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Off Topic European Football


Eoin
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I was never comfortable in that match even as 90 mini approached it didn't feel right. 

The lack of a second goal last night or 2/3 goal advantage in the first leg meant a window was left open for Madrid.

No excuses, we ballsed up big time. We should never have allowed the crowd to get into the game or put the ref under that pressure.

No striker has hurt us more than once this season but that's the most obvious it's been over those two legs. 

 

Just to be clear, we deserved to lose given what I said above and you can add in poor game management but , and you knew there would be a but. Some random feelings are-

- I would love to win the league and CL. If it had to be only one then the Prem is the bread and button so let's hope we do that. Can't be the best in Euroy if you are not the best in your own country. Obviously Liverpool and Real can be both this season. 

- The ref was way out of his depth. Casemiro should have had 4 yellow cards. Only 3 minutes of injury time at the end of extra time and he blew after 2min 50 anyway. Not saying we would have scored but 3 minutes considering NO football was actually played in that last 15 minutes.

- We need a striker and a left back. We have neither and you can't win trophies (or keep winning them) with square pegs in round holes. 

 

- how the actual fcuk did Real do that. They were awful in both legs and somehow got through scoring with pretty much every opportunity they had and they didn't have anything for 90 minutes last night. It boggles the mind 

 

- I always want the British team to win so come on Liverpool

 

 

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2 hours ago, billy2shots said:

I was never comfortable in that match even as 90 mini approached it didn't feel right. 

The lack of a second goal last night or 2/3 goal advantage in the first leg meant a window was left open for Madrid.

No excuses, we ballsed up big time. We should never have allowed the crowd to get into the game or put the ref under that pressure.

No striker has hurt us more than once this season but that's the most obvious it's been over those two legs. 

 

Just to be clear, we deserved to lose given what I said above and you can add in poor game management but , and you knew there would be a but. Some random feelings are-

- I would love to win the league and CL. If it had to be only one then the Prem is the bread and button so let's hope we do that. Can't be the best in Euroy if you are not the best in your own country. Obviously Liverpool and Real can be both this season. 

- The ref was way out of his depth. Casemiro should have had 4 yellow cards. Only 3 minutes of injury time at the end of extra time and he blew after 2min 50 anyway. Not saying we would have scored but 3 minutes considering NO football was actually played in that last 15 minutes.

- We need a striker and a left back. We have neither and you can't win trophies (or keep winning them) with square pegs in round holes. 

 

- how the actual fcuk did Real do that. They were awful in both legs and somehow got through scoring with pretty much every opportunity they had and they didn't have anything for 90 minutes last night. It boggles the mind 

 

- I always want the British team to win so come on Liverpool

 

 

Do you think you'll bottle the league @billy2shots? Honestly I can't see us doing the quadruple, it's a fun ride and I'd love it to happen but I can't see it. I'm not sure where you drop points unless this hangover is brutal but at the same time it puts all your focus on the league. 

I said at work Monday I could see us messing up against Villarreal or Spurs, something about this week made me uneasy so that first half against Villarreal had my heart in my mouth. So I wouldn't be shocked if Spurs get something and as we play first that could be all you need. Hopefully not but I can't see us winning all 4 and you lot not. 

As for the FA and CL anything could happen, that's the beauty of a one off game. I want at least one more trophy and ideally one of the big two. I'll be gutted if we end the season with just the League Cup at this point but the journey has been incredible. I'm also so annoyed the FA Cup final is between Prem fixtures, like what the hell. 

We're in the Champions League Final due to our goalkeeper scoring against West Brom.......Whatever happens it's been a wild ride. 

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1 hour ago, Ashez said:

Do you think you'll bottle the league @billy2shots? Honestly I can't see us doing the quadruple, it's a fun ride and I'd love it to happen but I can't see it. I'm not sure where you drop points unless this hangover is brutal but at the same time it puts all your focus on the league. 

I said at work Monday I could see us messing up against Villarreal or Spurs, something about this week made me uneasy so that first half against Villarreal had my heart in my mouth. So I wouldn't be shocked if Spurs get something and as we play first that could be all you need. Hopefully not but I can't see us winning all 4 and you lot not. 

As for the FA and CL anything could happen, that's the beauty of a one off game. I want at least one more trophy and ideally one of the big two. I'll be gutted if we end the season with just the League Cup at this point but the journey has been incredible. I'm also so annoyed the FA Cup final is between Prem fixtures, like what the hell. 

We're in the Champions League Final due to our goalkeeper scoring against West Brom.......Whatever happens it's been a wild ride. 

I wouldn't call it bottling the league if we don't win it. 

