Chat How do you stop an opposing AMC without using a DMC?!

[Pista]

This is my question. I no longer want to use a DMC to counter the AMC because any player in a DMC position will 99% of the time get low ratings. Like mostly 6s with a couple of 7s sprinkled here and there, leading to an average rating well bellow 7, hence low morale, his value drops, he is considered to be out of form and so on. And I am so tired of this crap like you wouldn't believe. Year after year, game after game, it's the same issue.

Anyway, enough complaining. The first attempt to try and rectify this was to pull back the DMC and play with 3xCD. I figured that having no less than three CDs covering the central area and having to mark only two players, one forward and one AMC (most of the time) is surely good enough. Well, unfortunately the game engine doesn't work like that. Time and time again, whenever the opposing AMC receives the ball close to the box, my "central" CD decides to step forward and block his advance, leaving the forward completely unmarked (this is one of the stupidest things the game engine does all the time). And this is made even worse by seeing my other two CDs sit nicely to the left and right of the forward, leaving some meters of space between them. And no, those two "lateral" CDs are not covering the two opposing IFs or something, those are actually covered by my two FB/WBs. So the two "lateral" CDs defend absolutely nothing and the "central" CD has to somehow stop both the forward and the AMC. So, clearly, 3xCD vs 1 forward + 1x AMC doesn't work. Though it should, if you ask me... I don't know if this is a game engine issue of not, like with the DMC getting low ratings all the time.

 

Another method I tried was to play with two BTB midfielders. This also didn't work as neither of those two actually covers the AMC, they don't drop low enough (or centrally) and usually prefer to hover around the opposing CMs.

 

Something else I tried was to still use a DMC but with a "roaming playmaker" role. This was the only role in which that player could get decent ratings, mostly 7s, sometimes even an 8 (if he managed a couple of key passes), rarely a 6. Obviously the game engine considers him as playing better if he contributes more offensively. But the problem was that his defensive contribution was lacking and the opposing AMC was still mostly free to do his thing. 

 

So, what else can I try? Cause I am out of ideas and increasingly frustrated. If I use a DMC as an anchor or DM, with man marking, most of the time the opposing AMC finishes the game without a single key pass or shot on target, which means the DMC did his job perfectly, but the game engine doesn't recognize this as being a good performance, and if the DMC had no key passes he inevitably gets a 6. Which is bullshit.

[Ariza8]

Assuming you use 2 CD and 2 CM, Use 2 CD with man marking and one of the CM with BWM might do it. Just try.

[Uncleseekx]

I don't think you can, one of the reasons I hate facing Chelsea and Nottingham in the game. Though when I used a back 3 and 3 CM's it worked against it. One would assume a straight back 3 will work against it but t doesn't. 

[PrinceMadu]

Well if you want a back 3 

Try using sweeper role  for the center CD and then use a BWM or Anchor for your most central CM, they operate deeper and stay behind other players in the CM position thus acting as a cover 

 

In the pc version, they are supporting role (attack /defence) 

 

This helps me, might help you 

[PrinceMadu]

This is not about the topic 

This your formation 4231DM is one of the most useless formation in this edition based on my observation 

 

You don't score, yet YOU concede. Crazy! 

The 2 DM is basically useless, they contribute very little

 

I have only found success with this formation when I managed Nigeria and I won African Cup of Nations, then I tried using the same tactics for club football, gave me mixed results, win some lose some 

 

I am an 80% win, 7% draw and 3% lost manager, I don't take 3 Ls in a row likely 

 

The tactics was 

Gk, 2 CD, 2 FBs, 1Rp,1BWM, 1AP in the CM position, 2 W and 1 TF, shoot at sight and run at defence 

 

My wingers were prolific with Osimhen 

Ademola X Chukwueze, Iheanacho too was very solid 

 

Nigerian players are solid this edition 

[DoneHisCruciate]

It’s not the solution you’re looking for but I’ve been using a guy who can play as an Anchor but also as a Box to Box midfielder.
 

So I deploy him as a DMC against an AMC. But when there isn’t one I move him forward into a midfield 3. Then he tends not to get out of form as he can average a good rating across many games.

