Off Topic English football

[leedsunited87]

Get a load of that!!! You know what though, I would feel we had cheated if that makes sense, absolutely obsurd if that happens! Bonkers 

[geordiekrispy]

1 hour ago, leedsunited87 said:

Get a load of that!!! You know what though, I would feel we had cheated if that makes sense, absolutely obsurd if that happens! Bonkers 

I'm just waiting on Bruce managing to secure survival due to the "big 6" being docked points and being touted by his mates in the media as doing a good job...

Edited April 20, 2021 by geordiekrispy

[Ashez]

I had tonight's match on, I won't lie I watched most of it but it was also on in the background. I was watching it and thinking what's the bloody point. 

I'd spent all weekend anticipating the fixture as it's a big match for the Top 4 picture. Then the news broke and the match felt like a friendly. It was pointless. We dropped two points at the death and I didn't care and hardly cracked a smile when we scored. 

Football without points having meaning isn't football. Be it promotion, relegation, qualification or titles points are what league football is about, it's the jeopardy, the hope, the will they won't they and that's what football is all about. 

This meaningless super League needs to fuck off. I want to earn CL, if we miss out this year that's on us and deserved, it shouldn't be a guarantee. 

[Rob]

I see Perez is now claiming it’ll save football.

Money and odd goings-on happens at all levels of football. It’s now more obvious as it’s at the top level. For example a non-league club that I hold close to my heart was ran by a new Chairman. Chairman wasn’t well known by anyone. Chairman sells off part of the club’s land to a company. Chairman then leaves. However, the land that was sold, and owned by this external company, surrounds the actual stadium and includes the car park. Therefore the only part the club actually owns was landlocked by land another company owns, who can charge rent, etc. It is madness that this could ever be allowed. 

[geordiekrispy]

4 hours ago, Ashez said:

I had tonight's match on, I won't lie I watched most of it but it was also on in the background. I was watching it and thinking what's the bloody point. 

I'd spent all weekend anticipating the fixture as it's a big match for the Top 4 picture. Then the news broke and the match felt like a friendly. It was pointless. We dropped two points at the death and I didn't care and hardly cracked a smile when we scored. 

Football without points having meaning isn't football. Be it promotion, relegation, qualification or titles points are what league football is about, it's the jeopardy, the hope, the will they won't they and that's what football is all about. 

This meaningless super League needs to fuck off. I want to earn CL, if we miss out this year that's on us and deserved, it shouldn't be a guarantee. 

So... how most Newcastle fans have felt for the last 2ish seasons? Literally the joy of football sucked out of the club by inept management and constant skirting with survival as all that's all that matters. Thrown in the roller coaster of takeover rumours every transfer window.

[Ashez]

17 minutes ago, geordiekrispy said:

So... how most Newcastle fans have felt for the last 2ish seasons? Literally the joy of football sucked out of the club by inept management and constant skirting with survival as all that's all that matters. Thrown in the roller coaster of takeover rumours every transfer window.

At least you have the drama and thrill of relegation/promotion or the hope of pushing on. 

This stupid Super League wouldn't even have that. It would be repeated and guaranteed matches, if you finish 2nd-15th there is absolutely no difference, it's win it or it doesn't matter. 

Solid example I've just heard is its like comparing WWE to actual combat sport. Ones fake entertainment without jeopardy, the other is actually a sport. Ones just entertainment. 

I love the chase for titles or Europe, that's what league football is. Every point won or lost should mean something, screw this guaranteed shit. 

There has been FSGout nonsense for years and I've honestly thought it was spoilt kids demanding beyond our means, I can't say I want the state money, I like the way we do things. However this has crossed the line. This is stealing our identity, our history and our club. 

Apparently two English clubs nerve is wavering this morning. Doubt it's us as we were apparently pushing for this alot, regardless the damage is done. 

[geordiekrispy]

4 minutes ago, Ashez said:

At least you have the drama and thrill of relegation/promotion or the hope of pushing on. 

This stupid Super League wouldn't even have that. It would be repeated and guaranteed matches, if you finish 2nd-15th there is absolutely no difference, it's win it or it doesn't matter. 

