Chat Impact of editor and editing on the game

[ManagerFm]

Hello everyone. I used to play pc version up to 2012 when I stopped playing FM. Now I came back to play FMM 2024. So I picked Roma, used my ordinary tactics 4231 without some knowledge of new tactical stuff, especially not being familiar with mobile game engine. Ended 4th in first season. But had already a feeling it's somehow easy so did some editing on Juve and Milan to boost their finances, reputation and their players and make Italian league more competitive. I must say I didn't do any editing in my favour. My signings were Baldanzi, Vitik, Arnau Martinez and Gyokeres. Next season I won title with 98 points and 2nd Inter had 67 points after they won first season title with 87 points. I wondered what I did to league, I boosted them and they fell apart instead. And I had so many games winning with 1-0 like it's predetermined I have to win no matter what tactics I use. So I boosted all of them even more, brought Guardiola to Milan, Conte to Inter and Nagelsmann to Juve. Brought Mbappe and Hakimi to Milan for example, and some players like Kante, rerolling their years, making their attributes and reputation very big. Basically made dream teams of them, increasing attributes and ability of their all players. I also boosted Lazio, Napoli, Atalanta and Fiorentina. I was aware boosting other teams will make it harder for AI Juve, Inter and Milan to win, but I wanted to make it harder for myself. Like when I win title other teams to get stronger and invest, to make it more challenging. And I kept winning against boosted teams, it looked to me when I boost them, they forget to play, or I somehow always win 1-0 if they play better. Legue won easily, it seemed they can't challenge me. Rarely some of their players had a good game against me. I've seen Mbappe for example(boosted as well) constantly missing clear chances, scoring maybe once in 10 games against me. When I won Champions league in 3rd season, I boosted Barca, Real, City, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern and so on, giving them dream teams(making sure all of their players have best personality traits and so on). While I won Serie A 4 times in a row easily, in Champ league I was 4 times in final for that period winning 2 of them along the way(Lost finals against Barca and Bayern which had superhumans teams). I didn't have motivation for some of those to be honest. None of those boosted teams were challenging in knockout stages. Even if they outplay me, somehow I always seem to win by some predetermined scenario. Also I have to add I always cleared their injuries and tiredness before matches against me. They seemed to loose games before one with me to lower their morale "on purpose" and to get injuries of crucial players. Then I went to England, took over Tottenham and won league in first and reached Champions league final in 2nd season. Went to Championship and made Ipswich Premier league( which was super strong) champions in 3 seasons. Also won Champions league that same season. In many of those seasons runner up in the league would lost final game only for me to win the title, like it being prescribed. I have to say I didn't do any editing in my favour, during that period, neither I replayed any game. So I lost motivation a bit and here I am with a question. Does using editor influence on a game code or some processes in the game, making it easier? Like I only used editor to make opponents stronger and somehow it seems it had reversed effect.. I wanted to keep best coaches and players in the game, rerolling their years, but those players and coaches seemed to have little success against me after boosting and editing. I was reading discussions but failed to find similar one. I hope Marc Vaughan sees this post and give me some reply as I noted he is a developer(noted it by reading discussions). Does boosting players and teams have opposite effect affecting their hidden stats and making game easier? Like I boost players to world class beasts and they always(9 out of 10 games) underperform against me with shocking misses(strikers and midfielders) and defensive mistakes(defenders and midfielders) against me. Am I affecting game code somehow by editing opponents making game easier, even if I want to make it more challenging? Sorry about long post Just wanna get some clarification on that before new save, to know what to do. Either to boost opponents or to impose some rules to make it more challenging for me. I don't think I'm a "big" player but I'm addicted and dedicated to game and save once I start it

[DanEnglish]

I’ve used the editor quite a lot on FMM23 and previous versions + can confirm that it is not predetermined.

My best guess as to what’s happened is that you’ve used the editor to boost / change your opposition teams, but without understand what the opposition teans AI actually makes decisions based on (I.e. what would actually help them).

So you’re right that boosting morale / fitness should help, but if you’re simulating / holidaying matches (or for the matches which are opposition vs opposition) then the match results also seem to highly consider players’ actual current ability (CA) - so if you have a world class team, and they don’t, then yes you’ll keep winning.

Just some ideas 🙂

[ManagerFm]

16 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

I’ve used the editor quite a lot on FMM23 and previous versions + can confirm that it is not predetermined.

