Off Topic English football

[Ashez]

Adrian conceded 7-9 of those depending on if you'd count the Everton 2 or when they happened, cba to look. 

Liverpool is rotten because noone gave Alisson a cuddle 😂, love it. 

15 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

It seems everyone can see what's going on apart from those with red tinted spectacles and it's gone past funny, it's starting to be a little cringey and I'm feeling sorry for Jurgen in particular. He lost the plot at Dortmund in similar fashion and it could be a case of history repeating itself. 

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night, you couldn't live with us last season and you couldn't up until Xmas this season. That's fact. We crumbled while you found form. We couldn't sustain missing half the squad and key players that made us special. 

It took us to implode, to have some of the worst injury luck the league has ever seen, a pandemic stretching finances and the worst VAR "luck" going for you guys to compete again. Congratulations. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4182135/how-var-decisions-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2020-21%3fplatform=amp

You'll still be found out in Europe regardless. 

Like I said above this conversation is worthless, next season on even footing will be the time for discussions. That's when we'll know what's up. 

The Dortmund comparison is clutching at straws tbh. He had half a terrible season after working wonders on a tiny budget and replacing the squad often losing his best players. He turned it around and just about saved their season before leaving. They sold the best striker in world football and replaced him with someone who flopped, Dortmund used smart recruitment on cheap players which went wrong one season. I suppose we sign similarly but we have bigger pockets and buy the right player when needed. Klopp has shown he doesn't need a chequebook to wins things twice, Pep just needs all the money in the world and the best squads ever assembled. 

You put Klopp or Pep at Newcastle right now, who'd you think would do better? Who'd you rather @Rich? @Woody? Any other toon fan? I know I'd go Klopp 100%. 

[Dai_]

I'd take Pep. More attractive football.  

We like being entertained, remember. 

[Aaron Thornton]

 

[Ashez]

5 minutes ago, Dai_ said:

I'd take Pep. More attractive football.  

We like being entertained, remember. 

You think your current squad could play like that?

[Dai_]

1 minute ago, Ashez said:

You think your current squad could play like that?

 

Nope. I don't think it could play the Klopp way either. Granted, Klopp talks about the press as an additional playmaker being on the field. I love that mentality. I would just prefer Pep.

We've never demanded that we challenge for stuff. Just want to be proud of the effort and way we play. I say we but I mean me. Can't speak for all of us.

[Ashez]

Just now, Dai_ said:

 

Nope. I don't think it could play the Klopp way either. Granted, Klopp talks about the press as an additional playmaker being on the field. I love that mentality. I would just prefer Pep.

We've never demanded that we challenge for stuff. Just want to be proud of the effort and way we play. I say we but I mean me. Can't speak for all of us.

Surprising, I thought you'd back your lads to just "play direct long balls" and hope "luck" goes your way haha. Then obviously run around a tad more lol. Klopp could potentially get workrate out of players, he did for us. 

As you said though I'm not saying either would challenge for stuff, I'm just asking who people think would do better. 

[Rich]

I would go for Klopp, I can see where @Dai_ is coming from and to be honest I’d kill for either, but I think Klopp would bring the club together more and get more passion out of the team. One of my best mates supports Man City and there’s been times where he’s been on the side about Pep where as all my Liverpool mates still love Klopp. Which says something.

[Ashez]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

I would go for Klopp, I can see where @Dai_ is coming from and to be honest I’d kill for either, but I think Klopp would bring the club together more and get more passion out of the team. One of my best mates supports Man City and there’s been times where he’s been on the side about Pep where as all my Liverpool mates still love Klopp. Which says something.

I reckon Klopp could make your front three pretty tasty not going to lie! Dunno about the midfield mind! That front three though has alot of what he likes like graft, pace, ability and so on. 

[billy2shots]

24 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Klopp has shown he doesn't need a chequebook to wins things twice, Pep just needs all the money in the world and the best squads ever assembled. 

 

 

 

Oh no, not the spending argument again. 

Ok, let's put another Liverpool myth to bed. 

 

First I'm going to have to give an example. If I trade in my BMW for a Porsche and the difference only cost me £10k cash that Porsche didn't only cost £10k. There's the cost that I originally spent on the BMW. 

This I feel is a flaw in every Liverpool's argument. Sure Klopp's net spend isn't that much but the Club had to sell off assets that they originally had to pay cold hard cash for. 

So now that's out of the way let's get to facts. The premiere league is not a competition about who can spend the most or the least. The money spent has to be equated to success. We can't pick certain dates as Liverpool fans always start from the time they sold Suarez and Coutinho as it fits their agenda. 

We have to go back to the beginning. 

Man City have spent £1614.4m on players in the Premiere League.

Liverpool have spent £1079.1m

 

Man city have a spending to success ratio of £403.6m Per Premiere League Title

Liverpool have a spending to success ratio of £1079.1m per Prem title

 

But we all know Liverpool will be spending the Coutinho money for the next 10 years so let's do the important bit, Net spend. 