Solid example I've just heard is its like comparing WWE to actual combat sport. Ones fake entertainment without jeopardy, the other is actually a sport. Ones just entertainment. 

I love the chase for titles or Europe, that's what league football is. Every point won or lost should mean something, screw this guaranteed shit. 

There has been FSGout nonsense for years and I've honestly thought it was spoilt kids demanding beyond our means, I can't say I want the state money, I like the way we do things. However this has crossed the line. This is stealing our identity, our history and our club. 

Apparently two English clubs nerve is wavering this morning. Doubt it's us as we were apparently pushing for this alot, regardless the damage is done. 

You'd think there'd be some thrill in the push for survival, but it kind of takes any sense of achievement away when you know you're going to be in the same situation next season, and the season after that and on and on.

 

I actually think it's Man City and Chelsea who are wavering, the others are owned (or part owned) by americans so they don't see an issue with not being able to be relegated as in the US sport leagues, it's not a thing. Spurs just want to ride on the backs of bigger clubs I reckon as they know they're not going to win the league or champions league any time soon.

 

The thing about people wanting to watch Barca vs Man Utd or Juve vs Man City is that they only come about once every year or so, if it becomes every other week, then it becomes boring.

If this goes through I see players pushing for transfers so they can compete in the Euros or World Cup, which means you'd either get youngsters, older players or mercenaries playing in the "Super League". But I can't see Fifa an Eufa actually following through with that.

[Ashez]

7 minutes ago, geordiekrispy said:

You'd think there'd be some thrill in the push for survival, but it kind of takes any sense of achievement away when you know you're going to be in the same situation next season, and the season after that and on and on.

 

I actually think it's Man City and Chelsea who are wavering, the others are owned (or part owned) by americans so they don't see an issue with not being able to be relegated as in the US sport leagues, it's not a thing. Spurs just want to ride on the backs of bigger clubs I reckon as they know they're not going to win the league or champions league any time soon.

 

The thing about people wanting to watch Barca vs Man Utd or Juve vs Man City is that they only come about once every year or so, if it becomes every other week, then it becomes boring.

If this goes through I see players pushing for transfers so they can compete in the Euros or World Cup, which means you'd either get youngsters, older players or mercenaries playing in the "Super League". But I can't see Fifa an Eufa actually following through with that.

I get that, obviously it can become a chore. But imagine being as you are with no risk of relegation at all, even if you finish bottom you're guaranteed to stay up. Yet if you do well you achieve nothing. Midtable nothing, top 4 nothing, bottom nothing. So yes I take your point that it becomes tiring and you want more, but this Super League will be that for some club with results basically having zero impact. 

Rumours suggest City and Chelsea were the last to join and they did in fear of missing out. Personally I don't mind LFC being in the conversation, we obviously wouldn't want to be left behind if this took off and was accepted, the issue is they've signed up for it and wrote off basically everything to do this without consent in some ways. 

100% agree, I was excited for LFC Vs Madrid as it was a one off tie that happens once every few years. It's why we don't get excited drawing English teams in the CL, we want fresh and big ties.

Personally I don't see the WC and Euros threat holding up at all. 

[geordiekrispy]

8 minutes ago, Ashez said:

I get that, obviously it can become a chore. But imagine being as you are with no risk of relegation at all, even if you finish bottom you're guaranteed to stay up. Yet if you do well you achieve nothing. Midtable nothing, top 4 nothing, bottom nothing. So yes I take your point that it becomes tiring and you want more, but this Super League will be that for some club with results basically having zero impact. 

Rumours suggest City and Chelsea were the last to join and they did in fear of missing out. Personally I don't mind LFC being in the conversation, we obviously wouldn't want to be left behind if this took off and was accepted, the issue is they've signed up for it and wrote off basically everything to do this without consent in some ways. 

100% agree, I was excited for LFC Vs Madrid as it was a one off tie that happens once every few years. It's why we don't get excited drawing English teams in the CL, we want fresh and big ties.

Personally I don't see the WC and Euros threat holding up at all. 