My best guess as to what’s happened is that you’ve used the editor to boost / change your opposition teams, but without understand what the opposition teans AI actually makes decisions based on (I.e. what would actually help them).

So you’re right that boosting morale / fitness should help, but if you’re simulating / holidaying matches (or for the matches which are opposition vs opposition) then the match results also seem to highly consider players’ actual current ability (CA) - so if you have a world class team, and they don’t, then yes you’ll keep winning.

Just some ideas 🙂

Dan, thank you for your reply. First I wanna say English is not my native language so I admit I get lost sometimes in these long sentences I'll try to make it more "clear" for reading. Second, since it's my first manager game since 2012 I might have expected it to be complex as PC version, and I kinda played it that way, not plug and play, but playing mobile with dedication like it's full version(investing so many time in processes before and between matches, and following everything what happens in the game, to big details). Sometimes, I turn game on, play for 9 hours, and play only 3 matches for that time..rest I spent analysing stuff in the save, mine and AI's(following their matches and results and so on). Yes, got addicted and invested in a save. I have so many thoughts on this topic, some stuff I didn't mention in first post, some I did, but not fully. I'll try to put them in some order, so it's easier to read. I apologise in advance for one more long post, I just want to share my experience properly, so that some conclusion can be drawn out of it.

 I will approach this with full honesty included (to which degree editor might have worked in my favour), in order for this to be constructive discussion, leading to something. I'm not that guy who will look for meta internet tactics and then come saying game is easy. Purpose of this is for me to realise how I should use editor properly to enhance opponents, to make it more challenging, in order I don't have feeling of guilt I made game easier instead.

I mentioned in previous post I don't consider myself "big" player. Maybe in terms of squad building and detail analysis yes, but not in terms of tactics. I don't see the point of people downloading or researching tactics. All I had was some knowledge from PC managers up to 2012. So when I started this mobile save I kinda grew tactically with that save. At first I used 4231 at Roma, sticking to FB instead of WB(which is now my favourite), even for players which are more suited for WB role. Or sticking to CM instead of AP. Pellegrini spent my whole Roma time on CM, and I wondered why his stats isn't better. I used 433 in Tottenham, and 41221 at Ipswich, where only there I "discovered" advantages of defensive midfielder(roaming playmaker on that position especially). Why I'm saying that is to tell I kinda learned along the way, I can't be considered big tactician. Even though I constantly change things during matches, responding on highlights I see. So changing things all the time got me to powerful stuff, rotating left and right inside forward during match, for example. I like those small stuff by the way, credits to you developers.

So, my success in Roma was not due to fact I was tactical mastermind, but more lucky guy(told you so many matches went my way even if I got outplayed). I used young players a lot(with great attributes), and even if they underperform I would get the result(I realised later somehow young players can't play constantly really well on high scene until age of 22, realistic feature if you ask me).

So I said I will be fully honest regarding everything. How editor could do in my favour: Maybe because I was "God" in that save, editing so many stuff, boosting so many players and learning their PA. When u boost so many players in so many leagues you get knowledge of their true ability and potential. I rerolled so many ages of players and boosted PA for so many of them trying to recreate "golden era" of football, with so many strong teams and with average teams having Di Natale like players. I imposed the rule of not bringing edited players in, or those which potential I know. But I edited so many of them that eventually some ended up in my teams(those that AI would release or ruin their carrier). But I didn't sign any above 4 stars PA. And with editing that much I was aware of CA of most of mine players, yes. But telling this with full responsibility, any final that I won, I was weaker team, sometimes by double, any league title I won I was not favourite for it. I created so many super teams with super players while keeping my teams realistic, did 0 editing in my favour. Why I started editing? 4 reasons:

-Saw PA of Baldanzi which I bought in in Roma so I had feeling of guilt and wanted to improve other teams.

-Italian league being so easy and money shortened for AI teams, without real competition in it.

-Winning Italian league with none of my players being in top 50 of Italian League, according to Scouting agency feature, and as explained I was not tactical mastermind nor any internet tactics was being used.

-AI teams unable to develop players, even those with high PA. As I was invested in a save I've seen so many 5 stars PA reaching only 4 stars and those with CA of 4.5 or 5 stars dropping to 4 or less stars. None player in AI teams with potential to reach world class couldn't reach It without me doing It manually.. or at least seemed so, no matter how good season they play. It seemed like game lowering AI on purpose. Those players with high CA at beginning of the save eventually all would drop in ability, more or less. Or AI coaches leaving world class players on sidelines in favour of less able players, only for those to request transfers. For example Arteta leaving Saliba and Gabriel out of first team in 2 saves (second was an attempt), in favour of White and some other guy. I didn't want to achieve success in those "unfair" circumstances. I did wonder whether I stopped AI player development by using editor and maybe braking code or processes in the game.

