, Neymar, Messi trio.  I think Neymar and Messi play more creative role than other winger roles.

[rseven]

On 19/06/2023 at 13:08, DanEnglish said:

This completely depends on what you’re trying to do (with your tactic) + the your teams strengths / weaknesses.

E.g. why are you using two wide APs? Is that needed. Why a poacher - what are you trying to do?

Feedback:

• Wide AP - will try to come inside a little to find space. If you play narrow width, you probably do NOT want a B2B on that flank / side, as they’ll try to move into the same space. Perhaps an AP or RP instead, as they’ll move centrally, so there’s more space for the wide AP

I was disappointed about wide AP role in game. Wide AP should move more centrally if there is space at AMC postiion. 

[DanEnglish]

Shall we try to finish this series? 🙂 

Especially as many of us may continue playing FMM23 next year (due to the Netflix paywall).

Am thinking of first writing up IWBs, then BWMs, but without as many pretty screenshots (as the screenshots take AGES!) - yeah? 🙂

[DanEnglish]

Player Roles 04:
Inverted WBs

IWB. This is a fun role. Many of us enjoy them a lot. But do you know how they work + what stops them working?!
 

Description 
The in-game description is pretty good - BUT it doesn’t tell you WHERE the IWBs drift in towards …  

You can use an Inverted Wing Back in either the:

1. DR/L: defensive line, or
2. DMR/L: defensive midfield line. 

Here we will look at both separately.  
 

IWBs (part 1)
on the Defensive Line (DR/L)

On attacking mentalities - in possession, these IWBs move inwards into the defensive midfield row … i.e. from a starting DL / DR to a DMLC / DMRC.

Here’s an in-game example … in possession you will notice these IWBs move next to a DMC (e.g. Anchor, DM, BWM).

Another example + Gifs

Spoiler

Here’s another tactic I tested with 2 IWBs

You can see the IWBs next to the DMC / Anchor …

The negative is that this leaves the flanks empty - but it’s great fit central passing moves …

 
 

 
HOWEVER - you need the right central midfield roles (MLC / MRC) in-front of the IWBs:

• ✅ midfielders who move out of the way, creating space for the IWB to move into (e.g. B2B, RP, AP, and also DLP if you have no DMC)
   
• 🔻 midfielders who are static when your team are in possession, as they block the IWB from moving in (e.g. CM, BWM, and a DLP if you have a DMC)

In the image above:

• the left IWB would move in beautifully ✅  (as the B2B moves forward / out of the way) …
   
• … but the right IWB will NOT move in 🔻 (or will take the same space as the MC (as the static CM stays in the way / blocks the space).  
   

IWBs (part 2)
on the Defensive Midfield Line (DMR/L)

On attacking mentalities - in possession, these advanced IWBs move inwards and much further forward into the ATTACKING midfield row … i.e. from a starting DML / DMR to a AMLC / AMRC.

Below is an in-game example … in possession you will notice these advanced IWBs move much further forward next to a AMC (e.g. AM, AP).

⚠️ This next bit I haven’t tested as much ⚠️
Again you also need the right central midfield roles (MLC / MRC) in-front of the advanced IWBs:

• ✅ defensive midfielders / DMCs who stay out of the way (DM, Anchor, BWM) - am not sure about RPs.
• ⁉️ central midfielders who move out of the way, creating space for the advanced IWB to move into (e.g. DLP, RP, AP)
• 🔻 central midfielders who are block the IWB from moving in (e.g. CM, BWM, and surprisingly a B2B - as the B2B moves into / occupies the same space that the advanced IWB wants.  
   

IWBs Summary
You have 2 options…
(on attacking mentalities, when in possession):

1. The deeper IWB (in white) moves next to a DMC - i.e. from a starting DL / DR to a DMLC / DMRC position.
2. The advanced IWB (in yellow) moves much further forward next to an AMC - i.e. from a starting DML / DMR to a AMLC / AMRC position.

The deeper IWB (in white) is great for build up play / passing out of defence …

… while the advanced IWB (in yellow) is great as an attacking playmaker / for through balls + long shots.

BUT you must ensure your central midfielders have roles which are not blocking the space for IWBs to move inside!

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited October 3, 2023 by DanEnglish

[P.Rahul]

So right iwb act like WB ??? 

[DanEnglish]

On 30/09/2023 at 13:39, P.Rahul said:

So right iwb act like WB ??? 

Yes - if the central midfielder is blocking the IWB (like in that image you’re referring to) … then the IWB will usually act like a WB / FB.

[DanEnglish]

Bonus Section!
Inverted WBs

So what’s the difference between a WB and a IWB? When is each one best?

ANSWER:
On my ‘testing tactics’ thread - I (fairly systematically) tested multiple tactics for a half-season each.

CROSSES
If your tactic wants crosses (e.g. to a high-aerial ST) - then unsurprisingly WBs provide many more crosses + dribbles (tactics #1 and #3 in blue).

PASSES
If your tactic wants more passes - then IWBs provide more overall team passes (tactics #2 and #4 in yellow) - probably as they’re passing more, instead of crossing.

WIDTH
Of course there are other difference - like whether you want more width / wide passing options (WB) or more central passing options (IWB). 

SUMMARY:
Hopefully these stats help clarify the differences between what each role brings to your tactic + team!

Thoughts? 🙂 

[Mamu]

@DanEnglish great stuff Dan!

BWM next?