But it's really 50/50 (stating the obvious). 

I was worried either way. I think the players will be incredibly down now so that could create some more poor performances/results.

On the flip side, Pep is the opposite to me and would favour the CL over the league. I have no doubt he would have played a weakened team at times in league games in preparation for a CL final had we made it. So that couy have gone against us. 

Still annoyed with him playing our B team in an FA Cup semi final.

I still fully expect some random youngsters or positiong fcukery from Pep. Great coach but arrogant trying to impress when there isn't the need. 

As for Liverpool then, they should win another couple of trophies from this point, only one more would be an anticlimax surely from this position. This is going to sound bonkers given last night's result but Real are very weak and easily beatable, the worst Real team for 15/20 years. Benfica-Villarreal in the 1/4 then 1/2s would be a bang tidy draw in the UEFA let alone CL so lady luck has certainly smiled on the Reds.

Those old enough to remember UTD do the treble will also remember their luck. Everyone is aware of the last minute goals Vs Bayern but there was also the Arsenal penalty miss followed by the Giggs run and goal.

They were 1 penalty conversation away from a mediocre season imho. This season has the whiff of that for Liverpool with the planets aligning for them. 

 

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1 hour ago, billy2shots said:

I wouldn't call it bottling the league if we don't win it. 

But it's really 50/50 (stating the obvious). 

I was worried either way. I think the players will be incredibly down now so that could create some more poor performances/results.

On the flip side, Pep is the opposite to me and would favour the CL over the league. I have no doubt he would have played a weakened team at times in league games in preparation for a CL final had we made it. So that couy have gone against us. 

Still annoyed with him playing our B team in an FA Cup semi final.

I still fully expect some random youngsters or positiong fcukery from Pep. Great coach but arrogant trying to impress when there isn't the need. 

As for Liverpool then, they should win another couple of trophies from this point, only one more would be an anticlimax surely from this position. This is going to sound bonkers given last night's result but Real are very weak and easily beatable, the worst Real team for 15/20 years. Benfica-Villarreal in the 1/4 then 1/2s would be a bang tidy draw in the UEFA let alone CL so lady luck has certainly smiled on the Reds.

Those old enough to remember UTD do the treble will also remember their luck. Everyone is aware of the last minute goals Vs Bayern but there was also the Arsenal penalty miss followed by the Giggs run and goal.

They were 1 penalty conversation away from a mediocre season imho. This season has the whiff of that for Liverpool with the planets aligning for them. 

 

Not bottled it? Didn't you have like a 14 point lead? 🎣🎣🎣. If we steal the league from you it'll be deserved as the final points total from both will be insane, but it'll be more damaging to City than last night's implosion imo. Hell getting an insane point total and finishing second again by like a point could even damage us. Imagine City going without a trophy 😱

Like I said I personally don't see you dropping points now, especially if you get past this weekends fixture, which is only important if we beat Spurs. 

I think that's a harsh call, I'd be massively disappointed if we got one or none of the remaining titles available but nothing is a certainty. We've had tough fixtures verse Chelsea this season, who lets not forget beat you lot in the biggest game of them all last season. It's a one off game so anything can happen, for all we know if Chelsea didn't change keepers in the League Cup we'd might not be in such a situation (especially as they did batter us). As for Madrid I'd fancy ourselves but Madrid have been weak for years but look at what they've achieved regardless, they have the know how to win. I didn't fear them in 2018 and obviously things massively went against us with the Salah assault and the Karius concussion/mistakes but they know how to win better than anyone. Then as we've discussed the league is a mystery at this point. We're playing well unlike earlier in the season and we've shown for months we can win when playing like shit but these are big asks. Chelsea and Madrid are basically on holiday now until the cup finals, while we're still chasing you lot. We can't rest for the FA Cup unless we know the league is gone etc. All I know is these lads don't give up and they'll bring home what they can. 

If we win the Champions League we've beaten last season's and this season's Spanish Champions, last season's Seria A winner and likely this season's winner (if either Milan win it), likely this season's winner of the Portuguese league and the holder of the Europa League who knocked out the German Champions and Juventus. Maybe it's not as glamorous that we didn't knock out Bayern ourselves but Villarreal were there for a reason and still needed dealing with. 

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1 hour ago, Ashez said:

Not bottled it? Didn't you have like a 14 point lead? 🎣🎣🎣. If we steal the league from you it'll be deserved as the final points total from both will be insane, but it'll be more damaging to City than last night's implosion imo. Hell getting an insane point total and finishing second again by like a point could even damage us. Imagine City going without a trophy 😱

Like I said I personally don't see you dropping points now, especially if you get past this weekends fixture, which is only important if we beat Spurs. 