 

[DanEnglish]

@Pista - great question and I think you’re 100% right with your analysis.

Thankfully yes there is a solution. Basically if the opposition has an AMC or attacking midfielder, then you can use a BWM / Anchor in the MC position ✅ 

Spoiler

Here’s a quote (from myself 😂) from another thread …

Quote

Unless your team are completely dominant - almost every tactic will need a defensive midfielder* - just like real life …

* defensive midfielder here means a DMC, or a BWM / Anchor (in the MC position)

 
This is one of my preferred tactics:

The BWM is the critical one:

• In possession he acts like a CM
• out of possession he drops deeper and centrally, like a DMC, to be close to an opposition AMC 👍 

Note - you will need to change the BWM and other MC sometimes, to ensure the BWM isn’t overloaded trying to cover an opposition AMC + an opposition RP on that side as an DMC / MC

 
Personally I use the BWM in the MC position, but have been told that the Anchor should also work there ✅ 

Can also confirm 3 DCs, or using a B2B or RP in the MC position - does not work ❌

Edited June 26, 2023 by DanEnglish

[rseven]

6 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

  Quote

Unless your team are completely dominant - almost every tactic will need a defensive midfielder* - just like real life …

* defensive midfielder here means a DMC, or a BWM / Anchor (in the MC position)

I prefer Anchor role to make him stay at center. BWM will close down opponent players who dribbling and go wide. 

[till malkovich]

3-5-2 vs. 4-2-3-1 (CM vs. AM)

[Pista]

Thank you all for the answers!

 

Having given it some thought I'll revert to using 2xCD and put an additional CM in midfield with "anchor" role. He'll probably be the "central" CM in a line of three. I hope it goes well cause I am battling against relegation and need to find something that works for this particular problem. I'll update this discussion with my results. One question remains though, should I instruct him to man-mark or not?! Will have to test this as well. First I'll leave it with zonal marking.

[Pista]

So, a small update on this issue. It's only a small update because, as luck would have it, after making this tactical adjustment I only faced two teams that used an AMC in the remaining 10 games of the season! So a more thorough testing will have to wait until next season. That being said, the results look promising.

 

First game was away at Köln. As you can see in the SS, we completely dominated the game and, perhaps more importantly for the current discussion, the opposing AMC had a very bad day, while our "anchor" MC (Brescianini) played quite well. 

 

Second game, away at Augsburg. The kind of game you want to forget... Until they scored their first goal we completely outplayed them and should have been leading with way more than 2-0. But that's football for you... Again, the important thing was that their starting AMC (Kaczmarski) had a pretty poor game. He may have managed two key passes but overall was almost invisible. And this is probably why we completely shut them down the way we did. What changed after that was their substitute AMC, Zakharyan, who came on and played the game of his life in those 20-25 remaining minutes. And this was made even worse by our own DMC's (Waldron) pretty poor performance. He may have sent four shots and even scored a goal but once the opposition's AMC started playing well our DMC's poor defensive performance probably cost the three points. And unfortunately, his replacement (Brescianini) played even worse after coming in. If there is a lesson to be learned here it's that if the opposing AMC is having the game of his life it's best to just pull back that "anchor" MC in the DMC position to try and shut down the AMC a bit better. Lesson learned!

 

Overall, I think we are on the right track here. Worth mentioning is that I used zonal marking and also that both my "anchor" MCs aren't really all that great. I attached their profiles as well. The 21 year old Englishman has some potential left while Brescianini is simply mediocre for this level (and also not ideal for such a role).

 

And finally, a very important detail, one that unfortunately I forgot to take a SS of, it happened during the Köln game. There was a moment when the opposition was attacking (their only attacking move that the game actually showed), their AMC received the ball around 30 meters from our goal and started coming forward. My own "anchor" MC was marking him and as the AMC went on a solo run into the box the MC actually tracked him all the way back, into the box, where he finally blocked him. I think this is important because it shows that the "anchor" MC can drop back even all the way into the box, if needed, to block an AMC (or some other player that happens to be in that zone).

Edited June 30, 2023 by Pista
Wrong player name