Chat Winter Update

[RPA123456]

2 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Unfortunately it appears too many people are too weak to restrain themselves. Like I personally don't use regens for the first 10 odd years, they're easy to avoid. 

Maybe, but it's better to have a choice(no matter how hard it is make and stick to it) then to have no choice at all. 

[Ashez]

3 minutes ago, RPA123456 said:

Maybe, but it's better to have a choice(no matter how hard it is make and stick to it) then to have no choice at all. 

That's my take as well. 

My favourite thing about FMM is we can set the challenge, that freedom is what gives it lasting appeal. We can have brutal challenges like our events showcase, casual challenges with simple aims, massive epic adventures or just going from the bottom to the top. The options are basically endless.....All we need is the game to be solid and fun and to allow said freedom. 

There are so many ways to make the game harder like self imposed rules and so many ways to make it easier like editors/regens/PA lists. That's the beauty of it. 

I'll admit the game does lean towards the easy side but I'm an experienced player of over 10 years who's developed alongside the game, honestly I'd hate to try and get into FMM now as it must be so daunting. Thankfully real life knowledge can take you a decent distance but Vibe provides the rest. 

[Lillywhite Dean]

10 hours ago, Jack said:

If you want higher difficulty in FMM then push for tactical and AI improvements that push boundaries

I agree with this. I would love to see tactical and AI improvements - particularly AI improvements where the AI is better at squad building / management and in-game tactical options.

However,

10 hours ago, Jack said:

as opposed to updates such as conditioning which don’t serve to make the game either more realistic or fun to play.

I disagree here because if you're going to have something like player conditioning then it should be done right otherwise why have it at all. And of course fun is subjective. I think player conditioning makes the game more fun. I like the challenge it presents.

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Ashez said:

That's my take as well. 

My favourite thing about FMM is we can set the challenge, that freedom is what gives it lasting appeal. We can have brutal challenges like our events showcase, casual challenges with simple aims, massive epic adventures or just going from the bottom to the top. The options are basically endless.....All we need is the game to be solid and fun and to allow said freedom. 

There are so many ways to make the game harder like self imposed rules and so many ways to make it easier like editors/regens/PA lists. That's the beauty of it. 

I'll admit the game does lean towards the easy side but I'm an experienced player of over 10 years who's developed alongside the game, honestly I'd hate to try and get into FMM now as it must be so daunting. Thankfully real life knowledge can take you a decent distance but Vibe provides the rest. 

This is exactly what I like about the game. How we have the freedom to play the game how we want. I played the mobile game for the first time last year (well apart from a little play on the PSP game in 2008 which I’m thinking of having a go on later) and I played normally at first with a Liverpool save and then went on to bringing a lower league team to the top which was all good fun. Got bored around this time last year and stopped playing.

This year I wanted to do something different and went on to try some of the challenges here and bingo that’s exactly where it’s at for me. Every save can feel so different it’s almost like I’m playing a different game. 

I know plenty differ and just want a really realistic game in all areas and that’s fine but not want I want at all. I couldn’t think of anything worse than bring a professional football manager so don’t want the game to go too far into realistic territory. It’s squad building and tactics for me every time.

[smoggy90]

48 minutes ago, 1759 said:

This is exactly what I like about the game. How we have the freedom to play the game how we want. I played the mobile game for the first time last year (well apart from a little play on the PSP game in 2008 which I’m thinking of having a go on later) and I played normally at first with a Liverpool save and then went on to bringing a lower league team to the top which was all good fun. Got bored around this time last year and stopped playing.

This year I wanted to do something different and went on to try some of the challenges here and bingo that’s exactly where it’s at for me. Every save can feel so different it’s almost like I’m playing a different game. 

I know plenty differ and just want a really realistic game in all areas and that’s fine but not want I want at all. I couldn’t think of anything worse than bring a professional football manager so don’t want the game to go too far into realistic territory. It’s squad building and tactics for me every time.

Same here mate, before i discovered Vibe i would get bored a few seasons into each save. Once i got hooked on challenges on here I haven't looked back and its made the game appeal to me more than ever. I completed a 30-season game with Celtic last year which i never thought  i would do in a million years.

To be able to build a squad, create a tactic and philosophy that (hopefully) works, and then bang out some challenges is where its at for me.

