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Guides/Tips FM21 Mobile Wonderkids Complete List

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· Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, kowak said:

Any chance of this list getting a winter update?

Hopefully they'll update the list (cc @Putzy ), but in the meantime, here are some notes I dropped in the General Discussion thread in case it helps:

Quote

If you want to use Layton Stewart, best to start the save before you update. Poor lad lost 30 points of PA... And some of you will be pleased to know that many of my usual crew have lost a little: Pellegri, Esposito, Sargent, all down. I guess I will have to find new strikers after all! Though Esposito is still fairly good. 

Plenty have improved though. Hudson Odoi, Moriba, Pedri, Pellistri, Lainez, Badji.

And: 

and:

 

Edited by Scratch

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So the second part of the Winter update is now out and the DB has changed again. Some highlights:

  • Moukou improved from very very good (low 5 star), to astounding (high 5 star).
  • Joao Pedro improved from low 4.5 star to high 4.5 star.
  • Musiala improved again - he's gone from low 4.5 star, to high 4.5 star, to high 4 star, and back to high 4.5 star. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Gvardiol has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Bellingham has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Daan Dierckx has gone from low 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Layton Stewart has rebounded (mid 4.5 star to low 4 star, now back to low 4.5 star).

I'll add Pellegri dropped further and is no longer anywhere near top notch 🙁. Hornby dropped down to the same level. Vignato dropped to this level. Sargent improved slightly, but still not as good as he was in the first version. Badji is still okay, but lost 13 points. 

I could keep going, but need to leave it there.

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1 minute ago, Scratch said:

So the second part of the Winter update is now out and the DB has changed again. Some highlights:

  • Moukou improved from very very good (low 5 star), to astounding (high 5 star).
  • Joao Pedro improved from low 4.5 star to high 4.5 star.
  • Musiala improved again - he's gone from low 4.5 star, to high 4.5 star, to high 4 star, and back to high 4.5 star. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Gvardiol has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Bellingham has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Daan Dierckx has gone from low 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Layton Stewart has rebounded (mid 4.5 star to low 4 star, now back to low 4.5 star).

I'll add Pellegri dropped further and is no longer anywhere near top notch 🙁. Hornby dropped down to the same level. Vignato dropped to this level. Sargent improved slightly, but still not as good as he was in the first version. Badji is still okay, but lost 13 points. 

I could keep going, but need to leave it there.

They added Cole Palmer from Man City too! He starts with a great 15 technique and blue in almost every important attributes for a Treq.

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1 hour ago, broodje kip said:

They added Cole Palmer from Man City too! He starts with a great 15 technique and blue in almost every important attributes for a Treq.

So... they added him in DB version 2128 (the Winter Update), but they removed him again in DB version 2129 (the Winter 2 update with Russia and China, released yesterday). So his stay was shortlived... 🙁

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4 minutes ago, Scratch said:

So... they added him in DB version 2128 (the Winter Update), but they removed him again in DB version 2129 (the Winter 2 update with Russia and China, released yesterday). So his stay was shortlived... 🙁

That’s... heartbreaking 

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1 minute ago, broodje kip said:

That’s... heartbreaking 

Yeah... I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see him in the DB itself (but I can see him inthe 2128 version) or in a save I just started.

I really don't get what they do with the DB, the Musiala thing is crazy and lots of young players are similiar, jumping all over the place.

I'm starting to suspect that they take the full FM DB and then generate the FMM DB from that, and at that point the youngsters get a random PA based on the FM DB value. So maybe Moukokou is -9 (or whatever) in FM, then when they generate the FMM DB, he randomly generates to a PA number based on that (184 one time, 198 another time), then that number goes into the FMM DB, then when you start a new save game it randomly generates on that. So it's actually double random!

Not sure I explained that properly, or if that's what's happening, but it would explain why the PA values in the DB jump around so much...

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46 minutes ago, Scratch said:

I'm starting to suspect that they take the full FM DB and then generate the FMM DB from that, and at that point the youngsters get a random PA based on the FM DB value. So maybe Moukokou is -9 (or whatever) in FM, then when they generate the FMM DB, he randomly generates to a PA number based on that (184 one time, 198 another time), then that number goes into the FMM DB, then when you start a new save game it randomly generates on that. So it's actually double random

I think that really is the way. Some youngsters got a negative PA which means sometimes they can have PA slightly higher/lower than their base one. Considering both Moukoko and Camavinga are the only two players with -10 PA (range of 180-200) not -9 (range of 160-169), they are the few to be able to start with a 200 PA in a save but they often starts with their base one. I often see Moukoko with 184 and Camavinga with 180 so I assume those are their base one.