Dan, you said I maybe didn't understand how to improve AI teams. Well, I gave them players with great personalities and great attributes and gave them best coaches. I mostly did boosting of current squad roster of AI teams in order to leave their mutual chemistry on a same level it was(I'm still not sure whether AI teams develop pitch chemistry as user controlled teams). My only mistake was I rerolled most of players to 20 or 21 age, so they wasn't in prime or wasn't team leaders, if that affects AI teams. But I assure you, I made so strong teams that every one of them would be dream team of golden era. And every was stronger than mine. I had players with realistic attributes during whole save.

Few stuff made me suspect influence of editor:

-In Italy somehow none of teams I boosted doesn't seem to play according to their ability. None of those super teams could brake 80 points limit in league, at least not while I was there. One season I gave title to dream team Milan by adjusting their results. Reloading when they loose. First season when I boosted them 2nd Inter reached only 67 points.

When I left after 6 seasons in Italy, Roma team built by me couldn't go above 6th place in the league for the rest of save, that's how strong they were comparing to rest of league. I was not tactical mastermind as described, only game seemed to go in my favour.

-Manually put managers issue: None of them lead their team according to their ability or attributes. I brought Guardiola to Milan, and he constantly underachieved. And when I went to England to manage Tottenham, Milan won Scudetto and Champions league(which I somehow influenced by reloading his defeats) but Guardiolas job status was only "secure", no matter what he does. While those managers which game appointed to some team would receive according job status change and ability change. That happened to all managers whom I edited their current job or ages. It seemed I'm breaking invisible codes for those teams or managers. On the other hand, Xavi and Klopp had more success against me, cause they were appointed to Barca and Liverpool by game, and etc. Barca gave me one of biggest defeats and one of most exciting matches of the save, 4-2 in Ch league final. That defeat kept me going, I thought maybe I didn't ruin the save. That's what I wanted, exciting games that I would get outplayed and beaten. That's why I used editor, to make teams able to deliver and win against me.

-Manually boosted players issue: 

(Here I must say I watch every game on extended highlights, on normal realistic speed. I enjoy games and I'm addicted to it. So Dan, none simulation or holiday, not for a single match, neither friendly or competitive.) Somehow almost most of them seem to underperform in games against me. Mbappe, in his prime(boosted) because some of his attributes drop as game wants to, didn't have any special game against me. During save played like 15 matches against him and only once he scored I think. No outstanding performances, eventually highlight of him missing chance. Similar to Salah in Liverpool, in 20+ games against me he scored 2 tap ins I think, no good moves or highlights. If Mbappe and Salah can't perform, who can I wonder. I want to see them with all these 20 grades I gave them in crucial attributes, with their personality traits and their positional traits, I wanna see them perform against me. Then I'm playing against Inter in Champions league final with Ipswich and Nicolo Barella(world class boosted midfielder aged 31 in that moment, with amazing personality traits and shooting 16 and technique 17) gets 1on1 against my goalkeeper and misses by shooting ball 20 meters wide from goal on left side. Ofc I won that match, got outplayed but won. I saw so many oppositions big players fail highlights, attackers or defenders. And dozen of other players and situations, during that save, which made me feel like no edited "big" player can deliver for opposition. Yeah, I had some losses, like that from boosted Barca that I mentioned. But generally its 1 out of 10 games, I would say. Somehow always things going my way. And all of these boosted players would experience attribute drops, sooner or later, like game pushing them down no matter what. Mostly biggest performances against me came through unedited players, or at least I developed such feeling.

-I couldn't loose by more than one goal. For whole save after editing started(and it lasted 15 seasons) I lost 4-2 against Barca and lost 3-0 (what a relief that was)against Everton in England, and lost 4-1 against Liverpool in English community shield when it comes to losses by more than one goal. Somehow in those 15 seasons(editing started in 2nd season) things always seemed to go my way.