[Lav50]

I feel that condition tweak only messed up saves in which a player takes charge of lower league club..allow me to elaborate

FMM's condition percentage does not pose as a realistic example of RL conditions

Imagine if media asks Kloop how fit he thinks Salah is currently and he says:"Umm, I think about 86%"

See, numbers are just numbers and the likelihood of injury in FMM is not equivalent to the RL

There are various other aspects that need to be taken into consideration and FMM can not be on that level, nor FM or any other simulation game on the earth for that matter

If you already have a built squad or you just took charge of a club that is already a top dog you most likely won't even care about the tweak, however..if you picked smaller club you are gonna have hard time with your first 11 as most of your players will probably be badly injured or just too weak to start the game off as season goes on

Signing players on free is not a realistic solution, managers do not gather up deadwood just to patch things up shit hits the fence

Someone mentioned earlier how SI should make the game easier for the AI instead of making things harder for us and that guy was absolutely right 

[Ian]

27 minutes ago, Lav50 said:

I feel that condition tweak only messed up saves in which a player takes charge of lower league club..allow me to elaborate

FMM's condition percentage does not pose as a realistic example of RL conditions

Imagine if media asks Kloop how fit he thinks Salah is currently and he says:"Umm, I think about 86%"

See, numbers are just numbers and the likelihood of injury in FMM is not equivalent to the RL

There are various other aspects that need to be taken into consideration and FMM can not be on that level, nor FM or any other simulation game on the earth for that matter

If you already have a built squad or you just took charge of a club that is already a top dog you most likely won't even care about the tweak, however..if you picked smaller club you are gonna have hard time with your first 11 as most of your players will probably be badly injured or just too weak to start the game off as season goes on

Signing players on free is not a realistic solution, managers do not gather up deadwood just to patch things up shit hits the fence

Someone mentioned earlier how SI should make the game easier for the AI instead of making things harder for us and that guy was absolutely right 

I’ve been wondering what it’ll be like in the lower leagues as I’m on a save where I’m now a top team with fit players and the required rotation makes me think a lower league save will just be frustrating but I’m going to give it a go later and see for myself.

[Jack]

4 hours ago, Lillywhite Dean said:

I agree with this. I would love to see tactical and AI improvements - particularly AI improvements where the AI is better at squad building / management and in-game tactical options.

However,

I disagree here because if you're going to have something like player conditioning then it should be done right otherwise why have it at all. And of course fun is subjective. I think player conditioning makes the game more fun. I like the challenge it presents.

Define ‘right’ - I don’t think it’s right that a player with world class Stamina stats, with world class training facilities and world class fitness coaches would struggle at all to be anything other than 100% fitness/conditioning outside of the busy Christmas period. I haven’t updated to the most recent hotfix, so I'm unsure how/if it’s really changed at all, but the first winter update forced you to rotate these players if they played twice a week. As a manager it should be your choice to rotate your team to keep everyone happy and to improve young players. Not feel forced to rotate because conditioning determines half your squad won’t be at their peak. It was completely unrealistic and harmful to the gameplay, so I’m unsure as to how it could be ‘done right’...

AI conditioning on the other hand? Definitely needed improvement which ties in with my point of improving the AI to give us a harder difficulty. Fact is that SI have had to ‘fix’ this issue 2/3 months before the IRL season ends instead of focus their energy and resources into making FMM 20 better for us (with the aforementioned AI improvements). It shouldn’t have come to this.

[Lillywhite Dean]

45 minutes ago, Jack said:

I don’t think it’s right that a player with world class Stamina stats, with world class training facilities and world class fitness coaches would struggle at all to be anything other than 100% fitness/conditioning outside of the busy Christmas period. I haven’t updated to the most recent hotfix, so I'm unsure how/if it’s really changed at all,

Yes I agree and the recent hotfix has addressed this. I would also consider the last couple of months to be tough on some players due to the simple fact that the season is long and a lot of football will have been played.

49 minutes ago, Jack said:

AI conditioning on the other hand? Definitely needed improvement which ties in with my point of improving the AI to give us a harder difficulty. 

I can't argue with this either. I would most certainly like to see an improving AI.

[RPA123456]

Alright! Looks like we're starting to get to an agreement now boys. 

But really, so far this whole issue has been a lose-lose for everyone involved. How about we just drop this whole issue and just pray that FMM 2020 is better?

[Ian]

Little lower league test I’ve just done with the mighty Blyth Spartans on the new hot fix.

Brought in a few free transfers to improve the starting line up and I’m going to try and just play the same line up each game without subs and see what happens with their condition. 

This is before second game of the season. Most players are playable I guess.

This is their condition near end of the game and I suppose the AI are similar and are subbing which will help.

Going into third game of the season and we are starting to look like wounded soldiers.

Condition at end of next game and we are similar to AI but looking pretty ravished after three games and we’ve got a couple of injuries.

Condition going into fourth game and we are a mess after three league games and a break before the fourth.

So after playing the same eleven on the 4th, 7th and 11th of August my team are wrecked. Obviously I would really need to rotate here and probably nearly the whole team every game if we’re honest.

This was the tactic which is a fairly typical set up but isn’t exactly the best for less fit players but I’ve used similar in lower leagues before. Left all instructions at default apart from went narrow and slow which should help condition if anything. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by 1759

[samhardy]

6 minutes ago, 1759 said:

Little lower league test I’ve just done with the mighty Blyth Spartans on the new hot fix.

