Help Relationship between True PA and stars shown in IGE

[Cziffra]

Hi, my first time posting a separate topic here. I was wondering how are true ability stars (according to the in-game editor) related to the CA (current ability) and PA (potential ability) system, and what value do they correspond to. 

In other words, I wonder (for instance) what a 4.5 star PA means, in terms of the 0 - 200 PA system. This would be important when I seek out transfers, as I tend to avoid players with lower than 4 star potential, but also noticed that some 4 star PA players can still be really good. Does a 4.5 star PA indicate a potential within a range of certain PA values? If yes, what are they? 

[broodje kip]

If you’re talking about stars from the IGE, then it’s pretty much PA accurate. If you’re talking about stars from scouts, they vary. Sometimes accurate, sometimes not.

added 0 minutes later

Another one, you shouldn’t avoid players below 4⭐️ as players with 3.5 are considered Premier League level.

[Cziffra]

15 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

If you’re talking about stars from the IGE, then it’s pretty much PA accurate. If you’re talking about stars from scouts, they vary. Sometimes accurate, sometimes not.

added 0 minutes later

Another one, you shouldn’t avoid players below 4⭐️ as players with 3.5 are considered Premier League level.

I am aware of this. I am more interested in what PA value does a true 4 star (as shown in the IGE) correspond to. 
I have also seen some 4* players that have great stats, but generally try to include players with 4.5 star potential. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Cziffra

[broodje kip]

10 hours ago, Cziffra said:

I am aware of this. I am more interested in what PA value does a true 4 star (as shown in the IGE) correspond to. 
I have also seen some 4* players that have great stats, but generally try to include players with 4.5 star potential. 

I’m guessing around 155-169

[Scratch]

It basically goes up in 20 point increments:

0.5 stars	0-19 PA
1 stars	20-39 PA
1.5 stars	40-59 PA
2 stars	60-79 PA
2.5 stars	80-99 PA
3 stars	100-119 PA
3.5 stars	120-139 PA
4 stars	140-159 PA
4.5 stars	160-179 PA
5 stars	180-200 PA

 

[Scratch]

And yeah, further to what @broodje kip said, many EPL teams average around 3.5 stars from a CA perspective and the top ones only average 4 stars (that's based on top 25 players at club):

A lot of pretty decent players are 3.5 stars. I personally prefer the 150-160 range, as the players will be as good as you need them to be, without taking forever to reach their full potential. Anything higher than that and you probably won't max them out until for 4 or 5 years and they take forever to recover after an injury.

[Cziffra]

6 hours ago, Scratch said:

It basically goes up in 20 point increments:

0.5 stars	0-19 PA
1 stars	20-39 PA
1.5 stars	40-59 PA
2 stars	60-79 PA
2.5 stars	80-99 PA
3 stars	100-119 PA
3.5 stars	120-139 PA
4 stars	140-159 PA
4.5 stars	160-179 PA
5 stars	180-200 PA

 

Thank you for the list.  That's basically the answer I was looking for. 

Quote

6 hours ago, Scratch said:

And yeah, further to what @broodje kip said, many EPL teams average around 3.5 stars from a CA perspective and the top ones only average 4 stars (that's based on top 25 players at club):

A lot of pretty decent players are 3.5 stars. I personally prefer the 150-160 range, as the players will be as good as you need them to be, without taking forever to reach their full potential. Anything higher than that and you probably won't max them out until for 4 or 5 years and they take forever to recover after an injury.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I often noticed that while players with high potential (4.5 starts or above) grow rather quickly to 4 stars, the growth to 4.5 stars take much longer, if it ever happens. Guess I will be on the lookout for players with 4 star potential with 15+ in key positions from now on.

[hhooo]

11 hours ago, Cziffra said:

Thank you for the list.  That's basically the answer I was looking for. 

Thanks for the clarification. I often noticed that while players with high potential (4.5 starts or above) grow rather quickly to 4 stars, the growth to 4.5 stars take much longer, if it ever happens. Guess I will be on the lookout for players with 4 star potential with 15+ in key positions from now on.

The most effective striker I've ever used in FMM isn't even on the wonder kid list, he just only got stat increases exactly where he needed them. (And was almost never injured)

[Cziffra]

16 minutes ago, hhooo said:

The most effective striker I've ever used in FMM isn't even on the wonder kid list, he just only got stat increases exactly where he needed them. (And was almost never injured)

I guess it depends on the division you are in and the stats of the striker. From what I know, a CA of 150 with the right attributes can be good enough already. 

[hhooo]

7 minutes ago, Cziffra said:

I guess it depends on the division you are in and the stats of the striker. From what I know, a CA of 150 with the right attributes can be good enough already. 

Spoiler

He was 2.5 stars according to the game.

[Cziffra]

3 hours ago, hhooo said:

  Hide contents

He was 2.5 stars according to the game.

It is not possible that the player has 2.5 stars CA with these stats.

 

[JamesVilla]

4 hours ago, Cziffra said:

It is not possible that the player has 2.5 stars CA with these stats.

 

It is. If you actually look at his stats, There aren't many greens at all. 

