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DanEnglish

Creating Space in the Final Third - The Joys of an AF + IF


‘Creating Space’
in the Final Third

4116AAA1-E556-4372-9B98-29C65B60B5BB.jpeg.80bfa705f17d5de025fe94a80fa4ac77.jpeg

The Joys of an AF + IF Combination

Why? Multiple people in FMM21 + 22 have asked for help scoring more + creating better chances. You watch their highlights & there’s little space + little penetration in the final third. So here’s one ‘tactical style’ which I’m fond of and enjoy using.

Disclaimers: Other styles also work. This isn’t a super tactic. It’s just a simple way of using in-game highlights to create space + chances. Writing this once also saves me from writing it three times in different threads / PMs.


D793BF70-E770-4D4D-B4B6-FAF05E4F0E7F.jpeg.5a08dc141b8e33892be684c7518fadd3.jpeg

The Combination

What? In a simple 4231 - this uses an AF + IF combinations (who works beautifully together) plus a IW + B2B combination (one creates space for the latter).

These 2 combinations are CRITICAL for understanding how this ‘tactical style‘ creates space.


The Tactical Setup

Nothing complex here. The key point is to have short passing through the center. Plus I prefer a normal defensive line (so there is more space for fast AF / IF to run into).

Spoiler

BE6C92DB-D139-4BB7-BECA-E8DB1C8F48A5.thumb.png.741787228fedf14f6ee0586b538bd9e2.png

F5CC4C64-C8A7-4043-BB6A-BEA87BDE7E0F.thumb.png.5cb801145080039dc9ba68fa9e226544.png

A9F46368-9815-40F5-A9E9-20CAB0AE029C.thumb.png.03959111947b7b7e89969365a4e618ac.png

011BBC63-AC89-473C-837C-1CCC4172023E.thumb.png.27bfbf0ec07e580e46e82b92155aef91.png

I used Man Utd with Martial as the AF centrally + Rashford as an IF from the left flank. Most tactics ‘should’ work with a strong team, but this is about ‘seeing’ how you create space + chances in the in-game highlights.


Next

Will post in-game screenshots + examples in the next few posts.  
 

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‘Creating Space’
in the Final Third

34F78F48-7D5E-49D7-944E-F2FC023B94F1.jpeg.8d0d8e147eb07cc580b6987f5ac96db8.jpeg

This post shows in-game screenshots of examples to create space + chances.

1011D3E2-0331-40D1-A367-A074E167CEF4.jpeg.7ffb37e8fd3e0b9227461d4896c2a71e.jpeg

Here you can see two patterns - two types of space + chances which are repeatedly created by this playing style.

There’s 3 of these patterns in total. Let’s explore... 
 

Pattern #1.  
IF creates space for AF

These 3 examples are all from the 1st half of a friendly vs Southampton’s 442 formation.

All show how the IF’s movement creates space for a through ball into the AF’s run - for a 1:1 goal scoring chance.
 

Actual Example A

Spoiler

 

0925498B-90AE-42A7-B6D6-331089FCA838.thumb.png.7415266a175a9635a3e8ddb181246e02.png

Our Advanced Playmaker (AP) has the ball (white circle). You can see the IF has drifted inside from the left flank ...

0637BA82-F437-432C-9D80-3201B9F8D605.jpeg.2a39dcbd75667f5d4815aef2e51ea0ea.jpeg

... as the IF receives the ball, the opposition DRC has to push up to close down our IF ...

3F2C8038-B15C-4F04-84E1-4139AABDC7D3.jpeg.c6bf6771abdc82a670f27cdc28925777.jpeg

... this creates space for our AF to run into, perfect for a through ball ...

79DFF3B4-BAD2-4585-AA70-74A9FB98E6C4.jpeg.7589ae59191f780f96751a834387a505.jpeg

... in this example, our AF (Martial) shot straight at the opposition GK 🤦‍♂️ <face-palm>

 
Actual Example B

Spoiler

Again our AP has the ball. Note that again our IF has drifted inside + is deeper than our AF ...

1CBB4FF5-3C67-43F0-8304-D3D1DFD72BE1.jpeg.4b5fd000bcd2b7e4ee55d448f677bea7.jpeg

... with our IF receiving the ball, the opposition DRC has to step up, creating space for our AF ...

A4ABA302-6830-4D0C-B71F-4CE27F39F905.jpeg.7232b073adee4e990365c414811949c4.jpeg

... in this example, our AF had a 1:1 with the keeper / clear cut chance - but he shot wide. Urgh.


Actual Example C

Spoiler

Again, the IF has received the ball after drifting inside - with the opposition DRC again having to step forward - creating space fir the AF’s run ...

E4CEE314-3683-49D8-9E7D-1C5D6C24901E.jpeg.9ab025c4c6659574cd67b154a9f5ba59.jpeg

... these are patterns where our attackers repeatedly find space. 


Pattern #2.
AF + IW create space for B2B midfielder

From the same match as above - these all show how the AF + IW’s positioning ensure there’s a big gap for our B2B to receive a through ball on goal.

