Chat Winter Update

[Lillywhite Dean]

8 hours ago, Woody said:

The fact that your forced to make changes is ridiculous, changes should be made on the manages wishes not because half of your 1st eleven is unfit. How do you get team cohesion when you cant play the same 11 at least a few games in a row. Its not right.

Who cares if players are getting to maximum fitness too quickly that isnt what FMM is about...its about fun and expressing yourself tactically not swapping players out every game.

 

FMM is supposed to a realistic interpretation of football management. It just hasn't been designed to do this on the same scale of the PC version. So player fitness would fall into that category of realism otherwise why have player conditioning at all? If FMM is only supposed to be about expressing yourself tactically, then why not just ditch player conditioning altogether?

[Nucleus]

Player conditioning did exist pre update. It got worse as the season went on as Ashez has explained previously. You knew around what time it was going to happen and you could act accordingly. The only person who didn’t witness this for themselves is you @Lillywhite Dean You seem so intent on making this game the most micro manageable experience ever that it’s screaming “fuck off to full fm”

 

[Lillywhite Dean]

8 hours ago, Ashez said:

More important than tactics, stats, information and set pieces?

As important for sure. What is it about the above that you feel deserves more focus?

[Lillywhite Dean]

3 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Player conditioning did exist pre update. It got worse as the season went on as Ashez has explained previously. You knew around what time it was going to happen and you could act accordingly. The only person who didn’t witness this for themselves is you @Lillywhite Dean You seem so intent on making this game the most micro manageable experience ever that it’s screaming “fuck off to full fm”

 

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Selecting an alternative starting XI is not micro managing.

And believe me, SI would not go to all this trouble just to satisfy my wishes. They obviously felt it needed tweaking.

[Nucleus]

1 minute ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

Selecting an alternative starting XI is not micro managing.

And believe me, SI would not go to all this trouble just to satisfy my wishes. They obviously felt it needed tweaking.

I started a Welsh Prem save last week. I got to the third league game before my entire squad were absolutely shafted by fitness issues. Tell me, how is that fun? That is the most infuriating thing I’ve encountered in a good few years on this game. To make it worse was that I couldn’t be bothered with the game anyway but had an urge one day to start something fresh, something that would bring that love back, but no, SI stick the knife in and twist it because “realism”. Well fuck your realism argument because the game has never been about that. 

Yes it’s a Thursday and I’m a cranky bastard but my point still stands

[Mr Tree]

15 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Player conditioning did exist pre update. It got worse as the season went on as Ashez has explained previously. You knew around what time it was going to happen and you could act accordingly. The only person who didn’t witness this for themselves is you @Lillywhite Dean You seem so intent on making this game the most micro manageable experience ever that it’s screaming “fuck off to full fm”

 

Don't think this is fair at all. It's not black and white, there are shades of grey. But anyone daring to disagree with the majority is being shouted down

i think it's totally unfair and gives the wrong impression for some to say the game is "totally fucked up" and "unplayable". That's just not true. It's a bit different, is all.

otherwise, as Sam says, we're not really doing more than saying the same things again and again.

my "factual evidence" of the day - just got through the four games around the Christmas period in English league two, then away in the FA Cup - my whole squad was above 90% (I think only one player below 95%) for the cup match. What's the problem with that?

[Woody]

28 minutes ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

FMM is supposed to a realistic interpretation of football management. It just hasn't been designed to do this on the same scale of the PC version. So player fitness would fall into that category of realism otherwise why have player conditioning at all? If FMM is only supposed to be about expressing yourself tactically, then why not just ditch player conditioning altogether?

Im all for conditioning thats not the issue. The issue is thats its too bloody harsh. How can most of your 1st 11 mid game be down to around 65-70% and your not closing down all game but the AI is still in upper 80's and you start conceding long range efforts because your players are too frigging knackered to close down quick enough. Thats not right!

Look at how Liverpool play irl....your telling me there conditiong is down so low that they cant cope? Not a chance players dont deteriorate that much, over a season yes but not game to game. Players are super fit these days and  an easily play 3 games in a week but they dont because managers choose to not let them suffer burn out and totate as they wish not because the there fitness is shot! I dont buy it at all. So why should FMM be any different.

Its a debate that will roll on to the next incarnation of the game im sure but at the moment this version sucks abit. 

[Lillywhite Dean]

6 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

I started a Welsh Prem save last week. I got to the third league game before my entire squad were absolutely shafted by fitness issues. Tell me, how is that fun? 

