Chat Gather opinions on reviewing tactic effectiveness

[rhchia]

Pardon me if there is existing discussion on the topic. I had been using Tactics that was created by other. I want to learn to setup my own tactic and review it's effectiveness. I wonder what can be starting point. I have the following idea in mind but I appreciate if anyone can shed some light and share your opinions 

 

1) choose a basic formation and tactical style and it's default setting

2) play the game in slow and extended mode to see transition play, passing, players positioning

3) using match status screen. Take note of procession, pass completed, cross completed, interception

Here comes the question

a) so I need to use a strong team to test it out or a lower league team is better

b) assuming I am not doing well in the match, what should I look out for? Players rating? Or detailed players stats as opposed of team stats in #3 that I mentioned earlier?

c) so you change team instructions first or switch role of players? 

 

Happy if this thread can rigger some discussion to exchange pointers. Pretty sure there's like-minded individuals who wishes to create his/her own tactic.

[TheShane]

I always use my own tactics. 1st season is tactic adapting acoording to squad capabilities and from second season is squad formation according to tactics. By this time I get to know who's good at what. 

When it comes to trying out new tactics I always watch extended highlights and I play TONS of friendly before season against opp onents whom I'll face in season to get more info, even though friendlies don't print full picture but I get the idea.

I personally feel match ratings can be quite misleading and I ONLY use it to praise/crit my players. I look at passes attempt, complete, key pass and same with dribbles. If a player attempts more passes he goes to Central area, and if dribbles more than wide area. More key passes means more creative role can be given and more tackles means more defensive roles. I prefer these matrix on a long run more than actual displayed stats. Mostly both suggest same thing but sometimes vary noticeably.

I've changed many player's roles using this. From prefered roles to whole positional change to other side of pitch. Initially I switch instruction while my players train for my tactic and with time we can improvise.

I also look for how my opponent is lining up to play and tweak little things, while formation depends on their quality. Like more wing based attack against narrow teams and more midfield dominance against more wide teams. I've got tactics ready for common formations like 442, 4123,4231,5221. I train my players to be able to play in every role they can so I can improvise even mid match. Now I've got 4-5 tactics saved which just need a bit tweaking and are ready to go.

Also look for the player that's against your player in game. Like I have 2st against 2cd than I'll give my stronger striker to face weaker defender. If there WB isn't as good as other one my passing focus can switch. My stronger cd will be against stronger st. More defensive fb vs their winger is very good and much more.

I prefer using stronger team as we have higher ceiling of achievement in terms of in field quality.

I'd love to hear everyone on this topic as I never copy any tactics online.

Edited March 8, 2023 by TheShane

[Meow]

On 06/03/2023 at 22:10, rhchia said:

a) so I need to use a strong team to test it out or a lower league team is better

I would say the MOST important factor is to consider whether you are underdog or not.

Strong team vs lower league is about considering the technical ability. Basically don't try anything too fancy in the lower leagues.

 

On 06/03/2023 at 22:10, rhchia said:

b) assuming I am not doing well in the match, what should I look out for? Players rating? Or detailed players stats as opposed of team stats in #3 that I mentioned earlier?

Player ratings are fine generally to look at, except for GK, CB, DMs, defensive CMs and to a smaller extent FB. The match ratings are pretty bad indicator of defensive work.

For detailed stats, I almost always looks at pass completion, aerials won vs aerial duels and interceptions. If I'm noticing many shots off target, I might look for the culprit.

 

On 06/03/2023 at 22:10, rhchia said:

c) so you change team instructions first or switch role of players? 

It depends. I'm more likely to switch roles if I have versatile players (or the right sub).

Instructions aren't all equal either. Slowing tempo when ahead is something I do often, while I rarely touch team mentality.

 

Building My Tactics

Now that your questions are answered, I just wanna share some things I do to build a tactic.

1. Identify a Spine

Look for a handful of core players to build around in the squad. It doesn't matter how optimal your tactic might be with the right players, you can only work with what you have.

2. Have Non-Negotiables

The game in general is rather lenient with what works, mostly. You'll be fine to decide you want a handful of things that are non-negotiable, then tweak the rest to get a system that works well enough.

It's better than the alternative of juggling with tweaking EVERYTHING at once. For me, my tactics always start with attacking mentality and high line or counter and normal line. The rest are blank.

3. When In Doubt, Simplify

Often when presented with a tactic that doesn't work, I see every tactical instruction is changed and often they contradict.

4. Arrange Friendlies

You need time to gather insight into tactics. Nothing baffles me more than extremely confused people don't even play their friendlies.

By the time you reach the season proper with 9-10 friendlies, you'll know what's up. Any major issues in your tactic becomes very apparent after watching multiple game highlights, without thinking too hard about what stat to look at.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Meow

[rhchia]

On 07/03/2023 at 00:32, TheShane said:

I always use my own tactics. 1st season is tactic adapting acoording to squad capabilities and from second season is squad formation according to tactics. By this time I get to know who's good at what. 

When it comes to trying out new tactics I always watch extended highlights and I play TONS of friendly before season against opp onents whom I'll face in season to get more info, even though friendlies don't print full picture but I get the idea.

I personally feel match ratings can be quite misleading and I ONLY use it to praise/crit my players. I look at passes attempt, complete, key pass and same with dribbles. If a player attempts more passes he goes to Central area, and if dribbles more than wide area. More key passes means more creative role can be given and more tackles means more defensive roles. I prefer these matrix on a long run more than actual displayed stats. Mostly both suggest same thing but sometimes vary noticeably.

