Help How do I get my 8s to occupy advanced wide spaces?

[midis26]

Is there  a cm role in fmm in which the player tries to occupy wide areas acting as a winger like a mezzala? I basically want my 8s to do the reverse of an iwb drifting wider from their original position with a diagonal movement leaving space for full backs to occupy the centre, helping with ball progression through positional rotations. It's a part of a tactic I thought of, and the midfielder role is the only missing part. Any help on how to achieve this in the match engine would be appreciated 🙏.

[DanEnglish]

It’s easy to get the FBs into the #2 / #4 positions in that second image, they just need to be IWBs in the DMR / DML positions - then they’ll move to occupy the AMRC / AMLC positions.

The wide #8 role is harder though. You’d need it to be a wide role (AMR/L) not a central role (AMC) - perhaps an AP or Winger on wide width … ? But that’s not ideal / not really what you are after 🤔 

[midis26]

1 hour ago, DanEnglish said:

It’s easy to get the FBs into the #2 / #4 positions in that second image, they just need to be IWBs in the DMR / DML positions - then they’ll move to occupy the AMRC / AMLC positions.

The wide #8 role is harder though. You’d need it to be a wide role (AMR/L) not a central role (AMC) - perhaps an AP or Winger on wide width … ? But that’s not ideal / not really what you are after 🤔 

I tried to achieve something similar in a 3-2-2-3 with box to box mids as the original pivots, advanced playmakers as AMR/L's and wing backs with the intention of the advanced playmakers dropping as pivots the box to box mids advancing higher in the half spaces and the wing backs overlapping, creating that triangle, not exactly what I firstly intended, but it didn't really work anyway because the advanced playmakers didn't really drop as pivots they just played more narrowly but still high up the pitch. 

[midis26]

I don't think there's anyway for it to be achievable in game but here is the tactic summed up anyway. It would start in 5-3-2/3-5-2 whatever you wanna call it, using a libero as a central cb, in order for him to push forward as a 6. Some advantages of having a player push into space instead of one dropping into it like a dlp: You are the one going forward, with a player looking towards the opponent's half, meaning it is harder to be pressed, whereas with a dlp for example to get the player into that space he would need to move towards his half, with his back turned to the opponent, inviting pressure. Also starting with a back 3/5 means players are naturally wider meaning more spaces to be exploited in transition, either between players if the opponent matches the width, or in wider areas if opponent stays narrow.

You would have 8s that move into wide "winger" positions with inverted wing backs moving centrally as pivots, into the space previously occupied by the 8's. This means that instead of just having traditional wing backs that will need to occupy the entire flank, the distance will be split between two sets of players through these positional rotations.

The central 8 would be aggressive going forward occupying zone 14 acting as a 10, also creating a midfield diamond with the inverted wing backs and libero, creating a compact shape connecting the lines together, creating triangles and passing channels between players as distance between them is small.

The 2 strikers along with the 8s/wingers would make an ideally very fluid front four forcing a man to man marking scenario against back 4 defenses, therefore easily creating spaces through coordinated movements. (against a back 5, nothing would change as having a man less in the box means a man more in earlier phases of attack, easily overloading the opponent, and creating chances through that.)

Defensively the team takes up the original 5-3-2 shape ideally having one of the strikers on the shoulder of the last defender/halfway line, not allowing them to transfer all 3 lines into our half, overloading us, also pressing with the two strikers trying to force a bad pass or turnover, then transitioning to a fast fluid counter attack.

[Reshetnikov]

3 minutes ago, midis26 said:

I don't think there's anyway for it to be achievable in game but here is the tactic summed up anyway. It would start in 5-3-2/3-5-2 whatever you wanna call it, using a libero as a central cb, in order for him to push forward as a 6. Some advantages of having a player push into space instead of one dropping into it like a dlp: You are the one going forward, with a player looking towards the opponent's half, meaning it is harder to be pressed, whereas with a dlp for example to get the player into that space he would need to move towards his half, with his back turned to the opponent, inviting pressure. Also starting with a back 3/5 means players are naturally wider meaning more spaces to be exploited in transition, either between players if the opponent matches the width, or in wider areas if opponent stays narrow.

