Chat Picking My Captain Based On..

[BatiGoal]

Just an opportunity for a chat.. 

Attributes:

• Age
• Leadership
• Decisions
• Teamwork
• Position on field

We know certain attributes make great captains, as well as other factors. Without going into detail for each one, I did so in this article for the interested, but the above is basically what we should be looking for/at when selecting captains for our teams. 

Coach Report:

• Positives:
• Natural leader on the pitch
• Leads by example on the pitch
• An intelligent player
• Team player
• Negatives:
• Struggles in big matches
• Selfish player

I honestly don't often check for these other than the Natural Leader one. But shouldn't we? I've had 18-20 Leadership players who are selfish and tend to struggle in big matches. Surely those mental traits might still make good but no great captains?

Player Personal:

• Thinks some dude is an inspired leader

Spoiler

And finally this one. As I said, I used to look at attributes only and not so much at Coach Reports. But seeing the above personal player note for 5 of my starting players, nearly half my first 11, I think I may have to rethink my captain selection process. The player in question, Coelho (leadership 16), was only 4th pick in my original list for Captains based on attributes and loosely on Coach Report. But after seeing this I'm making him my number 1.... and doing very well so far in terms of personal AvR and entire team performances/results. 

 

I'm not interested in poll numbers, so none included. Numbers only tell half the story, I'm more interested in your thoughts. Picking your captain based on..

1. Captain attributes
2. Coach reports
3. Personal player notes
4. Combo of the above
5. None. Assistant picks

Discuss..

[Mr Tree]

Interesting... I lazily just do it based on Leadership, but I rarely give it to a new signing... That's about all the thought I put into it... But will have a look at my current squad and see if anyone stands out like you say

[FuddledFox]

I follow the lazy route as well and it’s simply my players with the highest leadership that are the captains. The only real thought I put into it is that I make they are at least players that will feature in a lot of games so if I had a young or older player with high leadership but he was unlikely to play very often I would pick someone else even if there leadership was lower.

[BatiGoal]

2 hours ago, Mr Tree said:

Interesting... I lazily just do it based on Leadership, but I rarely give it to a new signing

Right now I have 3 experienced players/starters with Leadership 19 and this Coelho guy I bought two seasons ago with 16, initially 4th in the pecking order. But like I said, almost half the team sees him as an inspired leader so would be foolish not to appoint him. 

I understand the new signing pov, not giving extra responsibilities and pressure while they're settling into the team and before the adapting to playing style message disappears. 

18 minutes ago, Foxy said:

if I had a young or older player with high leadership but he was unlikely to play very often I would pick someone else even if there leadership was lower.

Good point, I take non-starters out of the equation as well.

I just checked a few of my high leadership candidates and one of them sports this tends to struggle in big games thing. How odd would it be to appoint your captain with this negative trait. How much of this is true is a different question, but for my own realism of the game I can't give him the Captain's armband after seeing that message. He's out!

[Cockers2505]

At times I don't select one, I let the AI select one, so at times I can have a youth player being captain, I personally (my opinion) don't really see much in attitude change within each game regardless of who is captain? I have realised that some players will just be crap regardless of their attributes, just like the real game, example:

Man Utd - Plenty of talent, but most new players after Ferguson era was deemed to be the next GOD, but turned out to be shite! Pogba, Sanchez, Fred etc etc but they have been captain as some stage, so why can't a youth do the role, Grealish for example? 24 years old and Captain already

Youngest Captains In Football

• Fernando Torres – 19 Years Old. ...
• Aaron Ramsey – 20 Years Old. ...
• Francesco Totti – 21 years old. ...
• Raphael Varane – 21 Years Old. ...
• Neymar – 22 Years Old. ...

[BatiGoal]

54 minutes ago, Cockers2505 said:

At times I don't select one, I let the AI select one, so at times I can have a youth player being captain, I personally (my opinion) don't really see much in attitude change within each game regardless of who is captain?

I can't say for sure because I haven't done enough experiments on this, but from just experience I think it's tied to team consistency. I think good captains ensure the players and the entire team perform on a more consistent level. I've had a fair amount of youth players coming thru with leadership 20 but for the few games I tested it never worked better than the seasoned leadership 15 guy. More the opposite, but that's probably in part due to the inconsistency these young players themselves are prone to. 

1 hour ago, Cockers2505 said:

Youngest Captains In Football

• Fernando Torres – 19 Years Old. ...
• Aaron Ramsey – 20 Years Old. ...
• Francesco Totti – 21 years old. ...
• Raphael Varane – 21 Years Old. ...
• Neymar – 22 Years Old. ...

