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Off Topic English football


Davis
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20 minutes ago, Ashez said:

First half had me worried it would be "one of those days" as Alisson kept us in it (leading Golden Glove playing 8 games less btw) but we were ace second half. 

Now you lot best do your part 😂

Can’t be many better keepers than him in the world surely. If there is then I don’t care anyway.

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22 hours ago, Ashez said:

First half had me worried it would be "one of those days" as Alisson kept us in it (leading Golden Glove playing 8 games less btw) but we were ace second half. 

Now you lot best do your part 😂

 

😂 at Liverpool fans still taking things seriously. The league was over 2 months ago and everyone knew/knows it bar reds fans. 

I guess no chickens are counted given the monumental implosions of the recent past but still, relax and enjoy it. 

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1 hour ago, samhardy said:

VAR has turned football into an absolute circus 😂

That passage of play was so bad it was funny.

VAR *can* be very useful but as is it's as rough as fk. 

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5 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

VAR *can* be very useful but as is it's as rough as fk. 

It’s the fans who are actually in the ground that I feel sorry for, no-one has a clue what’s going on or whether they can celebrate or not. The best part of football is the instantaneous reactions and moments you experience whilst at the match and now that’s been taken away there’s nothing left.

There are perks to being marooned in League 1 going nowhere anytime soon after all :P

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22 minutes ago, samhardy said:

There are perks to being marooned in League 1 going nowhere anytime soon after all

Getting to have a pint in the Hollywood Bowl in a couple of weeks must be the biggest perk of League 1 I would have thought.

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3 hours ago, billy2shots said:

 

😂 at Liverpool fans still taking things seriously. The league was over 2 months ago and everyone knew/knows it bar reds fans. 

I guess no chickens are counted given the monumental implosions of the recent past but still, relax and enjoy it. 

The United and Spurs matches were the vital ones, and two months ago we didn't know City would continue to shit the bed. We blew what 8-12 points last year? I don't even remember but 22? Oh my!

2 hours ago, samhardy said:

VAR has turned football into an absolute circus 😂

That passage of play was so bad it was funny.

It done it's job, they just played on way too long. 

52 minutes ago, samhardy said:

It’s the fans who are actually in the ground that I feel sorry for, no-one has a clue what’s going on or whether they can celebrate or not. The best part of football is the instantaneous reactions and moments you experience whilst at the match and now that’s been taken away there’s nothing left.

There are perks to being marooned in League 1 going nowhere anytime soon after all :P

It improved the atmosphere here 😛

50 minutes ago, Rob said:

@Ashez @Ian you’re welcome lads.

You lot did alright 😂

40 minutes ago, Ian said:

Thank you very much. Not much better than relegation form required now.

6 wins now needed 😮

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10 minutes ago, Ashez said:

The United and Spurs matches were the vital ones, and two months ago we didn't know City would continue to shit the bed. We blew what 8-12 points last year? I don't even remember but 22? Oh my!

 

 

In my opinion Liverpool are lucky that they are having a great league season and it’s glossed over last seasons bottle job. That should be remembered as on a par with Newcastle from yesterday year. 

I’m not sure comparing a lead that is extending to a capitulation is right, it’s like comparing apples with oranges. There comes a point where the other teams know it’s over and concentrate on other things. Probably why city aren’t sending the u23s to play cup games and getting sand in their vagina about playing 3 extra games. Winning 3 major cups last year proves it can be done without the crying. 

Taking nothing away from Pool who have had an outstanding season. The test begins now on whether they will become an outstanding team. 

Get ready to Join Leicester and Blackburn in winning your first EPL 

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9 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

 

In my opinion Liverpool are lucky that they are having a great league season and it’s glossed over last seasons bottle job. That should be remembered as on a par with Newcastle from yesterday year. 

I’m not sure comparing a lead that is extending to a capitulation is right, it’s like comparing apples with oranges. There comes a point where the other teams know it’s over and concentrate on other things. Probably why city aren’t sending the u23s to play cup games and getting sand in their vagina about playing 3 extra games. Winning 3 major cups last year proves it can be done without the crying. 

Taking nothing away from Pool who have had an outstanding season. The test begins now on whether they will become an outstanding team. 

Get ready to Join Leicester and Blackburn in winning your first EPL 

You sound a bit bitter to me.

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5 minutes ago, Ian said:

You sound a bit bitter to me.

 

Disappointed maybe, realistic definitely but not bitter. 

It was going to happen eventually and in 27 years of the Premier League it is this season. Nothing lucky about it either as Liverpool have fully deserved it which is always a nice way to win it. 