I think that's a harsh call, I'd be massively disappointed if we got one or none of the remaining titles available but nothing is a certainty. We've had tough fixtures verse Chelsea this season, who lets not forget beat you lot in the biggest game of them all last season. It's a one off game so anything can happen, for all we know if Chelsea didn't change keepers in the League Cup we'd might not be in such a situation (especially as they did batter us). As for Madrid I'd fancy ourselves but Madrid have been weak for years but look at what they've achieved regardless, they have the know how to win. I didn't fear them in 2018 and obviously things massively went against us with the Salah assault and the Karius concussion/mistakes but they know how to win better than anyone. Then as we've discussed the league is a mystery at this point. We're playing well unlike earlier in the season and we've shown for months we can win when playing like shit but these are big asks. Chelsea and Madrid are basically on holiday now until the cup finals, while we're still chasing you lot. We can't rest for the FA Cup unless we know the league is gone etc. All I know is these lads don't give up and they'll bring home what they can. 

If we win the Champions League we've beaten last season's and this season's Spanish Champions, last season's Seria A winner and likely this season's winner (if either Milan win it), likely this season's winner of the Portuguese league and the holder of the Europa League who knocked out the German Champions and Juventus. Maybe it's not as glamorous that we didn't knock out Bayern ourselves but Villarreal were there for a reason and still needed dealing with. 

 

 

I'm slightly embarrassed to say I have just had to look up Klopp's Liverpool success. Given the noise coming from Reds supporters I couldn't quite get my head around the excitement for a season of multiple trophies ,(par for the course at City). 

I now fully understand the excitement as it just doesn't happen often -

Since joining in October 2015 he / Liverpool have the following major trophies

1 X Premier League

1 X Champions League

1 X League Cup

 

Wow. Let's be honest. That's not a whole lot given the amount of noise.

 

 

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On 03/03/2012 at 16:57, Eoin said:

Talk about any European League in this thread.

 

Just got into the foreign league scene, have been watching the Serie A and Liga BBVA and Bundeliga highlights a bit.

 

One point I must make is that Barcelona's away form has been dire and that's what's bringing them down. They've dropped 14 away from the Camp Nou and only dropped 2 at home. In contrast, Réal have only dropped 4 away, and only 7 all season. Your thoughts?

so true

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1 hour ago, JamesVilla said:

Anyone else seen Mbappes new contract, and the influence he can have on the manager/squad? Its ridiculous. the game has gone. 

Agreed. One that you end up just tutting and shaking your head at.

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4 hours ago, Rob said:

Agreed. One that you end up just tutting and shaking your head at.

He's overrated anyway 😋

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13 hours ago, AdamNufc said:

@AshezScore prediction for tonight lad? Sorry but ive got Real to win Benzema to score

Not put much thought into it tbf, whatever happens happens. Just focusing on enjoying it ATM. Tbf woke up at 7pm so not had chance to get nervous yet, I'll be a mess during the match though 😂

Seeing Thiago now is making the nerves build mind! 

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What a performance from Courtois!

Domestic Cup double for Liverpool seems a bit underwhelming! Considering how close to a quadruple they were. Unlucky!

The run Real Madrid have had to this final was epic! They had to win it. Hala Madrid!

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Absolutely gutted. Thought we played pretty well, decision making in attack maybe off but we still created plenty. Didn't score when we dominated and I think 63 games caught up with us in the second half. 

Courtois though was out of this world, what a CL winning performance!! The Mane and Salah saves were incredible! Not saying we got FMM'd but it bloody feels like it! 2 shots on target for Madrid 😡

This is NOT a dig at Trent at all, as all in all he defended well and he is actually a decent defender. However conceding in that way was so fucking predictable, it was the one worry all build up of Vinicius getting behind him and conceding like that is a sickener. Suppose I'm actually annoyed at how this enforces the false narrative about him. 

Have to mention Konate though, what an absolute beast! He was incredible throughout. 

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Bizarre game. Even though Liverpool had loads of shots it was like Madrid still have a lot of control. Like they were waiting in the shadows. Just a weird match.

A prime Firmino and Mane on the left and Liverpool would have won that IMO. 

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Michael Owen summing up 99% of Liverpool supporters -

'I still think Liverpool are the best team in Europe'

Rio Ferdinand summing up 99% of other football fans-

'But they didn't win their own league or the this Cup,'

Owen

'I still think they are the best'

😂

 

Well done Real, a League and CL double. 

Unlucky to Liverpool. A good season winning a couple of domestic cups and going close in the other competitions.