Yep, I can see FIFA and EUFA backing down, and it all going ahead. With teams either in the ESL or the CL.

I agree that there will be a club that is vastly out-resourced by the others *cough* Spurs *cough* and so they'll have to be resigned to being bottom of the pile constantly. And what players wants to go do that? They'd probably be seen as going for the money, like players who went to China or USA were a few years ago.

I can't imagine the any of the domestic leagues kicking the clubs out either, or taking points off them. So it'll come down to those that currently have the most cash and clout will remain in power, but totally devalue the Champions League/Europa League.

[Ashez]

You can see why the English clubs jumped into this. We have 4 European spots for realistically 8ish clubs, they don't want to risk the income and have gone for the guarantee which means they won't need to spend to qualify either. Arsenal could finish 17th and still qualify for the Super League and take the 300m or whatever it is. Then you have the other teams wanting to benefit from the money the Prem teams have. In that case if top players went to this league City, Madrid and Barca would have unstoppable 40 men squads, they have the best of the best as is and it would only get worse. 

Personally even if we stay in the league as punishment I think all of "us" should be banned from Europe for the rest of this season and next. Hit the owners in the pocket with that lost revenue and a big fine. Give Europe to West Ham, Leeds, Everton and Villa etc. Let them get the cash boost which in turn would likely make future seasons more competitive. 

If this goes ahead and we stay in the league football is done. Giving these clubs that cash every year is utter madness, they get alot as is but the figures here are insane. Especially as FFP is dead, but even with that they'd be able to spend more due to making more. Like I said yesterday it's not even like this money would help us compete with City, Chelsea and United as they're getting the money too. 

If we do get expelled from the league, I have no idea what I'll do. That would break me. That would be some move though as that's some hit the league takes in TV deals as we are the draw. 

[Ashez]

http://chng.it/ghV2QqnnjN

[Rich]

[Ian]

I don’t think it’ll happen and don’t think it was ever going to happen. Just my opinion.

[Ashez]

5 minutes ago, Rich said:

[Meow]

After a day of thinking, I think having a Super League going up in flames is better than the incremental destruction of UEFA slowly reforming the Champions League to what was basically announced  yesterday anyway.

This is a natural conclusion of football fans standing by, as the rules were changed slowly to allow power consolidation of clubs. People correlating "top 4" with "earning a CL spot" like how that was always the natural order. We've allowed bigger leagues at that time to steal places from smaller leagues.

The football dream in recent decades has turned from "European glory" to "maybe nick it once in the league, then make it far in CL to be crushed in the semis anyway."

Edited April 20, 2021 by Meow

[Ian]

I do still remember last year when clubs down at the bottom were either pushing to void the league or look to end it with PPG depending on what would suit themselves. Then when it was clear we’d be finishing the season a bunch of them tried to get relegation scrapped.

[leedsunited87]

4 times PL winners! Bonus 

[billy2shots]

Trying to process everything and I need to break things down into subsections otherwise I'm finding it hard to stay on point.

 

FIFA UEFA PFA 

A huge amount of hot air coming from these bodies and lots of threats. First of all the accusation of greed driven change. Just LOL, how can that accusation come out of the mouths of these money grabbing astablishments is beyond me.

Threats of players not being allowed to play for their country. Umm, no. You can't do that. The decision will be down to each individual country like it is in Rugby etc. The English FA can choose not to select certain players but UEFA or FIFA  can go forth and multiply. 

Banning the whole country from tournaments, yeah right, see how far you get with that. The big money grabbing institutions are rattled and are throwing basless threats around trying to scare individual countries into action.

 

THE PREMIER LEAGUE

Lots of confusion here. Many people seem to think the ESL will be instaed of the Premier League. It won't, it will be instead of the champions league. 

The threat of being expelled from the Premier League. Once again, a fool hardy threat without merit. The Premier League needs the big 6 and so do the other 14 clubs. Try selling the TV and commercial rights without the big 6. It would result in a massive financial drop for the 14 clubs left. 50% of revenue is raised from international deals. Can you imagine South Korea paying the big bucks for Palace v WBA and games of that nature.

