Tactics The Black Hawk

[madart0130]

22 hours ago, mattyflex said:

I am getting close to mastering this tactic but I still have a problem. Every single game I give up at least one goal on a counter attack. It's almost always the same --- one of their wingers beats one of my pacey wingbacks in a one-on-one and I give up a goal from a diagonal run towards the box from about 20-25 yards out.

 

I've tried making my WBs FBs and DFBs, and I've tried making my BPDs CDs, but these haven't worked thus far. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? 

I think thats how this tactic work, in every single game I played with 3 teams at 3 stage, not about how ur wingback good is, they always make most mistake lul

[AndersJ]

On 23/11/2023 at 10:10, ministryofsillywalks said:

Hey @Black Hawk,

Long time watcher of your threads from last year - well done on such a high performing tactic!

Anything that can get Danny Welbeck to score 30 goals in a season deserves huge credit 😂

Question for you, what do you with corner setups? Mainly Defensive - I've not changed anything from default and I've started a new save to use your tactic with Newcastle.

I've noticed (not just on this save) that my defence get caught out when the opposing team have corners. Curious as to what your setups might be to help.

Thanks in advance!

Not me you are asking but i use 3 men stay back. And none of you freekick nor corner takers

[Kiraj]

Great tactic! I used it with Brighton, but unfortunately Man City had a perfect season so I finished second in my first season. However, I'm not getting as good overall ratings, maybe I'm not choosing my players well. When you say a player needs to have a certain attribute, what minimum level should be considered? 12? 14? It's quite hard to find defenders with a lot of Movement for example.

[pulgatxovcf]

It works very well, I used it with the Athletic club and it gave me good results in my 3 years (3 2 3 Een league) Cup Champion and finalist another time, Super Cup Champion and other final. And the defenders were not well positioned.😂

Now everything is correct at Borussia, and it is working much better. It would be incredible if you put tactics for fouls and corners

[Joel Lindskog]

Just gotta say this tactic is crazy.

Play Salford and has swept League 2 and League one and leads the Championship by far now.

Won the Carabao last season (beating Man City in the final) and now plays in the Europa Conference.

The team is undefeated in 125 games. (the losses under manager profile must be penalties or friendlies - can't even remeber last game lost during 90').

Should add that I have taken advanteges of loans and have had like 15 players each season on loan - but anyway - this tactic is insane!

Take a bow Black Hawk!

 

[ministryofsillywalks]

This tactic is brilliant.

Thank you too @Black Hawk for the extensive writing to understand how to get the right players, it really does make a huge difference.

I started a save as Newcastle and completely overhauled the squad with the huge budget you get. I have to admit, I was sceptical too as I lost 4 and drew 2 of my first 6 league games, but as relationships grew it kicked in and I steam rolled the Premiership.

Won the league & FA cup, beaten in the semi-finals of the Champions League by Inter.

Decided to get Messi, not knowing how he'd fare at 36 in the premiership, but he was simply brilliant:

Thanks again - looking forward to the 2nd season!

[Jed]

Best tactics, solid defence. My team is almost unbeatable 

[nico89]

I try to use this tactic for my team (Almagro. 2nd div argentina) but at best i get was 5 position in league and at tje end of season relesead. You can give me an advice to help  with my team? Thanks

[Lagom]

In real life, Almagro finished 17th out of 19 teams in their league. I'd say that finishing 5th with that team is probably overachieving. As for being sacked at the end of the season, did you tell the board you would win the league in order to receive a bigger transfer budget? That's the only reason I can think that a relegation candidate would sack a manager achieving top 5.

[nico89]

9 minutes ago, Lagom said:

In real life, Almagro finished 17th out of 19 teams in their league. I'd say that finishing 5th with that team is probably overachieving. As for being sacked at the end of the season, did you tell the board you would win the league in order to receive a bigger transfer budget? That's the only reason I can think that a relegation candidate would sack a manager achieving top 5.

Nope i pick mid teable, you can tell me how improve in the game? I wanna stay in the club but is small and dont know a tactic might work with the club, otherwise i prefer play with no top teams and dont know what tactic work better

[HudsonOfSmeg]

19 hours ago, nico89 said:

Nope i pick mid teable, you can tell me how improve in the game? I wanna stay in the club but is small and dont know a tactic might work with the club, otherwise i prefer play with no top teams and dont know what tactic work better

Sorry to be kind of obvious, but it's going to be all about quality and 'fit' of the players. If you're finding it's the same players making mistakes (especially ones leading to goals), then those are the ones you should look at replacing first. It usually has that info as a stat on the post-match summary. An easy fix might be to try getting players from higher leagues on season-long loan - 1 or 2 players can make a massive improvement to you. For example, in my recent save (in VNN) i had 5 championship players on loan - 2 of them finished 1st and 2nd in goals scored and all 5 where top of the average rating table.