Brought in a few free transfers to improve the starting line up and I’m going to try and just play the same line up each game without subs and see what happens with their condition. 

This is before second game of the season. Most players are playable I guess.

This is their condition near end of the game and I suppose the AI are similar and are subbing which will help.

Going into third game of the season and we are starting to look like wounded soldiers.

Condition at end of next game and we are similar to AI but looking pretty ravished after three games and we’ve got a couple of injuries.

Condition going into fourth game and we are a mess after three league games and a break before the fourth.

So after playing the same eleven on the 4th, 7th and 11th of August my team are wrecked. Obviously I would really need to rotate here and probably nearly the whole team every game if we’re honest.

This was the tactic which is a fairly typical set up but isn’t exactly the best for less fit players but I’ve used similar in lower leagues before. Left all instructions at default apart from went narrow and slow which should help condition if anything. 

That Ben Purkiss was a top lower league RB back in the PSP days. Played for York I think and every time I started a save lower down I remember signing him.

What's his attributes like now?

[Ian]

4 minutes ago, samhardy said:

That Ben Purkiss was a top lower league RB back in the PSP days. Played for York I think and every time I started a save lower down I remember signing him.

What's his attributes like now?

Here he is, he’s old now but still decent, looks like he may have lost a yard or two of pace mind!

[samhardy]

4 minutes ago, 1759 said:

Here he is, he’s old now but still decent, looks like he may have lost a yard or two of pace mind!

Still a good player for the lower leagues tbf!

Thanks

[LenTheWelsh]

52 minutes ago, 1759 said:

Little lower league test I’ve just done with the mighty Blyth Spartans on the new hot fix.

Brought in a few free transfers to improve the starting line up and I’m going to try and just play the same line up each game without subs and see what happens with their condition. 

This is before second game of the season. Most players are playable I guess.

This is their condition near end of the game and I suppose the AI are similar and are subbing which will help.

Going into third game of the season and we are starting to look like wounded soldiers.

Condition at end of next game and we are similar to AI but looking pretty ravished after three games and we’ve got a couple of injuries.

Condition going into fourth game and we are a mess after three league games and a break before the fourth.

So after playing the same eleven on the 4th, 7th and 11th of August my team are wrecked. Obviously I would really need to rotate here and probably nearly the whole team every game if we’re honest.

This was the tactic which is a fairly typical set up but isn’t exactly the best for less fit players but I’ve used similar in lower leagues before. Left all instructions at default apart from went narrow and slow which should help condition if anything. 

Brilliant post mate. Really highlights the madness of this conditioning problem. How this is more realistic than pre winter update I find mind blowing. Pre winter update I would always rotate as player got tired around the end of February onwards, I’d even rotate my full team on the Saturday games before the mid week knockout rounds of CL games. I’d always play my 2nd team in the carabao (or whatever it’s called) cup, easy FA cup games and in the easy CL group games or when I’ve already qualified for knock out stages. Now we are being forced into rotating on the very first weekend, midweek, weekend fixture list of the season.

Edited March 29, 2019 by LenTheWelsh

[Ashez]

Another argument you could make is this "realism" hinders the consistency "realism". How often does the most consistently played together side do well? Hell managers even develop a bad reputation for tinkering with a starting XI too much. 

[LenTheWelsh]

14 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Another argument you could make is this "realism" hinders the consistency "realism". How often does the most consistently played together side do well? Hell managers even develop a bad reputation for tinkering with a starting XI too much. 

Didn’t the tinkerman famously win the EPL with Leicester using virtually the same players the whole season? 😂

 

and yeah i agree that constantly rotating wouldn’t seem realistic team consistency wise and players would be getting pissed off about it in real life.

[Woody]

40 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Still a good player for the lower leagues tbf!

Thanks

He was at the Vale for abit and now works with the PFA.

[Mr Tree]

I don't think that's a conclusive test @1759- of course you'd make some subs, and that's your fourth game in 11 days, and half the team is still above 90% - so how would you need to rotate "probably nearly the whole team every game"?

Games come thick and fast at the start of the season. It slows down. I'm enjoying my lower league save at the mo.

[Ian]

9 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

I don't think that's a conclusive test @1759- of course you'd make some subs, and that's your fourth game in 11 days, and half the team is still above 90% - so how would you need to rotate "probably nearly the whole team every game"?

Games come thick and fast at the start of the season. It slows down. I'm enjoying my lower league save at the mo.

It’s a conclusive enough test for me and the conclusion is that I won’t be playing a lower league career anytime soon. 

I haven’t played the fourth game yet so it’s three in seven and after a four day break. I may make subs but tbh at that stage of the season I may decide I don’t want to but guess I would have to here as I already picked up a couple of injuries. Games come thick and fast all season in these leagues I know.