 
Actual Example D

Spoiler

Here our left-sided B2B midfielder Pogba has the ball (white circle) ... 

84F6455C-A132-463C-91F5-BCC86F6D9FFE.jpeg.6410c1573cf72d6df86b5614c2a4b3e7.jpeg

... you can see our AF + IF are both tightly marked / right next to each other - so the two opposition DCs are right next to each other also.

Plus the opposition DL stays wide to mark / cover our Inverted Winger (IW) on our right flank ...

8139EA0F-F41D-451D-81DC-634275C49E56.jpeg.9d1233324130fc93dfa609e4b45aa4af.jpeg

... this gives lots of space for our right-sided B2B midfielder to run into a through ball (red shaded area).

Annoyingly our right sided B2B was McTominay, who is the wrong player for this role, and his poor shot was blocked.

 
Actual Example E

Spoiler

Again our left-sides B2B Pogba has the ball, with both the AF and IF in central positions ...

36E5AF83-A193-435A-B3CB-CF1EFC5CAA65.jpeg.6b645ec18cfdd8d428a94669b791a921.jpeg

... with our IW keeping the opposition DL wide, there’s a huge channel for our right-sided B2B to attack, especially once the ball is played to our central AP ... 

B626FBD9-B577-4B61-B1C6-7CFA4708BBAC.jpeg.3529c3641f811452dfee2ae9979132d9.jpeg

... again McTominay has a great chance unmarked, but his shot is saved.

 
Actual Example F

Spoiler

Different build-up play, similar space. Our AP is given the ball in a central position ...

... the two opposition DCs are very narrow + clustered together, with a big space between them and the opposition DL who stays out wide ... 

8359644C-5E02-48DA-865E-76E12F0975D1.jpeg.672ba2775707d16a3ac370f007474bac.jpeg

... again our AP feeds a through ball in to that open space for our right-sided B2B midfielder to run onto.

5FAB4403-4C53-4C8F-858C-94F6C9868B6B.jpeg.f19fe8944be21e63ca36e281df00b116.jpeg

I really should have picked a different right-sided B2B. McTominay has had three good, almost identical chances - and scored none. Urgh.

 
Pattern #3.
AF creates space for IF

This only happened once in the first half, but I see it pretty regularly normally.

Here the AF drifts wide to create space for the IF (Rashford) to attack.

Real Example G

Spoiler

Our IF drifts inside + is given the ball ...

55B6E07B-0C33-4201-B336-47DD40AB53FD.jpeg.e274c26f639ce22350b59e7c7bae346f.jpeg

... the opposition DR tracks him inwards, with our AF moving into that space ... 

A80DACBA-D759-4607-8A57-55FE146E7D6E.jpeg.d0810e6d50ab8315a94b086dc0fcf006.jpeg

... the ball is passed back to our left sided B2B ...

See how our AF is moving inbetween the opposition DR + DC ...

4B1DAF79-7699-47CD-8018-61964BAF4846.jpeg.ea37a313924f19efda7573098d1efa21.jpeg

... and passed onto our IWB, who can feed the ball into our unmarked IF ...

B4B2E736-6A87-4C2C-A08A-399C33F23E88.jpeg.1623f6191545591e006834958e07387f.jpeg

... who has space as the opposition DRC tries to get back into position ...

9F0B34E2-9A8B-48C5-BA90-7F3924E15FDF.jpeg.2748b1681dfafac02965b46bfd459c1c.jpeg

... but Rashford has time + space to smash in a long shot (not a clear cut chance) from outside the box for our 1st goal and his 1st shot.


Two Patterns Together

One great aspect of asymmetrical player roles is that it allows for different types of chance creation on the left and right sides. So here we see MULTIPLE patterns together.


Final Example

88420313-11D6-48AF-B18C-A154E54AA78E.jpeg.9862d6656decd929ba655ef635cb4ba0.jpeg

Our AP has the ball centrally. He can either play the ball into the IF (whose about to get space from the AF’s movement) OR play a through ball to the B2B in the empty right-sided channel.

B05C7EBA-A83D-422E-BECA-FA39F73337B1.jpeg.95f38bbdee8a80067433ff5eb96e09f8.jpeg

Our AF drifts just wide enough to create space for our IF (Rashford) to smash in his 2nd goal. Half time: a comfortable 2:0 lead.

 
Talking Points

Spoiler
  • AF - a left footer would be ideal, as a lot of the through balls are behind the opposition DRC onto our AF’s left foot. Lukaku is wonderful for this. 
     
  • Inverted Winger - did you notice our IW (or Winger) wasn’t involved in play once?! Their entire offensive job here is as a decoy wide man, to pull the opposition FB wide.
     
  • Left Sided B2B - Pogba is a good example of what you need. He wants to come inside into his right foot + likes to play killer / through balls. A left footer (e.g. Fred) is very different and I see them flying forward to the left flank for mostly useless crosses. 
     
  • Right Sided B2B - fast, food movement, good shooting. Not McTominay.