You would have 8s that move into wide "winger" positions with inverted wing backs moving centrally as pivots, into the space previously occupied by the 8's. This means that instead of just having traditional wing backs that will need to occupy the entire flank, the distance will be split between two sets of players through these positional rotations.

The central 8 would be aggressive going forward occupying zone 14 acting as a 10, also creating a midfield diamond with the inverted wing backs and libero, creating a compact shape connecting the lines together, creating triangles and passing channels between players as distance between them is small.

The 2 strikers along with the 8s/wingers would make an ideally very fluid front four forcing a man to man marking scenario against back 4 defenses, therefore easily creating spaces through coordinated movements. (against a back 5, nothing would change as having a man less in the box means a man more in earlier phases of attack, easily overloading the opponent, and creating chances through that.)

Defensively the team takes up the original 5-3-2 shape ideally having one of the strikers on the shoulder of the last defender/halfway line, not allowing them to transfer all 3 lines into our half, overloading us, also pressing with the two strikers trying to force a bad pass or turnover, then transitioning to a fast fluid counter attack.

Ohhh that's massive. I'd recommend these roles: BBMs for your 8s, but change two strikes to two IFs upfront. I've seen with balanced mentality that BBMs in this combination tends to occupy halfspaces or even go wider and cross from there.

Maybe RPs are also good option. CMs as I've seen stay narrow, APs stay central most of the time.

[DanEnglish]

Just now, Reshetnikov said:

Ohhh that's massive. I'd recommend these roles: BBMs for your 8s, but change two strikes to two IFs upfront. I've seen with balanced mentality that BBMs in this combination tends to occupy halfspaces or even go wider and cross from there.

Maybe RPs are also good option. CMs as I've seen stay narrow, APs stay central most of the time.

Haven’t read @midis26 long post (I’m looking forward to it, is super tactical, but I need to be more awake to actually understand it!) …

… however yes B2Bs will stay wide (in the half-spaces - particularly in a flat midfield three) BUT the RP will move centrally (it won’t stay wide)!

[Reshetnikov]

Just now, DanEnglish said:

B2Bs will stay wide (in the half-spaces - particularly in a flat midfield three)

that's exactly what I want to test very quickly RN) Make flat midfield of 3 - BBM, AP, BBM.

[DanEnglish]

1 minute ago, Reshetnikov said:

that's exactly what I want to test very quickly RN) Make flat midfield of 3 - BBM, AP, BBM.

Yeah in a flat midfield three - the B2B will stay wide in that half-space. It’s a great option for supplying passes to wingers if you’re going for a 1k, but that’s a bit off topic.

[Meestercat]

4 minutes ago, Reshetnikov said:

that's exactly what I want to test very quickly RN) Make flat midfield of 3 - BBM, AP, BBM.

It seems to work quite well for me - I'm using a 4132 and my midfield 3 are BBM - AP/RP - BBM, and the two BBMs seem to float in the gap in front of the opposing CB & FB when I'm attacking.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Meestercat

[Reshetnikov]

Very quick try in-game: Attack mentality, Balanced wide in attack, short passes, no instructions for final third. 

Instead of AFs I tried IFs in wide forward positions. 

Though it's not the actually wide areas (for wingers or WBs), it's mostly halfspaces with space to run-in. (CDs always will cover your IFs, opponents WBs aren't good at covering BBMs in these half spaces)

Edited June 9, 2023 by Reshetnikov

[midis26]

I tried to apply this in game and this is the best I came up with. No actual midfield role on any width or mentality can make 8s move into wider areas. Instead of 3 8s I used one central 8 and 2 wingers. Offensively things went as planned, with a front 4 and a midfield diamond. However due to not having actual midfielders the midfield was very open, so despite winning 4-1 in the game against Genoa, we didn't have much of the ball. Still, pressure and the offensive structure we created led to solid chance creation. Against bigger teams I doubt it would work as well as they will be able to take advantage of central spaces. If there were mezzalas in the game it would work a lot better, but still pretty interesting and very entertaining.