[Blancos]

How ecstatic I will be if I can see '24 IF vs IW, TF vs DLP, AF vs P, etc in this thread too 😁. Maaan, those descriptions are not as helping as they should be.

[DanEnglish]

11 hours ago, Blancos said:

How ecstatic I will be if I can see '24 IF vs IW, TF vs DLP, AF vs P, etc in this thread too 😁. Maaan, those descriptions are not as helping as they should be.

I don’t have FMM24 (no Netflix), but the match engine seems VERY similar to FMM23 … so …

When your team are in possession - on control / attacking / overload mentalities:

Wide Attackers:

• IFs - stay high + wider without the ball, then try to cut inside (if there’s space) when they get the ball. If you play ‘narrow’ or without an AMC, then likely there’s less / no space for them to come inside.
• IWs - seems to move diagonally inside straight away, like you can see then move diagonally from the MR position towards the AMRC position.

Central Strikers:

• TM - stays relatively central, rarely make sideways nor vertical runs. On contain / defensive mentalities will drop a bit deeper to connect play (when team is in possession), and will drop deeper to mark an opposition DMC (when out of possession).
• DLF - drops deep + central (as long as there is space to). Rarely make sideways nor vertical runs (except to drop deep).
• AF - stays high up the pitch, makes lots of sideways runs including sometimes inbetween the opposition’s FBs and DC.
• Poacher - stays high up the pitch, does NOT make sideways runs, instead stats centrally often inbetween the opposition DCs. Is a suitable role for both high pace attackers, AND surprisingly for high-aerial STs who you just want to stay in the box to score headers from crosses

Haven’t really tested these roles on the more contain / defensive / counter mentalities though.

Does this help? 🙂 

[Blancos]

53 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

I don’t have FMM24 (no Netflix), but the match engine seems VERY similar to FMM23 … so …

I'm bringing up '24, only in case IF there are some changes to some roles in the newer one compared to the older one. If there's none, of course I'm ok with '23, even '21 😄.

1 hour ago, DanEnglish said:

• If you play ‘narrow’ or without an AMC, then likely there’s less / no space for them to come inside.

Wait... What? If I play with no AMC, my IFs won't have space for them to cut inside? Isn't it suppose to be the other way around (no AMC = more space)?

1 hour ago, DanEnglish said:

Central Strikers:

• TM - stays relatively central, rarely make sideways nor vertical runs. On contain / defensive mentalities will drop a bit deeper to connect play (when team is in possession), and will drop deeper to mark an opposition DMC (when out of possession).
• DLF - drops deep + central (as long as there is space to). Rarely make sideways nor vertical runs (except to drop deep).
• AF - stays high up the pitch, makes lots of sideways runs including sometimes inbetween the opposition’s FBs and DC.
• Poacher - stays high up the pitch, does NOT make sideways runs, instead stats centrally often inbetween the opposition DCs. Is a suitable role for both high pace attackers, AND surprisingly for high-aerial STs who you just want to stay in the box to score headers from crosses

Haven’t really tested these roles on the more contain / defensive / counter mentalities though.

Does this help? 🙂 

I've had some doubts here and there, but I'll save it at the moment. This is still a good starting point to test those roles further. I'll get back later. Thanks man 👍.

[DanEnglish]

8 hours ago, Blancos said:

Wait... What? If I play with no AMC, my IFs won't have space for them to cut inside? Isn't it suppose to be the other way around (no AMC = more space)?

9 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Right - so this depends …

Assuming the opposition plays with 1 DMC (like a 41221):

• If you have an AMC (like an AM / AP), then their DMC is busy marking your AMC … which means they’re less likely to move sideways across to cover your IF.
• If you don’t have an AMC, then the opposition DMC is available to move sideways to cover / double up on an IF cutting inside.

Note about MCs moving forward next to an AMC:

• Alongside an AMC, if your 2x MCs have roles where they also move forward (B2B / RP / AP), then the opposition MCs will drop back to mark your MCs.
• This makes the central areas very busy / less space for IFs to move into.

Just some thoughts, but it’s not an exact science 🙂 

[MikeF]

And now for the BWM msterclass  

[Blancos]

2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Right - so this depends …

Assuming the opposition plays with 1 DMC (like a 41221):

• If you have an AMC (like an AM / AP), then their DMC is busy marking your AMC … which means they’re less likely to move sideways across to cover your IF.
• If you don’t have an AMC, then the opposition DMC is available to move sideways to cover / double up on an IF cutting inside.

Ah I got it. So what you mean is not the space itself, but the availability of opponent's to close the space the IF got.

2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Note about MCs moving forward next to an AMC:

• Alongside an AMC, if your 2x MCs have roles where they also move forward (B2B / RP / AP), then the opposition MCs will drop back to mark your MCs.
• This makes the central areas very busy / less space for IFs to move into.

Just some thoughts, but it’s not an exact science 🙂 

I understood. It's not just about the position name in the formation, but the actual area where our players operate on the pitch. Gotcha 👍.

 

Any ideas about differences between roles in AMC slot? TQ vs SS vs AP vs AM, maybe? I don't understand why my TQ and SS really love to stand in center FC slot, while I thought what he supposed to do is start in AMC slot, and then runs (with or w/o ball) to the front line.

[Jahmeey Os]

Nice work @DanEnglish

how about the bwm?

[Nickoleo2453]

@DanEnglishplease more,Your stuff is amazing