 
Next

I will do something similar against an opposition 41221, just to show how it changes / performs when the opposition play a DMC.
 

What do you think?! 
 

Edited by DanEnglish
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7 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

‘Creating Space’
in the Final Third

34F78F48-7D5E-49D7-944E-F2FC023B94F1.jpeg.8d0d8e147eb07cc580b6987f5ac96db8.jpeg

This post shows in-game screenshots of examples to create space + chances.

1011D3E2-0331-40D1-A367-A074E167CEF4.jpeg.7ffb37e8fd3e0b9227461d4896c2a71e.jpeg

Here you can see two patterns - two types of space + chances which are repeatedly created by this playing style.

There’s 3 of these patterns in total. Let’s explore... 
 

Pattern #1.  
IF creates space for AF

These 3 examples are all from the 1st half of a friendly vs Southampton’s 442 formation.

All show how the IF’s movement creates space for a through ball into the AF’s run - for a 1:1 goal scoring chance.
 

Actual Example A

  Reveal hidden contents

 

0925498B-90AE-42A7-B6D6-331089FCA838.thumb.png.7415266a175a9635a3e8ddb181246e02.png

Our Advanced Playmaker (AP) has the ball (white circle). You can see the IF has drifted inside from the left flank ...

0637BA82-F437-432C-9D80-3201B9F8D605.jpeg.2a39dcbd75667f5d4815aef2e51ea0ea.jpeg

... as the IF receives the ball, the opposition DRC has to push up to close down our IF ...

3F2C8038-B15C-4F04-84E1-4139AABDC7D3.jpeg.c6bf6771abdc82a670f27cdc28925777.jpeg

... this creates space for our AF to run into, perfect for a through ball ...

79DFF3B4-BAD2-4585-AA70-74A9FB98E6C4.jpeg.7589ae59191f780f96751a834387a505.jpeg

... in this example, our AF (Martial) shot straight at the opposition GK 🤦‍♂️ <face-palm>

 
Actual Example B

  Reveal hidden contents

Again our AP has the ball. Note that again our IF has drifted inside + is deeper than our AF ...

1CBB4FF5-3C67-43F0-8304-D3D1DFD72BE1.jpeg.4b5fd000bcd2b7e4ee55d448f677bea7.jpeg

... with our IF receiving the ball, the opposition DRC has to step up, creating space for our AF ...

A4ABA302-6830-4D0C-B71F-4CE27F39F905.jpeg.7232b073adee4e990365c414811949c4.jpeg

... in this example, our AF had a 1:1 with the keeper / clear cut chance - but he shot wide. Urgh.


Actual Example C

  Reveal hidden contents

Again, the IF has received the ball after drifting inside - with the opposition DRC again having to step forward - creating space fir the AF’s run ...

E4CEE314-3683-49D8-9E7D-1C5D6C24901E.jpeg.9ab025c4c6659574cd67b154a9f5ba59.jpeg

... these are patterns where our attackers repeatedly find space. 


Pattern #2.
AF + IW create space for B2B midfielder

From the same match as above - these all show how the AF + IW’s positioning ensure there’s a big gap for our B2B to receive a through ball on goal.

 
Actual Example D

  Reveal hidden contents

Here our left-sided B2B midfielder Pogba has the ball (white circle) ... 

84F6455C-A132-463C-91F5-BCC86F6D9FFE.jpeg.6410c1573cf72d6df86b5614c2a4b3e7.jpeg

... you can see our AF + IF are both tightly marked / right next to each other - so the two opposition DCs are right next to each other also.

Plus the opposition DL stays wide to mark / cover our Inverted Winger (IW) on our right flank ...

8139EA0F-F41D-451D-81DC-634275C49E56.jpeg.9d1233324130fc93dfa609e4b45aa4af.jpeg

... this gives lots of space for our right-sided B2B midfielder to run into a through ball (red shaded area).

Annoyingly our right sided B2B was McTominay, who is the wrong player for this role, and his poor shot was blocked.

 
Actual Example E

  Reveal hidden contents

Again our left-sides B2B Pogba has the ball, with both the AF and IF in central positions ...

36E5AF83-A193-435A-B3CB-CF1EFC5CAA65.jpeg.6b645ec18cfdd8d428a94669b791a921.jpeg

... with our IW keeping the opposition DL wide, there’s a huge channel for our right-sided B2B to attack, especially once the ball is played to our central AP ... 

B626FBD9-B577-4B61-B1C6-7CFA4708BBAC.jpeg.3529c3641f811452dfee2ae9979132d9.jpeg

... again McTominay has a great chance unmarked, but his shot is saved.

 
Actual Example F

  Reveal hidden contents

Different build-up play, similar space. Our AP is given the ball in a central position ...

... the two opposition DCs are very narrow + clustered together, with a big space between them and the opposition DL who stays out wide ... 

8359644C-5E02-48DA-865E-76E12F0975D1.jpeg.672ba2775707d16a3ac370f007474bac.jpeg

... again our AP feeds a through ball in to that open space for our right-sided B2B midfielder to run onto.