I think there's two types of captains here tbh. Captains that team players look up to in terms of skill and in terms of leadership. The best leader isn't necessarily the most skilled, and the most skilled not necessarily the best leader. Maybe that's just my opinion. 

Torres, Robben, Neymar, super skilled but not great leaders, just lack the necessary leadership skills imo to push or organize the team. Totti is a perfect leader but still imo too young at 21yo to be commanding a team of mostly older players. Nothing to do with skills obviously but more with tactical awareness, proven player, having played in big pressure games, finals etc.

When's the right age? Hard to tell.. character, intelligence, experience, having earned the team's respect.. these don't usually come at a young age. 

[Cockers2505]

12 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

I think there's two types of captains here tbh. Captains that team players look up to in terms of skill and in terms of leadership. The best leader isn't necessarily the most skilled, and the most skilled not necessarily the best leader. Maybe that's just my opinion. 

It's a good point, as you said there is those that simply fit into the role, Aaron Ramsey was a good leader at Arsenal I believe, but look what happened to him, they simply let him go, why? I would go with Leadership first, but then also the position is a concern in the modern game, Spurs with Loris as Captain, for me doesn't work, a Central Def or Central Mid is the right position IMO, but eh I'm an Oldham Fan, my memories of good Captains are in the 80/90's 🤣🤣

[Ian]

I usually just go with leadership but do very rarely look at teamwork also. I often look at leadership and try to get a high average number throughout the side as I’m convinced it helps with in-game management with much less late ai comebacks. I think like that with a few other attributes too like aggression, teamwork and even creativity as i often think the game is just looking for the overall team number for a lot of attributes rather than per position. Might be totally off on it but that’s how I play and it makes sense in some ways as it doesn’t always matter where the creativity is in your team as long as it’s there. Same goes for aggression which we tend to think of as tough tackling defenders and midfielders but I like it for wingers and attackers if I can get it so they are keen to go in for 50-50’s with those horrible defenders. Again probably all bollocks but that’s the beauty of this game that we can all have ideas and play the way we want.

[BatiGoal]

1 hour ago, Cockers2505 said:

I would go with Leadership first, but then also the position is a concern in the modern game, Spurs with Loris as Captain, for me doesn't work, a Central Def or Central Mid is the right position IMO

Agree. I very rarely pick GKs or Forwards. Unless there's nothing but young talents in those areas then I'll go with the experienced GK or ST. No response on the Oldham comment 😂 

53 minutes ago, Ian said:

I usually just go with leadership but do very rarely look at teamwork also. I often look at leadership and try to get a high average number throughout the side as I’m convinced it helps with in-game management with much less late ai comebacks. I think like that with a few other attributes too like aggression, teamwork and even creativity as i often think the game is just looking for the overall team number for a lot of attributes rather than per position. Might be totally off on it but that’s how I play and it makes sense in some ways as it doesn’t always matter where the creativity is in your team as long as it’s there. Same goes for aggression which we tend to think of as tough tackling defenders and midfielders but I like it for wingers and attackers if I can get it so they are keen to go in for 50-50’s with those horrible defenders. Again probably all bollocks but that’s the beauty of this game that we can all have ideas and play the way we want.

Good points, Ian. That's one of the reasons I like looking at certain player positions and roles as a combination, as a unit. Center Backs, are they together physically adept enough, is at least one of 'em strong enough in the air. No problems with worldclass players but you and I know, from the VPL 😂, that this becomes important when managing weak squads. Midfielders, are my two CMs together creative and good passers. Is at least one of them good in the air and a good tackler? Striker partners no different, one pacey and the other relying on strength. One creative and the other high in decisions etc. It's one of the reasons I never pick similar players in my squad or bench. Ideally, each player excels at what the other doesn't. It's a different conversation but an interesting one. 

[C21GERMAIN]

9 hours ago, Foxy said:

I follow the lazy route as well and it’s simply my players with the highest leadership that are the captains. The only real thought I put into it is that I make they are at least players that will feature in a lot of games so if I had a young or older player with high leadership but he was unlikely to play very often I would pick someone else even if there leadership was lower.