Look, I'll be honest with you. I have started a new career since the latest update and I have not encountered a scenario where three games into the season, my entire squad is too unfit to play a match. I recently posted some feedback in the SI forum where my starting XI was able to play three matches within an eight day period and not suffer from any fatigue or loss of form. This was during the month of February when the playing conditions are supposed to be tougher and players will start "feeling it" more. So my experience is different to yours. I'm guessing that the club you have taken over has facilities and a coaching staff that are average at best and the players in question don't have the best attributes for stamina. But to see your side of the argument, I will start a career in the Welsh Premier to see for myself.

13 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

I started a Welsh fuck your realism argument because the game has never been about that. 

You know I like to think that when I'm debating people who I disagree with, I do so with respect. FMM is about realism. It always has been about realism. Just not on the scale of the PC version

[Mr Tree]

Unintentional but I love "I started a Welsh fuck your realism argument" 

[Nucleus]

Can’t wait for SI to go full “realism” mode to be honest. In the meantime I’m going to go play the sims whilst I wait

[Mr Tree]

12 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Can’t wait for SI to go full “realism” mode to be honest. In the meantime I’m going to go play the sims whilst I wait

Sure. They should leave it so that getting 2000 goals in a career is doable, right?

[Mr Tree]

So loaded up and checked some stats - this is pre-match Saturday after playing Saturday-Tuesday the week before:

I have some other players at the top who are 100. My first choice XI is selected, although Dunkley and Greenfield are interchangeable really. I rested the last three there, with half-decent replacements filling in. I didn't have a midweek match after so I let Taylor play, and I subbed Dunkley for Greenfield during the game.

Also not seeing this issue of them dropping to unacceptable fitness levels during the game. This is with 10 minutes to go, and obviously I've taken my worst three off, but otherwise it's totally comparable with the AI team:

 

And ahead of the next game (a week later):

 

So... I don't understand all the drama? 

[Lillywhite Dean]

53 minutes ago, Woody said:

Im all for conditioning thats not the issue. The issue is thats its too bloody harsh. How can most of your 1st 11 mid game be down to around 65-70% and your not closing down all game but the AI is still in upper 80's and you start conceding long range efforts because your players are too frigging knackered to close down quick enough. Thats not right!

I don't disagree with you there. Fatigue obviously occurs mid-game, and if you're fielding a player who has either just come back from injury, or started the match with a condition rating of 85% and below, or is feeling jaded, then maybe their fitness rating will drop more quickly than other players. But....

1 hour ago, Woody said:

over a season yes but not game to game.

This is more my argument. 

[Woody]

19 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

So loaded up and checked some stats - this is pre-match Saturday after playing Saturday-Tuesday the week before:

I have some other players at the top who are 100. My first choice XI is selected, although Dunkley and Greenfield are interchangeable really. I rested the last three there, with half-decent replacements filling in. I didn't have a midweek match after so I let Taylor play, and I subbed Dunkley for Greenfield during the game.

Also not seeing this issue of them dropping to unacceptable fitness levels during the game. This is with 10 minutes to go, and obviously I've taken my worst three off, but otherwise it's totally comparable with the AI team:

 

And ahead of the next game (a week later):

 

So... I don't understand all the drama? 

Seems everyone is having different outcomes from the update.

[Lillywhite Dean]

26 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

So I don't understand all the drama? 

This mirrors my experience.

I'm in May. The last month of a gruelling season and look how many of my first XI have fitness levels of 90%+. This also comes after a run of four games in 11 days. I have hardly any issues with fitness whatsoever.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Lillywhite Dean

[Mr Tree]

7 minutes ago, Woody said:

Seems everyone is having different outcomes from the update.

Yeah - hopefully Marc or his minions can come along and offer to have a look at your save, cos it doesn't sound like it's doing the same as mine (and clearly that's spoiling the game for you).

To be clear, I'm on the second "hotfix", my phone updated Monday/Tuesday. So this is the third update in recent weeks - the original big winter update, plus two hotfixes.

[Lillywhite Dean]

1 minute ago, Mr Tree said:

To be clear, I'm on the second "hotfix", my phone updated Monday/Tuesday. So this is the third update in recent weeks - the original big winter update, plus two hotfixes.

Same here.

[RPA123456]

Hmm all this is very odd... 

As much as I hated the winter updated that spawned this whole goddamned issue, right now, after the hotfix, I must be honest and say:

I have zero issues with the conditioning. 

I'm on Dean's side here. I haven't really faced any situation where all my players were too tried too play or where my players condition is worse than the A.I's halfway through a game. 

Now I know most of you guys here have been playing this game for a long time and have valuable experience and knowledge but, this whole issue is a non-issue. 

Why the hell are we arguing and debating about this anyway? 

[RPA123456]

2 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

Yeah - hopefully Marc or his minions can come along and offer to have a look at your save, cos it doesn't sound like it's doing the same as mine (and clearly that's spoiling the game for you).

Hmm, is it possible that for some people the hotfix never actually 'fixed' anything? 