Musiala had -95 (170-200 range) before but now downgraded to -9 (range of 160-169) sadly ☹️. I guess I started my career at the right time.

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28 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

I think that really is the way. Some youngsters got a negative PA which means sometimes they can have PA slightly higher/lower than their base one. Considering both Moukoko and Camavinga are the only two players with -10 PA (range of 180-200) not -9 (range of 160-169), they are the few to be able to start with a 200 PA in a save but they often starts with their base one. I often see Moukoko with 184 and Camavinga with 180 so I assume those are their base one.

Musiala had -95 (170-200 range) before but now downgraded to -9 (range of 160-169) sadly ☹️. I guess I started my career at the right time.

Yeah. When I pulled apart the FMM database files, I was expecting to find values like -10, like the FM database has. But FMM actually has a 0 to 200 value in the DB files.

So in DB version 2128 Mokoukou had 184, in version 2129 it's 198. Both are consistent with the -10 (which is what makes me think it's generated based on that), but FMM looks to be actually using that value as the base, rather than the -10. Or at least it has those values in there and I can't find the -10 stored anywhere, so I'm assuming it uses that.

Anyway, Mokoukou is a bad example, because like you pointed out, he seems to generate with the stored DB value every time, rather than having a random PA generated based on that. That seems to happen for a few high-profile youngsters like him and Camavinga, but most young players have the save file PA generated based on the DB one (either up a little or down a little).

It's also fascinating, and I wish I knew exactly what was happening.

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1 minute ago, Scratch said:

Yeah. When I pulled apart the FMM database files, I was expecting to find values like -10, like the FM database has. But FMM actually has a 0 to 200 value in the DB files.

So in DB version 2128 Mokoukou had 184, in version 2129 it's 198. Both are consistent with the -10 (which is what makes me think it's generated based on that), but FMM looks to be actually using that value as the base, rather than the -10. Or at least it has those values in there and I can't find the -10 stored anywhere, so I'm assuming it uses that.

Anyway, Mokoukou is a bad example, because like you pointed out, he seems to generate with the stored DB value every time, rather than having a random PA generated based on that. That seems to happen for a few high-profile youngsters like him and Camavinga, but most young players have the save file PA generated based on the DB one (either up a little or down a little).

It's also fascinating, and I wish I knew exactly what was happening.

The only one I often find very random is Gio Reyna. In one save he got 190 PA and in another he got 170. I tend to avoid him because of that 😕

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6 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

The only one I often find very random is Gio Reyna. In one save he got 190 PA and in another he got 170. I tend to avoid him because of that 😕

170 is still very good. Haven't played a cheat career for a while, but Esposito normally generates in the 160s or maybe low 170s and turns out phenomenal - partly because he starts with a low CA and has lot of updates.

I think I actually prefer players in the 170 range rather than 190 these days anyway. They are still top-class, and they reach their max much more quickly. I've had players in the 190s who didn't reach their max until they were 28 years old! And everytime they get injured, it takes longer for them to get back to their top than a 170 player.

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Just now, Scratch said:

170 is still very good. Haven't played a cheat career for a while, but Esposito normally generates in the 160s or maybe low 170s and turns out phenomenal - partly because he starts with a low CA and has lot of updates.

I think I actually prefer players in the 170 range rather than 190 these days anyway. They are still top-class, and they reach their max much more quickly. I've had players in the 190s who didn't reach their max until they were 28 years old! And everytime they get injured, it takes longer for them to get back to their top than a 170 player.

Yeah my Messi regen still haven’t reach his full potential yet and not entirely ready to play werk in week out while some of other regens I have no idea whose had already been top class and ready for the first team 

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5 hours ago, Scratch said:

So the second part of the Winter update is now out and the DB has changed again. Some highlights:

  • Moukou improved from very very good (low 5 star), to astounding (high 5 star).
  • Joao Pedro improved from low 4.5 star to high 4.5 star.
  • Musiala improved again - he's gone from low 4.5 star, to high 4.5 star, to high 4 star, and back to high 4.5 star. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Gvardiol has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Bellingham has gone from high 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Daan Dierckx has gone from low 4 star to mid 4.5 star.
  • Layton Stewart has rebounded (mid 4.5 star to low 4 star, now back to low 4.5 star).

I'll add Pellegri dropped further and is no longer anywhere near top notch 🙁. Hornby dropped down to the same level. Vignato dropped to this level. Sargent improved slightly, but still not as good as he was in the first version. Badji is still okay, but lost 13 points. 

I could keep going, but need to leave it there.

Did they change Musiala nationality to German ? I know he made switch in real life but he would be waste not getting in any FMM international tournaments.. 