 

 

 

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Two trophies won and it still ended up being a somewhat disappointing season for Liverpool. Real played the best way they could and Liverpool needed the early goal.

It was still a great season for Liverpool, all in all. What an effort.

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yes a great Liverpool today, I think that if Liverpool won the league, they will be European champions but that's not the case, too bad, failure follows failure.🥱

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Love how we're judged as failing for what we won and lost, yet the teams we lost too aren't judged as being the incredible teams they are even though they won 🤔. The double standards to fit the narrative of a domestic double somehow being underwhelming is batshit crazy.

We were a point or maybe even as little as 6 minutes away from the title against the greatest side the league has seen with unlimited wealth, resources and an incredible manager. A point. Not even for the first time have we been in this situation. Don't get me wrong a point is a point and City deserved it. Should I feel underwhelmed because we came second behind such an incredible team? Disappointed as we lost something we could have won but underwhelmed? Tbh I'm not entitled enough to think we should win the league. If it wasn't for us the Premier League would be dead, as who wants to see City win the title by 20-30 points year in year out. 

Then the "past it" Real Madrid who have one of the most incredible records in recent years with the best manager in the history of the Champions League who beat impossible odds to reach the final also beat us. In a one off match where we dominated but were done by a fantastic defensive display and one of the best goalkeeping performances the competition has likely seen in a final. 

I'm not underwhelmed, I'm disappointed we didn't get either of the other two but I'm so incredibly proud of this journey regardless of the outcome. I've seen us be dross for so long, I've dreamed for us to be at least competitive for more years than I'd like to remember. I've seen us under Roy, I've seen Ricky Lambert lead the line, I've seen Vonorin declared a marquee signing and I tell you now I'll appreciate every single title Klopp brings back to Anfield. 

It's no secret I wanted the league, it's no surprise I'm gutted we lost the Champions League but I don't for a second take for granted what we've won. Maybe compared to the title winning season (which we didn't get to celebrate) and the CL winning season I'm not screaming to the high heavens about our success but I'm still honoured to see this team lift these Cups. 

It stings to know we've lost two titles by a point and we've now lost 3 European finals under Klopp. But it makes you appreciate what you have, obviously we could of had more and who doesn't want more but we've so much more than thousands of other clubs and fans. 

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Posted (edited)

It's probably a little too early and raw to throw this question out there but here is one for Ashez and other Liverpool fans. 

The term 'Mentality monsters' has been used on here and in the wider SM and press. They even used it on commentary last night. I don't know if that's a self titled thing or where it originated from.

However, it seems a very clumsy label to use for Klopp and Liverpool.

3 Cup finals this season and Liverpool failed to score in all 3. Coincidence could be argued or dare I say mentality could be questioned. That's probably a little harsh as Liverpool were the better side for 40 minutes last night but they stank Wembley out for the two Chelsea games (imho). 

Then we can add important league results into the mix. Liverpool failed to win ANY games against other 'Top 4' competition this year. 6 games played against City, Chelsea and Spurs and not a single victory. 

It seems bonkers trying to derive a pattern from that until you look further back. I made a massive post a year or 18 months ago detailing Klopp as the nearly man. Loads of lost finals and second places. How his team's always* run out of steam at the end of seasons and when it matters most.

Taken in isolation this season and past Liverpool seasons under Klopp have been good. They are just not the amazing awe-inspiring season's or results that a number of Liverpool fans or reds biased media would have you believe (not fans on Vibe who seem very balanced)

That said the term 'mentality monsters' actually comes across as a bit cringey.

So do Liverpool fans think there could be an underlying issue when the shit gets real? Of course Klopp will win things, the law of averages dictates if you are regularly in a position to do so, you will get over the line on occasions but it still feels like things tail off more than they should. Of course the obvious counter argument is, Klopp at least put teams in a position to win things even if he fails to do so far more than he succeeds. 

 

*The title winning season Klopp could go full beans as it was played in 2 parts due to covid suspending the league. Players could rest and recover so they could hang on at the end. Taking nothing away from Liverpool or Klopp, it's just a fact. We will never know if they wouy have kept up their pace and stayed injury free. 

Edited by billy2shots
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Mentality Monsters came from Klopp iirc and it's about the fact we never give up. We were in this final as we didn't give up last season as everything went to shit, Alisson delivered the goal to secure CL football at the death. We keep going until it's over, it's nothing to do with being nearly men. We were 13 points behind in the league ffs, who comes back from that to potentially take it on the final day? Sure City dropped points but we were there to keep pace. The comeback against Dortmund to reach the EL final, the comeback against Barca to reach Madrid and so many more in the Klopp era. 

