Tactics Get off my lawn - An old-fashioned tactic by an old man

[neutralstate]

Hey everyone, I wanted to share this tactic that I have been working on for a while, and after abit of play testing am abit more confident about sharing it.

As an old school FM player who remembers the days of flat 4-4-2s being the default tactic, I never really got used to the surge of 4-3-3 high pressing tactics that are the norm these days. There's an old man inside me that gets pissed every time I see my IFs in the AM bank stop defending anything behind the halfway line.

So I decided to tinker with the tactics to come up with something that 1) had flat banks of 4, 2) was best used with a mid or low block, 3) had an interesting feature so that it would not be too boring. I also wanted it to work without having to sign too many players of a specific type - for example, almost all high pressing formations require quick centre backs, which are so hard to find.

Hence I came up with the below:

 

The basic idea 
- the 4-1-4 structure at the base is ready to absorb pressure, esp with WMs protecting the full backs from opponent WBs

- there is no scientific reason for making my entire defence man-mark, it just seemed to perform better in my preliminary tests. 
- a lone IF upfront with passes designed to focus his flank to create overloads down the flanks. I find doing this exposes the space that FBs, WBs or even IWBs leave behind when they move forward. It's useful to put the IF in the side where there is a WB; remember to focus passing down wherever your IF is!
- the Midfield trio is a straight, shameless copy of Blackhawk. Having no AM or Central Forwards in front of the midfield means that the BBMs and RPs have alot of space to flow into and score goals. Make sure your most creative B2B midfielder is on the SAME side as your IF! 

In a stronger team, I find its better do a midblock as the screenshots suggest. This was pretty good for ManU in my playthrough - take note this is default boring ass man u, with NO transfers made. I had to retrain the wingers to WMs though; almost everyone defaulted to IF. It takes awhile but once they get going it was really good. I also had to recall Sancho in January after a huge injury crisis, so take note of that. Managed to win the league with a couple games to spare; I've yet to finish this season but i mean this really is quite consistent and I enjoyed it, including some really good games including 4-1s victories over both City and Bayern.

If you play as a weaker team, I find that you have to do a low block (low defensive line and closing down). I tried this with a no-signing Bournemouth; got into the last European place! (Note to anyone who wants to try this: I do not recommend a play through as Bournemouth without signing anyone. This play through required close attention to player rotations and injuries as there are just so few IFs in the team, and you really have to get the substitutions and team talks just right. 

I hope you try and enjoy this tactic as something a little different. This is by no means an "ultimate" tactic - I encourage everyone to tinker so it's just right for your team and let me know what your improvements were! I also would like to remind all players not to discount the stamina / condition of the player, as well as team talks / morale. These play a HUGE (I personally think, too big) a role in the game results! They can be difference between a 2 nil loss and a 3 nil win - its pretty crazy.

I would like to thank a few people whose work inspired me very much.

@Spurs23 and @Dam0 with their Yellow Pigeon and BeastMorpher tactics, that were the first consistent tactics that really got me into the game. Everything else i tried didn't quite work for me.

@DanEnglish for basically being FMMVibe's resident Pep. His park the bus tactic really inspired me; you could argue this is just parking the bus with an outlet to exploit space left behind by the modern fullback.

@blackhawk for inventing his game breaking midfield combination. It works well even after what I think were some nerfs in the updates.

That's all I have, as always, your mileage may vary but i hope this is something fun and different worth trying for you!

[DeKing]

This is great work, I will try it 👏👏

[neutralstate]

On 04/06/2024 at 23:25, DeKing said:

This is great work, I will try it 👏👏

thanks! let me know how it goes!

[DanEnglish]

Have been meaning to comment on this ever since the same day it was originally posted ...

... I really like the concept behind this - it makes a LOT of sense and I can imagine it working really well in the match engine 🔥 it's very innovative and I'd have never have thought of it!

Thanks for sharing - great job

[neutralstate]

On 11/06/2024 at 23:12, DanEnglish said:

Have been meaning to comment on this ever since the same day it was originally posted ...

... I really like the concept behind this - it makes a LOT of sense and I can imagine it working really well in the match engine 🔥 it's very innovative and I'd have never have thought of it!

Thanks for sharing - great job

thank you @DanEnglish for your kind words! i greatly appreciate your long posts that go into details about the game, they really taught me the fundamentals. thanks for being such a great resource for newbies.

[jellis]

This tactic is rock solid and scores goals too! 

27 clean sheets and only 8 goals conceded all season. What I find works well is with 20 mins or so left of game, drop mentality to defensive to see out games if ahead. 