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1 minute ago, DIRECTFX said:

Did they change Musiala nationality to German ? I know he made switch in real life but he would be waste not getting in any FMM international tournaments.. 

Even if they did, I'm sure his second nationality would be English. As long as he doesn't refuse to play for them it should be fine.

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22 minutes ago, DIRECTFX said:

Did they change Musiala nationality to German ? I know he made switch in real life but he would be waste not getting in any FMM international tournaments.. 

Yep, Germany as his main nation and England as his second nationality (as @Dai_ predicted). 

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Does anyone know how many players not on this list have the potential to get extremely high PA? For example, Alessio Rosa, from Atalanta reserves, became clearly one of the best strikers in the game in one of my saves, but is only ever rated around 2.5 to 3 stars by coaches in game when I start a new save. I haven't actually tried to develop him multiple times (when he became incredible it was just by bumming around on loan for a few years) but it seems weird to have someone who was so good only be given middle of the road evaluations. 

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1 minute ago, hhooo said:

Does anyone know how many players not on this list have the potential to get extremely high PA? For example, Alessio Rosa, from Atalanta reserves, became clearly one of the best strikers in the game in one of my saves, but is only ever rated around 2.5 to 3 stars by coaches in game when I start a new save. I haven't actually tried to develop him multiple times (when he became incredible it was just by bumming around on loan for a few years) but it seems weird to have someone who was so good only be given middle of the road evaluations. 

Camavinga, de Ligt, Reyna, Fati, Moriba, Pedri, Haaland, Demir, Bastoni, Saka, Elmas, Gravenberch, Szoboszlai, Alph Davies, Miranda, Nuno Mendes, Greenwood, Isak, Parrott, Fabio Silva, Zirkzee and Wamangituka.

I would include Moukoko but he’s not in the list.

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4 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

Camavinga, de Ligt, Reyna, Fati, Moriba, Pedri, Haaland, Demir, Bastoni, Saka, Elmas, Gravenberch, Szoboszlai, Alph Davies, Miranda, Nuno Mendes, Greenwood, Isak, Parrott, Fabio Silva, Zirkzee and Wamangituka.

I would include Moukoko but he’s not in the list.

But those guys are all on the wonderkid list? I meant players who are not wonderkids, but could still become as good as them sometimes. 

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56 minutes ago, hhooo said:

But those guys are all on the wonderkid list? I meant players who are not wonderkids, but could still become as good as them sometimes. 

If we’re talking about u-21, there’s Felix, Foden, Mbappe, Havertz and so on but not sure about u-20. I know Musiala and Moukoko aren’t on the list. Probably even Matthew Hoppe too.

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· Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, hhooo said:

Does anyone know how many players not on this list have the potential to get extremely high PA? For example, Alessio Rosa, from Atalanta reserves, became clearly one of the best strikers in the game in one of my saves, but is only ever rated around 2.5 to 3 stars by coaches in game when I start a new save. I haven't actually tried to develop him multiple times (when he became incredible it was just by bumming around on loan for a few years) but it seems weird to have someone who was so good only be given middle of the road evaluations. 

Rosa currently has a default PA that is high 3.5 stars (real stars, not the staff ones that aren't accurate). I guess he'd mostly generate either in the mid to top 3.5 star range, or in the low 4 star range (where 3.5 star = 120 to 139 PA and 4 star = 140 to 159).

So he's not that great, when compared to the players on the list. That said, Pellegri has dropped a long way in recent versions and is now only 2 points above him. 

Despite that, he'll probably turn out pretty good, because his starting CA is pretty low and he should get a fair number of updates (11 if he generates with this default PA). So his attributes could end up looking pretty good, especially if you get a save where he generates a little higher than default.

I know not everyone likes knowing the real PA, so I talked in stars above, but here's the details if you want to know: 

Spoiler

Rosa's starting PA in the latest version (Winter take 2 with Russia and China added) is 87, and his default PA is 139. 

EDIT: Forgot to say, also, because his PA will be not that high, he'll max out and look pretty good fairly quickly (unless you are lower leagues or something), whereas Messi's regen might not max out until he's 28 or something. 

Edited by Scratch

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2 hours ago, Scratch said:

Rosa currently has a default PA that is high 3.5 stars (real stars, not the staff ones that aren't accurate). I guess he'd mostly generate either in the mid to top 3.5 star range, or in the low 4 star range (where 3.5 star = 120 to 139 PA and 4 star = 140 to 159).

So he's not that great, when compared to the players on the list. That said, Pellegri has dropped a long way in recent versions and is now only 2 points above him. 

