Player Roles - Guidance for ‘Intermediate’ Players

Player Roles
Guidance for Intermediate Players (Non-Beginners)

For Football Manager Mobile 2023 (FMM23)
 

Intro
A short series about some player roles - briefly showing ‘how they work’ in the FMM match engine.

This is also a conversation - so please feel free to share YOUR thoughts, experiences + screenshots 👍 

Contents
These are the roles I know an interesting ‘insight’ about:

1. ✅ Wingers (on ‘narrow’ width!)
2. ✅ RPs vs B2Bs (in the MC positions)
3. ✅ APs + DLPs (in the MC positions) 
4. ✅ IWBs (both in the D + DM positions)
5. BWM (as an MC in a 4231)

Also, ideally I’d like to test how a Sweeper + Libero work in the match engine, but may not have time.

 
Why?
When helping others on Vibe + Discord, I feel that I’m repeating the same points. So this aims to have one place to consolidate + explain these player role ‘insights’. 

Hope this helps you with your tactics - let’s discuss!

 
Next
Wingers!

Edited December 26, 2023 by DanEnglish

[DanEnglish]

Player Roles 01:
Wingers

Do you want your wingers to stay wide … or do you want them to act like central strikers … ?

Why: Do you know the Wingers’ special trick - particularly in a tactic with ‘narrow’ width … ? 
 

Myth?

According to the role description - Wingers should ‘hug the touch line’. But on narrow width, they act differently! 
 

Reality - Narrow Width
Possibly the most well-known ‘insight’ in this short series. 

• ❌ on narrow width, the Wingers don’t stay wide.
• ✅ instead, the Wingers move forward + inside to act like strikers (in the STLC / STRC positions!).

Examples

Spoiler

Example 1 - Narrow Width

 
Example 2 - Narrow Width

More examples / description with Gifs
<here> see experiments 1 + 3
 

So What?!
This is one of the reasons why tactics like @MarkD + @DutchTony’s ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ 442 tactics have been so successful.

• With 1 ST (e.g. a 4141), you have 3 central attackers including these two wingers … 
• With 2 STs (e.g. a 442), you have 4 central attackers to overload the opposition’s 2 or 3 center backs … 
   
• Result #A: a lot more ‘rebound’ goals scored ✅ (as have more players in the box)
• Result #B: a lot more penalties won ✅ (as have more players in the box)

Spoiler

Example 3 - Wrexham 442

 

These screenshots were from the old / original ‘Welcome to Wrexham’ tactic, which no longer is effective.  

BUT the latest ‘updated + great again’ tactic has the same winger ‘trick’ + same effect as these screenshots!
 

 

Reality - Wide Width

Don’t worry. If you want wingers who stay wide, you’ll just need to have a ‘wide’ or ‘normal’ team width. Then your wingers will (mostly) stay wide 👍 

Spoiler

Example 4 - WIDE width

Example 5 - WIDE width

… but sometimes they still come inside …

Summary
Wingers on ‘narrow’ width do NOT stay wide.

Instead, the Wingers on ‘narrow’ width drift inside + forward to become like central strikers when the team are in possession - like a STLC and STRC. 

Next
Next is the RPs vs B2Bs’ movement!

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited May 17, 2023 by DanEnglish

[P.Rahul]

So using normal width is must if u want to use winger ... Other wise they score more .. 

[DanEnglish]

33 minutes ago, P.Rahul said:

So using normal width is must if u want to use winger ... Other wise they score more .. 

Depends on how wide you want your wingers to be: 

• Either NORMAL or WIDE width is needed if you want them to stay wide. 
• Unsurprisingly - normal width is a middle option, where they stay wide, then move inside in the final third.   

For completeness sake - here’s the screenshots of NORMAL width:

Spoiler

Example 6 - NORMAL Width

• Taken from experiment 7 <here>
• The last screenshot is the surprising one where they move slightly inside.