-Whenever I join league AI teams seem to drop performances: In Italy they couldn't breach 80 points limit, only Inter 87 in first season. While I wasn't there, in England boosted Liverpool had 102 points season against boosted Premier league sides. When I took over Tottenham, Liverpool couldn't recreate none, in fact no AI team went above 78 points for whole season while I was in charge of Tottenham and Ipswich. Boosted AI teams only delivered against me in national cups, seemed they play there according to their abilities. But in league or in Champions league, things mainly going my way. I mentioned those final matchdays in leagues. I won titles in last league rounds on 4 occasions. Everytime my rivals for title would loose on a final match day against significantly weaker opponents, just for me to claim title. I recall one with Tottenham for example. Liverpool 2 points in front of me on table, with better GD by +15. In order for me to win the title they have to loose and I have to win. I'm playing against Bournemouth, while Liverpool Vs Wolves. Liverpool down 0-1 on halftime. I "remove" my defence, put outfield player on goal instead of GK and Bournemouth still couldn't score. So I had really hard time making them beat me even on the purpose. Like it's being predestined I have to win that final game and win title. Liverpool lost in the end, and I somehow made Bournemouth beat me 2:1, with goals in 80+ minutes, despite me playing with loosing tactics and player positions from 20th minute.

So all of it left me with feeling I broke a game with editing.

I have to say I experienced 2 amazing seasons in England when I brought Ipswich from Championship to super strong boosted Premier league, finishing 8th and 6th in first two seasons, with super exciting games, giving me real feeling of fight and motivation. I couldn't reach 5th spot so qualifying for Champions league came by winning Europa league. But then I won next season Champions league with Ipswich, not because I was dominant in matches, but things went my way in knockout and final. And that Champions league consisted of super boosted Spanish, English, Italian and German teams.

Dan, to be honest, eventually I stopped boosting injuries, fitness and morale of opponents before every game. Out of 15 seasons played I did it for like 9 seasons. Later it became too unrealistic for me and felt like big obligation, especially when I came across some more challenging seasons.

So I lost motivation a bit, couldn't anymore decide what's "good" dose of editing stuff, players and teams. And got tired of trying to control everything in the save to ensure challenging games. I mean how to dedicate to my team if I have to boost all others and keep a track more who is injured and tired in AI teams more than of players in mine team. Also by boosting players and teams I felt I left no room for young players to come into those teams, affecting that aspect of game. And I wanted to see does game have some scenario of making super strong team or world class player by itself. My personal feeling after everything is that I made game easier, whether by causing some bugs with that editing or affecting game code and processes.

Dan, I think I know how to properly enhance AI teams, figured out crucial attributes for each position. And if I give them those attributes along with personality traits they already have I expect them to deliver against me. I don't see why it would work for my team and not in theirs. Only difference my players were not manually edited and boosted.

I wrote a novel here and I'm not sure I mentioned 50% of stuff I thought to. Can't get them all on my mind at once as it seems.

Please developers do not take any of those as critics. I'm just sharing my experience, and trying to understand impact of editor. I think you made amazing game, experienced some amazing matches and seasons. First with Roma, then with Ipswich. I like all the small stuff you implemented in tactics or players which are there for players to discover (like switching sides and positions of players during the match, or young players impact in matches). It's amazing game, maybe my mistake that I approached it and dedicated myself to it like it's full PC version. I didn't understand concept of plug and play obviously. But that's how I play manager, with addiction and dedication And by discovering level of depth in game and those small details I thought "I can make" full version out of it. That led me here, with editor issues. I apologise once more for long post. When I already started topic I thought now I should write it properly.

None of my writings are towards game being easy or its development. I'm here to figure out game settings for myself, not for anything else. My only motivation for this topic and post and my question is: Is it possible that by editing I caused malfunction in game processes or codes? Affecting players development in AI teams? Could have I created bugs which would somehow made game always or most of the time going my way, or affecting players and managers performances against me? Because as presented there are some "evidences" for it..

 

P.S. Be careful when thinking to reply on this, I might come with some other, similarly confusing novel and thoughts, in my bad English language, you have proof above it's not problem for me xd xd xd

 

Cheers everyone.. FM is best game ever!

[leedsunited87]

Sounds like the game is broken sadly, the AI for me this year has been horrendous. I have worked on my Tactic for a few months now and it completely blows the AI out of context. I even downloaded this this thing to try and help AI ( makes them put there best team out each game) there still rubbish lol still love the game, just needs some sort of realism 

Nice post buddy 

[rseven]

What kind of opponent will make trouble? To make only one strong opponent, not much. Right?