Same as you

[Dagion]

19 hours ago, Cockers2505 said:

It's a good point, as you said there is those that simply fit into the role, Aaron Ramsey was a good leader at Arsenal I believe, but look what happened to him, they simply let him go, why? I would go with Leadership first, but then also the position is a concern in the modern game, Spurs with Loris as Captain, for me doesn't work, a Central Def or Central Mid is the right position IMO, but eh I'm an Oldham Fan, my memories of good Captains are in the 80/90's 🤣🤣

Usually the route I follow is to look at leadership, then seniority (as in who is long enough at the squad in my opinion) and then position at the field. I never pick a forward since I tend to sub them, usually it's my CD or DM/CM.

About the list with young captains; how about De Ligt at Ajax? He was 19 if I recall correctly?

[Scratch]

I used to put a fair bit of thought into 3 or 4 versions ago, but these days I follow the lazy route as well: Best leadership value, but not too young. That said, I do occasionally appoint youngsters when they seem to typify the team - so in my Celtic saves, someone who is Scottish and has Celtic as their favourite club and wants the club to succeed. 

But I like your thinking on this. I'll start watching out for it a little more. 

[samhardy]

Back when the game was on the PSP there used to be rumours that whatever position the captain you selected was then the players in the same position as him felt the benefits and their performances improved.

So if you chose a DC with high leadership then it would have a positive impact on the rest of your back 4. No idea whether it was true or not but worth mentioning.

[DanM]

1. Leadership. 2. Age, 3. Personality (I.e. prefer Professional). Why wouldn’t you want / prioritize a professional leader? 🙂

Definitely would prioritize a ‘thinks XYZ is an inspired leader’ but is pretty rare for me.

Also won’t select a new signing in their 1st season, unless they are ‘coming home’ like Jordan Henderson to Sunderland aged 32/33, or I’ve signed them to be a ‘transformative leader’ like signing Beckham in an old CM/FM game directly from the States to captain my Everton side. Pretty rare exceptions though.

Edited April 1, 2020 by DanM

[Scratch]

2 hours ago, DanM said:

Why wouldn’t you want / prioritize a professional leader? 🙂

 

Actually, that makes me think about an article I read recently: 

Quote

 

One manager who did whip Viduka into shape was Guus Hiddink, and with the World Cup on the horizon, the No.9 bought into the Socceroos boss’ demands and dropped weight to be ready for the 2006 campaign.

Wilkshire added: “That was where Hiddink got the best out of him, by giving him the captaincy. I thought that was a masterstroke.

“That responsibility got that little bit more about of him. That was the best year he had in green and gold.”

“He wasn’t the most vocal captain but he felt when he had the armband he had to lead by example more so - whereas before he was the naturally gifted No.9 who would do his thing,” he continued.

“Now he felt he had that little bit more responsibility (for) his team, his country, his teammates.

 

I'm assuming that's not in the game, but would interesting if it was - if appointing someone captain could give them a boost and make them more professional, etc.

[BatiGoal]

On 28/03/2020 at 13:04, Dagion said:

About the list with young captains; how about De Ligt at Ajax? He was 19 if I recall correctly?

Too young imo. I understand the entire squad is very young but I'd opt for someone like Ziyech, Tadic, Huntelaar or Blind. Who'd you have picked? 

On 28/03/2020 at 13:50, Scratch said:

so in my Celtic saves, someone who is Scottish and has Celtic as their favourite club and wants the club to succeed. 

Flavor. I do the same when appointing physios. Not that it makes any difference whatsoever of course but I like picking "local" staff so to speak. Assistant manager no different if I can't assemble a group of coaches of same nationality. 

On 28/03/2020 at 18:44, samhardy said:

No idea whether it was true or not but worth mentioning. 

Please find out. Thank you. 

7 hours ago, DanM said:

Definitely would prioritize a ‘thinks XYZ is an inspired leader’ but is pretty rare for me.

Sometimes I pick the guy who's, according to team players, a vital part of the team. I see this message referring to multiple players very often. Such players with high leadership skills probably make good captains as well. 

7 hours ago, DanM said:

Also won’t select a new signing in their 1st season, unless they are ‘coming home’ like Jordan Henderson to Sunderland aged 32/33, or I’ve signed them to be a ‘transformative leader’ like signing Beckham in an old CM/FM game directly from the States to captain my Everton side. Pretty rare exceptions though.

Agree. Definitely. 

[BatiGoal]

4 hours ago, Scratch said:

Actually, that makes me think about an article I read recently: 

Interesting read. To give players that aren't natural leaders the captaincy is hit and miss imo. That added responsibility may get the most out of players like Viduka, where perhaps nothing else works such as team talks, extra training etc etc, and it naturally lifts the entire team as a result. But it can, and has, worked counter productive on others. The added pressure makes certain player underperform. It's a risk imo, perhaps one a manager might take when there's lack of true leaders in a squad. 