5FAB4403-4C53-4C8F-858C-94F6C9868B6B.jpeg.f19fe8944be21e63ca36e281df00b116.jpeg

I really should have picked a different right-sided B2B. McTominay has had three good, almost identical chances - and scored none. Urgh.

 
Pattern #3.
AF creates space for IF

This only happened once in the first half, but I see it pretty regularly normally.

Here the AF drifts wide to create space for the IF (Rashford) to attack.

Real Example G

  Reveal hidden contents

Our IF drifts inside + is given the ball ...

55B6E07B-0C33-4201-B336-47DD40AB53FD.jpeg.e274c26f639ce22350b59e7c7bae346f.jpeg

... the opposition DR tracks him inwards, with our AF moving into that space ... 

A80DACBA-D759-4607-8A57-55FE146E7D6E.jpeg.d0810e6d50ab8315a94b086dc0fcf006.jpeg

... the ball is passed back to our left sided B2B ...

See how our AF is moving inbetween the opposition DR + DC ...

4B1DAF79-7699-47CD-8018-61964BAF4846.jpeg.ea37a313924f19efda7573098d1efa21.jpeg

... and passed onto our IWB, who can feed the ball into our unmarked IF ...

B4B2E736-6A87-4C2C-A08A-399C33F23E88.jpeg.1623f6191545591e006834958e07387f.jpeg

... who has space as the opposition DRC tries to get back into position ...

9F0B34E2-9A8B-48C5-BA90-7F3924E15FDF.jpeg.2748b1681dfafac02965b46bfd459c1c.jpeg

... but Rashford has time + space to smash in a long shot (not a clear cut chance) from outside the box for our 1st goal and his 1st shot.


Two Patterns Together

One great aspect of asymmetrical player roles is that it allows for different types of chance creation on the left and right sides. So here we see MULTIPLE patterns together.


Final Example

88420313-11D6-48AF-B18C-A154E54AA78E.jpeg.9862d6656decd929ba655ef635cb4ba0.jpeg

Our AP has the ball centrally. He can either play the ball into the IF (whose about to get space from the AF’s movement) OR play a through ball to the B2B in the empty right-sided channel.

B05C7EBA-A83D-422E-BECA-FA39F73337B1.jpeg.95f38bbdee8a80067433ff5eb96e09f8.jpeg

Our AF drifts just wide enough to create space for our IF (Rashford) to smash in his 2nd goal. Half time: a comfortable 2:0 lead.

 
Talking Points

  Hide contents
  • AF - a left footer would be ideal, as a lot of the through balls are behind the opposition DRC onto our AF’s left foot. Lukaku is wonderful for this. 
     
  • Inverted Winger - did you notice our IW (or Winger) wasn’t involved in play once?! Their entire offensive job here is as a decoy wide man, to pull the opposition FB wide.
     
  • Left Sided B2B - Pogba is a good example of what you need. He wants to come inside into his right foot + likes to play killer / through balls. A left footer (e.g. Fred) is very different and I see them flying forward to the left flank for mostly useless crosses. 
     
  • Right Sided B2B - fast, food movement, good shooting. Not McTominay.

 
Next

I will do something similar against an opposition 41221, just to show how it changes / performs when the opposition play a DMC.
 

What do you think?! 
 

This looks good if you have the right players I would try it really soon I would finish my test by Thursday

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5 minutes ago, deepheat83 said:

Interesting write up.

How are the results?

Good question.

Short answer, on this year’s FMM, “no idea”, haven’t completed a full season yet.

Long answer in the spoiler

Spoiler

Have been using variations of this since full fat since FM12 (inc. last years FMM) pretty happily - with tactical tweaks based on how the match engine / opposition AI has changed in each year’s version. Generally win the league with a decent team, or continental places with a smaller team. Nothing world beating, but solid.

Also I don’t use one tactic all season - I switch between 3-5 tactics depending on my available players, the opposition and (within each  match) the scoreline. So have no idea how any one tactic would perform across a season.

Lastly, I’m not really bothered about the general results (I.e. over a season). Instead I’m sharing this because (a) some people have been asking for help creating better / more chances, and (b) it may help people to watch the extended highlights in a different way - to create, find and then exploit space. Let’s see.

 
Am making screenshots now of this vs a 41221 - will write it up later - as there’s different space closed off by the opposition defence. Interesting stuff, at least for me.

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I do something similar (mine is AF, IF, IW with AP behind and in midfield one BBM and one RP) with a three at the back system I'm playing around with. Two W either side with a P up top has also worked quite well.

It's been good so far.

UqmS7ZO.jpg

0nqcBX8.jpg

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1 hour ago, Schwantz34 said:

I do something similar (mine is AF, IF, IW with AP behind and in midfield one BBM and one RP) with a three at the back system I'm playing around with. Two W either side with a P up top has also worked quite well.

It's been good so far.

Glad to hear it 👍 probably there are many people here who play something similar. Hopefully this gives others some visual insights into what about it should work & why it should work.

