Tactics The Surprise 4-1-2-3

[shosky]

I tested this tactics with Sheffield United and the results are amazing. Still surprised why it's that effective because it took apart almost all the big teams with ease. The little downside is it doesn't score too many goals.

 

Tested it with Nottingham Forest in the 'Saviour Cometh' challenge and the results are almost the same. 

Edited August 27, 2025 by shosky
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[ManagerFm]

It adds to my point that pretty much every tactics work, if you twist stuff during match and react.

I was using that tactics for couple of seasons, although with other instructions and roles. If I may advise, set your mentality on counter and you will get even better results, both against smaller and bigger teams.

In that set up I was using one CD and one sweeper, and sometimes instead of roaming playmaker anchor or BWM, also defensive line always on balanced. But seeing your instructions makes me even more convinced that every tactics work.

Of course you can't go with some fictional tactics, but any base tactics like this you posted, 4231, 433 and pretty much all of rest will work, when you react during matches game tends to push stuff in user direction. Especially because AI teams lack in quality. So I ended up editing and boosting manually teams to have some competition.

You will not find many supporters of my point, because many here tend to think they only win because of tactics, but it's a fact that game is somehow going into user favour, especially with AI being unable to develop players and to adapt tactically. If you want challenging save I recommend mine editing path

Good results, you already completed the game xd

Cheers!

[MegaBoi]

4 hours ago, shosky said:

I tested this tactics with Sheffield United and the results are amazing. Still surprised why it's that effective because it took apart almost all the big teams with ease. The little downside is it doesn't score too many goals.

 

Tested it with Nottingham Forest in the 'Saviour Cometh' challenge and the results are almost the same. 

A tactic using Black hawk Midfield, Nice results and Tactics.

[MegaBoi]

2 hours ago, ManagerFm said:

It adds to my point that pretty much every tactics work, if you twist stuff during match and react.

I was using that tactics for couple of seasons, although with other instructions and roles. If I may advise, set your mentality on counter and you will get even better results, both against smaller and bigger teams.

In that set up I was using one CD and one sweeper, and sometimes instead of roaming playmaker anchor or BWM, also defensive line always on balanced. But seeing your instructions makes me even more convinced that every tactics work.

Of course you can't go with some fictional tactics, but any base tactics like this you posted, 4231, 433 and pretty much all of rest will work, when you react during matches game tends to push stuff in user direction. Especially because AI teams lack in quality. So I ended up editing and boosting manually teams to have some competition.

You will not find many supporters of my point, because many here tend to think they only win because of tactics, but it's a fact that game is somehow going into user favour, especially with AI being unable to develop players and to adapt tactically. If you want challenging save I recommend mine editing path

Good results, you already completed the game xd

Cheers!

You're a little bit wrong in one point.

Every Tactics just don't work. If you have a World class team Like City or Madrid or a Wonderkid Squad that becomes world class then Every tactic will Work. But with low quality players, you will need a Tactic.

And the AI isn't that rubbish, team Like City and PSG or Madrid and Barca spents money on World class players and gives tough competition in Europe. Yeah I agree on one point that they don't develop their own players that Efficiently.

[ManagerFm]

20 hours ago, MegaBoi said:

You're a little bit wrong in one point.

Every Tactics just don't work. If you have a World class team Like City or Madrid or a Wonderkid Squad that becomes world class then Every tactic will Work. But with low quality players, you will need a Tactic.

And the AI isn't that rubbish, team Like City and PSG or Madrid and Barca spents money on World class players and gives tough competition in Europe. Yeah I agree on one point that they don't develop their own players that Efficiently.

Well, above you have proof that any ordinary tactics will work. That Sheffield side is not full of World class players, yet he sits in a second place with a good chance of grabbing title in strongest league there is. It's not Villa, not Newcastle but Sheffield. He was using two BPD and any combination will actually work.

Fact that you have name "Black Hawk" for this tactics doesn't make it any special. It is most ordinary tactics you will go if you're playing with underdog squad. None "a Tactics" you said is needed. If you watch matches in extended highlights and twist mentality, roles and sides of IF and BtB during a game it is one way street. Do that with any other common real life tactics and outcome is the same. So, yeah, any tactics will work.

As for AI and recruitment it is for nothing that richest clubs buy players. Simply because they are buying players with rubbish grades for teamwork, aggression, aerial and rest. They simply do not develop any crucial attributes, only players that get upgrades in those are users. Like they buy a lot of lazy players and they go for whole career like that. If they buy by any chance some player with good personality usually his rest attributes are not on a world class level, and decrease in quality is massive after just few seasons. Game will never create not even 30% strong squad like Madrid, City and rest are in the beginning, not to mention to develop player like KDB or any on that level. Add on that that only user teams get to develop on pitch relationships and chemistry and it's very clear.