It's an entirely different case in the FMM world we're living in. It's all about how the game's programmed. And I think it's very much number-based, meaning players that tick most boxes - whatever boxes the SI developers chose as their definition of a captain - make the best captains. This "real life" idea to captain a player who ticks few to no boxes with the sole intention of lifting his own game and that of the team's doesn't work in FMM I think. The AI are never falling for that "human" aspect of the game, at least not on a consistent level. 

[Dagion]

3 hours ago, BatiGoal said:

Too young imo. I understand the entire squad is very young but I'd opt for someone like Ziyech, Tadic, Huntelaar or Blind. Who'd you have picked? 

Not sure what was de Ligt's first season as captain but my picks would be Schöne, Viergever, Blind, Huntelaar, maybe Veltman.

Ziyech this season would also be fine since I feel like he matured (not sure if that is the correct word for it), Tadic I find too passionate, which sometimes results in being too aggressive for my liking. Especially Schöne looked calm and smart which I prefer, maybe too many "ideale schoonzonen" but that's my preference.

[BatiGoal]

4 hours ago, Dagion said:

Not sure what was de Ligt's first season as captain but my picks would be Schöne, Viergever, Blind, Huntelaar, maybe Veltman.

Schöne, Blind, Huntelaar would make very good captains imo. I'd pick Blind as #1. Experience, intelligent, very much a team player, good age and well-spoken. 

Ziyech perhaps on occasion. Not really in his character to lead teams I think, but he's super skilled and also a player others look up to. 

[broodje kip]

It seems like I missed a great article here. Never thought picking captain would actually effect anything in FMM but I guess it’s some what true. I found using my captain in my Porto save, Kristoffer Ajer makes my team more consistent than other players 

[Scratch]

1 hour ago, broodje kip said:

It seems like I missed a great article here. Never thought picking captain would actually effect anything in FMM but I guess it’s some what true. I found using my captain in my Porto save, Kristoffer Ajer makes my team more consistent than other players 

Interesting... Hadn't noticed that. 

But thins will be changing shortly - from the FMM21 feature announcement:

"This new feature is bolstered by the addition of Club Captains. Now you can assign a captain and vice-captain when you walk into the training ground doors on day one. In FM21 Mobile, like in other iterations of FM, the captain’s role is crucial in maintaining a relationship between you and your players. Get the skipper on your side and the dressing room will be a happier place but upset your captain and your team's morale may suffer. You cannot afford to get things wrong with the team's leader."

Actually that page doesn't have this screenshot (which came from the Twitter stream): 

 

So.. looks like they've reworked it and now it's even more likely that the captain will influence the squad. Or... maybe they are just adding an interface (and a few tweaks) to show what it already does behind the scenes - which would explain Ajer making them more consistent. 

Gonna be fascinating to play with this in a week or so...

 

[broodje kip]

2 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Interesting... Hadn't noticed that. 

But thins will be changing shortly - from the FMM21 feature announcement:

"This new feature is bolstered by the addition of Club Captains. Now you can assign a captain and vice-captain when you walk into the training ground doors on day one. In FM21 Mobile, like in other iterations of FM, the captain’s role is crucial in maintaining a relationship between you and your players. Get the skipper on your side and the dressing room will be a happier place but upset your captain and your team's morale may suffer. You cannot afford to get things wrong with the team's leader."

Actually that page doesn't have this screenshot (which came from the Twitter stream): 

 

So.. looks like they've reworked it and now it's even more likely that the captain will influence the squad. Or... maybe they are just adding an interface (and a few tweaks) to show what it already does behind the scenes - which would explain Ajer making them more consistent. 

Gonna be fascinating to play with this in a week or so...

 

I like the idea of having this. In the pc version there’s a social group and also club hierarchy which shows you players that show their presence in the locker room and those who doesn’t. It’s a good way to avoid us from having 11 players from 11 different countries and also they have languages that they speak for both players and managers

[Scratch]

42 minutes ago, broodje kip said:

I like the idea of having this. In the pc version there’s a social group and also club hierarchy which shows you players that show their presence in the locker room and those who doesn’t. It’s a good way to avoid us from having 11 players from 11 different countries and also they have languages that they speak for both players and managers

Yeah, could make an 11 players from 11 different countries challenge pretty interesting! 🙂