I've changed many player's roles using this. From prefered roles to whole positional change to other side of pitch. Initially I switch instruction while my players train for my tactic and with time we can improvise.

I also look for how my opponent is lining up to play and tweak little things to while formation depending upon their quality. Like more wing based attack against narrow teams and more midfield dominance against more wide teams. I've got tactics ready for common formations like 442, 4123,4231,5221. I train my players to be able to play in every role they can so I can improvise even mid match. Now I've got 4-5 tactics saved which just need a bit tweaking and are ready to go.

Also look for the player that's against your player in game. Like I have 2st against 2cd than I'll give my stronger striker to face weaker defender. If there WB isn't as good as other one my passing focus can switch. My stronger cd will be against stronger st. More defensive fb in their winger is very good and much more.

I prefer using stronger team as we have higher ceiling of achievement in terms of in field quality.

I'd love to hear everyone on this topic as I never copy any tactics online.

 

amazing input buddy! I have not considered stats of my individual players vs the oponents. Definitely something to look at. i guess the in match screen you are looking at is players rating instead of match stats?

[rhchia]

16 hours ago, Meow said:

I would say the MOST important factor is to consider whether you are underdog or not.

Strong team vs lower league is about considering the technical ability. Basically don't try anything too fancy in the lower leagues.

 

Player ratings are fine generally to look at, except for GK, CB, DMs, defensive CMs and to a smaller extent FB. The match ratings are pretty bad indicator of defensive work.

For detailed stats, I almost always looks at pass completion, aerials won vs aerial duels and interceptions. If I'm noticing many shots off target, I might look for the culprit.

 

It depends. I'm more likely to switch roles if I have versatile players (or the right sub).

Instructions aren't all equal either. Slowing tempo when ahead is something I do often, while I rarely touch team mentality.

 

Building My Tactics

Now that your questions are answered, I just wanna share some things I do to build a tactic.

1. Identify a Spine

Look for a handful of core players to build around in the squad. It doesn't matter how optimal your tactic might be with the right players, you can only work with what you have.

2. Have Non-Negotiables

The game in general is rather lenient with what works, mostly. You'll be fine to decide you want a handful of things that are non-negotiable, then tweak the rest to get a system that works well enough.

It's better than the alternative of juggling with tweaking EVERYTHING at once. For me, my tactics always start with attacking mentality and high line or counter and normal line. The rest are blank.

3. When In Doubt, Simplify

Often when presented with a tactic that doesn't work, I see every tactical instruction is changed and often they contradict.

4. Arrange Friendlies

You need time to gather insight into tactics. Nothing baffles me more than extremely confused people don't even play their friendlies.

By the time you reach the season proper with 9-10 friendlies, you'll know what's up. Any major issues in your tactic becomes very apparent after watching multiple game highlights, without thinking too hard about what stat to look at.

i am one of the many who don't play or even arrange friendlies. Point taken.

For #2, are you referring to tweaking team instructions, players position or roles?

[Meow]

4 hours ago, rhchia said:

For #2, are you referring to tweaking team instructions, players position or roles?

You can have non-negotiables in everything. I'll give an example for all 3.

 

Team Instruction

Always attacking mentality when I'm better or about on par, counter when underdog.

With my other non-negotiables, I have to find a solution GIVEN Attacking Mentality, Balanced Width + Creative Freedom, Own Half Closing Down, Normal Tackling, Mixed Passing Style + Passing Focus and Short Goalkeeper Distribution.

Are there other options? Definitely, perhaps even better ones. But I've locked 8 tactical instructions, and only have to think about 5 of them. End result isn't THE BEST tactic, but often it's enough.

 

Player Position

This isn't usually a non-negotiable at the start of any save. Make a good formation based on the squad.

Then it's non-negotiable. Decided on a 433? No more AMCs. 3atb with no wingers? No more wingers.

Focus all retraining and recruitment efforts in that direction.

 

Player Roles

Left IF + WB, Right W + FB. Non-negotiable.

I like IF that cut in with the opposite foot and W that can cross with their strong foot. Left IF and Right W are both Right Footed, and the WB/FB corresponds.

Streamlines recruitment since most players are right-footed. Left-footed players are retrained to another position.

 

Disclaimer

Obviously these are examples of arbitrary rules I stick by. None are inherently good or bad, it's just easier to tweak 5 tactical instructions rather than having all 13 on the table when bottom of the league Millwall's striker tears your defense a new asshole by scoring his 1st goal of the season during your mid-season slump things aren't going well.

This principle applies not just for tactics, it boils down an infinite number of possibilities to maybe a few dozen decision patterns over a season.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Meow

[TheShane]

3 hours ago, rhchia said:

 

amazing input buddy! I have not considered stats of my individual players vs the oponents. Definitely something to look at. i guess the in match screen you are looking at is players rating instead of match stats?I 

I generally look at opponent's individual player stats when they are kinda hard to defeat. Like against ManC if they play iwb I can switch to wingers and attack from my right/their left as Walker is quick but not as dangerous with ball as joao. I've noticed many top teams don't have similar fb.

Also I don't consider match rating a good may to judge. My bbm could be putting in tons lf work and if my striker who's missed some chances scores he instantly gets 8 or above rating. Assists are underappreciated in ratings alongside defensive works. So I look at my team's stat in home/away team stat screen whichever side I'm on alongside extended highlights. And if I'm struggling I'll even look at opponent's stats mid match to see who's been dangerous.