🙂 

[Cockers2505]

So without playing Wide width, really they are still acting as IF's IMO are they not, a traditional Winger, say Ginola and Beckham of old, went down the line and then whipped it in to the box either low and hard, or high if they had a good strong and tall striker (Van Nist and Les Ferdinand) for example. My opinion is the wingers role has gone, not many wingers play like that anymore, they are all IF's or Inside wingers, Rashford, Sterling, Grealish etc.

I like the description though, it gives you a more insight on the role, maybe Wide and Winger would be better for 1K or even 2K challenges as they would be more about getting the ball in the middle than trying to score themselves.

[DanEnglish]

40 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

So without playing Wide width, really they are still acting as IF's IMO are they not, a traditional Winger, say Ginola and Beckham of old, went down the line and then whipped it in to the box either low and hard, or high if they had a good strong and tall striker (Van Nist and Les Ferdinand) for example. My opinion is the wingers role has gone, not many wingers play like that anymore, they are all IF's or Inside wingers, Rashford, Sterling, Grealish etc.

I like the description though, it gives you a more insight on the role, maybe Wide and Winger would be better for 1K or even 2K challenges as they would be more about getting the ball in the middle than trying to score themselves.

Exactly. 

If you wanted a Giggs / Ginola / Duff style 1990’s winger, then either normal or wide width is necessary (not narrow width). Agree these are more suitable for a +1k.

• Wide Width - suitable if you want your winger to ‘hug the touch line’ (to stretch the opposition defense). Also suitable for Beckham-style early crosses.  
   
• Normal Width - suitable if you want your winger to receive the ball slightly ‘further away’ from the touch line, so they have more space to dribble past the opposition FB like Giggs / Ginola.

👍 

[P.Rahul]

And what if We set creative freedom to disciplined....in my team i always get atleast 30+ crosses from winger in every match even against toughest opponent when i use run at defence and BWM-CM and A -CM mid field combo .... even with narrow width .. 

[DanEnglish]

37 minutes ago, P.Rahul said:

And what if We set creative freedom to disciplined....in my team i always get atleast 30+ crosses from winger in every match even against toughest opponent when i use run at defence and BWM-CM and A -CM mid field combo .... even with narrow width .. 

About creative freedom - I tested this on the other thread <here>:

• Creative vs Normal - see experiments 5 vs 6 - result: no difference in how wide the Wingers were.
• Disciplined - I didn't test, feel free to do so yourself 🙂 

About # crosses with wingers - I counted the # crosses by player for a half-season on the most 'updated Wrexham' 442 <here>:

• Majority crosses were done by my FBs, and my designated set piece taker - see spoiler.
• The other Winger (on narrow width) attempted an average of just 1 cross / game over that half-season.

Spoiler

Question - perhaps you can share screenshots of your tactic - plus the player stats screenshots of ~10 consecutive games - so we can see how many crosses your wingers are attempting. Cheers 🙂 

 

[1shotz]

This a really nice topic u started 👍🏽 appreciated 

[P.Rahul]

I think u should try A-cm midfielder combo  i bet u will get more crosses from wingers and if u have very good wingers than u will get more than 45 crosses per game and i always set creative freedom disciplined...nd width narrow... 1st i don't have many creative players thats why.... And how i can increase players creativity should i sign mentor for it...i never reach even 16 for creativity of midfielder.. 

 

[Cockers2505]

Did a quick test on a game between City and Liverpool for the Charity Shield.

Formation was using 2 wide Wingers, first half Bowen left and Wolf right.

Set it to Wide and use both Flanks

So first half the wingers did play out wide and because cross early is on they did put it in the box more often, as you can see 9 completed, but 22 attempted.

 

Wolf made the most from right, compared to Bowen, but is that because City play more down the right, or is it because Wolf natural position is a Winger? Thoughts?

As second half kicks off you can see them moving into their wide positions

 

I then made some subs, before that Wolf had completed only 1 other cross, where the last quarter all went down Bowen side?

 

After the subs, Maghreb left, and Silva right (note not natural wingers, Mahrez is a IF, and Silva comes as an AM.