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14 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

my opinion Liverpool are lucky that they are having a great league season and it’s glossed over last seasons bottle job. That should be remembered as on a par with Newcastle from yesterday year. 

Isn't City's collapse a bigger story?? Two 100 odd point seasons and now they're holding onto second. 

16 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

Winning 3 major cups last year proves it can be done without the crying. 

City's squad is better than ours and much deeper. We get an injury to a WB, a CB or an attacker and we're fielding fringe players, it happens to City and they have the choice of multiple £50m signings. Fortunately for us it may be expensive but it's poorly put together. 

Anyway Klopp is kicking off because the match is in a period where we were told we weren't allowed to play. 

I've said how potentially dying on that hill pisses me off but you'd hope we'll go all out in Europe now. The league is essentially over and we've been. Forced to "throw" both league cups by poor planning by the organisers. 

21 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

The test begins now on whether they will become an outstanding team. 

That I agree with. We've basically been elite for 2 seasons in the league, 3 European finals, two of the best league campaigns the league has seen and we'll have to go again next season. 

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The Premier League has been notoriously difficult to retain in recent years, to do it three straight years would have been a bigger surprise than what is happening now imo. 

Liverpool may go on to dominate now but I would be quite comfortable betting against 3 in a row.

I feel uneasy whenever the spending argument comes into play. Yes City have spent big in recent times but Liverpool went from be close contenders to breaking the world record for a defender and a goalkeeper so that’s a bit of a straw man argument. It must be pointed out that the cash both spend is money in the bank. Utd being able to spend £hundreds of millions whilst being in the red can’t be right regardless of whether they can service the debt or not. Look what throwing cash around does on it’s on without good management. For that reason I will defend Liverpool and City’s spending.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

The Premier League has been notoriously difficult to retain in recent years, to do it three straight years would have been a bigger surprise than what is happening now imo. 

Liverpool may go on to dominate now but I would be quite comfortable betting against 3 in a row.

I feel uneasy whenever the spending argument comes into play. Yes City have spent big in recent times but Liverpool went from be close contenders to breaking the world record for a defender and a goalkeeper so that’s a bit of a straw man argument. It must be pointed out that the cash both spend is money in the bank. Utd being able to spend £hundreds of millions whilst being in the red can’t be right regardless of whether they can service the debt or not. Look what throwing cash around does on it’s on without good management. For that reason I will defend Liverpool and City’s spending.

 

 

I get the point but we sold to buy and used the money from three European finals. I doubt we get Alisson if Coutinho doesn't leave and tbh we've sold well in general, we deserve a medal for getting £15-20m for Solanke 😂

Screenshot_2020-02-02-20-56-38.thumb.png.82d633057c7b89af5a448e0005ea7af1.png

There's spending, then there's spending. 

We've signed smarter, spent less and actually improved players. We've likely doubled if not tripled the investment in these players. If you take Alisson and VVD out our starting XI isn't that bad (rough from memory)

Alisson (70m)

Trent (free) Gomez (3m) VVD (75m) Robbo (7m) 

Fabinho (40m)

Henderson (20m) Gini (25m) 

Salah (35m) Firmino (30m) Mane (30m) 

Stones and Walker cost more than our back 4. Rodri cost more than two of our midfielders. Sterling and Sane cost more than our front three. The midfield is more balanced when you add AOC and Keita tbf but the rest we don't come close, Salah is injured and we have a >20m back up while City have the £70m Mahrez. 

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Pep built this Liverpool team. If it wasn’t for how much he raised the bar with his City team this Liverpool team wouldn’t exist. They had to spend to keep up and then take advantage when inevitably City had a “poor” season (they aren’t having a poor season). Without doubt one of the most influential managers English Football has ever seen and Liverpool are gaining success from it.

Liverpool deserve to win the league as they’ve been the best team this season. Simple as that but in terms of just how good the squad is compared to other great English teams, the jury is still out because I doubt even Liverpool fans that the division this season is the weakest PL in recent memory. Top 10 in the Championship are just as good as the bottom 10 in the Prem.

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I'd also like to add in the last two transfer windows we've spent basically f all. £7 on Minamino, £2 on a kid for the reserves, Elliot (tribunal I believe), Adrian (free) and another keeper iirc. 

City spent £50m on a WB and £60 on a midfielder, never mind the daft money United have thrown around. 

9 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Pep built this Liverpool team. If it wasn’t for how much he raised the bar with his City team this Liverpool team wouldn’t exist. They had to spend to keep up and then take advantage when inevitably City had a “poor” season (they aren’t having a poor season). Without doubt one of the most influential managers English Football has ever seen and Liverpool are gaining success from it.