Yes gotta love the 2 wingers / 1 poacher variants. I can’t see your image - but two speedy wingers + an aerial ST with a great, but also two decoy wingers with a speedy creative ST also is fun to tinker with. Am curious what your setup was - will try to see your image again later on.

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@DanEnglishreally great write up! Really love the concept of the B2B as runners from deep attacking the space. I’m interested to see how it works against a back 3 as I find it significantly harder to exploit the channels against 3 at the back 

Edited by lcutini32
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‘Creating Space’
in the Final Third

61E33E29-D41F-4845-9C4D-7A12AB87A1E3.jpeg.fbf9cc7e84c4369098df9b9416f8bbe1.jpeg


Vs an Opposition DMC (41221)

In the previous post we found lots of space against an opposition 442.

Lets now see it vs an opposition 41221 - crucially with an opposition DMC who protects their back 4.

Spoiler

We are playing against a weaker Aston Villa side in a friendly with our Man Utd team on day 2 of a new save.

DC1AF9E9-A72E-4A4D-89CD-1475F15E60EA.thumb.png.d882ce083bf6594211b7b1324a8dac16.png

The only changes to our setup is Lingard as our right-sided B2B (as McTominay can’t shoot) + testing Greenwood upfront (as he’s two footed)

E84D3944-E21F-4FDB-90FF-C5921A334F12.thumb.png.c7067dd1180a92c59b4b0f2550e9317d.png

 
Patterns 1+3. 
AF + IF creating space for each other

This combination performs worse against an opposition 41221  - their more defensively-positioned central midfield three don’t give as much space to our main creators - our left sided B2B + IF.

Spoiler

There are some opportunities created in a similar way to the previous post ... usually when the opposition DMC is out of position / closing down our two midfield B2Bs.

FA8BC0BD-AE3D-4FEF-9667-DC9000EEF0D8.jpeg.e11218250d53da8e474b3b8388c0516c.jpeg

... but is usually the opposition DR + midfield three can close down our creators - without the need for their DRC to step up.

783A1C89-C6A1-4609-8628-E6429398377D.jpeg.a51dee47ca8a1b53b52e72d94f7971ac.jpeg

This means there is rarely space behind the defence for the AF / IF sown that left hand channel.


Pattern 2
AF + IW create space for B2B

This still works beautifully well  - creating multiple opportunities vs Aston Villa’s 41221 formation - going around the opposition DMC, down our right hand channel.

 
Example A

Spoiler

This shows the space down our right hand channel.

E187D831-20BF-45EC-8F51-C769C65E00EB.jpeg.548d6b41164d72335edad27002702b4a.jpeg

  • The opposition DL stays wide, protecting against our IW.
  • The two opposition DCs stay central, marking our AF + IF.
  • So there’s a big gap down that channel

Unfortunately in this case our AP didn’t play this pass, instead passing it bs k to recycle possession.

Example 2

Spoiler

Very similar to the first example, here our AP has the ball again ... 

9DB2CCB2-AB0C-4FC5-98DC-87280B353392.jpeg.1e9e8c2a3eb3988b3603323f379285fb.jpeg

... who turns + plays a beautiful through ball into that space for our B2B to exploit ...

DB4DFBE3-FF3B-40DA-BF0F-0C51346F1C63.jpeg.e92a086ef76e326e8f4b83822452c944.jpeg

... thankfully this is Lingard (not McTominay) - who shoots into the corner. 1-0.

Unfortunately Lingard isn’t that quick nor that technical (14-15 / 20), so he got closed down a bit quicker than I’d have hoped for, but still had a half chance which he converted. 

Example 3

Spoiler

This time it’s our Inverted Winger (Sancho) who provides the through ball ...

B267C41E-0917-4146-8F92-BD228CCD84DA.jpeg.7966d513010d5a3ff2c2f85ae4392690.jpeg

... our B2B midfielder (Lingard) has space to move forward with the ball ...

1E1E0037-2208-4EAD-865F-4AF15FA3128A.jpeg.408cde0971e998a8950c0ed752f49c16.jpeg

... do you notice how our B2B midfielder wasn’t tracked back by the opposition MLC ... ? ...

485E00C8-AE0F-49F0-ACFA-392BAEDFBF0C.jpeg.ce2d8e43e9fdd96fc0cc9bb9044215eb.jpeg

... our B2B Lingard shoots + scores. Nice.


“Lost Pattern”

This pattern used to work in last year’s FMM21, but I haven’t got it to work in this year’s version yet.

Our IW can play a through ball behind the opposition defence for our AF ...

6BDD9FBB-E1C0-469B-83A0-7DA17365F37F.jpeg.1c63d8cba5a2fb022b092e926bb8d80b.jpeg
 

Spoiler

... but our AF isn’t quite in the right position (a Poacher would, buy doesn’t have the same movement as an AF elsewhere) ...

... plus our IW doesn’t play the through ball. Maybe a left footer who ‘plays killer passes’? Mata was good for this in last years.

Maybe one of you will get it to work.

  
Summary

We know this works great vs an opposition back 4 with no DMC (e.g. 442) ... and now we know half of it works when the opposition has a DMC.