I won't lie not scoring in 3 cup finals is a concern but look at the context! 

League Cup - We were in dreadful form at that time of year, we were still getting results thankfully but our form was trash. Chelsea did batter us that day, but we never gave up and we won on penalties. 

FA Cup - I think we were just flat, it's been a long old season as we've played every game possible, 63 isn't it? Obviously not as many at that point but both sides were knackered. It's also worth noting while I appreciate the win at that point it was the lowest priority. I'm still miffed how the game was played before the season ended. 

CL - We were the better team, against most sides we'd score at least two from that performance imo, Madrid offered little as the goal aside we handled their counter attacking threat and that's all they looked to do. I was fearful what would happen when they decided to go for it I'll admit but in the end they didn't need to as their keeper was in sensational form. We might not have created countless fantastic chances (neither did they) but the ones we did were excellent and well saved, he made more saves last night than against City for example. You can call us mentality monsters or comeback kings or European royalty or whatever you want but the one club all those things also apply to is Real Madrid, they're a winning machine.

Opposition - It's not like Madrid and Chelsea aren't defensive teams, yes you have to beat what's in front of you but both sides defended brilliantly. 

I think a big thing though is the Salah situation. 

1. Obviously the contract issue is a cloud, I don't know what will happen but I think he'll stay. I know he's said he will but no chance he stays without signing a new deal, if he doesn't sign he leaves this summer as we won't let him go on a free. 

2. The poor lad had been over played into the ground! An ever present for us and how many 120mins has he done for Egypt this season? It's a miracle he's still been able to produce, even if it's at a much lower quality than you'd expect. Before January he was the best player in the league, by the time he was back from the ACONs he looked exhausted, both physically and mentally. Look at the difference in Mane after winning the ACON and qualifying for the WC, it renewed him but Salah while trying never really clicked again for the rest of the season. 

3. The slight change in role. This one might not be as obvious but without Firmino pulling the string Salah actually becomes the more creative player of the three. He stays alittle wider and deeper and joins us together more than when Bobby is doing that job. This is more apparent with Jota playing central as he plays it more like a normal striker with Salah being the link and Diaz/Mane the out ball and width. With Mane central he has been dropping deep and linking more but he's not as effective as Bobby, like how often does Mane receive the ball with his back to goal. Mane's shot especially last night was unlucky as it was a worldie save onto the post they easily could have hit the keeper and gone in. 

4. He's lost the ACONs, the league, the CL and failed to qualify for the WC due to his miss after a horrendous campaign last season. He's a global icon. The pressure on the bloke is unreal! However I do have to criticize his insistence of being after revenge against Madrid. That ghost was layed to bed against Spurs, there was no need for his focus in the build up to be about that. I'll admit I was worried he'd go in too pumped up and get sent off or something as even when Klopp/Hendo have tried to downplay it he kept insisting he wanted revenge. Redemption sure, but revenge? Didn't like it and now he's opened himself up to more grief. The video of the goal against Wolves and the Liverpool players while celebrating it are asking the fans what the City score was, the look on his face when he heard you'd turned it around. It was a mental day as a fan but imagine being involved in it. 

46 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

Taken in isolation this season and past Liverpool seasons under Klopp have been good. They are just not the amazing awe-inspiring season's or results that a number of Liverpool fans or reds biased media would have you believe (not fans on Vibe who seem very balanced)

That's blinkered surely? The three 90+ point seasons pisses on that arguement. Or is that not an achievement for you lot either? I get winning is winning and it is the be all and end all as it's the point of the game but dismissing such a tally because we didn't win is daft. How many times have teams got more points than 97, 99, 92?? Yes last year was a disaster but look how we bounced back. 

Spurs got 71 points this year, we got 69 last. Do you see Spurs getting a whisker away from the Quadruple? When we've got the closest anyone has ever got. 

That's not taking into account winning the CL, the domestic cups and the other major finals we reached. Which the most expensively assembled team in history didn't reach even with the greatest manager of all time. 

59 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

So do Liverpool fans think there could be an underlying issue when the shit gets real? Of course Klopp will win things, the law of averages dictates if you are regularly in a position to do so, you will get over the line on occasions but it still feels like things tail off more than they should. Of course the obvious counter argument is, Klopp at least put teams in a position to win things even if he fails to do so far more than he succeeds. 

That's just football. Klopp and Liverpool's biggest issue isn't that we're nearly men or that we've fell short more times than we liked. The simple answer is...... Manchester City. Without you lot he'd have walked multiple league titles then the conversation is completely different. He's up against the greatest side in the history of the league and the difference between three league titles and one is two bloody points. That's it. If we were sat here with that two point swing with Liverpool having two more titles nothing would be said. Yes you have them and we don't but we're talking the finest of margines, it's not like we lost in disgrace, each and every time we've battled until the end. 