The other thing that makes a big difference is player relationships (i.e., the lines between players, on the tactics screen). Players who have good relationships tend to perform MUCH better - even a weak team can completely outplay a superior side if the relationships of the whole team are strong. It can take some time for the relationship lines to show up (it helps if you try and keep the same line-ups and positions as often as possible).

[panosrodo]

Could you please upload the tactic to give it a go? Loved the presentation!Thanks in advance 🙂

[Blancos]

On 26/11/2023 at 01:45, Jydman said:

Please is anybody also experiencing this,each time I choose this tactics and I finish setting the player roles the player tactic automatically change to vertical tiki taka instead of the normal tiki taka playstyle I choosed in the first place

It's just a naming of what I call "sets of play". I think it's meant for more casual gamers who don't like to tweak every aspect on the Team Instruction one by one. Instead of tweaking those, they can just pick a set they want, and the game will arrange those for them. So, if it changes after you tweak some, don't worry too much about it. Let the game labeled your sets whatever it wants.

[Blancos]

This tactic doesn't work in my case. I hate how all the players did was just mindlessly overloading the opponent's box without giving any depth/layer as alternative spaces to strike from. Spray & pray fiesta.

 

But I'm curious about something:

If I take 1 month holiday, 4 games, this tactic worked just fine (1 loss, 3 comfortable wins).

If I tested to play it myself for 3 games, 1 loss and 2 bad/lucky wins. So, maybe the AI Assistant Manager plays a very big role in the performance?

[Lagom]

1 hour ago, Blancos said:

This tactic doesn't work in my case. I hate how all the players did was just mindlessly overloading the opponent's box without giving any depth/layer as alternative spaces to strike from. Spray & pray fiesta.

 

But I'm curious about something:

If I take 1 month holiday, 4 games, this tactic worked just fine (1 loss, 3 comfortable wins).

If I tested to play it myself for 3 games, 1 loss and 2 bad/lucky wins. So, maybe the AI Assistant Manager plays a very big role in the performance?

Holidaying doesn’t play to the tactic you’ve saved. It might show so in the game screens, but to my knowledge, it’s just a ‘randomly’ generated set of results

[Blancos]

2 hours ago, Lagom said:

Holidaying doesn’t play to the tactic you’ve saved. It might show so in the game screens, but to my knowledge, it’s just a ‘randomly’ generated set of results

Oh... I assumed that's how people did the tactics tests, because I've watched some tactics reviewers/testers in YT doing it that way.

Well... still, my live tests showed me that the tactics doesn't work that well on the pitch. I understood, 3 matches were very small data sample, and it still gives me 66% win rate (which is quite good). It's not the results itself I take consideration the most, but the manner of those wins (most goals came from dead ball situations, not open play).

[MikeF]

3 hours ago, Lagom said:

Holidaying doesn’t play to the tactic you’ve saved. It might show so in the game screens, but to my knowledge, it’s just a ‘randomly’ generated set of results

True. 

[DanEnglish]

5 hours ago, Blancos said:

Oh... I assumed that's how people did the tactics tests, because I've watched some tactics reviewers/testers in YT doing it that way.

As a heads up - when I’ve tested tactics in the past (inc. the detailed Black Hawk half-season test last year on FMM23 - with stats!) - I played every single game myself - no holidaying 👍 many others here on Vibe are the same

[DanEnglish]

On 07/12/2023 at 20:57, HudsonOfSmeg said:

The other thing that makes a big difference is player relationships (i.e., the lines between players, on the tactics screen). Players who have good relationships tend to perform MUCH better - even a weak team can completely outplay a superior side if the relationships of the whole team are strong. It can take some time for the relationship lines to show up (it helps if you try and keep the same line-ups and positions as often as possible).

Unfortunately this is not quite true. Marc V. from Sports Interacyive has confirmed that the green / red lines on the tactics screen only show whether the average ratings between those players (when they’ve played together) have been good or not. It shows the past, and doesn’t impact the future.

If your team are getting better, while using the same tactic, it’s probably due to something else - like your players’ morale or attributes improving with 1st team football

[Arczik]

How do you train a striker? Pressing forward?

[Blancos]

19 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

As a heads up - when I’ve tested tactics in the past (inc. the detailed Black Hawk half-season test last year on FMM23 - with stats!) - I played every single game myself - no holidaying 👍 many others here on Vibe are the same

Ah, gotcha 👍.

Did you influence the matches in that test? I mean, like common players (tweaking tactics here & there, doing subs, countering opponent's tactics, etc).

[Blancos]

19 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

the green / red lines on the tactics screen only show whether the average ratings between those players (when they’ve played together) have been good or not. It shows the past, and doesn’t impact the future.

I don't get it. So, does it mean that if, hypotheticaly, all players got 7 in a match, then they would get the green line between all of them next time? And what line would show if some got less and some got more rating point?

[Blancos]

9 hours ago, Arczik said:

How do you train a striker? Pressing forward?

I assume, give him the Pressing Forward as his Focus Role, and push him more by focusing his attribute training in anything he'll need as PF?

[DanEnglish]

3 hours ago, Blancos said:

Ah, gotcha 👍.