 
Next

One day I’ll probably revisit this game, but with a left-footed B2B (Fred) as my MLC instead of our right-footed Pogba - to show how the attacking patterns change + one way to adapt to the opposition playing a 41221. 

However first we’ll test it vs an opposition 4231 and vs it’s nemesis (a back 3).

Thoughts?
 

Edited by DanEnglish
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Well made this is, do you know where  there is any breakdowns on the IW role itself it’s my least used role, I only use it if I don’t have a naturally footed winger on that’s side and only then if I don’t have a IF, I always saw them as a wide AP that would look to cross rather than play short balls?

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21 hours ago, lcutini32 said:

I’m interested to see how it works against a back 3 as I find it significantly harder to exploit the channels against 3 at the back 

Completely agree with you. The opposition back 3 really closes down the channels, so this formation / style usually is rubbish against it. I typically change to a 3142 or 3412 instead.

41 minutes ago, YetAnotherDisplayName said:

Well made this is, do you know where  there is any breakdowns on the IW role itself it’s my least used role, I only use it if I don’t have a naturally footed winger on that’s side and only then if I don’t have a IF, I always saw them as a wide AP that would look to cross rather than play short balls?

That’s a good question which I don’t know the answer to. I use an IW as (1) a decoy winger to create discs for my B2B, IF and AF in that right hand channel, and (2) as a wider version of an AP in that position, who can play through balls into the right hand channel and behind the defence. But the latter is harder for me to get working in this years FMM. Otherwise I have no idea.

Maybe someone else can help?

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On 22/02/2022 at 12:59, DanEnglish said:

Completely agree with you. The opposition back 3 really closes down the channels, so this formation / style usually is rubbish against it. I typically change to a 3142 or 3412 instead.

That’s a good question which I don’t know the answer to. I use an IW as (1) a decoy winger to create discs for my B2B, IF and AF in that right hand channel, and (2) as a wider version of an AP in that position, who can play through balls into the right hand channel and behind the defence. But the latter is harder for me to get working in this years FMM. Otherwise I have no idea.

Maybe someone else can help?

Am starting something new this night with this tactical setup

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On 24/02/2022 at 05:24, Victor77 said:

Am starting something new this night with this tactical setup

Great. As a heads up, I should have said at the start that this tactic is not plug and play, plus it’s not a super-tactic.

It just creates nice space and chances which you can see repeatedly in the highlights - useful for people who struggle to create good chances in the final third.

The one problem which I didn’t foresee is that the AF and IF combination also seems less effective vs an opposition [edit: 41221]  - I didn’t realise this as was still scoring, just from set pieces, other chances.

However the good news is that the B2B midfielder consistently gets chances for me down that right hand channel  - vs an opposition 442, 41221 and 4231 (thankfully).

So this tactic may be useful to learn patterns from - but maybe isn’t going to be a world beater on this years FMM. Hope that clarifies things a bit more. 

—————

PS. This thread is on-hold for me which I spend my limited time on the Vibe draft league.

9CFD5031-6132-45DD-83E8-F2DB9FB636A9.png

Edited by DanEnglish
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This is great!  So interesting. I have an overpowered team and find I'm clogging up the final third, so I might try some of these ideas.

Thanks for your all your work putting it together.

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Where am i doing mistake I'm just scoring with free kicks and corners, some individual skills from Jorge and Zaniolo

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-50-41-430_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.e86cdbdff950b20de70c9c225d7c68f9.jpg

I know Ramazani is not the best pick for IW but he got the pace and technique and dribbling you knowScreenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-32-904_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.995a1901f15a55262c3ef1c832145c01.jpg

I think Richarlison is not a bad choice for a IFScreenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-28-603_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.a5d7ea193e514ac55842f8370bb0c2f7.jpg

Cristante could do the work in terms of B2B i thinkScreenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-46-918_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.c233897da73571aea1523df8c7a7d847.jpg

Here is rest of them Jorge playing AF and my man Zaniolo (goal and assist king) playing AP (I always played him AM until this season) and Gedson Fernandes like Pobga scoring some long range goals and doing some good passing

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-20-513_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.65bbd9419d3137d17e5bea421d22dc45.jpg

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-35-874_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.e1766ef272229d865903a9079cac188c.jpg

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-49-24-256_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.a5e6ecdcb332991fe4bede3c61efc761.jpg

here is my instructions

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-50-18-583_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.fca034c2635bf123fd9e076f3f48ada7.jpg

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-50-15-802_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.3a3f6b3a38e822aac932b5a562dfb00c.jpg

so here is my question

Where do I doing things wrong?

Screenshot_2022-08-09-16-50-12-983_com.sega.soccer.manager.jpg

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1 hour ago, yed4eveer said:

so here is my question

Where do I doing things wrong?

Some question for you - what's your team's performance? E.g. can you share some screenshots of your league table (e.g. are you 1st placed, but drawing a few games, or bottom half of the table losing a lot of games! e.g. are you not scoring enough, or are you conceding too many, or something else?