His average stat is 13.8. Which would put him around the lower half of a top division level. 

His greens are just in the right areas for a striker and @hhooo has obviously created a tactic to get the best of him. With an aerial of 18, and similar shooting/movement, it would be quite easy with a quality team around him to hit 70+ goals a season. 

[broodje kip]

7 hours ago, Cziffra said:

It is not possible that the player has 2.5 stars CA with these stats.

 

It’s definitely possible. He’s not even that impressive overall. He just have greens at the right attributes. Someone with higher CA would have better attributes.

[Cziffra]

3 hours ago, JamesVilla said:

It is. If you actually look at his stats, There aren't many greens at all. 

His average stat is 13.8. Which would put him around the lower half of a top division level. 

His greens are just in the right areas for a striker and @hhooo has obviously created a tactic to get the best of him. With an aerial of 18, and similar shooting/movement, it would be quite easy with a quality team around him to hit 70+ goals a season. 

Yes, but if @Scratchwas correct, how is it possible that the player only has 2.5 star CA, which corresponds to a CA of lower than 100. How is that possible when his average stat is 13.8?

[JamesVilla]

7 minutes ago, Cziffra said:

Yes, but if @Scratchwas correct, how is it possible that the player only has 2.5 star CA, which corresponds to a CA of lower than 100. How is that possible when his average stat is 13.8?

Because if that player was left to the training and development of the game, he wouldn't be no where near that level. He has only reached that because he has been focused on the stats that matter for the role he needs to play. 

Take a look at his other stats, none of them are any good, the only greens are high greens in the right areas. There are very little 13/14's stats. 

Using focused training and mentoring etc, you can get a 'rubbish' player to look good. 

Also, his CA may be more than 2.5 stars, as that could just be a scout report, which we know that sometimes are a complete waste of time. 

[hhooo]

12 minutes ago, Cziffra said:

Yes, but if @Scratchwas correct, how is it possible that the player only has 2.5 star CA, which corresponds to a CA of lower than 100. How is that possible when his average stat is 13.8?

PA/CA don't add up the values of stats, otherwise even a CA 200 player would average 10 per attribute. It's a bit of a hidden and muddled system.

One part though is the stats that are most important to a players position 'cost' more PA than 'irrelevant' stats. 

Out of your CA budget, a striker getting 1 point in shooting will use as much CA as 2 points in tackling, for example, since tackling isn't a key stat for strikers. (Don't tell low technique defenders about that)

[Scratch]

Yeah, I've seen some crazy things, especially with players coming through the academy. If they have a low CA then they get a lot of updates and if that all happens with your club... then very very average players PA wise can look better than some of the top players in the game.

I had some screenshots on here somewhere of someone with a PA in the 120s or 130s that ended up looking like he was 180. And some players just come with great physicals.

Doesn't happen for every player, but can happen. Not for the AI though, only if you get them at your club young.

[Cziffra]

17 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Yeah, I've seen some crazy things, especially with players coming through the academy. If they have a low CA then they get a lot of updates and if that all happens with your club... then very very average players PA wise can look better than some of the top players in the game.

I had some screenshots on here somewhere of someone with a PA in the 120s or 130s that ended up looking like he was 180. And some players just come with great physicals.

Doesn't happen for every player, but can happen. Not for the AI though, only if you get them at your club young.

That is quite crazy indeed. I have just started another save, and it seems that the real players don't have as great stats as some players with lower PA, as those newly generated players can be trained in a more focused way. For example, some players with 160 CA does not really have as good stats as one would anticipate them to have. 

added 0 minutes later

43 minutes ago, hhooo said:

PA/CA don't add up the values of stats, otherwise even a CA 200 player would average 10 per attribute. It's a bit of a hidden and muddled system.

One part though is the stats that are most important to a players position 'cost' more PA than 'irrelevant' stats. 

Out of your CA budget, a striker getting 1 point in shooting will use as much CA as 2 points in tackling, for example, since tackling isn't a key stat for strikers. (Don't tell low technique defenders about that)

That is interesting indeed. How does technique play into all of this? For example, will any of you use a player with, say low technique (something like 6 technique)?

[Scratch]

31 minutes ago, Cziffra said:

That is quite crazy indeed. I have just started another save, and it seems that the real players don't have as great stats as some players with lower PA, as those newly generated players can be trained in a more focused way. For example, some players with 160 CA does not really have as good stats as one would anticipate them to have. 

I often prefer wonderkids over the more developed players for that very reason. The top players in the game are pretty good, but a youngster with 20 points less of PA and some good development can end up better than them. It's not every player, but more often than you think. 

Actually I was looking for a player less than 100 CA as good as hhooo's above and I don't have any in the saves I've got close to hand, but I did find an eg that highlights what you're saying here. Say you are looking for a left wing back. Probably the top player in the game is Alaba with CA of 164:

There are a couple around that level, all very expensive. all unlikely to move to anyone but a top top club. 