Did you influence the matches in that test? I mean, like common players (tweaking tactics here & there, doing subs, countering opponent's tactics, etc).

When I was testing tactics - then I used them ‘plug and play’ style, so:

• no subs - unless stated in the tactic’s description
• no countering of opposition tactics 
• use the editor’s fitness + morale boost (to remove these as variables in the tactics performance)
• use the same starting XI every match

However, when I’m playing FMM normally, of course I do things differently 🙂 (with subs, no boost, etc)

[DanEnglish]

3 hours ago, Blancos said:

I don't get it. So, does it mean that if, hypotheticaly, all players got 7 in a match, then they would get the green line between all of them next time? And what line would show if some got less and some got more rating point?

If your players all got average 7.5’s or 8’s in the past matches (5-20 matches perhaps?), then yes you’d get green lines between them.

Youd only get lines between players who are ‘close together’ though. In this screenshot, my IFs are too far away from the other players to get green lines 😞

[Blancos]

8 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

 

• use the editor’s fitness + morale boost (to remove these as variables in the tactics performance)

Ah yeah, you're right... I've never thought about it.

On the other hand, wouldn't it mean that we can get misperception from our tactic (especially when testing high intensity types of tactic), because our team could bombard the opponents' defense line without reservations and taking great advantage from our fitness & morale superiority over theirs (which is never the case when we play normally)?

I got the silver linings, no worries. I don't mean to judge anything. I'm just curious and wanna learn more about others' testing processes 😁✌️.

9 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

However, when I’m playing FMM normally, of course I do things differently 🙂 (with subs, no boost, etc)

Lol... Of course. I've never expected it otherwise 😄👍.

[Blancos]

9 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

If your players all got average 7.5’s or 8’s in the past matches (5-20 matches perhaps?), then yes you’d get green lines between them.

Ah so it's not near past. Got it.

To complete the understanding:

1. What if it's not all same ratings (One has 8, the next has 9, the next has 7.5, and so on)? Is that where the color codification comes in?

2. Then what's it represent for if not the better teamwork or passing lines between those players? I mean, what makes it so important that it has to be there in tactic screen for us to consider?

3. Does it mean that we better play basically the same team over and over again, and see the 2nd XI merely as spare tiers if there one or another bad thing happened to our 1st XI members?

[DanEnglish]

58 minutes ago, Blancos said:

1. What if it's not all same ratings (One has 8, the next has 9, the next has 7.5, and so on)? Is that where the color codification comes in?

Don’t know! But I’d guess that if that both players’ average rating (or all ratings) when playing together are above a certain number (e.g. 7.0 or 7.5?), then both players get the line.

59 minutes ago, Blancos said:

2. Then what's it represent for if not the better teamwork or passing lines between those players? I mean, what makes it so important that it has to be there in tactic screen for us to consider?

Er … I think it’s just an extra line to show recent form between players when the play together. And that it looks nice. That’s it. The Mobile game has a couple of these additions, which don’t actually ‘do’ anything - but are visual indicators of other things (like player traits!)

1 hour ago, Blancos said:

3. Does it mean that we better play basically the same team over and over again, and see the 2nd XI merely as spare tiers if there one or another bad thing happened to our 1st XI members?

Remember that the lines don’t mean you play better together in the future, just that they played well together in the past. So it doesn’t matter which players you play together. There is an open question about player relationships which are not based on form / green lines, but that could just be a simple morale bonus.

Would be delighted to be proved wrong in any of this - especially if Marc V from SI has stated otherwise! 🙂

[DanEnglish]

2 hours ago, Blancos said:

On the other hand, wouldn't it mean that we can get misperception from our tactic (especially when testing high intensity types of tactic), because our team could bombard the opponents' defense line without reservations and taking great advantage from our fitness & morale superiority over theirs (which is never the case when we play normally)?

Your interpretation is completely right.

When I’m comparing multiple tactics against each other - like <here> - then I’ll try to eliminate variables (morale + fitness boost, no subs, same first team, no signings).

• This doesn’t tell you how well a tactic will perform in absolute terms (it won’t say: “you’ll win the league”),
• … but it does tell you how well a tactic will perform in relative terms (you’ll score less goals than other tactics)

However I think when most people test ONE tactic here in Vibe, then they do it normally (no editor, with subs, with rotation, with signings).

[Blancos]

9 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Remember that the lines don’t mean you play better together in the future, just that they played well together in the past. So it doesn’t matter which players you play together. There is an open question about player relationships which are not based on form / green lines, but that could just be a simple morale bonus.

Would be delighted to be proved wrong in any of this - especially if Marc V from SI has stated otherwise! 🙂

Gotcha 👍.

I remember, maybe more than a decade ago, I've read an FM guide that mentioned the importance of "team gelling", and it really felt that way when I've played the players that were not used to play together.

Maybe seeing those lines and its "relationships" title, brings my nostalgic back, and naively put 2 plus 2 into 8 😤.