[DanEnglish]

Hmmm … this is interesting … so let’s pretend we are a scientist and run an experiment 😉 …

https://fmmvibe.com/forums/topic/50179-experiment-using-the-editor-to-improve-teams-competition/

 
… thoughts?

Edited April 26, 2025 by DanEnglish

[ManagerFm]

@leedsunited87  I don't think it's broken, I think I might caused it with all that editing, Idk..

@rseven Not sure what are you saying or asking. If it's to create one strong opponent per league? That might work, Idk but I preferred more competition and not favouring one team..

 

Edited April 26, 2025 by ManagerFm

[ManagerFm]

10 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Hmmm … this is interesting … so let’s pretend we are a scientist and run an experiment 😉 …

https://fmmvibe.com/forums/topic/50179-experiment-using-the-editor-to-improve-teams-competition/

 
… thoughts?

With all due respect:

-My words getting twisted a bit. I specifically said in my post I'm not claiming game is easy. I did not came here to be "that guy". Whole topic was inspired by my feeling I made it easier by editing and by braking code, processes and causing bugs.. Maybe my experience in that save and everything else wouldn't be as it was if I didn't edit.

-That experiment will not prove much in my opinion, not regarding mine topic. There is no human player in that experiment. There are no games of user against edited players and opposition. That experiment can't asses influence of editor on a human user gameplay. As seen in my posts above, topic is much more complex, regarding edited teams, edited players, edited coaches, regarding matches and generally manager path in the game.

-"Predetermination" in my save consisted of a small and numerous things(explained in a post) which can't be properly assessed with this experiment, at least not in my opinion. 

I advise everyone to carefully read my post, invested lots of time trying to explain. This experiment makes me feel misunderstood a bit..

[ManagerFm]

Need to do an update on this one, since experience changed, to be fair, both to developers and players.

After first save(it was my first save in FMM ever and first after game installation) which is described above and which lasted 16 seasons I started new one with Deportivo La Coruña (currently 6 seasons in). Experience changed massively even tho it didn't seem that way after first 3 seasons in this 2nd save.

-In first season won promotion to 2nd league easily

-Second season won promotion to 1st La Liga division

-Third season immediately after promotion finished 3rd. I thought it's gonna be like first save, it was same modus operandi by the game, things going my way.

After those first 3 seasons in 4th I witnessed all teams in liga playing according to their ability, like difficulty changed. So 6 seasons in I still didn't win single trophy. How much game became challenging can be described in fact that I got annoyed by failure so much that I gave my fitness coach to be head of training. In 4th season I witnessed Real Madrid putting up 101 points in La liga. In all these seasons I managed to win UCL qualification each time, quarter finals best succes. In 6th season(currently running) I am having incredibly close battle with Real, Atletico, Barca for title. 10 games before end, all 4 of us tied on 65 points.

In those last 3 seasons I experienced wins and losses, winning best teams but loosing to them also. Eliminating teams in cup and UCL but getting eliminated as well. Saw so many things going not my way, even playing middle table teams got challenging. I do not know what changed since first save but it's totally different experience, like game used 2 difficulty levels, for first (novice) and second save. I also do not know is it connected to me still having regional manager reputation, despite leading Deportivo pretty successfully, without winning any competition tho.

Keep in mind I still play against boosted teams, when I started save I boosted and rerolled ages of almost all best players close to retirement, transfering them to top 20 teams in game. Only difference is that those boosted players are now playing against me according to their ability, Modric, Ronaldo, Neymar, Kroos, Messi and bunch of others.

So, to draw a conclusion here. I am not sure what changed since first save but if you want challenging game, boost AI teams in beginning of your save and keep their best players from retirement (they have pretty good mental and hidden attributes). Let them do their transfers alone later in the game, they buy so many rotation and back up players, it's really good part of game. I am a bit frustrated by failure to win the league yet, and by UCL and Cup eliminations but this way brought me amazingly good experience, when it's actually challenging to win something. Experience changed as well against mid table and lower teams. I don't see anymore so many things going my way (like first save was "novice" difficulty for real). Yes, top 20 teams in game are boosted and filled with lots of 160 and 190+ CA first team and substitute players, but due to their inability to deal fitness and rotation issue it balances things in a very good way, keeping it user challenging. I am not sure what went wrong in my first save but this seems as totally different game in terms of difficulty with AI teams playing on pitch according to their ability. As I can for real feel the difference in the game between these 2 saves I would say it's either first save was "novice" difficulty or I caused it with editing in first save, I really don't know, but it's not same definitely.