[neutralstate]

17 hours ago, jellis said:

This tactic is rock solid and scores goals too! 

27 clean sheets and only 8 goals conceded all season. What I find works well is with 20 mins or so left of game, drop mentality to defensive to see out games if ahead. 

Thank you for trying this out, am really glad it worked for you!

Yea the 414 midblock is really defensively solid and when the team moves forward, the formation sort of settles into a 2-2-5-1 which allows the team to stretch the pitch  and find gaps, so you dont lose out on goals. For sure it doesnt score as many goals as some of the more attacking formations but ultimately football is about scoring 1 more goal than your opponent and i think this has done the job for me so far. 

 

Edited June 15, 2024 by neutralstate

[jellis]

5 hours ago, neutralstate said:

Thank you for trying this out, am really glad it worked for you!

Yea the 414 midblock is really defensively solid and when the team moves forward, the formation sort of settles into a 2-2-5-1 which allows the team to stretch the pitch  and find gaps, so you dont lose out on goals. For sure it doesnt score as many goals as some of the more attacking formations but ultimately football is about scoring 1 more goal than your opponent and i think this has done the job for me so far. 

 

The wingers got a surprising amount of goals, they made the world best 11 squad which i dont normally get!

I think it gets a great balance of goals and clean sheets. What I like as well is against sides who play more defensive, you're still able to get the wins which is a sign of a great tactic, against better teams you get more chances as they play more open but the teams that shut up you can beat too.

Thank you for sharing this as I've been trying to work on a tactic which makes me solid at the back whilst winning games. 

[neutralstate]

1 hour ago, jellis said:

The wingers got a surprising amount of goals, they made the world best 11 squad which i dont normally get!

I think it gets a great balance of goals and clean sheets. What I like as well is against sides who play more defensive, you're still able to get the wins which is a sign of a great tactic, against better teams you get more chances as they play more open but the teams that shut up you can beat too.

Thank you for sharing this as I've been trying to work on a tactic which makes me solid at the back whilst winning games. 

glad this was helpful. enjoy!

[Madferit25]

This works!! On a journey man career, started of unknown, no badges! After getting sacked at my first club Bromley, I jumped around a few clubs using the pigeon formation! Southend, Dunfermline, Tranmere, Leicester (could be more in there) before going to Chelsea! Started using this formation and won the champions league and FA cup while losing league to Man City on last day of season. Next season did domestic treble and charity shield and lost in champions league semi finals. Best formation I've used in this edition 

[neutralstate]

11 hours ago, Madferit25 said:

This works!! On a journey man career, started of unknown, no badges! After getting sacked at my first club Bromley, I jumped around a few clubs using the pigeon formation! Southend, Dunfermline, Tranmere, Leicester (could be more in there) before going to Chelsea! Started using this formation and won the champions league and FA cup while losing league to Man City on last day of season. Next season did domestic treble and charity shield and lost in champions league semi finals. Best formation I've used in this edition 

i'm really happy this worked for you! it takes a while to get going because most teams only have IFs with only partial familiarity with the WM role and it takes time to retrain them but once that part is done the team will really start to get going and play better.

i just did a no-signings playthrough as Southport in the Vanarama League North using this formation. Somehow pipped the league leaders to the top spot on the final day after dropping as low as 8th at some point in time. Not bad for a club tipped for the bottom half of the table at the start of the season!

good luck, hope you win everything next season, it's definitely possible!

Edited June 22, 2024 by neutralstate

[nico89]

Hi. You say for a 2.5 star team will work? Wkth some loan for that position may can promote

 

edit: the last 5 games i tied 4 of them. you can suggest me something? thanks

Edited June 23, 2024 by nico89

[neutralstate]

5 hours ago, nico89 said:

Hi. You say for a 2.5 star team will work? Wkth some loan for that position may can promote

 

edit: the last 5 games i tied 4 of them. you can suggest me something? thanks

hey nico, i am not sure which 2.5* star team you are referring to and which league.

but if you are an underdog in a lower league (e.g. league two or vanarama), you have to make do with what you have and be flexible. 

1) if you are willing or able to sign players, invest in a good Bargain Hunter scout and make sure you focus him on out of contract or contract expiring players. At the start of the season, always review the recommended free signings and sign the decent ones up. 

2) for a lower league team (e.g. the Vanaramas), it's good to get a IF with decent Shooting, he will break the deadlock. Get a guy or two on loan, it does not have to be a full signing, try and get at least 15 shooting. 

3) if you can't get an IF, get a central forward but position him slightly to the left or right rather than centrally - play him with whatever variation of the forward position he is best at (TF, P or whatever).