So now we are clear the Premier League stays as is. The negative will be the big 6 wouldn't all be clambering for a top 4 finish, instead it would all be about 1st place. Shock horror guys and girls that's how it used to be. The Micky mouse ever expanding 'Champions' League caused all this top 4 nonsense. 4th in your own county but Champions of Europe, do me a favour.

What complicates things is how the ESL and EPL are seen in order of importance. Liverpool fans (not all but in general) would have us believe over the years that winning in Europe was more of an achievement than winning a domestic title so presumably they would go all out ESL and rest players in the league. That's the crime of the ESL, not an empty threat of expulsion from The Premier League itself. Once the title was gone, teams would rest key players making a mockery of those matches. 

 

 

 

The ESL

The European Super League itself.

So we've established this will be instead of the CL but in addition to the domestic league.

What a turd of a competition that would be. A constant 15 teams plus 5 invites each year playing each other each season. A way to keep the big clubs big (rich).

Unfortunately FFP was setup for that very reason. The biggest clubs with an already huge income would always have more cash to spend than any smaller club trying to compete with the handicap of FFP. 

So I'm not anti ESL for that, I'm anti for reasons of fair competition where nobody has the God given right to always play at a certain level.

Irony 

As a City fan I had to put up with flack when we were poo. I then had to put up with flack when we were rich and successful. I actually enjoyed the old days more. The amount of hatred towards us because we spend our own money is crazy. It's not borrowed money from the banks putting the club in debt. It's not financed through multiple companies and Investment vehicles. We make a big loss every year but the owners also spend money in the local community.  The homage to past players is second to none and the woman's team is a very important aspect of the club and is treated and funded accordingly. 

Has anyone see the surrounding areas of Old Trafford recently? Or Liverpool who can't be bothered to support the woman. A new training area for the guys with beach volleyball flol but no female training facilities.

The chickens are coming home to roost for fans of the big 6 now. The view from the ivory tower doesn't seem so appealing anymore. The stench of irony is palpable.

 

 

 

If my team choose to play in the ESL instaed of the CL , as let's face it, that's what the change is. Will I be happy?

No, but they won't be my team anymore...

 

 

 

 

 

[Rich]

So Chelsea have had cold feet and are now looking to pull out of the super league. Hopefully more teams do soon!

[George Traistă]

2 hours ago, billy2shots said:

Trying to process everything and I need to break things down into subsections otherwise I'm finding it hard to stay on point.

 

FIFA UEFA PFA 

A huge amount of hot air coming from these bodies and lots of threats. First of all the accusation of greed driven change. Just LOL, how can that accusation come out of the mouths of these money grabbing astablishments is beyond me.

Threats of players not being allowed to play for their country. Umm, no. You can't do that. The decision will be down to each individual country like it is in Rugby etc. The English FA can choose not to select certain players but UEFA or FIFA  can go forth and multiply. 

Banning the whole country from tournaments, yeah right, see how far you get with that. The big money grabbing institutions are rattled and are throwing basless threats around trying to scare individual countries into action.

 

THE PREMIER LEAGUE

Lots of confusion here. Many people seem to think the ESL will be instaed of the Premier League. It won't, it will be instead of the champions league. 

The threat of being expelled from the Premier League. Once again, a fool hardy threat without merit. The Premier League needs the big 6 and so do the other 14 clubs. Try selling the TV and commercial rights without the big 6. It would result in a massive financial drop for the 14 clubs left. 50% of revenue is raised from international deals. Can you imagine South Korea paying the big bucks for Palace v WBA and games of that nature.

So now we are clear the Premier League stays as is. The negative will be the big 6 wouldn't all be clambering for a top 4 finish, instead it would all be about 1st place. Shock horror guys and girls that's how it used to be. The Micky mouse ever expanding 'Champions' League caused all this top 4 nonsense. 4th in your own county but Champions of Europe, do me a favour.