I know you are enjoying it and there’s plenty of others that are too and that’s fine it really is as it’s about enjoyment at the end of the day. 

Can’t say I’m too happy with them making such a massive change to the game half way through the games yearly cycle. Surely any updates to the game after launch should just be bug fixes and I don’t think you could call the conditioning before the update a bug.

The annoying thing for me is that I didn’t actually have auto update set and actually downloaded it by choice so I’ve learnt a valuable lesson here.

[Mr Tree]

I make a couple of subs most games, and most teams do in real life.

Most players recover to 95%+ after a week between games. Four days is different, but still, half your squad is 90+, totally usable.

There is a flurry of games at the start of the season and then it slows down to one a week.

As I've mentioned before, people are "used" to being able to use players at 95-100% all the time, so it seems that it's a "problem" for them to fall under that. And I really don't think that "problem" is big as you perceive. They're still usable, and you have to assess the risk of continuing to use them or not.

There are some very fair points being made on the other side of the argument, but I just think we're over-egging the scale of this problem a bit. It's still totally possible to have a very enjoyable lower-league save. But no, not if you plan to play the same XI without any changes during or between games. That doesn't mean that you have to change your whole team every game or excessively micro-manage - it's not one extreme or the other.

[samhardy]

1 hour ago, Woody said:

He was at the Vale for abit and now works with the PFA.

Nice. I think anyone who played a lot of LLM in the PSP versions will recognise the name.

[Ian]

15 minutes ago, Mr Tree said:

I make a couple of subs most games, and most teams do in real life.

Most players recover to 95%+ after a week between games. Four days is different, but still, half your squad is 90+, totally usable.

There is a flurry of games at the start of the season and then it slows down to one a week.

As I've mentioned before, people are "used" to being able to use players at 95-100% all the time, so it seems that it's a "problem" for them to fall under that. And I really don't think that "problem" is big as you perceive. They're still usable, and you have to assess the risk of continuing to use them or not.

There are some very fair points being made on the other side of the argument, but I just think we're over-egging the scale of this problem a bit. It's still totally possible to have a very enjoyable lower-league save. But no, not if you plan to play the same XI without any changes during or between games. That doesn't mean that you have to change your whole team every game or excessively micro-manage - it's not one extreme or the other.

If I have a half decent run at the cups it won’t slow down much at all. I’ve got a player on 83% after a four day rest after only playing three games in a season. I do make subs normally and rotate a fair bit but a lot of it is me giving playing time to squad players rather than forced rotation which is what is happening now. 

Look we aren’t going to agree on this so it’s pointless going on with this tbh. You and many others like the updated conditioning and I find it shite.

5 minutes ago, samhardy said:

Nice. I think anyone who played a lot of LLM in the PSP versions will recognise the name.

I might get the psp out later and see what he’s like on the 08 game.

[Nucleus]

Sweet a conditioning discussion! 😆 still shite is it?

[Ashez]

Just now, Nucleus said:

Sweet a conditioning discussion! 😆 still shite is it?

Tbf I know it's annoying people but I find it fascinating, it's helping me see my own views while understanding others opinions. We also know SIgh are paying attention so who knows what good or evil we could be contributing too, regardless speaking openly about it is the best research they could ever get.....If they listen is a different question mind. 

[Nucleus]

Just now, Ashez said:

Tbf I know it's annoying people but I find it fascinating, it's helping me see my own views while understanding others opinions. We also know SIgh are paying attention so who knows what good or evil we could be contributing too, regardless speaking openly about it is the best research they could ever get.....If they listen is a different question mind. 

I find the views fascinating too, it’s just the same views over and over and over again 😛

[RPA123456]

3 minutes ago, Ashez said:

Tbf I know it's annoying people but I find it fascinating, it's helping me see my own views while understanding others opinions. We also know SIgh are paying attention so who knows what good or evil we could be contributing too, regardless speaking openly about it is the best research they could ever get.....If they listen is a different question mind. 

Agreed. While at the base the arguments basically boil down to new condition bad/good, we are getting a lot of valuable insight on WHY it's good/bad. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by RPA123456

[Mr Tree]

7 minutes ago, 1759 said:

If I have a half decent run at the cups it won’t slow down much at all.

Check my goal a mile, won the conference and the FA Trophy and got to the FAC 3rd round. It really isn't as bad as you think, honestly

[Ian]

3 minutes ago, Nucleus said:

Sweet a conditioning discussion! 😆 still shite is it?

Yeah I know it’s getting a bit tedious and it just seems to be going round in circles now but I will say one thing mind. I’ve really enjoyed this thread!😀

[Rob]

I find people’s concepts of what the game should be more interesting than the conditioning debate. A lot of us are completely opposite, which is kinda fascinating.