4) watch for stamina. bad games tend to cluster up when you have a lot of games back to back with only 3/4 days of rest and less, because your players will start with <100% stamina and it has a HUGE effect on game performance, much more so than any formation or whatever. i actually recommend throwing (i.e. intentionally losing) the trophies (e.g. FA Cup, FA Trophy) when you are an underdog team. This gives your players more rest and allows you to focus on what's important - winning league games and promotion.

if i had to guess, you are in a part of the season (December esp for english teams) where there are just a ton of games back-to-back. rotate your players, try and start those who are fresh.

remember, being an underdog means you are likely to lose. a spate of draws might seem like a bad thing but the reality is you might have lost them otherwise. this formation is defensive in nature so it does tend to have more draws - get a decent forward on loan, try and see if you can get a breakthrough. 

hope this helps. 

[nico89]

1 hour ago, neutralstate said:

hey nico, i am not sure which 2.5* star team you are referring to and which league.

but if you are an underdog in a lower league (e.g. league two or vanarama), you have to make do with what you have and be flexible. 

1) if you are willing or able to sign players, invest in a good Bargain Hunter scout and make sure you focus him on out of contract or contract expiring players. At the start of the season, always review the recommended free signings and sign the decent ones up. 

2) for a lower league team (e.g. the Vanaramas), it's good to get a IF with decent Shooting, he will break the deadlock. Get a guy or two on loan, it does not have to be a full signing, try and get at least 15 shooting. 

3) if you can't get an IF, get a central forward but position him slightly to the left or right rather than centrally - play him with whatever variation of the forward position he is best at (TF, P or whatever).

4) watch for stamina. bad games tend to cluster up when you have a lot of games back to back with only 3/4 days of rest and less, because your players will start with <100% stamina and it has a HUGE effect on game performance, much more so than any formation or whatever. i actually recommend throwing (i.e. intentionally losing) the trophies (e.g. FA Cup, FA Trophy) when you are an underdog team. This gives your players more rest and allows you to focus on what's important - winning league games and promotion.

if i had to guess, you are in a part of the season (December esp for english teams) where there are just a ton of games back-to-back. rotate your players, try and start those who are fresh.

remember, being an underdog means you are likely to lose. a spate of draws might seem like a bad thing but the reality is you might have lost them otherwise. this formation is defensive in nature so it does tend to have more draws - get a decent forward on loan, try and see if you can get a breakthrough. 

hope this helps. 

Hi Neutralstate thanks a lot for taking the time to explain to detail everything.

My team is not so low, im in 2d div of Argentina. The team is Almagro. The players atributes are 8-14 tops on the team, place for 1 coach 1 scout, thanks for the help

[neutralstate]

7 hours ago, nico89 said:

Hi Neutralstate thanks a lot for taking the time to explain to detail everything.

My team is not so low, im in 2d div of Argentina. The team is Almagro. The players atributes are 8-14 tops on the team, place for 1 coach 1 scout, thanks for the help

thanks, I am busy with work atm but once i find a chance to i will explore this team and league and get back with the findings. 

[edit] Could i check, is this the first season for you? 

Edited June 23, 2024 by neutralstate

[till malkovich]

Tactics are reliable💪, only I have mirrored the scheme on the right wing suitable for my left-footed forwards Vlahovic/Milik (I play for Juve). At the end of the match I use "Park the Bus" from Dan English🙏 (4-6-0) to keep the score. The results are pleasing, I think that I will be able to fight for the Scudetto despite the -15 points taken away at the beginning of the season. Thanks for sharing!😘

[nico89]

On 23/06/2024 at 13:00, neutralstate said:

thanks, I am busy with work atm but once i find a chance to i will explore this team and league and get back with the findings. 

[edit] Could i check, is this the first season for you? 

Hi men It was definitely because of the stamina, here y post my first season with some loans and i promote to premier of arg, thanks for the help

[neutralstate]

13 hours ago, nico89 said:

Hi men It was definitely because of the stamina, here y post my first season with some loans and i promote to premier of arg, thanks for the help

Hey nico, glad i could be of help!

i did start a few games with Almagro today and I noticed a few things. I am not a fan of this club (I have not heard of them before this!) so i don't know the players well but I will just list down some observations and see if it can help you:

- The best centre backs are slow. The tactic doesn't require you to have the fastest centre backs but i have to say Giordano and Mattia, who appear to be the best defenders, do seem to get caught out quite often. That's a part of the team I would look to improve

- The WMs are not the best dribblers (i can't find any 15+ dribblers on the team!). Lopez, Obrador, Brizuela and Vedoya are the best wide midfielders available, but they are only average dribblers. If you can find some 15+ dribbling players who can play at WM I think it would help

-  Conechny is serviceable as an IF with 14 shooting, 14 dribbling and 13 pace, but I realized that Servetto (some guy in the reserves) also looks really good, but is somehow on loan? Maybe you can take a closer look at him.