What complicates things is how the ESL and EPL are seen in order of importance. Liverpool fans (not all but in general) would have us believe over the years that winning in Europe was more of an achievement than winning a domestic title so presumably they would go all out ESL and rest players in the league. That's the crime of the ESL, not an empty threat of expulsion from The Premier League itself. Once the title was gone, teams would rest key players making a mockery of those matches. 

 

 

 

The ESL

The European Super League itself.

So we've established this will be instead of the CL but in addition to the domestic league.

What a turd of a competition that would be. A constant 15 teams plus 5 invites each year playing each other each season. A way to keep the big clubs big (rich).

Unfortunately FFP was setup for that very reason. The biggest clubs with an already huge income would always have more cash to spend than any smaller club trying to compete with the handicap of FFP. 

So I'm not anti ESL for that, I'm anti for reasons of fair competition where nobody has the God given right to always play at a certain level.

Irony 

As a City fan I had to put up with flack when we were poo. I then had to put up with flack when we were rich and successful. I actually enjoyed the old days more. The amount of hatred towards us because we spend our own money is crazy. It's not borrowed money from the banks putting the club in debt. It's not financed through multiple companies and Investment vehicles. We make a big loss every year but the owners also spend money in the local community.  The homage to past players is second to none and the woman's team is a very important aspect of the club and is treated and funded accordingly. 

Has anyone see the surrounding areas of Old Trafford recently? Or Liverpool who can't be bothered to support the woman. A new training area for the guys with beach volleyball flol but no female training facilities.

The chickens are coming home to roost for fans of the big 6 now. The view from the ivory tower doesn't seem so appealing anymore. The stench of irony is palpable.

 

 

 

If my team choose to play in the ESL instaed of the CL , as let's face it, that's what the change is. Will I be happy?

No, but they won't be my team anymore...

ESL is not to replace Champions League

[Ian]

46 minutes ago, Rich said:

So Chelsea have had cold feet and are now looking to pull out of the super league. Hopefully more teams do soon!

I’m hearing it might be over now. If not it won’t be long, all a bit laughable really 😂

[billy2shots]

39 minutes ago, George Traistă said:

ESL is not to replace Champions League

It is for those clubs that go that way. 

[Rob]

Rumours that Woodward has resigned? All sorts going around.

[billy2shots]

5 minutes ago, Rob said:

Rumours that Woodward has resigned? All sorts going around.

Can only jump to conclusions but I presume he was against the owners in deciding to go ahead with ESL. He possibly has asked them to pull out and they have declined???

Let's see who's last to get off the sinking ship.

My guess will be the American owned clubs. 

[Rob]

11 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

Can only jump to conclusions but I presume he was against the owners in deciding to go ahead with ESL. He possibly has asked them to pull out and they have declined???

Let's see who's last to get off the sinking ship.

My guess will be the American owned clubs. 

God knows. What a mess! The Juve chairman has resigned too according to rumours as well. Barca and Atletico also likely to pull out. Mental.

[Ian]

I’m hearing the whole thing is off.

This had been the highlight of the season for me in any case.

[billy2shots]

I think @Ashez alluded to this earlier but it looks like Chelsea and City's arm was twisted at the last minute.

Obviously both still could have said no.

 

 

 

The info comes courtesy of the reliable Matt Law of the Daily Telegraph.

Law suggests that both Chelsea and City were only made aware of the imminent implementation of the ESL last week.

In turn, the Premier League heavyweights were essentially given two options:

1. Provide their backing and join the ten other clubs in pushing forward with the rejuvenation of European football.
2. Oppose the movement, and risk being left behind – from both a sporting and economic perspective.

[Rob]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

I’m hearing the whole thing is off.

This had been the highlight of the season for me in any case.

I second this! Bloody brilliant. 

[Ashez]

It does look like it's all imploding. 

Hendo, Trent, Milner and a few others just posted against it too.

Reports we're now up for sale too. 

[billy2shots]

Souness has just raised a valid point.  Clubs have probably signed contracts to take part in the ESL.

I wonder if the late arm twisting of City and Chelsea meant they haven't signed agreements so they are able to bail early and that's why the other teams are stuck and are being quiet.