Obviously you can argue any cup final defeats but they're one off games where anything can happen, and unfortunately for us it did in Kiev. We managed a win in Madrid then last night in France we fell short even though we played well, it happens. 

I'm incredibly proud of what Klopp has brought to this team. He's not only made us dream but he's allowed us to continue dreaming while delivering, unfortunately he's not delivered everything he could have but he's got us close, and alot closer than most sides. I'm not entitled, I don't demand or expect success and I appreciate it when it comes, I'm taking nothing for granted. Obviously I wish we won more to cement this era's status but I remember the dark days and you only have to look at United to see those days are only a couple of mistakes away. 

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34 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Mentality Monsters came from Klopp iirc and it's about the fact we never give up. We were in this final as we didn't give up last season as everything went to shit, Alisson delivered the goal to secure CL football at the death. We keep going until it's over, it's nothing to do with being nearly men. We were 13 points behind in the league ffs, who comes back from that to potentially take it on the final day? Sure City dropped points but we were there to keep pace. The comeback against Dortmund to reach the EL final, the comeback against Barca to reach Madrid and so many more in the Klopp era. 

I won't lie not scoring in 3 cup finals is a concern but look at the context! 

League Cup - We were in dreadful form at that time of year, we were still getting results thankfully but our form was trash. Chelsea did batter us that day, but we never gave up and we won on penalties. 

FA Cup - I think we were just flat, it's been a long old season as we've played every game possible, 63 isn't it? Obviously not as many at that point but both sides were knackered. It's also worth noting while I appreciate the win at that point it was the lowest priority. I'm still miffed how the game was played before the season ended. 

CL - We were the better team, against most sides we'd score at least two from that performance imo, Madrid offered little as the goal aside we handled their counter attacking threat and that's all they looked to do. I was fearful what would happen when they decided to go for it I'll admit but in the end they didn't need to as their keeper was in sensational form. We might not have created countless fantastic chances (neither did they) but the ones we did were excellent and well saved, he made more saves last night than against City for example. You can call us mentality monsters or comeback kings or European royalty or whatever you want but the one club all those things also apply to is Real Madrid, they're a winning machine.

Opposition - It's not like Madrid and Chelsea aren't defensive teams, yes you have to beat what's in front of you but both sides defended brilliantly. 

I think a big thing though is the Salah situation. 

1. Obviously the contract issue is a cloud, I don't know what will happen but I think he'll stay. I know he's said he will but no chance he stays without signing a new deal, if he doesn't sign he leaves this summer as we won't let him go on a free. 

2. The poor lad had been over played into the ground! An ever present for us and how many 120mins has he done for Egypt this season? It's a miracle he's still been able to produce, even if it's at a much lower quality than you'd expect. Before January he was the best player in the league, by the time he was back from the ACONs he looked exhausted, both physically and mentally. Look at the difference in Mane after winning the ACON and qualifying for the WC, it renewed him but Salah while trying never really clicked again for the rest of the season. 

3. The slight change in role. This one might not be as obvious but without Firmino pulling the string Salah actually becomes the more creative player of the three. He stays alittle wider and deeper and joins us together more than when Bobby is doing that job. This is more apparent with Jota playing central as he plays it more like a normal striker with Salah being the link and Diaz/Mane the out ball and width. With Mane central he has been dropping deep and linking more but he's not as effective as Bobby, like how often does Mane receive the ball with his back to goal. Mane's shot especially last night was unlucky as it was a worldie save onto the post they easily could have hit the keeper and gone in. 

4. He's lost the ACONs, the league, the CL and failed to qualify for the WC due to his miss after a horrendous campaign last season. He's a global icon. The pressure on the bloke is unreal! However I do have to criticize his insistence of being after revenge against Madrid. That ghost was layed to bed against Spurs, there was no need for his focus in the build up to be about that. I'll admit I was worried he'd go in too pumped up and get sent off or something as even when Klopp/Hendo have tried to downplay it he kept insisting he wanted revenge. Redemption sure, but revenge? Didn't like it and now he's opened himself up to more grief. The video of the goal against Wolves and the Liverpool players while celebrating it are asking the fans what the City score was, the look on his face when he heard you'd turned it around. It was a mental day as a fan but imagine being involved in it. 