Some comments on your tactics / players:

  • ST - Jorge is a good choice 👍
  • Perhaps switch your IF and IW - Ramazani would be better as your left-sided IF, with his 17-18 dribbling/movement/pace, plus 15 finishing ... while Richarlison would be better as a backup left-sided IF or right-sided IW, as he only has 13-15 dribbling/moving/pace (much lower!), with the same 15 finishing. You want the better player as your IF, as he'll get more chances to score, while the worse player can be the IW, as they'll have less possession + less chances.
  • B2B - Cristante is decent, but he won't score many of his chances in that right-sided channel, as he has 12-13 for shooting, movement and pace. A more attacking B2B could be more effective for you.
  • AMC / AP - Zaniolo is a great player, but he only has 12 passing and 13 decisions/movement - perhaps you could develop a backup AMC/AP who could be even more effective with higher passing, creativity and decisions.
  • IWBs - have you tried changing one (or better - both!) of your FBs to IWBs? I think they provide better build up play from defense to your midfield.

Also was surprised to see you have a DEEP defensive line with ALL OVER pressing. You may want to consider having a more balanced line, or only closing down in your own half. Otherwise your players' pressing effectiveness isn't going to be great.

Just some thoughts 🙂 What do you think?!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DanEnglish said:

Some question for you - what's your team's performance? E.g. can you share some screenshots of your league table (e.g. are you 1st placed, but drawing a few games, or bottom half of the table losing a lot of games! e.g. are you not scoring enough, or are you conceding too many, or something else?

Some comments on your tactics / players:

  • ST - Jorge is a good choice 👍
  • Perhaps switch your IF and IW - Ramazani would be better as your left-sided IF, with his 17-18 dribbling/movement/pace, plus 15 finishing ... while Richarlison would be better as a backup left-sided IF or right-sided IW, as he only has 13-15 dribbling/moving/pace (much lower!), with the same 15 finishing. You want the better player as your IF, as he'll get more chances to score, while the worse player can be the IW, as they'll have less possession + less chances.
  • B2B - Cristante is decent, but he won't score many of his chances in that right-sided channel, as he has 12-13 for shooting, movement and pace. A more attacking B2B could be more effective for you.
  • AMC / AP - Zaniolo is a great player, but he only has 12 passing and 13 decisions/movement - perhaps you could develop a backup AMC/AP who could be even more effective with higher passing, creativity and decisions.
  • IWBs - have you tried changing one (or better - both!) of your FBs to IWBs? I think they provide better build up play from defense to your midfield.

Also was surprised to see you have a DEEP defensive line with ALL OVER pressing. You may want to consider having a more balanced line, or only closing down in your own half. Otherwise your players' pressing effectiveness isn't going to be great.

Just some thoughts 🙂 What do you think?!

My results are great as always i used to play target man with 2 IF and 1 AM and 2 CMs I won every leage but i didn't happy with results as they only 1-0 or 2-0 when i changed to this i started to get 3-0s and I'm happy with but I'm not happy with how we scoring. Only with my corner and free kick tactics Jorge on the keeper and we cross to penalty point etc. I can try changing my defensive tactics but I'm not conceding too much I'm just unhappy with how my team score. I just think about it and I'm just share same thoughts with you about Ramazani to left I just realized he has too good shooting but I can't find IW who is my team's level. Do you think Richarlison can play on the right? 

 

Here is my table and results:

Screenshot_2022-08-09-19-25-33-728_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.c951339abe4f12c6f084decb40945141.jpgScreenshot_2022-08-09-19-25-42-507_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.fdd8275752f19fa0cc9e2ea6a3468181.jpgScreenshot_2022-08-09-19-26-09-404_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.902c8a90a116a870ff4a36db0f8a79cf.jpg

I just drew an easy group if I have example Bayern in the group that would be different. All 4-0s are when I holidayed. 2-0,1-0,3-1 are the matches i played. I'm just not scoring enough and not score goals in the way I wanted I have too strong squad that they can win the league themselves without me. I just want to score more you know. Not creating a lot of chances and not scoring much.

Also should I change Cristante to left B2B? And while I don't have any defensive problems should I change to IWBs anyway?

I can't bring too much talent I got the money but league doesn't have reputation I'm trying to do something with players I already have but I'm thinking about new IW on the right.

 

Edit: I changed defensive instructions (own half, balanced, normal) and i started to concede is that normal? If I'm writing too much I'm sorry it's my first time trying another tactic 😅

Edited by yed4eveer
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Nevermind just won everything 😃

Screenshot_2022-08-10-01-23-48-204_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.257f0f68f53d86b13aa9a141a400eb76.jpg

Screenshot_2022-08-10-01-26-05-897_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.45b8f895ef9f5eab38567b518332f9c6.jpg

And fully unbeaten in all competitionsScreenshot_2022-08-10-01-26-16-154_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.e479a7c0dc930711eac256c26bfe65cd.jpg

Screenshot_2022-08-10-01-26-21-169_com_sega.soccer.manager.thumb.jpg.3a7db78ddf65955563c7a7a9cdbb8a7d.jpg

But defensive instructions you suggested didn't work for me. IWBs are good, but not effective enough as FBs as they cross and my graduate and Jorge head to goal. Other than heading I scored a lot from IW+AP+AF+IF combination. I play this mobile version since 2020 and I used to score mostly headers but this tactic changed this. For defensive instructions I went back to older one because even I select cautious they gave away penalty every time. So went back to old one. IWBs could work for others who's trying this but if you have defensive midfielders like me you don't need IWBs as they cover our own half of midfield most of the time. You can consider WB or FB especially you got a good airel striker. Not only they cross also they can give key passes to the goal most of the time. These are my experiments.