Final stats and final score at 2-0, Silva attempted 7 crosses to Mahrez 2 

 

Total crosses was 43 attempted and only 11 complete, meaning a requirement for better wingers, or maybe take off early crosses for the next test.

All the attacking play as should went down the wings

I know a short test, but already can see Wide play and play to Flanks does make a big difference to keeping them wide and playing closer to the byline than IF’s

Thoughts?

 

 

[DanEnglish]

47 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

I know a short test, but already can see Wide play and play to Flanks does make a big difference to keeping them wide and playing closer to the byline than IF’s

Thoughts?

Nice experiment 👍 I like it.

I think (hope?) your screenshot + stats support my earlier statement that (unsurprisingly?) wingers stay wider on ‘wide’ width - right?

47 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

Wolf made the most from right, compared to Bowen, but is that because City play more down the right, or is it because Wolf natural position is a Winger? Thoughts?

Personally I’d guess this is either due to: 

• more build up play down your right side - as shown by your WBR attempting more passes than your WBL (26 vs 16 at half-time) + more passes by your MRC than your MLC (39 vs 22 at half-time).  
   
• and/or this could be due to the opposition’s player role selections. If their AML vs AMR have different roles (or their MLC vs MRC), then it may be easier for our side to build up play down that side 👍 

Edit - IFs on ‘wide’ width also stay close to the touch line (off the ball). Can’t remember which role positions itself wider, but the key difference is with the ball - IFs mostly should cut inside, while wingers mostly shouldn’t.

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited May 17, 2023 by DanEnglish

[DanEnglish]

50 minutes ago, P.Rahul said:

I think u should try A-cm midfielder combo  i bet u will get more crosses from wingers and if u have very good wingers than u will get more than 45 crosses per game and i always set creative freedom disciplined...nd width narrow... 1st i don't have many creative players thats why.... 

Can you share screenshots please 🙂 

I’d like to see your tactic, and your ‘players stats’ screenshot of (for example) 10 consecutive games. You should be able to go into your save, take ~15 screenshots + send them over. Easy! 🙂 

53 minutes ago, P.Rahul said:

And how i can increase players creativity should i sign mentor for it...i never reach even 16 for creativity of midfielder.. 

Actually - I don’t know the answer for this - maybe you can start a new forum thread asking this question + someone else can help! 🙂 

[Cockers2505]

21 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

and/or this could be due to the opposition’s player role selections. If their AML vs AMR have different roles (or their MLC vs MRC), then it may be easier for our side to build up play down that side 👍

Liverpool played the normal 4-2-2-1 with a DM and 2 IF’s

If you look at Liverpool's passing rate, you could probably make out that most was played down the left as Gakpo had most passes on the left than Salah on the right, so could that be AI determining that City should play alternate wing and play more down the right to counter act and keep away from Gakpo as the main threat?

 

The ‘Wide’ option definitely keeps the Winger out wide compared to conventional Inside Forwards, the switch of play to Bowen would have probably been from Milner being sent off as a left WB?

Another thought is Liverpool have all Right footed players beyond their Defence, so maybe AI takes this in its calculations knowing they would naturally going forward play out to their strongest foot which would be to kick right to Gakpo on the left (does that make sense), again all guesses, but more intrigued.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Cockers2505

[DanEnglish]

18 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

Liverpool played the normal 4-2-2-1 with a DM and 2 IF’s

⚠️ Ah. That’s a misunderstanding! ⚠️
 

❌ Before / After Game
If you click on the opposition’s tactic immediately before or after the match, you’ll get the ‘generic’ player roles for that tactic. 

Spoiler

Note that Salah is on the left, Gapko on the right.

 
✅ DURING Game
If you click on the opposition’s tactic DURING the game, you’ll get the ‘actual’ player roles they’re using.

Spoiler

Note how Gapko (left wing) + Salah (right wing) are swapped … edit - in your match, they were not swopped.

… then see the ‘actual’ player roles they’re using … 

… those in yellow are different to the ‘generic’ roles we saw earlier + crucially (in RED) their DL is playing as a WB, so should be easier (more space) for us to attack down that flank!