That's blinkered surely? The three 90+ point seasons pisses on that arguement. Or is that not an achievement for you lot either? I get winning is winning and it is the be all and end all as it's the point of the game but dismissing such a tally because we didn't win is daft. How many times have teams got more points than 97, 99, 92?? Yes last year was a disaster but look how we bounced back. 

Spurs got 71 points this year, we got 69 last. Do you see Spurs getting a whisker away from the Quadruple? When we've got the closest anyone has ever got. 

That's not taking into account winning the CL, the domestic cups and the other major finals we reached. Which the most expensively assembled team in history didn't reach even with the greatest manager of all time. 

That's just football. Klopp and Liverpool's biggest issue isn't that we're nearly men or that we've fell short more times than we liked. The simple answer is...... Manchester City. Without you lot he'd have walked multiple league titles then the conversation is completely different. He's up against the greatest side in the history of the league and the difference between three league titles and one is two bloody points. That's it. If we were sat here with that two point swing with Liverpool having two more titles nothing would be said. Yes you have them and we don't but we're talking the finest of margines, it's not like we lost in disgrace, each and every time we've battled until the end. 

Obviously you can argue any cup final defeats but they're one off games where anything can happen, and unfortunately for us it did in Kiev. We managed a win in Madrid then last night in France we fell short even though we played well, it happens. 

I'm incredibly proud of what Klopp has brought to this team. He's not only made us dream but he's allowed us to continue dreaming while delivering, unfortunately he's not delivered everything he could have but he's got us close, and alot closer than most sides. I'm not entitled, I don't demand or expect success and I appreciate it when it comes, I'm taking nothing for granted. Obviously I wish we won more to cement this era's status but I remember the dark days and you only have to look at United to see those days are only a couple of mistakes away. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer Ash. 

 

There is a lot to consider there (not that my opinion counts for anything)

I think the overall feeling in your post is one of unfortunate luck. Whether that feeling changes in time remains to be seen.

My take on the things you mention-

- Liverpool were the better side for 40 minutes last night and TC did make a number of saves. BUT, only 2 very good saves IMO. The Mane one onto the post and the late one from Salah's right foot shot. Both world class. The rest were fairly routine because they were all half chances (even the already mentioned Mane and Salah shot). Liverpool had shots, not chances. They actually created very little, it was all infront of Real who always had multiple players between shot and Goal. 

Real actually carved out much better chances. The VAR goal could easily have stood. Their goal ripped Liverpool apart with a tap in at the back stick and Dani Ceb fluffed his lines being put clean through late on. So I don't think Liverpool were unlucky last night, Real actually put on another Masterclass. 

Regarding Liverpool's (and City's) points totals recently. That just shows the lack of quality from other teams rather than Liverpool dominating. They are flat track bullies consistently beating the smaller teams (as do City) due to the ever growing financial disparity between big and small clubs. That fact is further evidenced with my earlier statement , Liverpool have failed to win ANY league game against fellow top 4 teams. Just one win would have seen them Champions. That's mentality not luck, the same as failing to score in 3 finals. Luck is too easy an excuse but when it keeps playing out the same way????

As for winning more if it hadn't been for a us 'the greatest side in the history of the premier League'. 

First, thanks for that, it's unusual for a Liverpool fan to say that, it's normally Liverpool labeled as that but their own fans just like Owen laughably did by calling them Europe's best team last night despite losing their domestic league and losing the CL final having had  UEFA conference league difficulty run in to get to the final. 

But no, this City team/squad is not the greatest the Prem has seen. We don't have a striker or left back (Mendy's own fault allegedly) and we are unbalanced. Next year we might be and 3/4 seasons ago I would have agreed with you. 

Greatness is only judged by history on success. No one will remember that City have been in the mix for trebles or quadruples for most of the last 4 or 5 years and few will remember the same of Liverpool this year. 

History remembers success and the following actually sounds harsh as I type it out but the reality is, this season-

- Liverpool have won 1 more domestic cup than Wigan did in 2013

-Liverpool have won 1 more domestic cup than Birmingham did in 2011.

 

All the stuff about players contracts, players being tired, not  qualifying for world cups, other teams being great, GK's making saves against your team all fades in time. 

The season was decent by Liverpool judged on success. No more no less. Can they move on and win the league and a cup (or multiple cups), that is the exciting bit and we will find out in 12 months time. 

I hope they maintain and improve and I hope UTD, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal also step up. Good tight championships is what we all want to see. 

 

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Go on then, I'll bite. Rank City's season. 

They had the same opportunities as Liverpool, they even managed to get the double over Chelsea. Yet they only won the league by a point? A single point after being 13 points clear. 