Despite that, he'll probably turn out pretty good, because his starting CA is pretty low and he should get a fair number of updates (11 if he generates with this default PA). So his attributes could end up looking pretty good, especially if you get a save where he generates a little higher than default.

I know not everyone likes knowing the real PA, so I talked in stars above, but here's the details if you want to know: 

  Hide contents

Rosa's starting PA in the latest version (Winter take 2 with Russia and China added) is 87, and his default PA is 139. 

EDIT: Forgot to say, also, because his PA will be not that high, he'll max out and look pretty good fairly quickly (unless you are lower leagues or something), whereas Messi's regen might not max out until he's 28 or something. 

I've never looked into it, but it's there a guide as to what those ca/pa numbers actually mean? Like how does 139 or 159 actually map out in game? I can confirm it's not adding up the total of their attributes, but I don't know if it's only a select number of attributes or what that number actually consists of. 

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· Posted (edited)

sorry, this posted on a browser restart for some reason, wrote it 24 hours ago

Edited by SK15Kev
not relevant

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1 hour ago, hhooo said:

I've never looked into it, but it's there a guide as to what those ca/pa numbers actually mean? Like how does 139 or 159 actually map out in game? I can confirm it's not adding up the total of their attributes, but I don't know if it's only a select number of attributes or what that number actually consists of. 

I believe you can’t. First, because we can’t see the hidden attributes and second, there’s a specific calculation whether which is more important and which is not. So only SI staffs know aadly ☹️

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8 hours ago, hhooo said:

I've never looked into it, but it's there a guide as to what those ca/pa numbers actually mean? Like how does 139 or 159 actually map out in game? I can confirm it's not adding up the total of their attributes, but I don't know if it's only a select number of attributes or what that number actually consists of. 

Yeah, like @broodje kip said, we just don't know.

What we do know is that it's a value between 1 and 200 and the larger the number the better! And when a player has a development update, it uses up 5 points of the CA/PA gap. So if they have a CA of 120 and a PA of 150, then after an update their CA will be 125. And they keep updating until they max out. Occasionally they have bigger updates which 'cost' 10 or even 15 'points' and they can get improvements outside that, from mentoring or working with a coach, or sometimes just for their birthday, and those don't use up any points. 

Not sure I've explained that properly.

Anyway, I've seen players with a PA of 130 look better than one with a PA of 170 simply because they started with a better base and their development was better. So it's probably better not to overthink it - generally the higher the PA the better, but really you're best off to judge a player by his attributes and how he performs.

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30 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Yeah, like @broodje kip said, we just don't know.

What we do know is that it's a value between 1 and 200 and the larger the number the better! And when a player has a development update, it uses up 5 points of the CA/PA gap. So if they have a CA of 120 and a PA of 150, then after an update their CA will be 125. And they keep updating until they max out. Occasionally they have bigger updates which 'cost' 10 or even 15 'points' and they can get improvements outside that, from mentoring or working with a coach, or sometimes just for their birthday, and those don't use up any points. 

Not sure I've explained that properly.

Anyway, I've seen players with a PA of 130 look better than one with a PA of 170 simply because they started with a better base and their development was better. So it's probably better not to overthink it - generally the higher the PA the better, but really you're best off to judge a player by his attributes and how he performs.

That, combined with another post about full fat FM I read do a good job illustrating it. Apparently attributes are weighted based on a player's position, such that a point of shooting 'costs' more PA than a point of positioning for a striker, for example. This may explain why retraining players at new positions feels like it gets them to develop faster, since they are training stats that 'cost' less PA to upgrade, and they will probably end up with more total attribute points that way. 

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Fully recommend Alejandro Balde from Barca. Bought him for Sheffield Wednesday for £5.5 million then took him to Everton with me and he's now a world class player worth £90 million and only 20 years old!! Can play full back, wing back, wide midfield and winger on both wings.

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18 hours ago, the_ginger_one said:

Fully recommend Alejandro Balde from Barca. Bought him for Sheffield Wednesday for £5.5 million then took him to Everton with me and he's now a world class player worth £90 million and only 20 years old!! Can play full back, wing back, wide midfield and winger on both wings.

Did you train him on medium or high ? Did you train all those positions ? Did he spend any time on loan ? 

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Please can someone’s show me Ünüvar in the future ??

 

 

 

 

his rating at the beginning and later in the game please 

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On 29/03/2021 at 09:06, the_ginger_one said:

Fully recommend Alejandro Balde from Barca. Bought him for Sheffield Wednesday for £5.5 million then took him to Everton with me and he's now a world class player worth £90 million and only 20 years old!! Can play full back, wing back, wide midfield and winger on both wings.

Show me his rating please 

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