 
So the player roles are different in-match than what you see before/after match.

Makes sense? 🙂 

Edited May 17, 2023 by DanEnglish

[P.Rahul]

Right now i m not playing but i m going to start a career... Long one with the tactics i mentioned.. narrow width and A-CM Combo ...

I not able to finish goal scoring challenges ... After 4 Season i lost intrest to play further ... But this time i will complete... 

i will post screen shots soon.

[DanEnglish]

Player Roles 02:
RP vs B2B

When your team is attacking - do you know WHERE your midfielder will move towards / which area they’ll attack?

  
Myth?
The in-game image above is misleading. It suggests both roles move forward in a similar way. They don’t.
 

Reality - with no AMC
Instead, in an MLC / MRC position, the RP actually moves forward +  CENTRALLY - into the AMC area / position

 

Our Players
Using the editor - I have a whole team of players with 20s for mental and 14-15s for technical / physical attributes 

Here’s our B2B and RP for example:

Spoiler

Both have the same attributes, are two-footed + are natural DM/M/AMCs …

1st Example (Playing a 442 / 424)

Spoiler

A simple attacking 442 / 424

Look how: the B2B stays its width, the RP moves centrally, and so leaves an empty space (in red).

More examples:

 
Reality - with an AMC
But what happens if you’re playing with an AMC ahead of those two midfielders (e.g. 4231).

Does the RP still move centrally?! Spoiler: Yes.  
 

2nd Example (playing with a DMC + AMC)

Spoiler

With a midfield diamond … you’d expect our RP to take the same space as our AMC …

Below you can see:

• the B2B moves forward + stays wide - into the AMLC position (same as experiment 1). 
   
• the RP moves forward + centrally - into the AMC position (same)

The RP + AMC are taking similar positions - so the AMC moves slightly further forward to find space.

Here the RP also moves into the AMC’s space - so the AMC (with perfect 20 mentals) drops deeper to find space.

 
So What?
Perhaps an RP is great if you want to score with through balls + long shots down the center ✅ as he moves into the central AMC position.

BUT if you want to score from wingers / WBs + crosses from wide positions, then the RP in a midfield two is NOT an ideal role ❌ as he is too central to feed your wide players - the RP leaves that red space ‘empty’.

Instead - if you want lots of crosses from wide, a B2B (or CM) role is often a better choice in a central midfield two.

 
Summary

In the central midfield positions (MLC / MRC):

• the B2B moves forward + stays wide - into the AMLC position
• the RP moves forward + CENTRALLY - into the AMC position
• this leaves an empty space (in red) - useful for an inverted wide player to move into, but often not useful to feed a wide winger.

As a result - often an RP takes the same central AMC positions as an AP / AM / DLF - so you need to be cautious about playing these roles in the same tactic (it can work, but sometimes won’t).

 
Next
Edit - how APs + DLPs actually move in possession!

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited May 18, 2023 by DanEnglish

[P.Rahul]

Rp+iw combo is also best combo .... Without even decent team they crosses more than my team .. 

[DanEnglish]

34 minutes ago, P.Rahul said:

Rp+iw combo is also best combo .... Without even decent team they crosses more than my team .. 

Thanks for sharing - screenshots please 🙂 so we can see WHY that combination crosses more for you. As stated in my article above, an RP moves into central spaces, so is unlikely to make many crosses himself.

13 hours ago, P.Rahul said:

Right now i m not playing but i m going to start a career... Long one with the tactics i mentioned.. narrow width and A-CM Combo ...

Remember to select someone else to take all your set pieces (e.g. a striker) - so that corners + free kicks don’t influence / mislead the crossing stats for the two midfield combinations you mentioned so far 👍 

[P.Rahul]

My opponent uses Rp+iw combo thats why i know that because they crosses more than my team combo OF THAT TEAM A-RP BOTH IN DM POSITION which i will not test in any case  ... Yesterday i played some matches without fb or wb ... Testing tactics without fb-wb . . Only CB-BPD ... 3-4-3 ... 2 winger 2 midfielder and 3 Strikers . . 