Agreed tbf. 

 

9 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Top 10 in the Championship are just as good as the bottom 10 in the Prem.

This I don't agree with. How tight the table is speaks for itself, if we weren't miles ahead and next to City or in top 4 everyone would be screaming how competitive it is. United are 11 points above the bottom three, Arsenal have won 6 games, City the best team ever apparently have lost 6. 

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17 minutes ago, Ashez said:

This I don't agree with. How tight the table is speaks for itself, if we weren't miles ahead and next to City or in top 4 everyone would be screaming how competitive it is. United are 11 points above the bottom three, Arsenal have won 6 games, City the best team ever apparently have lost 6. 

Do you think the league is as strong as it was even 5/6 years ago?

It’s garbage. Look at some of the teams down the bottom. How tight the table is shows the exact opposite to what you think, everyone beats everyone as they’re all as bad as each other not the other way round.

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Ash, the the thing with spending is there is no trophy for who spends the least. 

You’re comparing Liverpool v Man City but why not compare Liverpool to say Brighton because they have both won equal number of premiership titles up to this point.

£ spent per Premiership Titles could be a better way of looking at it because in business you have to invest for success. 

There will always be clubs who spend a lot and there will always be clubs who can’t spend much. The financial outlay should not be focused on but the result of the investment is far more open for critique. 

Edited by billy2shots
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3 hours ago, billy2shots said:

You’re comparing Liverpool v Man City but why not compare Liverpool to say Brighton because they have both won equal number of premiership titles up to this point.

Brighton have spent over twice our net spend 😛

Obviously I get your point but if you're going that deep you look at the wage bill. Ours is pretty high tbf, but our cap has massively improved from our European success. Milner was our highest on 140k iirc, but now Salah is on 200k and VVD is just under that iirc. City and even Arsenal have players on 300k+. Callum Hudson-Odoi is on 120k ffs, Mane is "only" on 100! Alisson 90k and Trent, Robbo and Gomez are under £50k each! 

Yet United I believe are the second highest spenders with the highest wage bill yet are a mid table side so I take your point, spending power means Jack shit 😛

 

Edited by Ashez
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1 minute ago, Ashez said:

Brighton have spent over twice our net spend 😛

Obviously I get your point but if you're going that deep you look at the wage bill. Ours is pretty high tbf, but our cap has massive improved from our European success. Milner was our highest on 120k iirc, but now Salah is on 200k and VVD is just under that iirc. City and even Arsenal have players on 300k+. Callum Hudson-,Odoi is one 120k ffs, Mane is "only" on 100! Alisson 90k and Trent, Robbo and Gomez are under £50k each! 

Yet United I believe are the second highest spenders with the highest wage bill yet are a mid table side so I take your point, spending power means Jack shit 😛

 

Some if those salaries cannot be right? Trent is on under 50?!? That’s nuts.

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1 hour ago, Ashez said:

The newest article I could find 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/every-liverpool-players-2019-20-21190109

Trent and Robbo are on £50k and Gomez £28k!

 

This is the crux of my argument really. A snapshot in time can be manipulated to fit arguments 

Let’s fast forward a couple of years and the narrative could easily be

-City net spend low due to homegrown kids such as Foden and Harwood Bellis being cornerstones and Sane and Jesus mega transfers to Madrid and Bayern.

-Liverpool ‘buying’ the title because they have kept their squad together (no big sales) and have strengthened buying two key (expensive players). 

-TAA now the most highly paid defender in history 

That 2 year stapshot could be used as a stick to unfairly beat Liverpool with, I can guarantee some people will be doing so though because stats can and are manipulated.

Above is just an example of how moving a slider 1 or 2 years either way can be used to argue a point. 

Liverpool did absolute amazing business with Suarez and then later Coutinho but that shouldn’t be relied upon to be the model going forward especially for teams keen to keep their best players. Thinking that it is sustainable to work that way should be avoided, treat those deals in isolation as cracking bits of business. Take the VVD and Alison deals as more the norm. It’s similar to Utd fans deluding themselves of their famed academy. No, they had an amazing group that came through together more than 20 years ago, the rest was and has been bang average.

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47 minutes ago, Rob said:

Bonkers.

Wan-Bissaka is apparently on £80k!! Dan James £70k!! Martial £250k!!!! 

Kyle Walker £110k John Stones £100k

KDB's wage is £350k and Sterling is on £300k. Those combined could cover half our starting XI! Salah £200k, Bobby £180k, Mane £100k, WBs £100k, Gomez £26k which leaves £44k and Origi is on £45k. 

Madness

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