[Mr Tree]

7 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

Hmm, is it possible that for some people the hotfix never actually 'fixed' anything? 

Yeah this is what I'm thinking - some phones seem to have different issues, so is there a possibility it's something like that?

Way beyond my understanding, mind

[Ian]

I think it’ll always be difficult for Si when it comes to player conditioning as if you brought 10 or so sports scientists into a room you’d probably get a broad range of opinions on the subject just like how managers have different opionions whereby some are cautious and some believe players are capable of a lot more. 

Personally for me it seems as though my results are pretty much the same on the new update but rotation has become a much bigger part of it which is ok for a while but eventually I feel I’ll need something else to keep me interested. Enter Vibe and the challenges and most of them will have been hit by this which is selfish I know but that’s what makes the game for me as playing without any restrictions is pretty easy and monotonous after about a week or so.

[Lillywhite Dean]

3 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

Yeah this is what I'm thinking - some phones seem to have different issues, so is there a possibility it's something like that?

Way beyond my understanding, mind

I have wondered this. I reported an issue with player match ratings. I would see games where there would be a huge scoreline, such as 5-0 or 7-2, and yet the losing side would have ratings of 7s and 8s for their defenders and goalkeeper. Someone else uploaded a screenshot of player ratings from a match with a similar scoreline and his players had ratings of 3s and 4s.

The only obvious difference between my player ratings and his player ratings was that I am playing on Android and he is playing on iOS.

[FuddledFox]

5 minutes ago, 1759 said:

Enter Vibe and the challenges and most of them will have been hit by this

There will always be challenges that can be created for the game as we are only limited by our own imagination.

[Mr Tree]

5 minutes ago, 1759 said:

I think it’ll always be difficult for Si when it comes to player conditioning as if you brought 10 or so sports scientists into a room you’d probably get a broad range of opinions on the subject just like how managers have different opionions whereby some are cautious and some believe players are capable of a lot more. 

Personally for me it seems as though my results are pretty much the same on the new update but rotation has become a much bigger part of it which is ok for a while but eventually I feel I’ll need something else to keep me interested. Enter Vibe and the challenges and most of them will have been hit by this which is selfish I know but that’s what makes the game for me as playing without any restrictions is pretty easy and monotonous after about a week or so.

Right, but things like a 1kc might actually become challenging again, a Warnock promotion challenge could be a bit more exciting rather than piss-easy as two recent posts have made it, etc.

[RPA123456]

Just now, Mr Tree said:

Right, but things like a 1kc might actually become challenging again, a Warnock promotion challenge could be a bit more exciting rather than piss-easy as two recent posts have made it, etc.

I'll have to agree that the fact we could confidently do 2k challenges was kinda ridiculous...

[samhardy]

Pleased I haven’t updated 😂

[Nucleus]

7 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

I'll have to agree that the fact we could confidently do 2k challenges was kinda ridiculous...

Confidently do 2k challenges 😂 it’s only been done twice ever!

[RPA123456]

9 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Pleased I haven’t updated 😂

Lucky bastard... 

4 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Confidently do 2k challenges 😂 it’s only been done twice ever!

I may have exaggerated a tad bit

[Ashez]

21 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

I'll have to agree that the fact we could confidently do 2k challenges was kinda ridiculous...

I'm actually in this camp however that is 100% a different issue, imo that shows how poor the tactics engine is and the PA system. I'm not being a dick by saying this but let's not forget a number of goal challenges this year also abused bugs like the Super heading glitch, that doesn't take away from the achievement as it's the players job to abuse the game and I've done it plenty of times myself. 

I want the game goal heavy as I think that's fun, 2k is however even a tad high for me. There is a reason why I've never bothered with that concept but every 2k challenge that comes to mind has an element of bug attached to it. The Zaha one back in the day used training stacking, this year we've seen the heading stacking so anyone using conditioning as a stick to beat this with actually think about it. This game is all about various factors working together and you guys are looking in the wrong place.

Alot of my tactics abuse issues with the game as I like exposing them, I found a massive issue with the EME a few years back and I exploited the hell out of it. Hell even last year the EME could be exploited by heavy pressing with numbers where you could just trap the AI in their box and they'd be able to do nothing.

2 hours ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

As important for sure. What is it about the above that you feel deserves more focus?

Seriously? 

The tactics are poor and boring with everything looking the same, the stats and information are limited and gibberish, the lack of set pieces is embarrassing and they'd alll be gameplay elements and not a match three puzzle game. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Ashez

[FuddledFox]

@Woody are you playing it on your Kindle Fire? 

Speaking with @Ashez and it seems the Kindle version is behind on hotfixes compared to iOS and Android.

Maybe the SI lads could shed some light on this @Marc Vaughan @Sebastian Szlenkier @Angelos Antoniades