[Cockers2505]

So thinking aloud here, if you have 2 RP, an AM/AP and IF left and right, theoretically you will have 4 players fighting just outside the 18 yard box alongside your 1 or 2 strikers leaving a big space between central midfield and your defence, so naturally your 3rd midfielder you would expect to be a DM of some kind 🤔

[DanEnglish]

34 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

So thinking aloud here, if you have 2 RP, an AM/AP and IF left and right, theoretically you will have 4 players fighting just outside the 18 yard box alongside your 1 or 2 strikers leaving a big space between central midfield and your defence, so naturally your 3rd midfielder you would expect to be a DM of some kind 🤔

Exactly. If BOTH your MCs move forward (e.g. B2B, RP, or AP roles) then you’ll have a big gap in your DM/MC area (in yellow below), which will affect your buildup play.

• This is especially true on the more attacking mentalities (control, attacking, overload) - where the B2B and RP will more often run forward.
• This is less true in more defensive mentalities (contain, defend, counter) - where your midfielders take less risks + will run forward less often.

Therefore you are right - often you will either want a more defensive midfielder (DM, Anchor, BWM, CM) … or play with one/two IWBs - to help that central buildup play 👍 like the DMC in the image below.

 

Interestingly - yes of course you can have a successful tactic with all attacking MCs + without an DM / IWB:

• like the Black Hawk tactic (with 2 B2Bs + an RP in midfield) - it builds up via the FBs/WBs on the flanks
• or your DCs play long / direct passes directly to your attacking midfielders / attackers.

Edited May 18, 2023 by DanEnglish

[Cockers2505]

5 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

Therefore you are right - often you will either want a more defensive midfielder (DM, Anchor, BWM, CM) … or play with one/two IWBs - to help that central buildup play 👍 like the DMC in the image below.

Another option which you highlighted, and works very well, is CM-BWM-CM combo which cover the middle perfectly, the 2 CM's stick left and right in the middle, where the BWM drops a little behind them to play the sweeping up role. If you have an AM or AP, they tend to stick around the outside of the 18 yard box to support your striker(s) which I am sure you will highlight soon.

[DanEnglish]

1 minute ago, Cockers2505 said:

Another option which you highlighted, and works very well, is CM-BWM-CM combo which cover the middle perfectly, the 2 CM's stick left and right in the middle, where the BWM drops a little behind them to play the sweeping up role. If you have an AM or AP, they tend to stick around the outside of the 18 yard box to support your striker(s) which I am sure you will highlight soon.

Ah yes. I should have said - “if you have ALL attacking central midfield roles (B2B, RP, AP - where they all move forward) … then you’ll often want a defensive midfielder or IWB …”

… as of course as you said, the alternative is a more balanced midfield. Yes I love the CM - ??? - CM midfield three. Often used to do it with a DLP or RP in the middle 👍 

[Cockers2505]

8 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

Ah yes. I should have said - “if you have ALL attacking central midfield roles (B2B, RP, AP - where they all move forward) … then you’ll often want a defensive midfielder or IWB …”

… as of course as you said, the alternative is a more balanced midfield. Yes I love the CM - ??? - CM midfield three. Often used to do it with a DLP or RP in the middle 👍 

For the DM or third midfield spot (CM-??-CM) - I think the Anchor role is under rated, (Sorry was meant to say but can be valuable at times) most go for the DLP, but the Anchor role is for me more for the lower leagues where the passing, decisions and technique is a lot lower than those in the higher leagues, so for the top teams I find DLP players are better for more accurate passes, a DM tackles and passes to a better more accurate player, and the BWM simply runs around trying to win the ball back and then play the simple but accurate ball, Declan Rice for example, Thoughts?

Edited May 18, 2023 by Cockers2505

[DanEnglish]

@Cockers2505 

I love the Anchor role - typically in the DMC position with non dominant teams.