- As a Plan B I've found replacing Conechny with Giacone, with his 15 Aerial and 14 Shooting, as a TF that sits slightly to the left, as a viable plan. Sometimes Conechny just doesn't fire and it's nice to throw someone on at 60+ minutes to try something different

- Champagne has the number 1 jersey, but i've found Gonzalez to be a better Goalkeeper.

- I like having a "Team B" that comes on at 60 minutes. This is especially helpful for the front 6 e.g. if i start with Brizuela and Obredor on the flanks, i sometimes throw on Lopez and Vedoya at 60 minutes to have some fresh players on the pitch

- I noticed that the Argentine league seems to favour 3 at the back formations, and 3-4-3 seems to crop out quite often. I'm still testing this but I've found that against 3-4-3, 2 centre backs are not enough to handle the 3 centre forwards. I've found some success in dropping my RP to CD (remember to turn on player marking) if i realize that the opponent is playing 3-4-3 at the start of the game. Jerez Silva, who can play at DM and DC, provides this perfectly. You lose a player going forward if you do this but against 3-4-3, the IF gets a lot of space to run at the defence and will more often than not be more than enough to score goals

- The team has a ton of players that don't see much game time to be honest. i think it could be worth selling a some of them to fund a few players who would make a difference - some faster centre backs, followed by WMs that can dribble would be a great start. You can't seem to buy anyone at the start of the game though - i suppose the transfer window opens later in the season.

hope this helps! all the best in the premier league!

Edited June 25, 2024 by neutralstate

[neutralstate]

15 hours ago, till malkovich said:

Tactics are reliable💪, only I have mirrored the scheme on the right wing suitable for my left-footed forwards Vlahovic/Milik (I play for Juve). At the end of the match I use "Park the Bus" from Dan English🙏 (4-6-0) to keep the score. The results are pleasing, I think that I will be able to fight for the Scudetto despite the -15 points taken away at the beginning of the season. Thanks for sharing!😘

Glad it's working! Winning the scudetto with -15 points would be an amazing achievement!

Yes, Parking the Bus is one of the inspirations for this tactic! Like i said in the original post, this is just parking the bus with an outlet lol. It's actually quite easy to transition to bus parking since the base formation is aready 4-1-4-1, if your IF can play at AM too you wouldn't even need a sub.

Mirroring the tactic is a great way to get the best out of the tactic! If you have a 2 sided IF, you can even analyse the opponent's tactics at the beginning and switch him to the flank where the more offensive fullback is (e.g. if the opponent plays a DFB on the right and WB on the left, then you should position your IF on the right). 

good luck!

[till malkovich]

7 hours ago, neutralstate said:

Glad it's working! Winning the scudetto with -15 points would be an amazing achievement!

Yes, Parking the Bus is one of the inspirations for this tactic! Like i said in the original post, this is just parking the bus with an outlet lol. It's actually quite easy to transition to bus parking since the base formation is aready 4-1-4-1, if your IF can play at AM too you wouldn't even need a sub.

Mirroring the tactic is a great way to get the best out of the tactic! If you have a 2 sided IF, you can even analyse the opponent's tactics at the beginning and switch him to the flank where the more offensive fullback is (e.g. if the opponent plays a DFB on the right and WB on the left, then you should position your IF on the right). 

good luck!

Thanks for the recommendations against a vulnerable opponent's flank with switching your only forward.
          One observation: IF should be a natural striker, it will be more effective than using an inside in his native role. For example, I had to retrain (Vlahović/Milik) on the right inside, because Chiesa on the left on the native position inside did not impress at all, I understand he lacks the qualities that a real striker has.
      Further midfield - RP (Pogba/Locatelli/Fagioli/Nicolussi) should have a tight long range shot, because the "Shoot on Sight" instruction is included, because the "Final Third" is empty, which allows him to shoot a lot from distance, IF in this respect as it seemed to me creates space for the midfield.
      And lastly - I use false fullbacks (IWB's) on the left to play right-footed defender (Danilo/De Sciglio).
and on the right the left-footed defenders (Cambiaso, Sandro).This allows them to pass more inside to the midfield or nearest DC, thus I was trying to minimize crosses, something WM's should be doing for it is their job to stretch the opposing defense / create width for the attack. I hope this will be a useful observation for someone. Sorry for my bad English.