Go check only coaches in any top clubs after few years in any save, they are usually old, past any ability and mostly silver and normal aptitude. Even they need editing to keep challenge and balance.

Going through Vibe I came across few realistic posts and observations from players like Pinuccio and rest, but it seems they are pushed aside as community is more 5k challenges orientated than game improvement. I have nothing against it, it is just an evidence to me that game will not make significant improvement any time soon.

[MegaBoi]

29 minutes ago, ManagerFm said:

Well, above you have proof that any ordinary tactics will work. That Sheffield side is not full of World class players, yet he sits in a second place with a good chance of grabbing title in strongest league there is. It's not Villa, not Newcastle but Sheffield. He was using two BPD and any combination will actually work.

Fact that you have name "Black Hawk" for this tactics doesn't make it any special. It is most ordinary tactics you will go if you're playing with underdog squad. None "a Tactics" you said is needed. If you watch matches in extended highlights and twist mentality, roles and sides of IF and BtB during a game it is one way street. Do that with any other common real life tactics and outcome is the same. So, yeah, any tactics will work.

As for AI and recruitment it is for nothing that richest clubs buy players. Simply because they are buying players with rubbish grades for teamwork, aggression, aerial and rest. They simply do not develop any crucial attributes, only players that get upgrades in those are users. Like they buy a lot of lazy players and they go for whole career like that. If they buy by any chance some player with good personality usually his rest attributes are not on a world class level, and decrease in quality is massive after just few seasons. Game will never create not even 30% strong squad like Madrid, City and rest are in the beginning, not to mention to develop player like KDB or any on that level. Add on that that only user teams get to develop on pitch relationships and chemistry and it's very clear.

Go check only coaches in any top clubs after few years in any save, they are usually old, past any ability and mostly silver and normal aptitude. Even they need editing to keep challenge and balance.

Going through Vibe I came across few realistic posts and observations from players like Pinuccio and rest, but it seems they are pushed aside as community is more 5k challenges orientated than game improvement. I have nothing against it, it is just an evidence to me that game will not make significant improvement any time soon.

Then let's take that Sheffield United side and play with a More Attacking Tactic, Without using that "Black Hawk" Midfield and present the results, every Tactics just don't work in this game. Here he is using a Suitable tactics for his Players that is giving good output.

And what is users going to do on Vibe to Improve the game? We have Si forums for that go can Check them out, there are loads of Thread related to Game improvements, we can only hope that Sega will work on those.

And the main point is This game is pretty broken so player are doing different challenges for fun.

I am out of here now.......

[ManagerFm]

9 hours ago, MegaBoi said:

Then let's take that Sheffield United side and play with a More Attacking Tactic, Without using that "Black Hawk" Midfield and present the results, every Tactics just don't work in this game. Here he is using a Suitable tactics for his Players that is giving good output.

And what is users going to do on Vibe to Improve the game? We have Si forums for that go can Check them out, there are loads of Thread related to Game improvements, we can only hope that Sega will work on those.

And the main point is This game is pretty broken so player are doing different challenges for fun.

I am out of here now.......

No need to try, did it with Deportivo la Coruña, coming from third and second division. Alongside this, 4231, 433 with 3 CF, 442, 41212 diamond will all work for Sheffield, where some of those are really attacking, you just need to do few rotations during the match as described above.

Regarding your question what users can do for game to improve: I guarantee not every year edition would be stuck with same problems and issues if this much time, energy, posts were invested in SI forum. An individual can't do a lot, but a community can. I've been through SI forum in details for last couple of months and didn't really see community pushing improvements. Came across few posts of some people asking for improvements but community didn't support them. Thus I disagree with your claim this community turned on challenges because they couldn't push for improvements. Once again, I really have nothing against challenges (I am even following few of them), I am just fascinated that whole community of experienced players went for it, instead of pushing and rooting for game upgrades.

I wouldn't say game is broken as you say, it is very addictive with marvelous stuff in it. On pitch players performance, players gaining and loosing form are just some of superb aspects. Whole concept and stuff implemented in it is amazing. Would just like it to get increase in difficulty, not to have to edit teams, players and coaches manually for maintaining any competition. Enabling AI to develop world class players would be enough and easy achievable. Enabling AI teams to twist tactics during matches ( what they already do when they get red card in the game), enabling AI to develop chemistry are just some of stuff that wouldn't make this game so much user preferred.

 

Don't get me wrong, but you tend to write "I am out" for any thread I've been into, just to come later with some panicking stuff like "call moderators" for a simple discussion. No need for such stuff, it's a forum and it's a discussion. As long as there is mutual respect.

[oskarsson81]

Yeah, every tactics work, but some tactics work better than other. So, this Is the aim, finding these combinations.

For the rest, I total agree with ManagerFM