 

City Net per Prem title £268.30m

Liverpool Net per Prem title £328.9m

 

Taken from here

 

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-1992-to-date/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-1992-to-date

 

This other source makes far worse reading for the reds

https://www.themag.co.uk/2020/08/the-table-of-net-premier-league-spend-on-transfers-by-clubs-since-1992-93-newcastle-united/

 

🎣

[Ashez]

So what you're saying is 

Liverpool - £1079.1m since 1992. They've won 2 Champions Leagues in that time and got to four finals. To be nice I'll ignore the other major European titles won in that period. 

So 1079.1m / 2 = 539.55 per win. Or 269.277 per final. 

Man City - 1614.4m / 0 = I think the calculator says it best 

Mate just admit we're in City's head, you lot spend way too much time worrying about us. So what your backline cost more than our entire defensive unit, that's football hey. 

[billy2shots]

Hahaha,

 

Moving the goal posts completely, love it👍

 

You are of course correct. I'm petrified of this Liverpool team and their dynasty of 1 league title. 

 

Injuries ✔️

Spending ✔️

European success ✔️

 

That's Liverpool Bingo complete. 

All friendly bants 💰

Edited February 20, 2021 by billy2shots

[Ashez]

Just now, billy2shots said:

Hahaha,

 

Moving the goal posts completely, love it👍

 

You are of course correct. I'm petrified of this Liverpool team and their dynasty of 1 league title. 

You wanted it ranked on success, that's all I did. Just on the important European level you owners want and have spent a fortune failing to achieve. Even you want it. 

1 hour ago, billy2shots said:

I want to disallow Llorente's handball and make us CL champs but life doesn't work that way

Be domestic royalty until your owners pull the plug, Liverpool are European royalty and as we've discussed you've got a free hit this season. 

Just remember next season that you couldn't keep the pace until we imploded, last season you were nowhere near and the season before the width of a post was the deciding factor. 

[broodje kip]

3 hours ago, Ashez said:

Our Three injured CBs would arguably get into your team

Not sure about this part though. Apart from VVD, I don’t think Matip and Gomez would go into our team.

[Woody]

2 hours ago, Ashez said:

Adrian conceded 7-9 of those depending on if you'd count the Everton 2 or when they happened, cba to look. 

Liverpool is rotten because noone gave Alisson a cuddle 😂, love it. 

Whatever helps you sleep at night, you couldn't live with us last season and you couldn't up until Xmas this season. That's fact. We crumbled while you found form. We couldn't sustain missing half the squad and key players that made us special. 

It took us to implode, to have some of the worst injury luck the league has ever seen, a pandemic stretching finances and the worst VAR "luck" going for you guys to compete again. Congratulations. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4182135/how-var-decisions-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2020-21%3fplatform=amp

You'll still be found out in Europe regardless. 

Like I said above this conversation is worthless, next season on even footing will be the time for discussions. That's when we'll know what's up. 

The Dortmund comparison is clutching at straws tbh. He had half a terrible season after working wonders on a tiny budget and replacing the squad often losing his best players. He turned it around and just about saved their season before leaving. They sold the best striker in world football and replaced him with someone who flopped, Dortmund used smart recruitment on cheap players which went wrong one season. I suppose we sign similarly but we have bigger pockets and buy the right player when needed. Klopp has shown he doesn't need a chequebook to wins things twice, Pep just needs all the money in the world and the best squads ever assembled. 

You put Klopp or Pep at Newcastle right now, who'd you think would do better? Who'd you rather @Rich? @Woody? Any other toon fan? I know I'd go Klopp 100%. 

I prefer Klopps all out attacking football tbh. I dont dislike Pep's way but i love how Liverpool attack teams.

[Ashez]

16 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

Not sure about this part though. Apart from VVD, I don’t think Matip and Gomez would go into our team.

I think it was mainly on the Liverpool rumour sites but I remember seeing Pep was interested in Gomez, can't seem to find any reports though so maybe it was just BS. Gomez and Matip are class though, just injury prone. Before Dias both would walk into your team though, now it's tighter obviously. Gomez's form did dip last year but the year before he was immense. 

[broodje kip]

4 minutes ago, Ashez said:

I think it was mainly on the Liverpool rumour sites but I remember seeing Pep was interested in Gomez, can't seem to find any reports though so maybe it was just BS. Gomez and Matip are class though, just injury prone. Before Dias both would walk into your team though, now it's tighter obviously. Gomez's form did dip last year but the year before he was immense. 

He’s class but I think he won’t start ahead of Stones, Dias and makeshift Fernandinho. He can compete with Ake with Garcia recent deep of form. The position I’m sure Liverpool can walk into our team would surely be our forwards. No freaking idea how our frontline can have players so quality yet so shit.

[billy2shots]

9 hours ago, Ashez said:

You wanted it ranked on success, that's all I did. Just on the important European level you owners want and have spent a fortune failing to achieve. Even you want it. 

Be domestic royalty until your owners pull the plug, Liverpool are European royalty and as we've discussed you've got a free hit this season. 

Just remember next season that you couldn't keep the pace until we imploded, last season you were nowhere near and the season before the width of a post was the deciding factor. 

 

The light hearted discussion was about the Premier League which you know very well. 