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Glad you’ve just won everything - congrats!

You are completely correct about FBs vs IWBs:

  • If you have a good aerial ST (compared to the opposition DCs), then yes FBs are great options…
  • … but If you have a poor aerial ST (Martial at Man Utd for me!), then crosses are wasted on him, so I changed to IWBs to build play from the back.   
     
  • If you have one MC (not B2B), then you don’t need the IWBs as much, as the MC is more available….
  • … but if you have TWO B2Bs, then you may want one/two IWBs, otherwise your DCs can have very few good passing options into your midfielders.

Nice results + thanks for sharing your thoughts! 🙂 

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On 09/08/2022 at 20:05, DanEnglish said:

Glad you’ve just won everything - congrats!

You are completely correct about FBs vs IWBs:

  • If you have a good aerial ST (compared to the opposition DCs), then yes FBs are great options…
  • … but If you have a poor aerial ST (Martial at Man Utd for me!), then crosses are wasted on him, so I changed to IWBs to build play from the back.   
     
  • If you have one MC (not B2B), then you don’t need the IWBs as much, as the MC is more available….
  • … but if you have TWO B2Bs, then you may want one/two IWBs, otherwise your DCs can have very few good passing options into your midfielders.

Nice results + thanks for sharing your thoughts! 🙂 

I'm doing a small study on the differences in movement and usage of space between a RP and a BBM. Something I noticed is that they tend to have the same position skills. Such as "plays through balls." The difference in desired attributes is massive though. 

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2 hours ago, AlphaSeph said:

I'm doing a small study on the differences in movement and usage of space between a RP and a BBM

Nice! When you are finished, it would be lovely to see your results.

From memory, I think that in a midfield two (like a 442), the RP drifts inwards on defensive mentalities (into the central DMC position) and drifts inwards on attacking mentalities (into the central AMC position). Whereas the B2B doesn’t drift inwards at all - so is able to attack those gaps in the half spaces. Don’t have conclusive proof, but it was my learning from my small experiments.

Would be great to hear your thoughts on that 🙂 

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What roles will be suitable for LCM if I want him to stay back in attack for more defensive cover but still provide good passes?  And I think it is better to  change FB for LB to support IF.

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3 hours ago, Amtrax said:

What roles will be suitable for LCM if I want him to stay back in attack for more defensive cover but still provide good passes?  And I think it is better to  change FB for LB to support IF.

Absolutely you can 👍 I’ve done the same, it looks great, but I’ve struggled to score with it. Maybe it’ll work for you … ?

  • I tried with McTominay as a CM (MLC), Shaw as FB (DL), and Ronaldo as the AF (also tried as a P and TM) …
  • … the MLC was involved nicely in the play the DL crossed a lot from the left flank but almost all the crosses were unsuccessful 🔻
Spoiler
  • If you play with a FB / DL, then he’ll stay wider and he’ll probably cross more into the box.
  • This is good only if you have an aerially strong AF (vs opposition DCs) otherwise many of those crosses will be unsuccessful / wasted.
  • If you don’t have a left sided IWB, then you can change your MLC to a CM (or theoretically a DLP?!). The CM won’t be that creative, but links play nicely.

 
With this setup, for a while I had a record in the record store for ‘most crosses without leading to a goal in one game’ 😞 as Shaw (wing back) + Sancho (changed to a Winger) tried unsuccessfully to cross their way to Ronaldo vs a narrow 10 men Newcastle. Urgh.

This setup you suggested is nice, it does create crosses, just your ST needs to be aerially BETTER than the opposition DCs. Good luck! 🙂 

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On 28/08/2022 at 19:10, DanEnglish said:

Nice! When you are finished, it would be lovely to see your results.

From memory, I think that in a midfield two (like a 442), the RP drifts inwards on defensive mentalities (into the central DMC position) and drifts inwards on attacking mentalities (into the central AMC position). Whereas the B2B doesn’t drift inwards at all - so is able to attack those gaps in the half spaces. Don’t have conclusive proof, but it was my learning from my small experiments.

Would be great to hear your thoughts on that 🙂 

The RP roams far more than the BBM does. The movement isn't just vertical but is much more lateral and can become a liability defensively. 

I've tested using this combination along with a DMC (DLP or DM) with back 3 and no wing backs. Predictably, the back 3 were overrun by equal competition. I did have success though taking the AMR and making them a DMC with the DR as a WB. 

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