Edited June 25, 2024 by till malkovich

[neutralstate]

16 hours ago, till malkovich said:

Thanks for the recommendations against a vulnerable opponent's flank with switching your only forward.
          One observation: IF should be a natural striker, it will be more effective than using an inside in his native role. For example, I had to retrain (Vlahović/Milik) on the right inside, because Chiesa on the left on the native position inside did not impress at all, I understand he lacks the qualities that a real striker has.
      Further midfield - RP (Pogba/Locatelli/Fagioli/Nicolussi) should have a tight long range shot, because the "Shoot on Sight" instruction is included, because the "Final Third" is empty, which allows him to shoot a lot from distance, IF in this respect as it seemed to me creates space for the midfield.
      And lastly - I use false fullbacks (IWB's) on the left to play right-footed defender (Danilo/De Sciglio).
and on the right the left-footed defenders (Cambiaso, Sandro).This allows them to pass more inside to the midfield or nearest DC, thus I was trying to minimize crosses, something WM's should be doing for it is their job to stretch the opposing defense / create width for the attack. I hope this will be a useful observation for someone. Sorry for my bad English.

your English is just fine, don't worry about it! Thanks for the tips, I will look out for these stats as I continue on my current playthrough as Southport  thank you!

[till malkovich]

20 minutes ago, neutralstate said:

your English is just fine, don't worry about it! Thanks for the tips, I will look out for these stats as I continue on my current playthrough as Southport  thank you!

Unfortunately we didn't manage to overtake Inter, but considering that we were -15 points behind second place in the league - the result is above my expectations, thanks again for that!

Edited June 26, 2024 by till malkovich

[neutralstate]

1 hour ago, till malkovich said:

Unfortunately we didn't manage to overtake Inter, but considering that we were -15 points behind second place in the league - the result is above my expectations, thanks again for that!

you will win it next season for sure! 

[Dam0]

Great work

I love the concept, i must say

[neutralstate]

11 hours ago, Dam0 said:

Great work

I love the concept, i must say

thank u! i appreciate your work greatly too, some of the settings here were from beast morpher because i found they worked well!

[DutchTony]

Won the league and fa cup - even though I had incorrect player roles selected for the first half of the season 😂

It does take a little while to experiment what to do in certain circumstances, like not creating enough chances, or needing a goal with 20-30 minutes left etc. I do like this tactic though. 

[Melv98]

Thought I would give this tactic a try with Newcastle. Got off to a flying start, but hit a form slump. In the end managed to turn it around and win the Premiership and Champions League in the first season. 👍🏻

[neutralstate]

On 27/12/2024 at 04:44, DutchTony said:

Won the league and fa cup - even though I had incorrect player roles selected for the first half of the season 😂

It does take a little while to experiment what to do in certain circumstances, like not creating enough chances, or needing a goal with 20-30 minutes left etc. I do like this tactic though. 

glad this turned out well for you! since posting this i've tested several variations that allow also seem to work ok and I thought i'd share them.

First possible variation is to play a Pressing Forward in place of a IF, but slightly to the left (or right, depending on whether your forward is right or left footed). this can be useful when you start with a team that has a good Striker, but you don't to have him go to waste.

Another variation is to play with 3 RPs in the middle instead of the black hawk midfield. I have found that it can help with build-up play. In the black hawk midfield, i have found that the RP can push very far up and that can affect the build sometimes with no one fo the centre backs to pass to. With 3 RPs, the midfield maintains the triangle shape better. 

Would be super interested to hear your variations as well!

 

[neutralstate]

On 30/12/2024 at 05:19, Melv98 said:

Thought I would give this tactic a try with Newcastle. Got off to a flying start, but hit a form slump. In the end managed to turn it around and win the Premiership and Champions League in the first season. 👍🏻

 

glad this worked well for you! yea the slumps can be pesky. Sometimes you get a bad game, or a get a team talk decision or two wrong, or sometimes just simply run out of players who are fit to play, and it can be very hard to break out of a "death spiral".

This is because fitness and morale are just as important as tactics. If your players are not fit (any player in yellow or red is basically a lost cause) or they don't have good morale, no matter how good your tactics are your team will still mess up.

Hope this helps!

[Melv98]

Fair to say that my second season was a success.  In some matches we dominate and control, but in others we sometimes struggle to break teams down and actually score. I haven’t quite figured out a way to rectify this yet, but you can’t question that this tactic wins competitions. Thanks again for sharing. 👍🏻