I hope I've gone some way to dismiss the urban myths that Liverpool have only turned to s4it because of injuries to the defenders and that Liverpool have won the league on a shoe string. 

The facts speak for themselves and are evidence based not opinion. 

 

If you want to ignore those facts and start a different discussion on European football to make you feel better then ok. 

Liverpool are far more successful in Europe than City. 

There, that's the truth of it. 

 

Now you've moved on to City wanting your defenders because it was on a Liverpool fan forum and we only won the league by the width of a post.......

 

This seems to be disintegrating into many different directions so I won't bore everyone by continuing my chain yanking. A nerve seems to have been touched. 

 

 

 

[Aaron Thornton]

Since when did The Toon become a pressing team 🤔

[Ashez]

21 hours ago, Ashez said:

I reckon Klopp could make your front three pretty tasty not going to lie! Dunno about the midfield mind! That front three though has alot of what he likes like graft, pace, ability and so on. 

 

5 minutes ago, Aaron Thornton said:

Since when did The Toon become a pressing team 🤔

Bruce is obviously a Viber! 

[Dai_]

6 minutes ago, Aaron Thornton said:

Since when did The Toon become a pressing team 🤔

Since Graeme Jones came in. We're still getting used to it but it's making us a lot more tolerable to watch.

If only Almiron had support. The fella is everywhere!

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dai_

[samhardy]

See you in the Championship next season @Woody @Rich @Dai_

[Dai_]

8 minutes ago, samhardy said:

See you in the Championship next season @Woody @Rich @Dai_

🤣🤣 we're much more likely to be there than you lot anyway. 

[Woody]

8 minutes ago, samhardy said:

See you in the Championship next season @Woody @Rich @Dai_

You're confident 😂

Played well today. Gutted but Shelvey is an absolute liability!

[Dai_]

3 minutes ago, Woody said:

You're confident 😂

Played well today. Gutted but Shelvey is an absolute liability!

We did play well. Ultimately, their individual quality was the difference.

Fulham win against Palace next week and we're in the bottom 3. 😔 We won't get anything from the Wolves game, I can feel it. Some tough weeks and months ahead.

[Woody]

1 minute ago, Dai_ said:

We did play well. Ultimately, their individual quality was the difference.

Fulham win against Palace next week and we're in the bottom 3. 😔 We won't get anything from the Wolves game, I can feel it. Some tough weeks and months ahead.

Defo. The injuries are telling too.

Not sure why he bought ASM off as i would of had Murphy on aswell as.

[Dai_]

36 minutes ago, Woody said:

Defo. The injuries are telling too.

Not sure why he bought ASM off as i would of had Murphy on aswell as.

ASM still hasn't played a lot of football. I know we're getting a week or so break in between games but he's obviously still not ready to play a full 90. Was he ever?

[Ashez]

Henderson reported to be out for the next 5 games, FML. 

Saw this earlier 

No surprise that those are the players we've absolutely ran into the ground just trying to cope and who've looked knackered often, the first three especially. 

This season has be utterly mental. 

[broodje kip]

3 hours ago, Ashez said:

 

Bruce is obviously a Viber! 

I suspect @samhardy

[Woody]

2 hours ago, Dai_ said:

ASM still hasn't played a lot of football. I know we're getting a week or so break in between games but he's obviously still not ready to play a full 90. Was he ever?

He is non stop 😂

[billy2shots]

13 hours ago, Ashez said:

Henderson reported to be out for the next 5 games, FML. 

Saw this earlier 

No surprise that those are the players we've absolutely ran into the ground just trying to cope and who've looked knackered often, the first three especially. 

This season has be utterly mental. 

 

For some context,

 

There have been 25 League games played by the majority of teams. If we take a rough guide as 3/4 of the season that would equal 18 games so far. I would be happy if my players played 3/4 of league matches given other cup commitments.

 

Liverpool players who have played 3/4 of league games or more.

 

Allison 21

Robertson 25

TAA 23

Fabinho 18

Gini W 25

Henderson 21

Jones 18

Firmino 25

Mane 22

Salah 24

 

10 players have played 3/4 of games or more and that looks like a pretty decent team right there. Add in a centreback to partner Fab and that's a title winning starting 11.

 

 

Leicester City. Played the same amount of games and have to contend with the harder schedule of the UEFA Cup.

 

Kasper 25

Justin 23

Evans 21

Tielemans 25

Maddison 23

Albrighton 18

Barnes 24

Mendy 19

Vardy 21

 

( players who have played 3/4 of league games or more)

 

Comparing the 2 teams above I would say Leicester have considerably outperformed Liverpool considering - Players available, current league standing and the UEFA Cup commitments.

 

Other teams ahead of Liverpool in the League

 

Man U - 12 players have played 3/4 of games or more

Man City 10, I'm surprised by that. The same as Liverpool

West Ham -  8 players !!!!!!

Chelsea - 9 Players

 

 

Take from that what you will but I guess 20/21 is just a crazy season for every team. Some have outperformed their circumstances and some have not.

Edited February 22, 2021 by billy2shots