If you want to talk about underwhelming seasons surely this season for City is right up there? Only the one trophy. Not even close to any of the other three, considering Liverpool won 2/3 of the trophies available in England. Obviously your failures in the domestic cups and the Champions League won't be remembered, or the CL one probably will be as wow that was some way to crash out. 

Don't get me wrong if you said one wins the domestic double and one takes the league, I'd obviously want to be on the side that took the league. Yet Liverpool aren't Manchester City who lets face it are expected to dominate and favourites for the CL every year (we are one of the favourites for sure but we aren't the favourite, especially after last season). You talk about the financial difference in the league yet that still exists with us to you lot, we're bickering with Salah about £350k a week while you're paying £100m for a mascots and £500k a week to kids. You didn't get a striker or a LB because you spent £100m on a mascot. Our two left backs cost under £20m. Any combination of our front three is near enough the £105m you spent on Grealish. Who's got value for money?

Only 1-3 clubs can be successful domestically at trophy level. We both were. In prestige you edge it as you won the big one and we didn't. If we lifted big ears last night for the 7th time we would have edged it imo, but we didn't. Take the win. Yet for all the resources City have taking the title by a point and not delivering at least a final domestically or in Europe has to be underwhelming? 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Go on then, I'll bite. Rank City's season. 

They had the same opportunities as Liverpool, they even managed to get the double over Chelsea. Yet they only won the league by a point? A single point after being 13 points clear. 

If you want to talk about underwhelming seasons surely this season for City is right up there? Only the one trophy. Not even close to any of the other three, considering Liverpool won 2/3 of the trophies available in England. Obviously your failures in the domestic cups and the Champions League won't be remembered, or the CL one probably will be as wow that was some way to crash out. 

Don't get me wrong if you said one wins the domestic double and one takes the league, I'd obviously want to be on the side that took the league. Yet Liverpool aren't Manchester City who lets face it are expected to dominate and favourites for the CL every year (we are one of the favourites for sure but we aren't the favourite, especially after last season). You talk about the financial difference in the league yet that still exists with us to you lot, we're bickering with Salah about £350k a week while you're paying £100m for a mascots and £500k a week to kids. You didn't get a striker or a LB because you spent £100m on a mascot. Our two left backs cost under £20m. Any combination of our front three is near enough the £105m you spent on Grealish. Who's got value for money?

Only 1-3 clubs can be successful domestically at trophy level. We both were. In prestige you edge it as you won the big one and we didn't. If we lifted big ears last night for the 7th time we would have edged it imo, but we didn't. Take the win. Yet for all the resources City have taking the title by a point and not delivering at least a final domestically or in Europe has to be underwhelming? 

 

I think it's been par at best for City. When Real have 0 shots on goal in 90 minutes, conceding 2 in injury time is a bitter pill to swallow. Pep playing our B Team against you in the semi was a hard watch as well.

The League is obviously the big one and I like you would take that over 2 domestic cups. In a random order taking triples and doubles out of the equation my rank would be

- League

- CL and 1 other cup

-CL

-2 Domestic Cups

1 Domestic cup

 

Cities spending is just deflection by yourself who feels raw this morning so we won't spend too much time in that apart from -

£ spent for each Premer League title? Liverpool have spent way more. 

Utd and PSG are proof that £ don't equal success or utd would be league champs and PSG would be yearly CL winners. Hell RBL would be German winners and champions of the universe with their wealthy owner. 

Should we make a trophy for who spends the least, give it to Burnley or Brentford? I don't get it. 

The other red herring is the gap in points you keep mentioning. Grab a league table picture with equal games played and let's debate that. Games in hand because Liverpool abused the covid rules to call games off shouldn't be factored in. 

I think Liverpool were 8 clear with 5 games left and shit the bed a few seasons back?

 

Anyway, I didn't want this to turn into a City v Liverpool debate. I was just curious on the consensus among Liverpool fans to see if you guys continue to think you are the best thing since sliced bread which it seems is still the case bar a bit of bad luck. 

 

 

 

I'll stop banging on now. This was about Liverpool (and Real, well done to them by the way) not about Man city so I will bow out. 

Edited by billy2shots
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The "weakest Real Madrid in ages" won CL by beating PSG, Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool. 

 

Can't argue they didn't deserve that!

Also, is there something Ancelotti has yet to win?

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On 31/05/2022 at 00:02, lonfo said:

The "weakest Real Madrid in ages" won CL by beating PSG, Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool. 

 

Can't argue they didn't deserve that!

Also, is there something Ancelotti has yet to win?

English National League South.

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On 03/06/2022 at 16:22, Dai_ said:

Yes. With Chelsea.

Ahh. Thank you didnt know if he had or not.

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