Haven’t used an Anchor in the MC position yet, so not many comments there, but should be great for pushing the CMs wider in a flat midfield three to better support wide wingers.

Agree with your other points - except the BWM point - but I’ll leave that until the 4th article in this series 🙂 

Edited May 18, 2023 by DanEnglish

[Cockers2505]

2 minutes ago, DanEnglish said:

Agree with your other points - except the BWM point - but I’ll leave that until the 4th article in this series 🙂 

🤔 Always happy to be corrected and improved, only gains more knowledge !!

[DanEnglish]

Player Roles 03:
AP + DLP

When you use an AP or DLP in the central midfield positions (MLC/MC/MRC) - do you know how they really move in-game? 

Hints
The game does hint at these two roles’ movement:

Spoiler

From the in-game role description:

Quote

“The Deep-Lying Playmaker operates in the space between the defence and midfield”

Quote

“The Advanced Playmaker aims to drop in the holes between the opposition’s midfield and defense”

 
Reality - in a midfield two
You may know this - in MC positions, with no AMC/DMC blocking, the AP + DLP move vertically + CENTRALLY!

Our Players
Same as last time - our squad all have 20 mentals and 14-15 physical/technical attributes. Here’s our two playmakers:

Spoiler

 
Both have the same attributes, are two-footed + are natural DM/M/AMCs

 
Example A
A simple attacking 442 / 424 - with an AP + DLP:

Spoiler

 
See how our AP moves forward + CENTRALLY into the AMC position …

… and how our DLP moves deeper + CENTRALLY into the DMC position …

… so they often form a vertical box, which lacks width in that midfield two:

It happens ALL THE TIME when your team are in possession … 

Then is more obvious in the final third:

… the AP is in / outside the box (CENTRALLY), while the DLP is much deeper (also CENTRALLY).

 
 

 
Reality - with DMC + AMC
What about if there is a midfield diamond - will the DMC or AMC block our two playmaker’s movement … ?

Spoiler: our playmakers actually move like this:

Example B
With a midfield diamond (31411) - with an AP + DLP:

Spoiler

Do the extra AMC + DMC block our two playmakers?

<attacking towards the left>

• The AP has moved forward + central - next to our AMC. 
   
• The DLP has moved deeper but NOT centrally - next to our DMC !

 
<now attacking towards the right>

Again the two playmakers move vertically - and try to move centrally - but are a little blocked.

Interestingly:

• our AMC drifts a little wider to make space for our AP …
• but our DM does NOT drift wider to make space for our DLP - perhaps due to his Anchor role? Maybe a DM role would drift wider. 

So our playmakers actually moved like this:

 
Summary
In the MC positions - both the AP + DLP move vertically + CENTRALLY when your team are attacking.

This means an AP + DLP partnership in central midfield is extremely central ✅  but lacks width to pass to the flanks ❌

Note - if you also have a DMC, sometimes the DLP is blocked, so the DLP only moves deeper (less centrally).

If you also have an AMC, typically your AP is NOT blocked, as the AMC drifts wider to make space (if they both have good mentals - e.g. movement).

 
Next
The BWM - perhaps the most underrated role in FMM23?!

Thoughts? 🙂 

Edited May 19, 2023 by DanEnglish

[Cockers2505]

I like the fact that the DLP sits back as he should, but I find that the AP at times gets in the way of the AM, but I would guess its good for pushing players into the opponents 18 yard box to overload with players including if you have 2 IF's coming in also, and then there is the Overload instruction which would probably push the DLP and the Anchor further up the park to sit just outside the 18 yard box, mmmmm

I am very intrigued to see what the BWM highlights and how best to use, I had it with a CM either side, so is a BWM the best option or a DLP if you are not sitting with a DM behind the 3 midfielders??

[1shotz]

28 minutes ago, ericm544 said:

Really enjoyed these articles, the W and IF thread specifically is interesting and would wonder if W are currently stronger? I will test it with the V2 BlackHawk.

Let us know how it gets on 👍🏽