But look at this guy that came through my youth team:

Not quite as good, but not too far off, right? He'd fit right into most teams on the planet. And he's probably better than all but the 5 or 6 top left wing backs on the game. But how good is he CA/PA wise? Let's see:

He's only CA of 120!! And by the time he maxes out at 134 (another 3 updates), he'll be as good as Alaba.

So yeah, the game has a balance problem where it's too easy to develop youngsters. But I hope they don't fix it because that's what I'm addicted too. Oh forgot to mention above, it's not just play them in your reserves and they'll turn out great. It often helps a lot to loan them out like I've done with this guy.

[Cziffra]

4 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I often prefer wonderkids over the more developed players for that very reason. The top players in the game are pretty good, but a youngster with 20 points less of PA and some good development can end up better than them. It's not every player, but more often than you think. 

Actually I was looking for a player less than 100 CA as good as hhooo's above and I don't have any in the saves I've got close to hand, but I did find an eg that highlights what you're saying here. Say you are looking for a left wing back. Probably the top player in the game is Alaba with CA of 164:

There are a couple around that level, all very expensive. all unlikely to move to anyone but a top top club. 

But look at this guy that came through my youth team:

Not quite as good, but not too far off, right? He'd fit right into most teams on the planet. And he's probably better than all but the 5 or 6 top left wing backs on the game. But how good is he CA/PA wise? Let's see:

He's only CA of 120!! And by the time he maxes out at 134 (another 3 updates), he'll be as good as Alaba.

So yeah, the game has a balance problem where it's too easy to develop youngsters. But I hope they don't fix it because that's what I'm addicted too. Oh forgot to mention above, it's not just play them in your reserves and they'll turn out great. It often helps a lot to loan them out like I've done with this guy.

Wow that is truly crazy. But this is indeed a problem for the first few seasons, becuase at that time we don't really have enough time to see the young players develop, and therefore we have to go for more established players to steady the ship, before the young players get through. 
After this discussion, I will surely not simply discard players with a low potential, and see how they develop. Still, I don't really understand how youth players' and established players' CA differ so much, even if they have similar attributes. 

[Scratch]

17 minutes ago, Cziffra said:

Wow that is truly crazy. But this is indeed a problem for the first few seasons, becuase at that time we don't really have enough time to see the young players develop, and therefore we have to go for more established players to steady the ship, before the young players get through. 
After this discussion, I will surely not simply discard players with a low potential, and see how they develop. Still, I don't really understand how youth players' and established players' CA differ so much, even if they have similar attributes. 

I'm often playing at clubs outside the top level, like Celtic for eg (or even lower), so they can't afford the top players and even if they could, the top players wouldn't come - so I generally buy a whole team of wonderkids and just play them. I normally flirt with the sack for the first half of the season and make a late run for promotion once they've leveled up. Then dominate in the second season! 😄

Honestly I don't know what to make of players like Osborn in the screenshot above. He looks good, but which is better - a player like that, or one who looks a lot worse but has CA of 150. I tried to get Marc Vaughan the game designer to answer that (ie is CA actually used in the match engine or just to work out levelling them up?) and I didn't get a really clear answer on it. So I often ignore players like that or use them off the bench and use players I know are higher class than that (ie with the wonderkid tag in game). 

[oskarsson81]

On 26/05/2022 at 17:09, Scratch said:

I often prefer wonderkids over the more developed players for that very reason. The top players in the game are pretty good, but a youngster with 20 points less of PA and some good development can end up better than them. It's not every player, but more often than you think. 

Actually I was looking for a player less than 100 CA as good as hhooo's above and I don't have any in the saves I've got close to hand, but I did find an eg that highlights what you're saying here. Say you are looking for a left wing back. Probably the top player in the game is Alaba with CA of 164:

There are a couple around that level, all very expensive. all unlikely to move to anyone but a top top club. 

But look at this guy that came through my youth team:

Not quite as good, but not too far off, right? He'd fit right into most teams on the planet. And he's probably better than all but the 5 or 6 top left wing backs on the game. But how good is he CA/PA wise? Let's see:

He's only CA of 120!! And by the time he maxes out at 134 (another 3 updates), he'll be as good as Alaba.

So yeah, the game has a balance problem where it's too easy to develop youngsters. But I hope they don't fix it because that's what I'm addicted too. Oh forgot to mention above, it's not just play them in your reserves and they'll turn out great. It often helps a lot to loan them out like I've done with this guy.

I think that this is a problem since fmm 19 so I distrust in the CA-PA system in the game as the best way to win quickly.

Anyway, it's interesting compare CA-PA valur with scout reports. What kind of application do you use to see the CA, Scratch? 

Thank You in advance.

[Scratch]

33 minutes ago, oskarsson81 said:

What kind of application do you use to see the CA, Scratch? 

One I'm developing, almost finished now (finally), but Android only and won't be free

[TheF]

.

Edited June 12, 2022 by TheF

[TheF]

On 05/06/2022 at 16:26, Scratch said:

One I'm developing, almost finished now (finally), but Android only and won't be free

Hi! I'm exciting to download it asap. AM21 was great. I know you may not have much time but I really want to say finish it please without overwhelming you. When will it be released on GP?